wavpack ???

[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

Has any thought been given to adding WavPack <http://www.wavpack.com/>
support to SoX?  I'd really like to be able to store my files in
WavPack format and convert them to something else without needing
to first go through the WAV format.  I like WavPack because it's
lossless and works on 32-bit files.

Thanks.....


--
Kevin



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[Dat Head]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc@...> wrote:
>
>  Has any thought been given to adding WavPack <http://www.wavpack.com/>
>  support to SoX?  I'd really like to be able to store my files in
>  WavPack format and convert them to something else without needing
>  to first go through the WAV format.  I like WavPack because it's
>  lossless and works on 32-bit files.
>

i've never heard of wavpack but was an interesting read of their
webpage, but it appears flac already does all of this and sox does
support flac.

anybody know some pros/cons to wavpack vs flac?   i am a very
satisfied flac user - converting my entire archives over to it (over
1.5TB already)

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[Michael Chapman-4]

On Thursday 20 March 2008 8:31 pm, you wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc@...>
wrote:

> >  Has any thought been given to adding WavPack <http://www.wavpack.com/>
> >  support to SoX?  I'd really like to be able to store my files in
> >  WavPack format and convert them to something else without needing
> >  to first go through the WAV format.  I like WavPack because it's
> >  lossless and works on 32-bit files.
>
> i've never heard of wavpack but was an interesting read of their
> webpage, but it appears flac already does all of this and sox does
> support flac.
>
> anybody know some pros/cons to wavpack vs flac?   i am a very
> satisfied flac user - converting my entire archives over to it (over
> 1.5TB already)

Ah, what is 'an audio format' and what is 'a container format' and which
is Wavpack and which is Flac ....
I'll cut the philosophy and get to the differences, once I have just asked
whether SoX should deal with 'containers' (the question is rhetorical as I
presume it does Ogg ( as in Ogg-Vorbis: Ogg the container, Vorbis the
audio format)). (Should Sox 'do' Matroska?)

Flac is more widely supported (but older technologies generally are).
Flac (one would need to check this, but there are/were figures on the
        Flac website) gives better compression.
Flac is open source, Wav is a proprietary standard (if that makes
        any difference).
Flac has a metadata system.

Wav (and hence Wavpack) allows floating point (Flac is integer only).
Wav allows virtually ulimlited channels (?2**16?) (Flac is limited to
        eight --this really is a major problem for multi-channel
        work. It would be for domestic, if the dreaded 10.2 ever
        flies.)
Wav has no nice metadata system. The information in the headers
        is very, very limited. Wavpack has a metadata system
        (good for sticking album covers in) but no metadata
        sticks with the unpacked files. (Not sure how serious that
        is, especially if unpacking is always on the fly.)

There is a serious file size problem (?2GB) with Wav. Would have to check
for Flac. Maybe Wavpack allows seamless joining of multiple files (no "two
second gap between the 'tracks';-)>., one would have to check.

Wav (?)muxes multiple channels. I do not think Flac does. That (and
whether or not metadata is stuck at the beginning of the end) is very
important for 'streaming' audio.

Could one could stick multiple Flacs in a container (?Matroska) and
circumvent the channel limit?

The above are 'off the top of my head'. As the basis of a serious
discussion they would need references (and if anyone wants to make a
decision they should get some), but I throw them to the collective wisdom
of the list for correction.

In my opinion, it is a close call between the two ....

Michael

( 2GB at 10.2 is 166MB/channel, or just over a quarter of an hour at 44.1/16.
It's not an awful lot more for 5.1 at 48/24, let alone 48/32. Certainly
not an hour!)



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[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

On 20 March 2008 at 16:31, "Dat Head" <dathead2@...> wrote:

> i've never heard of wavpack but was an interesting read of their
> webpage, but it appears flac already does all of this and sox does
> support flac.
>
> anybody know some pros/cons to wavpack vs flac?   i am a very
> satisfied flac user - converting my entire archives over to it (over
> 1.5TB already)

WavPack supports 32-bit floating point WAV file compression, which is
the native format of Ardour.  FLAC doesn't support 32-bit floating
point WAV file compression.

The history of SoX is that it supports conversion between just about
anything and anything else.  Leaving out X because it already
supports Y seems counter to this.

Cheers....
 
--
Kevin



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[Chris Bagwell]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 08:12:24AM -0700, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:

>
> On 20 March 2008 at 16:31, "Dat Head" <dathead2@...> wrote:
>
> > i've never heard of wavpack but was an interesting read of their
> > webpage, but it appears flac already does all of this and sox does
> > support flac.
> >
> > anybody know some pros/cons to wavpack vs flac?   i am a very
> > satisfied flac user - converting my entire archives over to it (over
> > 1.5TB already)
>
> WavPack supports 32-bit floating point WAV file compression, which is
> the native format of Ardour.  FLAC doesn't support 32-bit floating
> point WAV file compression.
>
> The history of SoX is that it supports conversion between just about
> anything and anything else.  Leaving out X because it already
> supports Y seems counter to this.
>
> Cheers....

And a small tidbit, flac support showed up in SoX finally about
the time that /usr/lib/*FLAC* started showing something on Linux
from a default install.

I didn't check what is depending on it but I notice that
/usr/lib/*wavpak* is turning up on my system as well and I
didn't ask for it specifically.

Thats some pretty good indication of its popularity.  Never used
the format myself.

Chris

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[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

On 21 March 2008 at 11:36, Chris Bagwell <chris@...> wrote:

> And a small tidbit, flac support showed up in SoX finally about
> the time that /usr/lib/*FLAC* started showing something on Linux
> from a default install.
>
> I didn't check what is depending on it but I notice that
> /usr/lib/*wavpak* is turning up on my system as well and I
> didn't ask for it specifically.
>
> Thats some pretty good indication of its popularity.  Never used
> the format myself.

My understanding is that libsndfile will be supporting wavpack
sometime, and at that point ardour will be supporting wavpack.
At least, that's the rumor.

Cheers....

--
Kevin



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[robs-5]

An initial cut of wavpack is now in CVS SoX.
Enjoy...

--- Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc@...> wrote:

>
> On 21 March 2008 at 11:36, Chris Bagwell <chris@...> wrote:
>
> > And a small tidbit, flac support showed up in SoX finally about
> > the time that /usr/lib/*FLAC* started showing something on Linux
> > from a default install.
> >
> > I didn't check what is depending on it but I notice that
> > /usr/lib/*wavpak* is turning up on my system as well and I
> > didn't ask for it specifically.
> >
> > Thats some pretty good indication of its popularity.  Never used
> > the format myself.
>
> My understanding is that libsndfile will be supporting wavpack
> sometime, and at that point ardour will be supporting wavpack.
> At least, that's the rumor.
>
> Cheers....
>
> --
> Kevin
>
>
>
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[Chris Bagwell]

robs wrote:
> An initial cut of wavpack is now in CVS SoX.
> Enjoy...
>
>  
Anyone else keeping track of the < 1 day turn around time Rob's got
lately on feature requests? Crazy!

Chris

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[Trevor Astrope]

Yeah, Rob rocks!

Thanks to Rob and everyone else for all the great features in the past
year or so.


On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, Chris Bagwell wrote:

> robs wrote:
>> An initial cut of wavpack is now in CVS SoX.
>> Enjoy...
>>
>>
> Anyone else keeping track of the < 1 day turn around time Rob's got
> lately on feature requests? Crazy!
>
> Chris
>
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[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

On 21 March 2008 at 20:02, Chris Bagwell <chris@...> wrote:
 
> Anyone else keeping track of the < 1 day turn around time Rob's got
> lately on feature requests? Crazy!

Yes, me, the requester.  It is just nuts.  Closed source
software, "take that!"  The only other time I've had something
like this happen, I guess there were two, was when CodeWeavers
fixed a problem I was having with CrossOver Office, and when
Rosegarden accepted my MIDI mapping file for my Alesis QS7-8
keyboard the day before a major release.  I'm sure folks here
know that Rosegarden is an open source MIDI and audio sequencer.

You might not know that CodeWeavers is a service organization
selling cleaned up Wine, and giving their improvements back to
the Wine development team.  I have their $48US per year service
contract that gets me as many downloads and upgrades as I want
during the year.  I sound like I'm plugging them, but I'm just a
stunned (in a good way) customer of theirs.

But that Rob, he still wins.

:^)

--
Kevin



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[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

On 21 March 2008 at 23:21, robs <aquegg@...> wrote:

> An initial cut of wavpack is now in CVS SoX.
> Enjoy...

Alrighty, I did my first ever CVS checkout of SoX.  Following the
INSTALL steps, I ran 'autoreconf -i --verbose', which failed.  I
don't have a configure.in script, and I think I'm stuck.  The
exit status from that was a failure, the error message I got was:



autoreconf-2.5x: Entering directory `.'
autoreconf-2.5x: configure.ac: not using Gettext
autoreconf-2.5x: running: aclocal -I m4
/usr/share/aclocal/libfame.m4:6: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_LIBF
AME
  run info '(automake1.8)Extending aclocal'
  or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
autoreconf-2.5x: configure.ac: tracing
autoreconf-2.5x: configure.ac: subdirectory libltdl to autoreconf
autoreconf-2.5x: Entering directory `libltdl'
autoreconf-2.5x: `configure.ac' or `configure.in' is required



Hmm, it looks like the libltdl didn't get populated by the CVS
checkout, and so that's missing the configure.ac file.  I did my
checkout in a clean directory following the instructions here:
http://sox.sourceforge.net/ 

So, I grabbed the 14.0.1 tarball, unpacked it, and did the CVS
checkout over the top of that.  I got the system to configure now.
I hope that's the right way around the problem.  What it?

Thanks....

 
--
Kevin



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[robs-5]

--- Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc@...> wrote:

>
> On 21 March 2008 at 20:02, Chris Bagwell <chris@...> wrote:
>  
> > Anyone else keeping track of the < 1 day turn around time Rob's got
> > lately on feature requests? Crazy!
>
> Yes, me, the requester.  It is just nuts.  Closed source
> software, "take that!"  The only other time I've had something

Well it was mostly pasting in code and ideas from formats I'd done previously.
Note that it's fairly basic at the moment: no tags or lossy or hybrid support.
Cheers,
Rob


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[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

On 22 March 2008 at 7:21, robs <aquegg@...> wrote:
 
> Well it was mostly pasting in code and ideas from formats I'd
> done previously.  Note that it's fairly basic at the moment: no
> tags or lossy or hybrid support.

Are you using any of the libraries from the wavpack development
package?

--
Kevin



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[Kevin Cosgrove-2]

I've forgotten how to 'make' sox so that I can test it without
installing it.  Could someone loan me a clue please?

Thanks....
 
--
Kevin



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[Michael Chapman-4]

On Saturday 22 March 2008 4:42 pm, you wrote:
> I've forgotten how to 'make' sox so that I can test it without
> installing it.  Could someone loan me a clue please?
>
> Thanks....

Had the same problem. Robs (and here I may be being "Sorcerer's Apprentice")
suggested:
        make clean
        ./configure --disable-shared
        make
Obviously if you "make install" you have blown it (keep as 'user' rather than
root and that should prevent it .... presuming you are Linux).

If it works thank Robs. If it doesn't  _my_ apologies in advance.

        Michael

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[Chris Bagwell]

Kevin Cosgrove wrote:

> Alrighty, I did my first ever CVS checkout of SoX.  Following the
> INSTALL steps, I ran 'autoreconf -i --verbose', which failed.  I
> don't have a configure.in script, and I think I'm stuck.  The
> exit status from that was a failure, the error message I got was:
>
>
> Hmm, it looks like the libltdl didn't get populated by the CVS
> checkout, and so that's missing the configure.ac file.  I did my
> checkout in a clean directory following the instructions here:
> http://sox.sourceforge.net/ 
>
>
>  

Thats kinda a known issue.   You have to run your checkout command with
the -P option so that it will delete the libltdl directory.  I've just
updated the webpage to include this information.

Also, I'll try to submit a trouble ticket to have that directory deleted
inside CVS so that it won't happen so easy.  Your not the first person
its happened to.

Chris


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[Chris Bagwell]

Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
> I've forgotten how to 'make' sox so that I can test it without
> installing it.  Could someone loan me a clue please?
>
> Thanks....
>  
>  
Add the option "--without-libltdl" to your configure run.

Chris

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[Chris Bagwell]

Michael Chapman wrote:

> On Saturday 22 March 2008 4:42 pm, you wrote:
>  
>> I've forgotten how to 'make' sox so that I can test it without
>> installing it.  Could someone loan me a clue please?
>>
>> Thanks....
>>    
>
> Had the same problem. Robs (and here I may be being "Sorcerer's Apprentice")
> suggested:
> make clean
> ./configure --disable-shared
> make
> Obviously if you "make install" you have blown it (keep as 'user' rather than
> root and that should prevent it .... presuming you are Linux).
>
> If it works thank Robs. If it doesn't  _my_ apologies in advance.
>
> Michael
>  

Yes, that should work as well.  When you specify --disable-shared,
internally it also specifies --without-libltdl.  Its the libltdl usage
that forces SoX to need to be installed first.

Chris

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