wikinew.kde.org to replace kontact.kde.org

[Thorsten Staerk]

Hi Pimsters,

a maintainer's day is hard: After some lucky inspired hours of programming
your favorite application you think to yourself: "And still I have not
updated the documentation". WOOSH, all your good feeling is away. And the
next week you will be in a hotel that only provides www access to the
internet, all other ports blocked. No chance to do an SVN commit to the
KDE web page. And after that week you forgot what you wanted to change.

Do you know this situation?

But there is help: http://wikinew.kde.org allows you to migrate your
documentation to a wiki. Since about one year I maintain ktimetracker's
canonical page in a wiki, and I can tell it is worth the migration. Having
spoken with a lot of people here at Akademy, I would like to tell you:

* wiki.kde.org is seen as obsolete and ugly
* we plan to keep techbase.kde.org for development, organizational,
usability and other topics.
* we plan to add userbase.kde.org for user topics ("what would interest
your mother")
* wiki.kde.org will redirect to userbase.kde.org in the long run
* the new wiki userbase.kde.org is being prepared under the address
wikinew.kde.org
* I recommend that you move your application's user page from
kontact.kde.org to wikinew.kde.org. And that you redirect the old site to
the wiki.

The advantages are obvious:
* if a user criticizes your application's documentation, you can just tell
him "then update it"
* we lower the barrier for new contributors - we get more help
* users contribute and improve the documentation - less work for us
* you can work even if you only have www access
* I will contribute to your page. Promised ;)

So, let's all start our documentation work at http://wikinew.kde.org

Thorsten


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KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/

that sounds really cool,
what an easy way to do documentation, even from places where i don't
have the right apps

hope this becomes big

bcooksley

On 8/14/08, Thorsten Staerk <Thorsten@...> wrote:

> Hi Pimsters,
>
> a maintainer's day is hard: After some lucky inspired hours of programming
> your favorite application you think to yourself: "And still I have not
> updated the documentation". WOOSH, all your good feeling is away. And the
> next week you will be in a hotel that only provides www access to the
> internet, all other ports blocked. No chance to do an SVN commit to the
> KDE web page. And after that week you forgot what you wanted to change.
>
> Do you know this situation?
>
> But there is help: http://wikinew.kde.org allows you to migrate your
> documentation to a wiki. Since about one year I maintain ktimetracker's
> canonical page in a wiki, and I can tell it is worth the migration. Having
> spoken with a lot of people here at Akademy, I would like to tell you:
>
> * wiki.kde.org is seen as obsolete and ugly
> * we plan to keep techbase.kde.org for development, organizational,
> usability and other topics.
> * we plan to add userbase.kde.org for user topics ("what would interest
> your mother")
> * wiki.kde.org will redirect to userbase.kde.org in the long run
> * the new wiki userbase.kde.org is being prepared under the address
> wikinew.kde.org
> * I recommend that you move your application's user page from
> kontact.kde.org to wikinew.kde.org. And that you redirect the old site to
> the wiki.
>
> The advantages are obvious:
> * if a user criticizes your application's documentation, you can just tell
> him "then update it"
> * we lower the barrier for new contributors - we get more help
> * users contribute and improve the documentation - less work for us
> * you can work even if you only have www access
> * I will contribute to your page. Promised ;)
>
> So, let's all start our documentation work at http://wikinew.kde.org
>
> Thorsten
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> KDE PIM mailing list kde-pim@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-pim
> KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/
>

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KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/

[Stephen Kelly-3]

Thorsten Staerk wrote:

> Hi Pimsters,
> * we plan to add userbase.kde.org for user topics ("what would interest
> your mother")
> * wiki.kde.org will redirect to userbase.kde.org in the long run
> * the new wiki userbase.kde.org is being prepared under the address
> wikinew.kde.org

Hi,

I don't think I get it. Currently application user docuementation (how to
use the application and do things with it) is stored in doc/ folders in the
kde modules. Is this wiki intended to replace that docuemntation? I thought
module.kde.org (< pim, utils, games, edu) was different in that it's about
the goals for the module and more information on the applications
(including a link to the user documentation at docs.kde.org).

Do you propose to replace {pim,utils,games,edu}.kde.org with
userbase.kde.org/{pim,utils,games,edu}?

Steve.

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KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/

[Thorsten Staerk]

> Thorsten Staerk wrote:
>
>> Hi Pimsters,
>> * we plan to add userbase.kde.org for user topics ("what would interest
>> your mother")
>> * wiki.kde.org will redirect to userbase.kde.org in the long run
>> * the new wiki userbase.kde.org is being prepared under the address
>> wikinew.kde.org
>
> Hi,
>
> I don't think I get it. Currently application user docuementation (how to
> use the application and do things with it) is stored in doc/ folders in
> the
> kde modules. Is this wiki intended to replace that docuemntation? I
> thought
> module.kde.org (< pim, utils, games, edu) was different in that it's about
> the goals for the module and more information on the applications
> (including a link to the user documentation at docs.kde.org).

You are right, pim.kde.org contains developer info, no user info.
kontact.kde.org contains the user info. The doc/ folder contains what
becomes the khelpcenter-help. Do yourself a favor and read how help
systems should work on
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html.
Basically I copied my user documentation from there. I want users to be
able to contribute to application's user pages and I want the user page to
be sortable. Both is not possible with khelpcenter.

>
> Do you propose to replace {pim,utils,games,edu}.kde.org with
> userbase.kde.org/{pim,utils,games,edu}?

no, I recommend moving pim.kde.org to techbase.kde.org and kontact.kde.org
to (the future) userbase.kde.org.

>
> Steve.

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[Stephen Kelly-3]

Thorsten Staerk wrote:
>>
>> Do you propose to replace {pim,utils,games,edu}.kde.org with
>> userbase.kde.org/{pim,utils,games,edu}?
>
> no, I recommend moving pim.kde.org to techbase.kde.org and kontact.kde.org
> to (the future) userbase.kde.org.
>

Oh, I see. You want to remove pim.kde.org completely. That seems like a
strange thing to do. What about the other <module>.kde.org sites? Will they
be removed and replaced with techbase and userbase?

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KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/

[Thorsten Staerk]

> Thorsten Staerk wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you propose to replace {pim,utils,games,edu}.kde.org with
>>> userbase.kde.org/{pim,utils,games,edu}?
>>
>> no, I recommend moving pim.kde.org to techbase.kde.org and
>> kontact.kde.org
>> to (the future) userbase.kde.org.
>>
>
> Oh, I see. You want to remove pim.kde.org completely. That seems like a
> strange thing to do. What about the other <module>.kde.org sites? Will
> they
> be removed and replaced with techbase and userbase?
>

no I don't want to remove pim.kde.org, I suggest making it editable. Let's
move the pages to the wiki and then link from pim.kde.org to there.

Thorsten

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KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/

[Ingo Klöcker]

On Friday 15 August 2008, Thorsten Staerk wrote:

> > Thorsten Staerk wrote:
> >>> Do you propose to replace {pim,utils,games,edu}.kde.org with
> >>> userbase.kde.org/{pim,utils,games,edu}?
> >>
> >> no, I recommend moving pim.kde.org to techbase.kde.org and
> >> kontact.kde.org
> >> to (the future) userbase.kde.org.
> >
> > Oh, I see. You want to remove pim.kde.org completely. That seems
> > like a strange thing to do. What about the other <module>.kde.org
> > sites? Will they
> > be removed and replaced with techbase and userbase?
>
> no I don't want to remove pim.kde.org, I suggest making it editable.
> Let's move the pages to the wiki and then link from pim.kde.org to
> there.

I think this makes a lot of sense. Some of the information on Akonadi
does already live in techbase so that it can be updated easily.
Developers looking for information on kdepim don't want a shiny web
page, but out-to-date information.

OTOH, I'm not so sure whether moving all of kontact.kde.org to userbase
is a good idea, unless userbase has a really shiny interface. Moving the
documentation to userbase is a good idea though.


Regards,
Ingo



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KDE PIM home page at http://pim.kde.org/

[Cornelius Schumacher]

On Saturday 16 August 2008 16:49:04 Ingo Klöcker wrote:

> On Friday 15 August 2008, Thorsten Staerk wrote:
> >
> > no I don't want to remove pim.kde.org, I suggest making it editable.
> > Let's move the pages to the wiki and then link from pim.kde.org to
> > there.
>
> I think this makes a lot of sense. Some of the information on Akonadi
> does already live in techbase so that it can be updated easily.
> Developers looking for information on kdepim don't want a shiny web
> page, but out-to-date information.

Yes, this probably makes sense.

> OTOH, I'm not so sure whether moving all of kontact.kde.org to userbase
> is a good idea, unless userbase has a really shiny interface. Moving the
> documentation to userbase is a good idea though.

We could keep kontact.kde.org as shiny portal, but let it link to the Wiki for
more detailed information. Would be kind of a media break, but if it improves
the quality of the content we have there, it might be worth it.

--
Cornelius Schumacher <schumacher@...>
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On Saturday 16 August 2008 15:27:19 Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

> On Saturday 16 August 2008 16:49:04 Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > On Friday 15 August 2008, Thorsten Staerk wrote:
> > >
> > > no I don't want to remove pim.kde.org, I suggest making it editable.
> > > Let's move the pages to the wiki and then link from pim.kde.org to
> > > there.
> >
> > I think this makes a lot of sense. Some of the information on Akonadi
> > does already live in techbase so that it can be updated easily.
> > Developers looking for information on kdepim don't want a shiny web
> > page, but out-to-date information.
>
> Yes, this probably makes sense.
>
> > OTOH, I'm not so sure whether moving all of kontact.kde.org to userbase
> > is a good idea, unless userbase has a really shiny interface. Moving the
> > documentation to userbase is a good idea though.
>
> We could keep kontact.kde.org as shiny portal, but let it link to the Wiki for
> more detailed information. Would be kind of a media break, but if it improves
> the quality of the content we have there, it might be worth it.
>

I think we have proved over the years that none of us are inclined to keep
kontact.kde.org nor pim.kde.org up-to-date.

I don't think we can do any worse migrating to wikis.

Techbase is shiny.  So I expect Danimo and Thorsten to make Userbase just as shiny.

Summary: Let's move all the content we can to the wikis and leave
the current kontact.kde.org and pim.kde.org for stuff we need to tightly control
(if there is any such info).  Eventually, we might be able to put everything
on the wikis and then do url redirects.

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On Saturday 16 August 2008 21:58:51 Allen Winter wrote:

> On Saturday 16 August 2008 15:27:19 Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
> > On Saturday 16 August 2008 16:49:04 Ingo Klöcker wrote:
> > > On Friday 15 August 2008, Thorsten Staerk wrote:
> > > > no I don't want to remove pim.kde.org, I suggest making it editable.
> > > > Let's move the pages to the wiki and then link from pim.kde.org to
> > > > there.
> > >
> > > I think this makes a lot of sense. Some of the information on Akonadi
> > > does already live in techbase so that it can be updated easily.
> > > Developers looking for information on kdepim don't want a shiny web
> > > page, but out-to-date information.
> >
> > Yes, this probably makes sense.
> >
> > > OTOH, I'm not so sure whether moving all of kontact.kde.org to userbase
> > > is a good idea, unless userbase has a really shiny interface. Moving
> > > the documentation to userbase is a good idea though.
> >
> > We could keep kontact.kde.org as shiny portal, but let it link to the
> > Wiki for more detailed information. Would be kind of a media break, but
> > if it improves the quality of the content we have there, it might be
> > worth it.
>
> I think we have proved over the years that none of us are inclined to keep
> kontact.kde.org nor pim.kde.org up-to-date.
>
> I don't think we can do any worse migrating to wikis.
>
> Techbase is shiny.  So I expect Danimo and Thorsten to make Userbase just
> as shiny.
>
> Summary: Let's move all the content we can to the wikis and leave
> the current kontact.kde.org and pim.kde.org for stuff we need to tightly
> control (if there is any such info).  Eventually, we might be able to put
> everything on the wikis and then do url redirects.

I fully agree, the current approach didn't work for years, let's try the wiki.

regards
Volker


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