pwgl-users: ksquant

[Orjan Sandred]

Hi Killian,

So this made me check out your library a bit. I see (and remember)  
that we share the concept of separating the metric structure from the  
rhythm (but putting them together at one point). This makes the  
ksquant library very useful I find. And the library is indeed quite  
expressive in the way you expand on this concept.

Just a short comment/question around the example to understand better.

Is there any support for the time line format in ksquant? I would  
assume the problem in the example from Vincent was that two different  
styles on notation was mixed (timeline and proportional) - is that  
correct? Or is it possible to quantify directly from the time line  
format in ksquant? I would assume that using a time line as an input  
is more challenging, since this might include overlaps between  
pitches, but that ksquant uses the idea that each event ends when the  
following event starts (my function does not support this, it is on  
purpose very simple).

Two questions that came up:

I understand that in ksquant there is a possible automatic  
quantification going on in the background. As I understand it, the  
user is never told if it happens or not, correct?

Also, the consequence of starting from 0 is that a sequence cannot  
start with a pause, is that correct?



I will show the library to the students later in the spring.

All the best,

Örjan

[Vincent-Raphaël CARINOLA]

Hi,

I understand better now how two editors. Indeed, a converter between the two would fine : working with non-metrical avoids problems of quantification.

Sometimes (?), if I want to add an entry to the object simple2score, I got an error message (see below).

Another question about ksquant : Would it be possible to have an object that instead of merger two scores, merge (or append) a list of length "n" scores (I can not build it with pwgl-map)?

Thanks and best,

Vincent

Last login: Tue Jan 22 08:59:39 on ttyp1

Welcome to Darwin!

ordinateur-de-vincent-carinola:~ carinola$ /tmp/LWtemp.ordinateur-de-vincent-carinola.local.304.1.command; exit

OMPONENT ("ENP interface" (SYSTEM::ENP->SYNTH)) ("control interface" (SYSTEM::SYNTH-PLUG SYSTEM::UPDATE-PLUG-VALUE "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-PROCESS "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-BPF SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-IF SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-MAPPING "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-VAL)) ("copy synth patch" (SYSTEM::COPY-SYNTH-PATCH SYSTEM::COPY-PATCH-INDEX #<CAPI:MENU-ITEM "csp-out" 23351F0B> "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CONNECT)) ("database" (SYSTEM::READ-MOR-DB)) ("misc" (SYSTEM::UPDATE-SLIDER-BANKS SYSTEM::MULTI-TRIGGER "" SYSTEM::2D-SAMPLEID SYSTEM::LOAD-DEFAULT-SAMPLE "" SYSTEM::RT-ENVELOPE)) ("synth" (SYSTEM::SYNTH-BOX)))) 

 current VBAP2D speaker configuration (-45 45)

Warning: Using DEFPACKAGE to modify #<The FOMUS package, 1258/4096 internal, 244/256 external>.;; WARNING: Reinstalling dispatch macro #Z

;; FOMUS v0.2.12

;; Lisp music notation formatter

;; Copyright (c) 2005, 2006 David Psenicka, All Rights Reserved

;; See file "COPYING" for terms of use and distribution.

;; WARNING: Can't register module file "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/ads.lisp"

;    Undefined function COMPILE-FILE called with arguments (#P"/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/ads.lisp" :PRINT NIL :VERBOSE NIL :OUTPUT-FILE "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/ads.xfasl").

;; WARNING: Can't register module file "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/backends/timedump.lisp"

;    Undefined function COMPILE-FILE called with arguments (#P"/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/backends/timedump.lisp" :PRINT NIL :VERBOSE NIL :OUTPUT-FILE "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/backends/timedump.xfasl").

"QTMidi opened successfully" 

Error: In ZEROP of (NIL) arguments should be of type NUMBER.

  1 (continue) Return a value to use.

  2 Supply a new argument.

  3 (abort) Quit process.

Type :b for backtrace, :c <option number> to proceed,  or :? for other options

SYSTEM 1 : 1 > 

[Vincent-Raphaël CARINOLA]

Sorry, I want to write "input", no "entry!"!

Début du message réexpédié :

De : "V.-R. Carinola" <vr.carinola@...>

Date : 22 janvier 2008 09:11:27 HNEC

À : pwgl-users@...

Objet : Rép : pwgl-users: ksquant

Répondre à : pwgl-users@...

Hi,

I understand better now how two editors. Indeed, a converter between the two would fine : working with non-metrical avoids problems of quantification.

Sometimes (?), if I want to add an entry to the object simple2score, I got an error message (see below).

Another question about ksquant : Would it be possible to have an object that instead of merger two scores, merge (or append) a list of length "n" scores (I can not build it with pwgl-map)?

Thanks and best,

Vincent

Last login: Tue Jan 22 08:59:39 on ttyp1

Welcome to Darwin!

ordinateur-de-vincent-carinola:~ carinola$ /tmp/LWtemp.ordinateur-de-vincent-carinola.local.304.1.command; exit

OMPONENT ("ENP interface" (SYSTEM::ENP->SYNTH)) ("control interface" (SYSTEM::SYNTH-PLUG SYSTEM::UPDATE-PLUG-VALUE "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-PROCESS "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-BPF SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-IF SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-MAPPING "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CTRL-VAL)) ("copy synth patch" (SYSTEM::COPY-SYNTH-PATCH SYSTEM::COPY-PATCH-INDEX #<CAPI:MENU-ITEM "csp-out" 23351F0B> "" SYSTEM::SYNTH-CONNECT)) ("database" (SYSTEM::READ-MOR-DB)) ("misc" (SYSTEM::UPDATE-SLIDER-BANKS SYSTEM::MULTI-TRIGGER "" SYSTEM::2D-SAMPLEID SYSTEM::LOAD-DEFAULT-SAMPLE "" SYSTEM::RT-ENVELOPE)) ("synth" (SYSTEM::SYNTH-BOX)))) 

 current VBAP2D speaker configuration (-45 45)

Warning: Using DEFPACKAGE to modify #<The FOMUS package, 1258/4096 internal, 244/256 external>.;; WARNING: Reinstalling dispatch macro #Z

;; FOMUS v0.2.12

;; Lisp music notation formatter

;; Copyright (c) 2005, 2006 David Psenicka, All Rights Reserved

;; See file "COPYING" for terms of use and distribution.

;; WARNING: Can't register module file "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/ads.lisp"

;    Undefined function COMPILE-FILE called with arguments (#P"/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/ads.lisp" :PRINT NIL :VERBOSE NIL :OUTPUT-FILE "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/ads.xfasl").

;; WARNING: Can't register module file "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/backends/timedump.lisp"

;    Undefined function COMPILE-FILE called with arguments (#P"/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/backends/timedump.lisp" :PRINT NIL :VERBOSE NIL :OUTPUT-FILE "/Applications/PWGL/pwgl-library/fomus/modules/backends/timedump.xfasl").

"QTMidi opened successfully" 

Error: In ZEROP of (NIL) arguments should be of type NUMBER.

  1 (continue) Return a value to use.

  2 Supply a new argument.

  3 (abort) Quit process.

Type :b for backtrace, :c <option number> to proceed,  or :? for other options

SYSTEM 1 : 1 > 

[Kilian Sprotte-3]

Hi,

>
> Another question about ksquant : Would it be possible to have an object that
> instead of merger two scores, merge (or append) a list of length "n" scores
> (I can not build it with pwgl-map)?
>

thanks for the question -- I am attaching a patch merge-n that shows
the 3 score case. You can add more inputs to the list box...

The key here is the lisp function reduce that is used inside the abstraction.

Best,
 Kilian

[Kilian Sprotte-3]

Hi Örjan,

sorry for the delay...

Is there any support for the time line format in ksquant? I would
assume the problem in the example from Vincent was that two different
styles on notation was mixed (timeline and proportional) - is that
correct?

yes, I think that was the problem. Actually in ksquant there is no explicit handling
of the timeline style. The conversion score2simple somehow seems to work
for this case, but I should look at it to really make sure it is supported correctly.
 

Or is it possible to quantify directly from the time line
format in ksquant? I would assume that using a time line as an input
is more challenging, since this might include overlaps between
pitches, but that ksquant uses the idea that each event ends when the
following event starts (my function does not support this, it is on
purpose very simple).

Yes, that's true the ksquant voices in simple format are monophonic. So processing
the timeline format would provide some challenge. - Actually, I am just wondering,
if the existing merge function could help here. A polyphonic voice could always be translated
to a number of monophonic voices. In an extreme case one voice per note.... And then it should be possible to merge them and quantify / convert that.
 

Two questions that came up:

I understand that in ksquant there is a possible automatic
quantification going on in the background. As I understand it, the
user is never told if it happens or not, correct?

Yes, you can try to set the quantization settings to a very fine grained resolution,
but right now this is always going on and you dont know...

Probably, I should add two things:
 - a notification about quantization (why not also a kind of error measure...)
- the possibility to switch of quantization completely
 

Also, the consequence of starting from 0 is that a sequence cannot
start with a pause, is that correct?

You mean this stems from the fact that 0 is always considered to be positive?
Well, there are actually two ways to represent a rest:
 - either the onset is negative
 - the property :rest is t

so this simple-format

((0 :rest t) 1 -2 3 4)

would in fact give you two rests.
 

I will show the library to the students later in the spring.

Cool, the more users the better :)
(And I always like to hear about bugs - I hope that this
library can one today really be considered stable...)

Best,
  Kilian

[Orjan Sandred]

Hi Mikael, Mika, Killian and all,

I have 2 students in my class that use PWGL on PCs, and there are some  
problems:

1. HP computer with Vista. Compatability mode for XP makes PWGL be  
alive a little longer.

Chord editor does not uppdate after you edit its content. After this  
point the score object in the patch behaves strange: half the score  
editor updates and can be moved while the old does not. If you resize  
the window it might clean up. After this the computer might crash.

2. Dell computer with XP.

No MIDI playback (PWGL says "QT playing"). AudioMIDI setup preferences  
gives opens  a terminal with a long error message ending with

"Error: External formayt :ASCII got error reading #<Pointer to type  
<:UNSIGNED :CHAR> = #x010C94A8> at position 5: Non-ASCII code 233"

Any suggestions?

Örjan

[josue moreno]

Hi everyone,

i dont know if this is a problem for other users but i find a bit anoying to find coincidences between PWGL shortcuts and Leopard ones. I had the problem on Tiger calculating the score for play with a Synth because it was the same as the Spotlight shortcut (ctrl-spacebar). I fixed it just disallowing the spotlight shortcut.

In Leopard this has gone worst because Apple is using quite a lot of more shortcuts, so now cmd(apple)-? is for help on the system (SuperCollider changed it for cmd-d),

and my main problem is with ctrl-2 or whatever number when i am editing a score in PWGL. I mean, if i try to divide equally a beat in 4 i just go to space number 4 (again i disallow spaces and it works but i cant divide for 5 or bigger numbers)

Dont know if others have found the same problems or it is just my settings, anyway it is worthy to check it out from the UI point of view,

thanks,

Josué
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