which higher layer protocol is used in Mercedes Axor trucks(on top of CAN with 11 bit identifiers)

[Selçuk Cihan]

Hi, i am able to read and understand the contents of can frames
received from trucks of certain brands(renault for instance), those
are extended frames(29bit identifier, application layer according to
SAE j1939.71). Unfortunately, from Axor, i can only receive standard
can frames(11 bit identifier) and i have no idea about the meaning of
the data. Which protocol does Axor use? I have been digging google and
have read many documents but still Axor is a mystery for me.

Any comment/suggestion on the subject is truely appreciated.
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[Funny N.]

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Is it a J1939 device? Many CAN Kingdom or DeviceNet devices use the 11 bit CAN frames.
SAE J1939 didn't define many PGNs on the 11 bit frame, but you can still use it for proprietary protocols, I knew VOLVO trucks/engines have many non-standard message with 11 bits or 29 bits ID on its J1939 network. As long as it goes with what has been defined/ruled by SAE, it is still "legall" to be used. Although it is not recommend to put heavy traffic on proprietary messages in case it jams regular traffic.

 

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Selçuk Cihan <selcukcihan@...>
To: canlist@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 5:09:58 AM
Subject: [CANLIST] which higher layer protocol is used in Mercedes Axor trucks(on top of CAN with 11 bit identifiers)

Hi, i am able to read and understand the contents of can frames
received from trucks of certain brands(renault for instance), those
are extended frames(29bit identifier, application layer according to
SAE j1939.71). Unfortunately, from Axor, i can only receive standard
can frames(11 bit identifier) and i have no idea about the meaning of
the data. Which protocol does Axor use? I have been digging google and
have read many documents but still Axor is a mystery for me.

Any comment/suggestion on the subject is truely appreciated.
--
Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
Report any problems to <canlist-owner@...>

[Selçuk Cihan]

> Is it a J1939 device? Many CAN Kingdom or DeviceNet devices use the 11 bit
> CAN frames.

Thanks for the response,
My device can receive both can 2.0a and can 2.0b frames. The problem
is that, axor gives me only 2.0a frames (standard frames, with 11 bit
ids), and i can not figure out the meaning of data associated with
that id. SAE j1939 mentions a little about the standard frames, it
says that standard and extended frames can coexist, etc; but the
semantics of the data part is not explained. I have verified that
Mercedes Axor/Actros trucks use standard frames on the can bus, but i
need to know the protocol that sits on top of the lower layer(in my
case can 2.0a)


For instance, following two lines are real data frames i have received from Axor
id(11bits)           data(8 bytes)
0x6A0      33 FF FA FF FF 51 34 08
0x22D      00 3C A8 61 A8 61 00 00
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[Klüser, Jürgen]

Hello Cihan,
this is a proprietary protocol. You will not get information about it, except you have a contract with Daimler.
For more information have a search in the archive of the CANLIST.
Best Regards / Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Juergen Klueser
-------------------------------------------------
Global Product Line Manager PON
Open Networking Tools and Components
Vector Informatik GmbH
Ingersheimer Strasse 24
D-70499 Stuttgart, Germany
Phone: [phone]
Fax:   [phone]
Email: juergen.klueser@...
Internet: http://www.vector-informatik.de
-------------------------------------------------
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: canlist-owner@...
> [mailto:canlist-owner@...] On
> Behalf Of Selçuk Cihan
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:04 PM
> To: canlist@...
> Subject: Re: [CANLIST] which higher layer protocol is used in
> Mercedes Axor trucks(on top of CAN with 11 bit identifiers)
>
> > Is it a J1939 device? Many CAN Kingdom or DeviceNet devices
> use the 11 bit
> > CAN frames.
>
> Thanks for the response,
> My device can receive both can 2.0a and can 2.0b frames. The problem
> is that, axor gives me only 2.0a frames (standard frames, with 11 bit
> ids), and i can not figure out the meaning of data associated with
> that id. SAE j1939 mentions a little about the standard frames, it
> says that standard and extended frames can coexist, etc; but the
> semantics of the data part is not explained. I have verified that
> Mercedes Axor/Actros trucks use standard frames on the can bus, but i
> need to know the protocol that sits on top of the lower layer(in my
> case can 2.0a)
>
>
> For instance, following two lines are real data frames i have
> received from Axor
> id(11bits)           data(8 bytes)
> 0x6A0      33 FF FA FF FF 51 34 08
> 0x22D      00 3C A8 61 A8 61 00 00
> --
> Archives and useful links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CANbus
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at www.vector-informatik.com/canlist/
> Report any problems to <canlist-owner@...>
>

--
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[Funny N.]

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Greeting, Selçuk,
You better check with ISO standards such as ISO11898 etc. There are some European truck/diesel engines using ISO standards instead of SAE J1939 standards. And most of the case, they use the 11 bit CAN ID.
Also some of the US auto maker seems like to use the 11 bit CAN ID for the OBD II part of communication.

 

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Selçuk Cihan <selcukcihan@...>
To: canlist@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:03:51 AM
Subject: Re: [CANLIST] which higher layer protocol is used in Mercedes Axor trucks(on top of CAN with 11 bit identifiers)

> Is it a J1939 device? Many CAN Kingdom or DeviceNet devices use the 11 bit
> CAN frames.

Thanks for the response,
My device can receive both can 2.0a and can 2.0b frames. The problem
is that, axor gives me only 2.0a frames (standard frames, with 11 bit
ids), and i can not figure out the meaning of data associated with
that id. SAE j1939 mentions a little about the standard frames, it
says that standard and extended frames can coexist, etc; but the
semantics of the data part is not explained. I have verified that
Mercedes Axor/Actros trucks use standard frames on the can bus, but i
need to know the protocol that sits on top of the lower layer(in my
case can 2.0a)


For instance, following two lines are real data frames i have received from Axor
id(11bits)          data(8 bytes)
0x6A0      33 FF FA FF FF 51 34 08
0x22D      00 3C A8 61 A8 61 00 00
--
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[Selçuk Cihan]

> Hello Cihan,
> this is a proprietary protocol. You will not get information about it, except you have a contract with Daimler.
> For more information have a search in the archive of the CANLIST.

Hi, thanks a lot NYPD and Jürgen. At least now i know where i stand.
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