rear coil spring upgrade

[m gol]

Hello

I want to fix the suspension on a 81 vw rabbit.

Is coilsprings.com the best place to go?

Is there another way? Supposedly you could get a cup to compress the spring,
but not sure how that would help?


thanks


Mike G.
Fairbanks

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[Roland Wiench]

By fixing the suspension, what do you mean?

If you mean you want to reset the a vehicle to the original height with the
original weight, or is to restored the ride height with added weight to the
vehicle.

What I did before I remove any of the components from the ICE, is to measure
the existing ride height.  Also while I was add it, I measure the jog or the
maximum up and stop motion of the vehicle by jacking the vehicle off grade,
while the tires where still touching the floor.

I am using a rear wheel drive, so I measure the difference of drive line
angle while the vehicle was off grade and on grade and the amount of forward
and backward motion of the drive line.

I left the existing suspension in place for now and when the EV was
completed, I weigh the whole vehicle, the front axle, and the rear axle.  I
than measure the height of the vehicle off grade at the front and act the
rear.

If you order a set of custom springs, then they will have to know what the
existing weight on each wheel was as compare to what it will have on.  They
will need to known the full length of the existing spring loaded while in
the vehicle and unloaded while they are off the vehicle.  You also have to
give them the diameter of coil and also the diameter of the coil wire.

I found that my rear was lower by 1.125 inch and the front was up 0.875
inch. So all I did was use a heavy duty load type spring for the rears and
pump up the Monroe air shocks I had on the air to 80 psi and that brought up
the rear to the stock height.

The front was still high by 0.625 of a inch, because the front springs was
design for a large engine.  So I remove them, and took them to a Spring
Service place to match them up to a shorter set of springs that also may
have a different spring rate.

Look in your yellow pages, and look for springs or spring service. These
places are not allow to modified any springs, by heating by heating or
cutting.  Only replace with a standard duty or heavy duty types.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "m gol" <gol.m86@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:42 PM
Subject: [EVDL] rear coil spring upgrade

> Hello
>
> I want to fix the suspension on a 81 vw rabbit.
>
> Is coilsprings.com the best place to go?
>
> Is there another way? Supposedly you could get a cup to compress the
> spring,
> but not sure how that would help?
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> Mike G.
> Fairbanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[m gol]

Hello

Thanks for your response.

With the Geo Metro I didn't change the coil springs, I was able to add air
bags in the rear coils to bring the rear end back up.

However on the 81 vw rabbit you can't do that because you have a coil that
goes over the shock...

since I paid only $100 for the air bags for the geo I was wondering if their
was an inexpensive way of improving the rear height of the rabbit....

I don't have any local coil spring shops in this state, but
coilsprings.comseems reasonable at about $279 for the pair...I just
wanted to know if I
need to do that?


thanks!

On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Roland Wiench <ev_7@...> wrote:

> By fixing the suspension, what do you mean?
>
> If you mean you want to reset the a vehicle to the original height with the
> original weight, or is to restored the ride height with added weight to the
> vehicle.
>
> What I did before I remove any of the components from the ICE, is to
> measure
> the existing ride height.  Also while I was add it, I measure the jog or
> the
> maximum up and stop motion of the vehicle by jacking the vehicle off grade,
> while the tires where still touching the floor.
>
> I am using a rear wheel drive, so I measure the difference of drive line
> angle while the vehicle was off grade and on grade and the amount of
> forward
> and backward motion of the drive line.
>
> I left the existing suspension in place for now and when the EV was
> completed, I weigh the whole vehicle, the front axle, and the rear axle.  I
> than measure the height of the vehicle off grade at the front and act the
> rear.
>
> If you order a set of custom springs, then they will have to know what the
> existing weight on each wheel was as compare to what it will have on.  They
> will need to known the full length of the existing spring loaded while in
> the vehicle and unloaded while they are off the vehicle.  You also have to
> give them the diameter of coil and also the diameter of the coil wire.
>
> I found that my rear was lower by 1.125 inch and the front was up 0.875
> inch. So all I did was use a heavy duty load type spring for the rears and
> pump up the Monroe air shocks I had on the air to 80 psi and that brought
> up
> the rear to the stock height.
>
> The front was still high by 0.625 of a inch, because the front springs was
> design for a large engine.  So I remove them, and took them to a Spring
> Service place to match them up to a shorter set of springs that also may
> have a different spring rate.
>
> Look in your yellow pages, and look for springs or spring service. These
> places are not allow to modified any springs, by heating by heating or
> cutting.  Only replace with a standard duty or heavy duty types.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "m gol" <gol.m86@...>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 2:42 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] rear coil spring upgrade
>
>
> > Hello
> >
> > I want to fix the suspension on a 81 vw rabbit.
> >
> > Is coilsprings.com the best place to go?
> >
> > Is there another way? Supposedly you could get a cup to compress the
> > spring,
> > but not sure how that would help?
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > Mike G.
> > Fairbanks
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> > For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[Neon John]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:42:06 -0800, "m gol" <gol.m86@...> wrote:

>Hello
>
>I want to fix the suspension on a 81 vw rabbit.
>
>Is coilsprings.com the best place to go?

Probably not.  I had a whole new set of motorhome springs fabricated for my
rig for less than the $200 coilsprings.com is listing for a P30 chevy chassis
and the price included R&R.  On another occasion they made a new set of rear
leaf springs for my 68 Fury for a similar price and that also included R&R.
This shop does coil and leaf springs and has a complete blacksmith shop in
which to make custom hangers and such.

Look in your yellow pages to see if there is a spring shop in your town.  Also
check with the commercial truck dealers.

It is common for commercial trucks to be re-sprung for the specific load they
are to carry.  That's what the shop that I used specialized in.

If all else fails, this is the one that I use

Mc Glohon's Spring Shop Inc
905 E 16th Street, Chattanooga, TN 37408
phone: [phone]
fax: [phone]

They are listed in whitepages.com under "automobile springs" so you might try
that for your town.

>
>Is there another way? Supposedly you could get a cup to compress the spring,
>but not sure how that would help?

Adding a spacer would add pre-load to the spring but it won't change the rate.
There is a good chance that the spring would coil-bind (be compressed until
all the coils touch each other).  And since the rate hasn't been changed, the
suspension would easily bottom.

The correct spring will have both more preload (static pressure) and a higher
compression rate.  A good spring man should be able to consult his book and
then calculate what you need, based on the new vehicle weight that you expect.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
WARNING: Do not use this hair dryer in the shower!


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[Al-57]

Lookup Coil Spring Specialties in Kansas. They did a pair for the front of
my rabbit for $168 shipped. You just tell them how much weight you want them
to handle.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <jgd@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] rear coil spring upgrade

> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:42:06 -0800, "m gol" <gol.m86@...> wrote:
>
>>Hello
>>
>>I want to fix the suspension on a 81 vw rabbit.
>>
>>Is coilsprings.com the best place to go?
>
> Probably not.  I had a whole new set of motorhome springs fabricated for
> my
> rig for less than the $200 coilsprings.com is listing for a P30 chevy
> chassis
> and the price included R&R.  On another occasion they made a new set of
> rear
> leaf springs for my 68 Fury for a similar price and that also included
> R&R.
> This shop does coil and leaf springs and has a complete blacksmith shop in
> which to make custom hangers and such.
>
> Look in your yellow pages to see if there is a spring shop in your town.
> Also
> check with the commercial truck dealers.
>
> It is common for commercial trucks to be re-sprung for the specific load
> they
> are to carry.  That's what the shop that I used specialized in.
>
> If all else fails, this is the one that I use
>
> Mc Glohon's Spring Shop Inc
> 905 E 16th Street, Chattanooga, TN 37408
> phone: [phone]
> fax: [phone]
>
> They are listed in whitepages.com under "automobile springs" so you might
> try
> that for your town.
>
>>
>>Is there another way? Supposedly you could get a cup to compress the
>>spring,
>>but not sure how that would help?
>
> Adding a spacer would add pre-load to the spring but it won't change the
> rate.
> There is a good chance that the spring would coil-bind (be compressed
> until
> all the coils touch each other).  And since the rate hasn't been changed,
> the
> suspension would easily bottom.
>
> The correct spring will have both more preload (static pressure) and a
> higher
> compression rate.  A good spring man should be able to consult his book
> and
> then calculate what you need, based on the new vehicle weight that you
> expect.
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> WARNING: Do not use this hair dryer in the shower!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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[John in Ma]

Admittedly, I did not do much price comparison research, but  I had a  
good experience with

www.springworks.com.

John
On Jul 20, 2008, at 4:42 PM, m gol wrote:

> Hello
>
> I want to fix the suspension on a 81 vw rabbit.
>
> Is coilsprings.com the best place to go?
>
> Is there another way? Supposedly you could get a cup to compress  
> the spring,
> but not sure how that would help?
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> Mike G.
> Fairbanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/ 
> listinfo/ev
>

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[Adrian DeLeon]

Just ordered a set for my '87 VW Cabriolet (fronts) for $189 from  
coilsprings.com (Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's, KS).

My mechanic coaxed 2" of height into the REAR of my car by placing a 2"  
length of steel pipe around the rear shock absorber. The pipe sat between  
the spring cup and it's original perch on the shock. Of course it didn't  
help with the spring rate, but it kept me from draggin along the ground  
until I got some beefier springs.

My new springs have a great rate, but the ride height was too low.  
Couldn't reproduce the steel pipe trick due to slightly different  
construction on my new shocks :( I ended up stacking a few large washers  
between the top of the spring/shock assembly and the rubber mount that  
fits over the threaded rod at the top. Not the best solution, but it  
works...

I can get some drawings/pics if you'd like.

-Adrian


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[Bill Dube]

Audi 4000 springs will add about an inch of height to a VW Rabbit.

Cheap in the junk yard.

Bill Dube'

At 10:19 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:

>Just ordered a set for my '87 VW Cabriolet (fronts) for $189 from
>coilsprings.com (Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's, KS).
>
>My mechanic coaxed 2" of height into the REAR of my car by placing a 2"
>length of steel pipe around the rear shock absorber. The pipe sat between
>the spring cup and it's original perch on the shock. Of course it didn't
>help with the spring rate, but it kept me from draggin along the ground
>until I got some beefier springs.
>
>My new springs have a great rate, but the ride height was too low.
>Couldn't reproduce the steel pipe trick due to slightly different
>construction on my new shocks :( I ended up stacking a few large washers
>between the top of the spring/shock assembly and the rubber mount that
>fits over the threaded rod at the top. Not the best solution, but it
>works...
>
>I can get some drawings/pics if you'd like.
>
>-Adrian
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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[m gol]

pictures would be wonderful.

not sure if I have a cup,

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Adrian DeLeon <deleon@...> wrote:

> Just ordered a set for my '87 VW Cabriolet (fronts) for $189 from
> coilsprings.com (Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's, KS).
>
> My mechanic coaxed 2" of height into the REAR of my car by placing a 2"
> length of steel pipe around the rear shock absorber. The pipe sat between
> the spring cup and it's original perch on the shock. Of course it didn't
> help with the spring rate, but it kept me from draggin along the ground
> until I got some beefier springs.
>
> My new springs have a great rate, but the ride height was too low.
> Couldn't reproduce the steel pipe trick due to slightly different
> construction on my new shocks :( I ended up stacking a few large washers
> between the top of the spring/shock assembly and the rubber mount that
> fits over the threaded rod at the top. Not the best solution, but it
> works...
>
> I can get some drawings/pics if you'd like.
>
> -Adrian
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

_______________________________________________
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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Bob Rice-2]

  Hi Guyz;

   For what it's worth I Found a set of rear springs and shocks from a BMW
sedan, in the junk yard, a 526 I I think?About an 85 or so? Bolted right in
to the wabbit, only had to bore out the lower arms. Fit perfectly, good ride
height with 14 batteries in back, 5 under the rear seat, 9 in the rear
BEHIND the seat, in a well cut into the sheet metal. No spare tire THERE
anymore!

   My too wats too late post!

    Bob, 82 Wabbit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "m gol" <gol.m86@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] rear coil spring upgrade

> pictures would be wonderful.
>
> not sure if I have a cup,
>
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Adrian DeLeon <deleon@...> wrote:
>
>> Just ordered a set for my '87 VW Cabriolet (fronts) for $189 from
>> coilsprings.com (Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's, KS).
>>
>> My mechanic coaxed 2" of height into the REAR of my car by placing a 2"
>> length of steel pipe around the rear shock absorber. The pipe sat between
>> the spring cup and it's original perch on the shock. Of course it didn't
>> help with the spring rate, but it kept me from draggin along the ground
>> until I got some beefier springs.
>>
>> My new springs have a great rate, but the ride height was too low.
>> Couldn't reproduce the steel pipe trick due to slightly different
>> construction on my new shocks :( I ended up stacking a few large washers
>> between the top of the spring/shock assembly and the rubber mount that
>> fits over the threaded rod at the top. Not the best solution, but it
>> works...
>>
>> I can get some drawings/pics if you'd like.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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[m gol]

did you mean BMW 528 ? I don't there is a 526..

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Bob Rice <bobrice@...> wrote:

>  Hi Guyz;
>
>   For what it's worth I Found a set of rear springs and shocks from a BMW
> sedan, in the junk yard, a 526 I I think?About an 85 or so? Bolted right in
> to the wabbit, only had to bore out the lower arms. Fit perfectly, good
> ride
> height with 14 batteries in back, 5 under the rear seat, 9 in the rear
> BEHIND the seat, in a well cut into the sheet metal. No spare tire THERE
> anymore!
>
>   My too wats too late post!
>
>    Bob, 82 Wabbit.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "m gol" <gol.m86@...>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] rear coil spring upgrade
>
>
> > pictures would be wonderful.
> >
> > not sure if I have a cup,
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Adrian DeLeon <deleon@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Just ordered a set for my '87 VW Cabriolet (fronts) for $189 from
> >> coilsprings.com (Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's, KS).
> >>
> >> My mechanic coaxed 2" of height into the REAR of my car by placing a 2"
> >> length of steel pipe around the rear shock absorber. The pipe sat
> between
> >> the spring cup and it's original perch on the shock. Of course it didn't
> >> help with the spring rate, but it kept me from draggin along the ground
> >> until I got some beefier springs.
> >>
> >> My new springs have a great rate, but the ride height was too low.
> >> Couldn't reproduce the steel pipe trick due to slightly different
> >> construction on my new shocks :( I ended up stacking a few large washers
> >> between the top of the spring/shock assembly and the rubber mount that
> >> fits over the threaded rod at the top. Not the best solution, but it
> >> works...
> >>
> >> I can get some drawings/pics if you'd like.
> >>
> >> -Adrian
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> >> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> > For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[lyn williams]

so who has been down the 'spring path'  for a mazda truck?

<my motor spoda be in today.....gettin excited!>


--
lyn williams <lyn@...>


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[m gol]

tell more about audi 400... year?  is that an american model number?

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:37 PM, Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:

> Audi 4000 springs will add about an inch of height to a VW Rabbit.
>
> Cheap in the junk yard.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 10:19 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote:
> >Just ordered a set for my '87 VW Cabriolet (fronts) for $189 from
> >coilsprings.com (Coil Spring Specialties in St. Mary's, KS).
> >
> >My mechanic coaxed 2" of height into the REAR of my car by placing a 2"
> >length of steel pipe around the rear shock absorber. The pipe sat between
> >the spring cup and it's original perch on the shock. Of course it didn't
> >help with the spring rate, but it kept me from draggin along the ground
> >until I got some beefier springs.
> >
> >My new springs have a great rate, but the ride height was too low.
> >Couldn't reproduce the steel pipe trick due to slightly different
> >construction on my new shocks :( I ended up stacking a few large washers
> >between the top of the spring/shock assembly and the rubber mount that
> >fits over the threaded rod at the top. Not the best solution, but it
> >works...
> >
> >I can get some drawings/pics if you'd like.
> >
> >-Adrian
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> >For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

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[ev-4]

>tell more about audi 400... year?  is that an american model number?

According to wikipedia, the 4000 was a US market model number used in 1980 to 1987 for the car marketed in Europe as the Audi 80.  The same car was sold as the VW quantum (US name, Passat in Europe) '82 to '88.

Bill


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[Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins]

Bob and All,
I thought I had posted about my coil spring swap, and sure enough (see
below), from the evdl.org/help/Yahoo Groups Message Archive link,
the archives are your friend at:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/evdl_post_archive/
Suck Amps,
BB

>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:12:41 -0400
>From: "Bob Rice" <bobrice@...>
>
>  Hi Guyz;
>
>   For what it's worth I Found a set of rear springs and shocks from a BMW
>sedan, in the junk yard, a 526 I I think?About an 85 or so? Bolted right in
>to the wabbit, only had to bore out the lower arms. Fit perfectly, good ride
>height with 14 batteries in back, 5 under the rear seat, 9 in the rear
>BEHIND the seat, in a well cut into the sheet metal. No spare tire THERE
>anymore!
>
>   My too wats too late post!
>
>    Bob, 82 Wabbit.

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:58 pm
Re: Suspension and weight distribution
John, Michael and All,
I hope you didn't put all 24 batteries in the bed, and if you did, it's
just temporary! I only have six floodies under the hood of the truck, and
it's still not enough weight to keep the front tires from breaking loose
under hard decelerating. Also, I would recommend putting the remaining
batteries under the bed for better handling, which you might already be
planning. As far as air shocks, I wouldn't recommend them either for a
permanent solution, as there mounts aren't designed to carry the weight,
and it changes the suspension geometry. Also, air shocks have a harsh ride
and when they blow out, which they will eventually do, it will be at the
worst possible time! Either add a leaf (or two), or change out the coils.
And speaking of changing out the coils, our RX-7 was converted by someone
else with too many floodies in the rear and air shocks. When one of the
shocks blew out last year I replaced them with stock shocks and changed the
coil springs. I had an old '69 Bronco and the front coils were only
slightly larger inside, so they fit over the RX-7 coil mounts nicely. I
simply cut them to the same length as the stock springs after removing
them, and there larger thickness maintained the same ride height as the air
shocks! Now I can put on wider tires and not worry about a fender eating
them when the air shock blows. And Michael, you know how to tell the
difference between a redneck and a progressive redneck(tm) like myself? A
progressive redneck drives an eelectric pickup truck!
Hope this helps,
Suck Amps...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)

2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)


>Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Michael Barkley <koibuff@...>
>
>I'm looking at adding "Air Shocks" to my EV. You can adjust the air pressure

<snip>
>John O'Connor <j.p.oconnor@...> wrote:
> HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
>
>I loaded all my batteries in the back of my pick-up conversion
>(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/791 ) and I see that the rear end is
>riding very low. Looking back at my project notebook, the rear end
>has dropped about 4 inches and the front is about 1 inch higher. Am I
>likely to be able to "fix" this situation with a trip to a suspension
>shop?


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[Jeff Shanab]

I took some pictures  http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/
See "Beefing up the rear suspension"

http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00085.jpg


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For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev