tech meeting notes

[Carla Mott]

        <gmurray71> hi ken
        <KenPaulsen> Hi Greg!
        <gmurray71> doesn't look like we will be having a meeting
        <gmurray71> not many people here
        <cmott> i
        <KenPaulsen> Ok, np... I wanted to make sure to show up just in case. :)
        <cmott> Hi
        <KenPaulsen> Hi Carla.
        <cmott> I was looking at a forum question about including pages in tabs
        <cmott> I don't think we'll have a release next week
        <gmurray71> i was looking at a complete redsign of jmaki ;-)
        <cmott> hmmm ???
        <cmott> smaller core?
        <gmurray71> carla : let's talk about the release
        <gmurray71> first
        <cmott> ok
        <gmurray71> then maybe redsign
        <cmott> I have to leave at 10 today
        <gmurray71> so given we are all going to get pulled in different directions
        <gmurray71> what is essential to getting 1.8 in the wild?
        <gmurray71> what's missing?
        <cmott> we talked about documentation
        <gmurray71> yes
        <gmurray71> we need the docs links in the JS docs
        <cmott> the widget.json files need to be updated to include the topic
info stuff
        <gmurray71> we need better json schema
        <cmott> and we need to generate all those docs
        <gmurray71> but maybe we can focus on that and just get this release out
        <cmott> better json schema for what?
        |<-- qoob has left freenode ()
        <gmurray71> the one we have doesn't support action arrays
        <cmott> yes.
        <gmurray71> so we make action a type
        <gmurray71> and then make sure it's defined correctly
        <cmott> what we have doesn't support strings or objects but only strings
        <gmurray71> we also need the schemas on jmakl.com
        <cmott> there was a bug and I didn't have a chance to investigate further.
        <gmurray71> actions can only be arrays or objects
        <cmott> yes.
        <gmurray71> in both cases the object type is the same
        <cmott> I updated the wiki pages to include the latest schemas as I was
updating validate.html
        <cmott> with the exception of action all should be correct
        <gmurray71> the schemas need to be in files
        <gmurray71> like
        <gmurray71> jmaki-datatable-model.json
        <gmurray71> or something like it
        <gmurray71> hosted at http://jmaki.com/schemas/1.0
        <cmott> we could start that today since we have most of the work done
        <gmurray71> calra : let's you and i look at this and see where we are
at early next week
        <cmott> ok
        <gmurray71> as for redesign
        <cmott> hold on
        <gmurray71> I'm looking at: http://royal.pingdom.com/?p=305
        <cmott> what about changes to the samples
        <jdlee> gmurray71: that assessment was... odd
        <jdlee> didn't seem to say much, really :P
        <gmurray71> I think Ext-JS / Dojo are designed for behind the firewall apps
        <gmurray71> and that is why you don't see it in the stats
        <gmurray71> carla : samples need a rework too..good point
        <gmurray71> carla : given we can now do library level overrides in
config.json we can do this now
        <gmurray71> we can share 1 dojo for all the sub apps
        <cmott> ok. I think we should do that and add a description to the
samples or a blog that explains what it does
        <cmott> if we have that I think we have added alot of value in terms of
documentation
        <gmurray71> as for samples
        <gmurray71> we discussed combining the ones in PHP to be one apps
        <gmurray71> app
        <gmurray71> and creating a single app for Java too
        <gmurray71> then we have the separate struts /facelet sample still
        <cmott> you are right. PHP needs some updates and documentation
        <gmurray71> that would make things easier
        <gmurray71> I'll look at all this today
        <gmurray71> I think if we can try we should think about releasing next
week what we have
        <gmurray71> if we don't it might just keep getting pushed off
        <cmott> ok. I think it is doable if we keep things down to a minimum
        <cmott> this will give us a chance to release the html stuff too
        <gmurray71> coding-wise I don't think we have much
        <gmurray71> we need to test test test
        <cmott> this is a documentation focused release...
        <gmurray71> don't forget we added the performance stuff too
        <gmurray71> that was big
        <cmott> yep
        <cmott> We do have alot of stuff in already
        <gmurray71> true
        <gmurray71> so are we good?
        <cmott> yes
        <cmott> on to redesign...
        <gmurray71> for redesign
        <gmurray71> we need to be able to add everything as an extension
        <gmurray71> so the idea would be that the core is very small
        <gmurray71> maybe 2-5 kb
        <gmurray71> and it becomes a loader
        <gmurray71> for making sure we can include 3rd party stuff
        <gmurray71> or jmaki
        <gmurray71> problem is making sure the sets of things that are loadable
can be server driven
        <gmurray71> modules include : ajax
        <gmurray71> for doAajx / JS loading / CSS loading
        <gmurray71> container stuff for injector / dcontainer
        <gmurray71> messaging which would be publish subscribe
        <gmurray71> additional google gears
        <gmurray71> history manager
        <gmurray71> JSON processing
        <gmurray71> logger
        <gmurray71> the key would be to design this in a way that we can add
3rd party stuff into the core like anything else
        <gmurray71> jQuery does this well and we need to look at how they do it
        <cmott> is this so others can write extensions and enhance jmaki more
easily?
        <gmurray71> jmaki becomes a set of extensions
        <gmurray71> the extension loader is the kernal
        <gmurray71> kernel
        <cmott> how much work is it to do this?
        <gmurray71> I still need to give this more thought
        <gmurray71> it's a bit of work
        <gmurray71> and we need to figure out how to define a set of extensions
        <gmurray71> the server's job is to provide the extensions with the
least number of http requests
        <gmurray71> widgets are still widgets following the same model
        <gmurray71> I'd also like to consider hosted widgets
        <gmurray71> ala jmaki gadgets
        <gmurray71> make it easy for us to provide the infrastructure for
persistence
        <gmurray71> so you add a widget hosted by jmaki.com in your page
        <gmurray71> and we make sure it can save it's state
        <gmurray71> though that would require some funky JSONP calls like
google calendar apis
        <gmurray71> you saw google's RSS feed in the page widget right?
        <gmurray71> we can already do that
        <cmott> You told me about google's RSS feed widget.
        <gmurray71> I know ... but ken is here and jdlee
        <cmott> yep
        <cmott> so you are thinking about redesigning after this release?
        <gmurray71> this is a while coming
        <gmurray71> it need more thought
        <gmurray71> might be good to do on jmaki.dev.java.net
        <gmurray71> given it's going to be a new server design
        <cmott> how does this affect the jmaki/jsf work?
        <gmurray71> it's really hard to navigate the code.
        <gmurray71> I'll prototype in PHP first
        * jdlee whispers php++ :P
        <KenPaulsen> :)
        <gmurray71> this is 3-6 months out ;-)
        <KenPaulsen> If you're going to be doing this type of redesign, it
might be worth looking at what JSF 2.0 + jMaki might look like.
        <gmurray71> the widgets will be the same
        <gmurray71> this is more about how we get the core to the user with
widgets with the least about of requests
        <gmurray71> the core in this case would be variable sized
        <KenPaulsen> Ok.
        <gmurray71> depending on app needs
        <cmott> what about the new events back to the server stuff? is that
affected
        * KenPaulsen nods.
        <cmott> seems no
        <gmurray71> carla : redesign
        <gmurray71> this is only talk
        <gmurray71> I'm just musing about making things more consistent
        <gmurray71> spend a day in the code base for Java and you will
understand ;-)
        <gmurray71> I mean the server stuff
        <cmott> so what is the next step? Seems to me that this should be
discussed on the alias as is it is a major change
        <gmurray71> as we get closer yet
        <gmurray71> I still want to think about "what if we could start from
scratch knowing what we know"
        <gmurray71> jmaki is so 2005
        <KenPaulsen> :)
        <gmurray71> it needs mashups / gadgets / more non-visual integration to
be worked in
        <gmurray71> we need to look at where we are strong
        <gmurray71> I believe that is the integration of stuff / messaging /
simple design
        <gmurray71> and we need to play to that
        <cmott> alot of folks like the pub/sub mechanism
        <gmurray71> yes
        <gmurray71> so we make that really good
        <gmurray71> and we make sure that can be used with a simple loader
        <jdlee> the pub/sub part is really, really cool
        <gmurray71> if we work in cross tab loading we are that much better
        <gmurray71> cross tab pub / sub I mean
        <cmott> that would be cool
        <gmurray71> so the problem with breaking things up in little pieces is
that it would mean lots of little requests
        <gmurray71> so we would need to figure a way to get things ala carte
but still with few requests
        <cmott> I guess we should look at what things we said we wanted to do
and how they are affected by a redesign
        <gmurray71> and we apply similar logic to our performance stuff
        <gmurray71> carla : yes
        <gmurray71> but let's focus on getting 1.8 out
        <gmurray71> and then jMaki 2.x latter
        <cmott> ok.
        <gmurray71> i'm just trying to think ahead a little
        <cmott> I'm going on vacation next week starting thursday afternoon
        <gmurray71> oh..so 2.x discussion start Wednesday night ;-)
        <cmott> :)
        <cmott> so can we have something to test Monday afternoon?
        <gmurray71> yes
        <cmott> I think we need mostly documentation
        <cmott> That will give us time to test
        <cmott> I'll work on widget.json updates today
        <gmurray71> tks
        <gmurray71> I'll look at the samples
        <cmott> I want to understand what you do in the samples
        <cmott> blogs can come later
        <gmurray71> calra : all PHP samples become on app
        <cmott> but I get back on July 11 so I want to get something out before
I leave
        <gmurray71> java app is the same
        <gmurray71> one app
        <cmott> I understand. I want to see it built and understand the changes
to the config files etc
        <gmurray71> ok...it's like what we did for jMaki.com
        <gmurray71> or Solaris
        <cmott> ok
        <gmurray71> alright I better go
        <cmott> me too.
        <cmott> I'll post these notes later today
        <jdlee> gmurray71: you're on the NetBeans team, right?
        <jdlee> quick question: is there a good Python plugin for NB?

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