splitting notes?

[zulu97]

why would rosegarden split notes that i have played into a track? they
sound fine as i'm playing them (rosegarden > jack > fluidsynth), but
when i then examine the track in rosegarden, some notes are played
more than once, as if they have been split after recording; i do not
remember this happening the last time i used this software (say 6
months ago); so what might have changed?

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:

> why would rosegarden split notes that i have played into a track? they
> sound fine as i'm playing them (rosegarden > jack > fluidsynth), but
> when i then examine the track in rosegarden, some notes are played
> more than once, as if they have been split after recording; i do not
> remember this happening the last time i used this software (say 6
> months ago); so what might have changed?

Are you getting doubled events in the same segment at the same time, or
actually getting two different segments with duplicate events?

I've had some issues with doubled events in the same segment at the same time,
which I've chased on and off over the years.  I've never been able to pin
down what causes this, but I'm not currently experiencing the problem.

If you're getting multiple physical segments, well, I'd have to think about
that one a minute.  I don't really have time to sit down and play just at the
moment.

Either way, I don't have much to offer in the way of helpful suggestions.  I'm
sort of taking half aimed potshots.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[cannam]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 2:42 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
<michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:

> On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:
>
>> why would rosegarden split notes that i have played into a track? they
>> sound fine as i'm playing them (rosegarden > jack > fluidsynth), but
>> when i then examine the track in rosegarden, some notes are played
>> more than once, as if they have been split after recording; i do not
>> remember this happening the last time i used this software (say 6
>> months ago); so what might have changed?
>
> Are you getting doubled events in the same segment at the same time, or
> actually getting two different segments with duplicate events?

Sounds to me like Settings -> Configure Rosegarden -> Notation ->
"When recording MIDI, split-and-tie long notes at barlines" perhaps?


Chris

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[zulu97]

On 23/06/2008, Chris Cannam <cannam@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 2:42 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
>  <michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:
>  > On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:
>  >
>  >> why would rosegarden split notes that i have played into a track? they
>  >> sound fine as i'm playing them (rosegarden > jack > fluidsynth), but
>  >> when i then examine the track in rosegarden, some notes are played
>  >> more than once, as if they have been split after recording; i do not
>  >> remember this happening the last time i used this software (say 6
>  >> months ago); so what might have changed?
>  >
>  > Are you getting doubled events in the same segment at the same time, or
>  > actually getting two different segments with duplicate events?
>
>
> Sounds to me like Settings -> Configure Rosegarden -> Notation ->
>  "When recording MIDI, split-and-tie long notes at barlines" perhaps?

that doesn't fix it; and i'm not getting doubled events; but thanks
for the responses; what i'm getting (for example) is my original 1/2
note split into a 1/4 note, followed by a 1/8 note and two 1/16 notes;
it makes me sound like i've got the shakes; and i've got enough
problems

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:
> that doesn't fix it; and i'm not getting doubled events; but thanks
> for the responses; what i'm getting (for example) is my original 1/2
> note split into a 1/4 note, followed by a 1/8 note and two 1/16 notes;
> it makes me sound like i've got the shakes; and i've got enough
> problems

Most likely scenario there is that you're either intentionally or
unintentionally playing overlapping rhythms in multiple voices in the same
part.  This kind of thing occurs all the time in music, but Rosegarden can't
sort this out by itself.

Read through:

http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/supplemental/piano/

--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[zulu97]

On 23/06/2008, D. Michael McIntyre <michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:
> Most likely scenario there is that you're either intentionally or
>  unintentionally playing overlapping rhythms in multiple voices in the same
>  part.  This kind of thing occurs all the time in music, but Rosegarden can't
>  sort this out by itself.

i don't want it to sort anything out; and i don't remember it trying
to before; all i want is to be able to play back a performance intact;
i suppose rosegarden just isn't a solution to my midi (piano)
recording needs anymore

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[cannam]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:34 PM, mashoo <zulu97@...> wrote:
> that doesn't fix it; and i'm not getting doubled events; but thanks
> for the responses; what i'm getting (for example) is my original 1/2
> note split into a 1/4 note, followed by a 1/8 note and two 1/16 notes;
> it makes me sound like i've got the shakes; and i've got enough
> problems

Try moving the file .kde/share/config/rosegardenrc (beneath your home
directory) to somewhere else, or renaming it.  Do this while
Rosegarden is not running, so that it can't find the existing config
file next time it starts -- and then try restarting Rosegarden and
give the recording another shot.

I don't honestly think that a spurious config setting would cause the
problem as you describe it, but it's easy to try and has to be worth a
shot.  (If it does fix things, I'd be interested to see what was in
your config file and try to work out what the problem might have
been.)


Chris

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[zulu97]

On 23/06/2008, Chris Cannam <cannam@...> wrote:
>  I don't honestly think that a spurious config setting would cause the
>  problem as you describe it, but it's easy to try and has to be worth a
>  shot.  (If it does fix things, I'd be interested to see what was in
>  your config file and try to work out what the problem might have
>  been.)

good catch! once more i have been taught a lesson i already knew; best
wishes; rosegardenrc follows;

[AudioManagerDialog Layout]
ColumnOrder=0,1,2,3,4,5,6
ColumnWidths=191,64,104,86,70,77,305
SortAscending=true
SortColumn=0

[Bank Editor]
ColumnOrder=0,1,2,3
ColumnWidths=202,88,85,81
Height 768=730
SortAscending=true
SortColumn=0
Width 1024=722

[CollapsingFrame]
nonprintableheaders=false
trackparametersdefaults=false
trackparametersplayback=true
trackparametersrecord=false

[Control Editor]
ColumnOrder=0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
ColumnWidths=152,145,152,98,47,51,71,112,202
Height 768=490
SortAscending=true
SortColumn=0
Width 1024=682

[Device Manager]
Height 768=512
Width 1024=682

[EventList Options]
timemode=0

[General Options]
Expanded Transport=false
Install Own Theme=1
Last File Opened Version=1.5.1
MIDI Thru Routing=true
Show Chord Name Ruler=false
Show Parameters=true
Show Previews=true
Show Rulers=true
Show Segment Labels=true
Show Tempo Ruler=true
Show Track labels=true
Show Transport=false
alwaysusedefaultstudio=false
audiopreviewstyle=1
autosave=false
autosaveinterval=60
backgroundtextures=true
countinbars=2
doubleclickclient=0
externalaudioeditor=/usr/bin/audacity
importbanksoverwrite=true
importbanksrename=true
midipitchoctave=-2
notenamestyle=1
sidebarstyle=0
timesigdialogmakehidden=false
timesigdialogmakehiddenbars=false
timesigdialognormalize=true
timesigdialogshowcommon=true
toolcontexthelp=true
transportx=299
transporty=301

[KFileDialog Settings]
Recent Files[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/testing_stupid_note_splitting_phenomenon.rg,$HOME/multimedia/composition/dawn.002.rg,$HOME/multimedia/composition/20071211T134300Z.rg,$HOME/multimedia/composition/template.rg,$HOME/multimedia/composition/20071209T201622.rg,$HOME/multimedia/composition/20071207T170540.rg,/usr/share/soundfonts/FluidR3_GM.SF2,$HOME/multimedia/composition/test2.mid,$HOME/multimedia/composition/test2.rg,$HOME/multimedia/composition/test.rg,/usr/share/apps/rosegarden/library/GM.rgd,$HOME/multimedia/apps/rosegarden,$HOME/multimedia

[KFileDialog Speedbar]
Description_0=Example Files
Examples Set=true
IconGroup_0=4
Icon_0=folder
Number of Entries=1
URL_0=/usr/share/apps/rosegarden/examples/

[MainView]
Height 768=769
Width 1024=1025

[MainView Toolbar Editors Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=3

[MainView Toolbar Tools Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[MainView Toolbar Tracks Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=2

[MainView Toolbar Transport Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=4

[MainView Toolbar Zoom Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=5

[MainView Toolbar mainToolBar]
Index=0

[Marker Editor]
ColumnOrder=0,1,2
ColumnWidths=101,108,140
Height 768=414
SortAscending=true
SortColumn=0
Width 1024=365

[Marker Editor Toolbar Time Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[Marker Editor Toolbar mainToolBar]
Index=0

[Matrix Options]
Show Chord Name Ruler=false
Show Parameters=true
Show Tempo Ruler=false
Snap Grid Size=-1
backgroundtextures=false
backgroundtextures-1.6-plus=true

[MatrixView]
Height 768=769
Width 1024=1025

[MatrixView Toolbar Actions Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=3

[MatrixView Toolbar Tools Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[MatrixView Toolbar Transport Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=2

[MatrixView Toolbar Zoom Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=4

[MatrixView Toolbar mainToolBar]
Index=0

[Notation Options]
Show Annotations=true
Show Chord Name Ruler=false
Show LilyPond Directives=true
Show Raw Note Ruler=true
Show Tempo Ruler=false
accidentalbarmode=0
accidentaloctavemode=1
autobeam=true
backgroundtextures=true
collapse=false
colourquantize=false
inserttype=0
keysigcancelmode=1
layoutmode=0
lilylanguage=2
multistaffnotesize=8
notefont=Feta
notefontlist=Feta,Feta Pixmaps,RG21
pastetype=0
printingnotesize=5
proportion=60
quantizearticulate=true
quantizecounterpoint=true
quantizedecounterpoint=true
quantizeiterate=100
quantizemakeviable=true
quantizemaxtuplet=1
quantizenotationonly=true
quantizerebeam=true
quantizesimplicity=13
quantizeswing=0
quantizetype=2
quantizeunit=480
showcollisions=true
showinvisibles=true
showranges=true
showunknowns=false
singlestaffnotesize=8
spacing=100
style=Classical
textfont=Times New Roman,12,-1,5,50,0,0,0,0,0
timesigfont=Century Schoolbook,12,-1,5,50,0,0,0,0,0

[NotationView]
Height 768=769
Width 1024=1025

[NotationView Toolbar Accidentals Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=3

[NotationView Toolbar Clefs Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=2

[NotationView Toolbar Group Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=0

[NotationView Toolbar Layout Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=4

[NotationView Toolbar Marks Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[NotationView Toolbar Meta Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=3

[NotationView Toolbar Notes Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=0

[NotationView Toolbar Rests Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[NotationView Toolbar Tools Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[NotationView Toolbar Transport Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=2

[NotationView Toolbar mainToolBar]
Index=0

[Notification Messages]
startup-jack-failed=false

[Quantize Dialog Notation]
quantizearticulate=true
quantizecounterpoint=false
quantizedecounterpoint=true
quantizedurations=true
quantizeiterate=100
quantizemakeviable=true
quantizemaxtuplet=1
quantizenotationonly=true
quantizerebeam=true
quantizesimplicity=13
quantizeswing=0
quantizetype=2
quantizeunit=480

[Recent Dirs]
MIDI=file://$HOME/internet/downloads/,$HOME/
ROSEGARDEN[$e]=file://$HOME/multimedia/composition/,file:///usr/share/apps/rosegarden/examples/,file://$HOME/
SOUNDFONTS=file:///usr/share/soundfonts/,$HOME/

[RecentFiles]
File1[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/testing_stupid_note_splitting_phenomenon.rg
File2[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/dawn.002.rg
File3[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/20071211T134300Z.rg
File4[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/template.rg
File5[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/20071209T201622.rg
File6[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/20071207T170540.rg
File7[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/test2.mid
File8[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/test2.rg
File9[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/test.rg
Name1[$e]=testing_stupid_note_splitting_phenomenon.rg
Name2[$e]=dawn.002.rg
Name3[$e]=20071211T134300Z.rg
Name4[$e]=template.rg
Name5[$e]=20071209T201622.rg
Name6[$e]=20071207T170540.rg
Name7[$e]=test2.mid
Name8[$e]=test2.rg
Name9[$e]=test.rg

[Sequencer Options]
alwayssendcontrollers=false
audiofaderouts=false
audiolowlatencymonitoring=true
audiomixsec=0
audiomixusec=80000
audioreadsec=0
audioreadusec=80000
audiorecordfileformat=0
audiosubmasterouts=false
audiowritesec=0
audiowriteusec=200000
jackcommand=/usr/bin/qjackctl -s
jackmaster=false
jackstart=false
jacktransport=false
midiclock=0
midirecorddevice=8,7
midisyncautoconnect=true
mmcmode=0
mtcmode=0
readaheadsec=0
readaheadusec=80000
sfxloadenabled=false
sfxloadpath=/bin/sfxload
smallaudiofilekbytes=128
soundfontpath=/usr/share/soundfonts/FluidR3_GM.SF2
timer=(auto)

[Synth Plugin Manager]
Height 768=150
Width 1024=200

[TipOfDay]
RunOnStart=false
TipLastShown=2007,1,24,11,53,8

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:

> i don't want it to sort anything out; and i don't remember it trying
> to before; all i want is to be able to play back a performance intact;
> i suppose rosegarden just isn't a solution to my midi (piano)
> recording needs anymore

I see Chris sorted this one out anyway, but I want to point out that in my
last response, I missed your comment about Rosegarden sounding like you
had "the shakes."  The phenomenon I was referring to only affects how the
notation looks on a page. Rosegarden should always be able to reproduce what
you played, no matter how horrible the notation looks.  There are plenty of
circumstances where the notation is so bad it's almost or even completely
useless, but verbatim reproduction is something on the list of things we
should never, ever break.  (This also applies to importing and re-exporting a
MIDI file.  The result you get will very likely differ substantially from the
original in terms of its structure and organization, but it should always
sound just the same as it went in.)

Had I realized that's what was at issue here, I would have come up with an
entirely different sort of response.

Oh well.  Carry on then.  Glad you got it solved.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[zulu97]

On 24/06/2008, D. Michael McIntyre <michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:
>  Had I realized that's what was at issue here, I would have come up with an
>  entirely different sort of response.

a response doesn't have to fit to be good;

i'm glad to have the issue solved, but i wouldn't mind knowing where
it came from; i don't recall flicking a switch to start it, and i
didn't find a switch to stop it; that said, probably the best thing to
conclude is that relocating the config file and restarting the
software is a good place to start when the poo hits the fan; bravo
chris;

now that i look at the new rosegardenrc, the old one seems fat with
configuration; it's easy to imagine that one of those options had
something to do with the problem; for completeness, the new one
follows; cheers, all;

[CollapsingFrame]
nonprintableheaders=false
trackparametersdefaults=false
trackparametersplayback=true
trackparametersrecord=false

[General Options]
Expanded Transport=false
MIDI Thru Routing=true
Show Chord Name Ruler=false
Show Parameters=true
Show Previews=true
Show Rulers=true
Show Segment Labels=true
Show Tempo Ruler=true
Show Track labels=true
Show Transport=false
transportx=299
transporty=301

[KFileDialog Settings]
Recent Files[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/you_go_to_my_head.rg

[KFileDialog Speedbar]
Description_0=Example Files
Examples Set=true
IconGroup_0=4
Icon_0=folder
Number of Entries=1
URL_0=/usr/share/apps/rosegarden/examples/

[MainView]
Height 713=658
Height 768=769
Width 1024=1025

[MainView Toolbar Editors Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=3

[MainView Toolbar Tools Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=1

[MainView Toolbar Tracks Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=2

[MainView Toolbar Transport Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=4

[MainView Toolbar Zoom Toolbar]
IconText=IconOnly
Index=5

[MainView Toolbar mainToolBar]
Index=0

[Notation Options]
lilylanguage=2
notefontlist=Feta,Feta Pixmaps,RG21

[Recent Dirs]
ROSEGARDEN[$e]=file://$HOME/multimedia/composition/,$HOME/

[RecentFiles]
File1[$e]=$HOME/multimedia/composition/you_go_to_my_head.rg
Name1[$e]=you_go_to_my_head.rg

[TipOfDay]
TipLastShown=2008,6,23,17,45,23

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday 24 June 2008, mashoo wrote:
> i'm glad to have the issue solved, but i wouldn't mind knowing where
> it came from; i don't recall flicking a switch to start it, and i
> didn't find a switch to stop it;

It might be a side effect of our rearranging the configuration page, or it
could just be random flake.  I think everybody has had to start with a clean
rosegardenrc at some point along the version upgrade path.  I've had this
problem with other KDE-based applications as well, and now that I think about
it, several of them at that.

Let's officially blame KDE then.  Finger pointing ---------->

But it's likely that the real answer will always remain a mystery.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[cannam]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 2:18 PM, D. Michael McIntyre
<michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:
> On Tuesday 24 June 2008, mashoo wrote:
>> i'm glad to have the issue solved, but i wouldn't mind knowing where
>> it came from; i don't recall flicking a switch to start it, and i
>> didn't find a switch to stop it;
>
> It might be a side effect of our rearranging the configuration page, or it
> could just be random flake.

I think the configuration settings responsible are one or both of
"quantizemakeviable" and "quantizedecounterpoint" in the notation
options section.  I can't explain why either would have become set on
its own, though.

I notice both of them appear in more than one section -- that's a bit
suspect.  Maybe I bungled something in the configuration overhaul.


Chris

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[D. Michael McIntyre]

On Tuesday 24 June 2008, Chris Cannam wrote:
> I notice both of them appear in more than one section -- that's a bit
> suspect.  Maybe I bungled something in the configuration overhaul.

Naw, man, get with the program.  Finger pointing --------->

Finger pointing's where it's at.  ----------->
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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[jimmy-41]

On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:

> i don't want it to sort anything out; and i don't remember it trying
> to before; all i want is to be able to play back a performance intact;
> i suppose rosegarden just isn't a solution to my midi (piano)
> recording needs anymore

You may want to try the command arecordmidi to record your midi input.  To record audio, try arecord command.  Those are part of alsa-utils package in Debian, there should be similar package in other distros.

Once you have the recorded midi, you can try to import it to rosegarden to see if it makes much of a difference for you.

Different tools do things differently, choose the tools that you like the most for specific tasks.

Jimmy



     

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[John Dey]

I was playing with arecordmidi yesterday and it worked like a charm.  
Using the -s option creates a file that splits the file so that each  
track when read by rosegarden is a channel from the midi input.

John
On Jun 24, 2008, at 11:02 AM, jimmy wrote:

> On Monday 23 June 2008, mashoo wrote:
>
>> i don't want it to sort anything out; and i don't remember it trying
>> to before; all i want is to be able to play back a performance  
>> intact;
>> i suppose rosegarden just isn't a solution to my midi (piano)
>> recording needs anymore
>
> You may want to try the command arecordmidi to record your midi  
> input.  To record audio, try arecord command.  Those are part of  
> alsa-utils package in Debian, there should be similar package in  
> other distros.
>
> Once you have the recorded midi, you can try to import it to  
> rosegarden to see if it makes much of a difference for you.
>
> Different tools do things differently, choose the tools that you  
> like the most for specific tasks.
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>
>
>
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