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Squeak - Seaside

the elevator pitch for seaside

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	the elevator pitch for seaside by Randal L. Schwartz :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message >From http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-elevator-pitch-for-seaside.html But I think I've come up with a good elevator pitch for "why Seaside and not [insert other framework here]", that centers on three key items: abstracted control flows, live debugging, and persistence without ORMs. If you have any input, leave it on the blog, or followup here. I'm presenting my talk in seven hours, and am trying to do some last minute refinement. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	Re: the elevator pitch for seaside by Lukas Renggli :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message I try to avoid mentioning continuations at all (with the exception of a scientific talk). Continuations don't add any value to a presentation, make you look geeky and at best scare people off. Even developers don't need to know about that internal implementation detail. Only show how easy it is to define flow. The same for persistency. This is something commercial vendors worry about. Lukas On 5/3/08, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...> wrote: > > >From http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-elevator-pitch-for-seaside.html > > But I think I've come up with a good elevator pitch for "why Seaside and > not [insert other framework here]", that centers on three key items: > abstracted control flows, live debugging, and persistence without ORMs. > > If you have any input, leave it on the blog, or followup here. I'm presenting > my talk in seven hours, and am trying to do some last minute refinement. > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> > Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	Re: the elevator pitch for seaside by Sophie2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message "Lukas Renggli" <renggli@...> wrote in message > Only show how easy it is to define flow. +1 Discuss what you want a flow to do, write the code as you do so, then run it. Continuations are the magic under the covers. Sophie _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	Re: the elevator pitch for seaside by Avi Bryant-2 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Agreed. In fact, these days I rarely even mention flow. Instead, I would say a key elevator pitch is "callbacks, not field names". Avi On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli@...> wrote: I try to avoid mentioning continuations at all (with the exception of a scientific talk). Continuations don't add any value to a presentation, make you look geeky and at best scare people off. Even developers don't need to know about that internal implementation detail. Only show how easy it is to define flow. The same for persistency. This is something commercial vendors worry about. Lukas On 5/3/08, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...> wrote: > > >From http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-elevator-pitch-for-seaside.html > > But I think I've come up with a good elevator pitch for "why Seaside and > not [insert other framework here]", that centers on three key items: > abstracted control flows, live debugging, and persistence without ORMs. > > If you have any input, leave it on the blog, or followup here. I'm presenting > my talk in seven hours, and am trying to do some last minute refinement. > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> > Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	Re: the elevator pitch for seaside by Victor-67 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy. Suppose I am the vice-president and ask you: "So?" Then, what's next? Victor ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: avi@... To: seaside@... Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [Seaside] the elevator pitch for seaside Agreed. In fact, these days I rarely even mention flow. Instead, I would say a key elevator pitch is "callbacks, not field names". Avi On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli@...> wrote: I try to avoid mentioning continuations at all (with the exception of a scientific talk). Continuations don't add any value to a presentation, make you look geeky and at best scare people off. Even developers don't need to know about that internal implementation detail. Only show how easy it is to define flow. The same for persistency. This is something commercial vendors worry about. Lukas On 5/3/08, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...> wrote: > > >From http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-elevator-pitch-for-seaside.html > > But I think I've come up with a good elevator pitch for "why Seaside and > not [insert other framework here]", that centers on three key items: > abstracted control flows, live debugging, and persistence without ORMs. > > If you have any input, leave it on the blog, or followup here. I'm presenting > my talk in seven hours, and am trying to do some last minute refinement. > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> > Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	Re: the elevator pitch for seaside by stephane ducasse :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Avi what are the other frameworks doing for representing the flow of application? In the past it was quite ugly even on the research side. I always thought that having plain smalltalk to glue together my components was cool. Stef On May 4, 2008, at 4:22 AM, Avi Bryant wrote: > Agreed. In fact, these days I rarely even mention flow. Instead, I > would say a key elevator pitch is "callbacks, not field names". > > Avi > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli@...> > wrote: > I try to avoid mentioning continuations at all (with the exception of > a scientific talk). > > Continuations don't add any value to a presentation, make you look > geeky and at best scare people off. Even developers don't need to know > about that internal implementation detail. Only show how easy it is to > define flow. > > The same for persistency. This is something commercial vendors worry > about. > > Lukas > > On 5/3/08, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...> wrote: > > > > >From http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-elevator-pitch-for-seaside.html > > > > But I think I've come up with a good elevator pitch for "why > Seaside and > > not [insert other framework here]", that centers on three key > items: > > abstracted control flows, live debugging, and persistence > without ORMs. > > > > If you have any input, leave it on the blog, or followup here. > I'm presenting > > my talk in seven hours, and am trying to do some last minute > refinement. > > > > -- > > > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 > 777 0095 > > <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> > > Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > > See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment > Perl training! > > _______________________________________________ > > seaside mailing list > > seaside@... > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	To James foster by Victor-67 :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message The messages I am sending to your private addresses are being rejected. Victor ============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "itsme213" <itsme213@...> To: <seaside@...> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 5:20 PM Subject: [Seaside] Re: the elevator pitch for seaside > "Lukas Renggli" <renggli@...> wrote in message > >> Only show how easy it is to define flow. > > +1 > > Discuss what you want a flow to do, write the code as you do so, then run > it. Continuations are the magic under the covers. > > Sophie > > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
	Re: the elevator pitch for seaside by Todd Blanchard :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message For me - the killer feature is "live hot debugging". That whole - try it again in the debugger button is far and away the coolest thing. I'm missing that quite a lot as I'm stuck in Rails Hell for the next couple months. On May 3, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Avi Bryant wrote: Agreed. In fact, these days I rarely even mention flow. Instead, I would say a key elevator pitch is "callbacks, not field names". Avi On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli@...> wrote: I try to avoid mentioning continuations at all (with the exception of a scientific talk). Continuations don't add any value to a presentation, make you look geeky and at best scare people off. Even developers don't need to know about that internal implementation detail. Only show how easy it is to define flow. The same for persistency. This is something commercial vendors worry about. Lukas On 5/3/08, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...> wrote: > > >From http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/library/post/the-elevator-pitch-for-seaside.html > > But I think I've come up with a good elevator pitch for "why Seaside and > not [insert other framework here]", that centers on three key items: > abstracted control flows, live debugging, and persistence without ORMs. > > If you have any input, leave it on the blog, or followup here. I'm presenting > my talk in seven hours, and am trying to do some last minute refinement. > > -- > > Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 > <merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> > Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. > See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside@... > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside@... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside