what sort of lathe sufficient for adapter plate and making keyway

[paul holmes]

Hello!  I just got done making my first adapter plate and coupler combo.  It works very well given the limited tools I had (Lee Hard had some awesome suggestions).  It was like giving birth to a Cactus, however.  What would be a good recommended basic lathe for future adapter plates and something that could make a keyway on a motor shaft?

[David Dymaxion]

That sounds awesome, can you post some pics online?

Why not use a mill instead of a lathe? With a mill you can work on 1/2 of a large part, and flip it over to work on the other 1/2. With a lathe the whole thing has to spin, so generally you can't do as large a part.

Are you planning to just make one more adapter for yourself, or hoping to go into business making a bunch?

I have a $600 Harbor Freight Lathe/Mill/Drill combo, plus a Harbor Freight rotary table. It has been working OK, but my friend's larger machine certainly cuts faster with less vibration.



----- Original Message ----
From: paul holmes <barbiesbla@...>
To: ev@...
Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:23:20 PM
Subject: [EVDL] what sort of lathe sufficient for adapter plate and making keyway


Hello!  I just got done making my first adapter plate and coupler combo.  It
works very well given the limited tools I had (Lee Hard had some awesome
suggestions).  It was like giving birth to a Cactus, however.  What would be
a good recommended basic lathe for future adapter plates and something that
could make a keyway on a motor shaft?
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[paul holmes]

Here's the link to the video that my wife put together:

Adapter Plate and Coupler Video

I want to make a bunch and sell them to make just enough profit so that I don't have to substitute as much.  It's nice to have a break from being cussed out by students.  I also love staying home and spending time with my new baby boy!  I think I'll stick with simple, low power types for now.  My whole conversion is coming in under like $1600.  I've got some really good deals, and the adapter plate and coupler was only $80 with doing it myself.

P.S.: I don't know the difference between a mill and a lathe.  I'm new to this. :)

-Paul

[Rod Fitzsimmons Frey]

Hey, Paul.  I hope you were serious in your mill/lathe question.  Otherwise
my dry-humor-antennae are in need of servicing.

A mill spins the cutting tool and moves the part into it; a lathe spins the
workpiece and moves the tool into it.

Usually a mill has an X-Y table that you fasten the part to.  You can then
move it around using handles.  This is great for locating and drilling
holes, cutting grooves, etc.  A lathe is best suited for round parts.  You
can make round parts in a mill (inefficiently) and you can mill on the lathe
(inefficiently).  For machining adapter plates, etc.  the main constraint is
workpiece size, so a mill is the best bet as David said.

You could start to play for around $800-$1000; you could computerize those
hand cranks and automate your adapter plate manufacturing for another $1000.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
> Behalf Of paul holmes
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:16 AM
> To: ev@...
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] what sort of lathe sufficient for adapter plate and
> making keyway
>
>
> Here's the link to the video that my wife put together:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI0292l71o Adapter Plate and Coupler
> Video
>
> I want to make a bunch and sell them to make just enough profit so that
> I
> don't have to substitute as much.  It's nice to have a break from being
> cussed out by students.  I also love staying home and spending time
> with my
> new baby boy!  I think I'll stick with simple, low power types for now.
> My
> whole conversion is coming in under like $1600.  I've got some really
> good
> deals, and the adapter plate and coupler was only $80 with doing it
> myself.
>
> P.S.: I don't know the difference between a mill and a lathe.  I'm new
> to
> this. :)
>
> -Paul
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/what-sort-of-lathe-
> sufficient-for-adapter-plate-and-making-keyway-tp18272574p18273491.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[Jeremy Green-4]

A lathe spins the part that you are making and the too doesn't rotate.  
A mill spins tool and not the part. On a lathe the tool is moved in  
and out and left to right with handwheels. On a lathe the part is  
moved with handwheels (left and right and in and out) and the tool  
moves up and down.

A lathe is good for making round parts like a coupler and a mill is  
more appropriate for making things like adapter plates.
For cuttig keyways in a shaft a mill is probably the right tool. For  
cutting a keyway in a coupler you would want an arbor press and a  
keyway broach.


           -Jeremy

On Jul 4, 2008, at 12:16 AM, paul holmes <barbiesbla@...> wrote:

>
> Here's the link to the video that my wife put together:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI0292l71o Adapter Plate and Coupler  
> Video
>
> I want to make a bunch and sell them to make just enough profit so  
> that I
> don't have to substitute as much.  It's nice to have a break from  
> being
> cussed out by students.  I also love staying home and spending time  
> with my
> new baby boy!  I think I'll stick with simple, low power types for  
> now.  My
> whole conversion is coming in under like $1600.  I've got some  
> really good
> deals, and the adapter plate and coupler was only $80 with doing it  
> myself.
>
> P.S.: I don't know the difference between a mill and a lathe.  I'm  
> new to
> this. :)
>
> -Paul
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/what-sort-of-lathe-sufficient-for-adapter-plate-and-making-keyway-tp18272574p18273491.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive  
> at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[paul holmes]

I know it's sad, but I was serious.  Your dry humor antennae are functioning perfectly!

Rod Fitzsimmons Frey wrote:

Hey, Paul.  I hope you were serious in your mill/lathe question.  Otherwise
my dry-humor-antennae are in need of servicing.

[Jeff Shanab]

> That sounds awesome, can you post some pics online?
>
> Why not use a mill instead of a lathe? With a mill you can work on 1/2 of a large part, and flip it over to work on the other 1/2. With a lathe the whole thing has to spin, so generally you can't do as large a part.
I went to the local counter top cutters in town and had the basic shape cut out with a water jet. Then put it on the mill kissed the hole (mine has a 12" dia hole) called that zero then walked off the bolt pattern and put in the dowel holes.

For making a keyway in a motor shaft? use a keyway cutter in the mill, but if you are talking about the keyway you need in the adapter, I bought a broach kit, you just push them through with a press adding shims until the depth is what you want.

I was, at the time of my design, thinking of making lots of adapters. The bell required a lathe, I used a clausing 10x45 engine lathe.The concept was to have plates waterjet and thrown on a mill and finished eventually making a jig and using a CNC at a local shop. The bells would change in only 1 dimension and the adapters all went to SBC. The idea here was to turn around an order in under a week. Once I got it all quoted, i didn't think people would be willing to pay enough for them and I got interested in dual motors, so I kinda dropped the concept.
> Are you planning to just make one more adapter for yourself, or hoping to go into business making a bunch?
>
> I have a $600 Harbor Freight Lathe/Mill/Drill combo, plus a Harbor Freight rotary table. It has been working OK, but my friend's larger machine certainly cuts faster with less vibration.
>

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[David Dymaxion]

Thanks for posting the video. Kudos to you for getting something to work quickly, and without fancy machining or welding. I'd suggest reading up on machining before buying something.

Just a couple of worries:

The torque of the motor will tend to rock your aluminum cylinders side to side. They are much longer than they are wide. Will they be strong enough, or will the side to side forces eventually break something? At a minimum I think you should inspect for that regularly, and better yet design blocks or a spacer ring for more strength.

The gaps between the posts could let water splash or road grime into your clutch area.

Generally more of concern to racers, but the posts would also let pass pieces of an exploded clutch.

I'm chipping away on a Porsche adapter, very similar to VW, you can see some stuff here:

http://www.geocities.com/david_dymaxion/Adaptor/adaptor.html
http://www.geocities.com/david_dymaxion/Adaptor/adaptor.html



----- Original Message ----
From: paul holmes <barbiesbla@...>
To: ev@...
Sent: Friday, July 4, 2008 12:16:15 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] what sort of lathe sufficient for adapter plate and making keyway


Here's the link to the video that my wife put together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BI0292l71o Adapter Plate and Coupler Video

I want to make a bunch and sell them to make just enough profit so that I
don't have to substitute as much.  It's nice to have a break from being
cussed out by students.  I also love staying home and spending time with my
new baby boy!  I think I'll stick with simple, low power types for now.  My
whole conversion is coming in under like $1600.  I've got some really good
deals, and the adapter plate and coupler was only $80 with doing it myself.

P.S.: I don't know the difference between a mill and a lathe.  I'm new to
this. :)

-Paul
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/what-sort-of-lathe-sufficient-for-adapter-plate-and-making-keyway-tp18272574p18273491.html
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[paul holmes]

I really wanted to do your idea of a ring of 0.25" steel like you did, but I didn't think to make a ring roller.  That was awesome!  Also, I don't have a good way to make cuts in steel at this time, other than with a hand held grinder.  I searched for a REALLY BIG steel pipe to cut short, but to no avail.  

As far as torque goes, this car is going to be basically an NEV that goes 0-35 with very slow acceleration.  The torque I hope will be small enough so as not to mess up the spacers.  If not, I may put in steel spacers.  Also, I'm going to seal the motor compartment from the elements below.

Next time, I would like to do a spacer ring.  Thanks for posting your progress!  I'm really impressed!  How do you cut the steel so precisely?

[David Dymaxion]

Thanks for the kudos. Several thoughts on cutting steel:

Try to buy the steel in as close to finish size as you can -- my spacer was ring rolled from 1/4 x 3 inch flat bar. I will still need to machine it to the final thickness. Also, the steel store can do coarse cuts for you.

I put a steel cutting "blade" in a chop saw, works great for smaller cuts.

For the smaller precise motor centering hole, I cut that by turning the piece on a rotary table and cutting with a mill.

I have also used a plasma cutter, but it makes the metal hard to machine. It is good for cuts that do not need to be precise or later machined.

I sometimes use a hand held die grinder for small cuts.

I would like to get a band saw, but have been getting by OK with my alternate, at-hand methods.

On the strength of your posts: Don't forget, it is not just the gradual torque of the motor. The motor can click on with enough suddenness the posts get a hammer-like blow. You should inspect them regularly.

Last random thought: I have thought an old truck brake drum could make a good spacer. I didn't go that route for these reasons:

        * My custom size clears both the motor bolts and the tranny bolts -- a bigger spacer would need access holes cut, and a smaller spacer wouldn't be as strong
        * The custom size made things as light and strong as possible
        * The spacer does double duty as a racing scatter shield in case the flywheel explodes (needs to be 1/4 inch by Salt Flats racing rules)

Thanks again for your video, it is great to see you jumping in and getting things done!


----- Original Message ----
From: paul holmes <barbiesbla@...>
To: ev@...
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 9:41:13 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] what sort of lathe sufficient for adapter plate and making keyway


I really wanted to do your idea of a ring of 0.25" steel like you did, but I didn't think to make a ring roller.  That was awesome!  Also, I don't have a good way to make cuts in steel at this time, other than with a hand held grinder.  I searched for a REALLY BIG steel pipe to cut short, but to no avail.  

As far as torque goes, this car is going to be basically an NEV that goes 0-35 with very slow acceleration.  The torque I hope will be small enough so as not to mess up the spacers.  If not, I may put in steel spacers.  Also, I'm going to seal the motor compartment from the elements below.

Next time, I would like to do a spacer ring.  Thanks for posting your
progress!  I'm really impressed!  How do you cut the steel so precisely?


     
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[paul holmes]

brake drum!!!  Why didn't I think of that?  That's a beautiful idea!  I hope you don't mind if I shamelessly steal your suggestion should things go south with the aluminum spacers?

[David Dymaxion]

Feel free to use, please keep us all updated.



----- Original Message ----
From: paul holmes <barbiesbla@...>
To: ev@...
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 5:58:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] what sort of lathe sufficient for adapter plate and making keyway


brake drum!!!  Why didn't I think of that?  That's a beautiful idea!  I hope
you don't mind if I shamelessly steal your suggestion should things go south
with the aluminum spacers?

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/what-sort-of-lathe-sufficient-for-adapter-plate-and-making-keyway-tp18272574p18297626.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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