opinion on Willem programmer?

[SM Ling]

Usage: non production need, general R&D, repair and hacking purposes.

Is there another open source programmer around?  or better one with USB support?

I got 2 type of universal programmers.  The higher quality one is
normally quite expensive to maintain, I have 2 needhams basically
sitting idle now.  Their software update is also not as fast as the
Chinese made programmer I have (runfei.com.cn) .   But runfei website
is having some problem.

Along the way, I also made various type of programming adapters  for
different needs.  To protect the investments on future adapters, as
well as to benefit from the flexibility of an open source programmer,
I thought an open source programmer with its increasing library and
longer lifetime should be more useful.

Comments?

Cheers, Ling SM
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[Ray Newman-2]

Job definition please

I graduated back in 1967 and only applied for my 1st two jobs.
Ever since then, I never had to apply. I was lucky enough to have
companies ask me to develop a product or product line.
Design, develop and sometime manufacture.
But
Since my last 4 companies over the past 20 years where purchased by the Chinese
and moved all operation to China I find myself looking for work.
The problem is, I do not know how you describe my work skills.
I am finding "design" refers to drafting.

You can view my resume:
http://www.microdesigns.biz/Res_2008.htm

Any suggestions to improve would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Ray


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[Alan B. Pearce]

>Is there another open source programmer around?  or better one with USB
>support?

Well Olin recently made his USB programmer source open for download, so if
there is a specific requirement you have, then that would be eminently
hackable.

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[Olin Lathrop]

SM Ling wrote:
> Is there another open source programmer around?  or better one with
> USB support?

http://www.embedinc.com/products/usbprog.  This is a native USB programmer
carefully designed for robustness and works over the full range of compliant
USB voltages.  The optional development software download includes the PIC
firmware and host software source.


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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:38 PM, SM Ling <sm.ling11@...> wrote:
> Usage: non production need, general R&D, repair and hacking purposes.
>
> Is there another open source programmer around?  or better one with USB support?
>
> I got 2 type of universal programmers.  The higher quality one is
> normally quite expensive to maintain, I have 2 needhams basically
> sitting idle now.

That is quite typical. Back in 1999 I was trying to update an
Data I/O (was Sprint) R&D programmer and they asked for
something like US$3000 for the software updates. In the end I
bought Promate II+PICC 7.85+ICE2000 for less. But for mass
production, the company maintain a contract with Data I/O
since there are many different types of programmable device,
including some legacy device.

> Their software update is also not as fast as the
> Chinese made programmer I have (runfei.com.cn) .   But runfei
> website is having some problem.

Try to call them. Maybe they forget to pay the bill. But maybe they
go bust.

Xeltek seems to be one of the best supported programmer
among main-land China programmer makers.

> Along the way, I also made various type of programming adapters  for
> different needs.  To protect the investments on future adapters, as
> well as to benefit from the flexibility of an open source programmer,
> I thought an open source programmer with its increasing library and
> longer lifetime should be more useful.
>
> Comments?
>

>From the Wellem website, I think it is not great after all. And
the support for PIC is even worse and it seems to rely on
WinPIC800 (closed source, non-free firmware now).

How many programmable device are you using? It seems to me
it is too costly to support a good universal programmer for an
indivisual or a small company. And now for new MCUs, the
vendors will tend to provide a good and relatively cheap
programmer.

And most of the new MCUs will support JTAG or some kind
of ICSP (or ISP) programming so you do not really need an
expensive adapter.

So I think universal programmers are now kind of obsoleted
except for mass-production.

Xiaofan
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[Apptech]

> Job definition please

Dunno. But you may be able to convince people like this that
they want you to work for them.
They have an office in Shanghai

        http://www.speckdesign.com/

        http://www.speckdesign.com/about/capabilities

But, then you'd have to work for them :-)




        R


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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Alan B. Pearce <A.B.Pearce@...> wrote:
> >Is there another open source programmer around?  or better one with USB
> >support?
>
> Well Olin recently made his USB programmer source open for download, so if
> there is a specific requirement you have, then that would be eminently
> hackable.
>

Olin's programmer does not really belong to open source because of the
license limit. It is also not easy to hack as well. EasyProg's source
codes have been available for years and nobody has even write the
host software for it under Linux. The EmbedInc programming specification
is also available long ago and only one very old attempt was made to use
it with Wisp628 (http://www.philpem.me.uk/elec/pic/easyisp/).

PICkit 2's source codes are open as well. But it is not open source
either as the license limits the usages to Microchip product.
And hacking a programmer is actually difficult for PICs. Even though
PICkit 2's source codes are available, it is not really that easy to
understand it thanks to the complexity of Microchip programming
specifications. So far none of the alternative "open source" PIC
programmers can beat PICkit 2 with its host software (the console
version pk2cmd has been ported to Linux by Jeff Post).
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=331582
Even with the PICkit 2 source codes, the attempt to write a
pure GPLed host software has not been achieved Jeff Post's
pk2 and Nicolas Hadacek's piklab).

There are many open source programmers. But very few aims to be
an universal one. Avrdude is targeting for Atmel MCUs. Open_OCD
are mainly targeting ARM based MCUs.

Xiaofan
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[Martin Klingensmith]

The USBProg is "open source" in the sense that the schematic is
available, as is the firmware and host-side protocol:
<http://www.embedinc.com/products/usbprog/index.htm>
It's not an open-source license but I'd bet that you can't find a better
programmer for 80 USD.
-
Martin

SM Ling wrote:

> Usage: non production need, general R&D, repair and hacking purposes.
>
> Is there another open source programmer around?  or better one with USB support?
>
> I got 2 type of universal programmers.  The higher quality one is
> normally quite expensive to maintain, I have 2 needhams basically
> sitting idle now.  Their software update is also not as fast as the
> Chinese made programmer I have (runfei.com.cn) .   But runfei website
> is having some problem.
>
> Along the way, I also made various type of programming adapters  for
> different needs.  To protect the investments on future adapters, as
> well as to benefit from the flexibility of an open source programmer,
> I thought an open source programmer with its increasing library and
> longer lifetime should be more useful.
>
> Comments?
>
> Cheers, Ling SM

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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Martin <martin@...> wrote:
> The USBProg is "open source" in the sense that the schematic is
> available, as is the firmware and host-side protocol:
> <http://www.embedinc.com/products/usbprog/index.htm>
> It's not an open-source license but I'd bet that you can't find a better
> programmer for 80 USD.
> -

Better is subjective. To me PICkit 2 at US$35 is better than
USBprog since it supports more PICs. It even supports PIC32 that
I am now experimenting with.

Yes USBprog solved one problem for PICKit 2 (USB port voltage
can be low) so it is better in a way.

Xiaofan
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[SM Ling]

>>   But runfei website is having some problem.
>
>  Try to call them. Maybe they forget to pay the bill. But maybe they
>  go bust.

I hope they can be still around.  They have been updating the software
for free for the last few years.

>  >From the Wellem website, I think it is not great after all. And
>  the support for PIC is even worse and it seems to rely on
>  WinPIC800 (closed source, non-free firmware now).

Not really focusing on PIC squarely.  Guess most here probably have
different kind of PIC programmers by now.

>  How many programmable device are you using? It seems to me
>  it is too costly to support a good universal programmer for an
>  indivisual or a small company. And now for new MCUs, the
>  vendors will tend to provide a good and relatively cheap
>  programmer.

For the stated purpose I cannot tell what device I shall meet.  Just
recently, Runfei has been versatile, let me reprogramed the 93C56
inside the Canon print head and recovered some of them.  As you know,
price of 1 Ink head = 1 printer.

Now I have a need to do some 28F008 flash from Intel.

Previously I checked, Willem was totally not usable.  While my
programmers and manufacturers are slowly dying out, my impression is
Willem programmer is growing stronger.  Neither am I religious about
the purity of the open-source concept, but having a little openness
here seem to be helpful in keeping this type of tool alive longer.

Cheers, Ling SM
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:28 PM, SM Ling <sm.ling11@...> wrote:

> >  How many programmable device are you using? It seems to me
> >  it is too costly to support a good universal programmer for an
> >  indivisual or a small company. And now for new MCUs, the
> >  vendors will tend to provide a good and relatively cheap
> >  programmer.
>
> For the stated purpose I cannot tell what device I shall meet.  Just
> recently, Runfei has been versatile, let me reprogramed the 93C56
> inside the Canon print head and recovered some of them.  As you know,
> price of 1 Ink head = 1 printer.

I see. PICkit 2 support 93C56. It supports I2C/SPI/MicroWire EERPOMs
and many more.

> Now I have a need to do some 28F008 flash from Intel.

I see. I am not so sure about this one. PICKit 2 does not
support it and I am not so sure if someone will port it
to support those Flash memories.

> Previously I checked, Willem was totally not usable.  While my
> programmers and manufacturers are slowly dying out, my impression is
> Willem programmer is growing stronger.  Neither am I religious about
> the purity of the open-source concept, but having a little openness
> here seem to be helpful in keeping this type of tool alive longer.

That is true. Open source does give you one more possibility
to fix a dead product.

Xiaofan
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[M. Adam Davis-2]

It looks pretty reasonable and descriptive to me.  You seem to focus
on "product design" without specifying what you mean by that.  The
rest of the resume suggests you do electrical/electronic engineering
and mechanical engineering so you may want to place those phrases
somewhere on your resume.

Also, you focus on a wide variety of skills, such as project
management, procurement, design, etc.  This is valuable in small
companies, and for certain projects in large companies, but you may
find that it suggests Jack-of-all-trades, Expert-of-none.  In other
words, it's not very tightly focused, and by comparison many other job
seekers will appear a better fit for a specific job, even though you
may be more expert for a given position.

If you are finding that the resume isn't being picked up by anyone
then it suggests that the resume doesn't fit the types of jobs you're
applying for.  We might be able to give you better suggestions if you
tell us the jobs you're looking for.

I've found that crafting my resume to highlight those things that are
spoken of in the actual job offer gets much better response.  That
means sending and tracking customized resumes per job prospect,
though, which is a bit of work, but it's worth it if it means you find
the perfect fit between your experience and the employer's needs.  I
have a very long resume - customizing it means highlighting relevant
experience by removing sections, descriptions, skills and experience
that aren't relevant, leaving a much shorter, but more highly
focussed, resume.  I'm not trying to make up sections that are
relevant, I'm removing material that the employer likely doesn't care
about and won't want to wade through.  I can discuss these other
experiences in an interview if they become more relevant once more
about the job is known.

At large companies you often have the HR person (or worse, a database
search such as used by Microsoft) that culls the resumes before
sending the best prospects on to the hiring manager.  They know
nothing about the reality of the job, only what the job description
and requirements say, and what your resume says.  If it doesn't match
very closely to the requirements and description, the person who makes
the decision won't even see the resume.

Good luck!

-Adam

On 5/7/08, Ray Newman <list@...> wrote:

> Job definition please
>
> I graduated back in 1967 and only applied for my 1st two jobs.
> Ever since then, I never had to apply. I was lucky enough to have
> companies ask me to develop a product or product line.
> Design, develop and sometime manufacture.
> But
> Since my last 4 companies over the past 20 years where purchased by the Chinese
> and moved all operation to China I find myself looking for work.
> The problem is, I do not know how you describe my work skills.
> I am finding "design" refers to drafting.
>
> You can view my resume:
> http://www.microdesigns.biz/Res_2008.htm
>
> Any suggestions to improve would be greatly appreciated!
> Thanks,
> Ray
>
>
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[Olin Lathrop]

Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Olin's programmer does not really belong to open source because of the
> license limit.

That's quite unfair.  Just about all "open" software has some usage
limitation.  People seem to consider GPL source "open", although its
restrictions can be rather onerous in some cases.  My restrictions are
different, but the important point is the code is open for all to see.  If
you require that "open" also means totally free to use for whatever you want
in any way you want, then most of what is commonly referred to as "open"
isn't, including everything from the Open Software Foundation.

If your goal is to make your own firmware for a USBProg, then my copyright
doesn't stop you.  Note that you could even sell your modified code without
having to disclose the source, which is something you couldn't do with GPL
code.

> It is also not easy to hack as well.

Sure it is.  The source code and build scripts are all there.  Once you
install the software according to the directions, have MPLAB installed
properly, and set the MPLABDIR environment variable according to the
directions, the build script BUILD_EUSB_EXPIC.BAT should just work.  Now you
can make incremental modifications to the firmware as you want.  I also
challenge you to find better documented PIC programmer source code anywhere.

Microchip has used several different programming algorithms with many
different flavors, so a PIC programmer that supports a wide range of PICs is
not going to be trivial.  I just checked, and the total USBProg firmware
source code is 13.5K lines of code.  However it is modularized, with the
largest module that implements a programming algorithm (24H, 30F, and 33F)
only being 1044 lines of code, and that is further broken up inside using
numerous subroutines and macros.

What exactly did you find "not easy to hack"?  Did you even try or look at
the source code?  I'm generally willing to help people with it.

> EasyProg's source
> codes have been available for years and nobody has even write the
> host software for it under Linux. The EmbedInc programming
> specification
> is also available long ago and only one very old attempt was made to
> use
> it with Wisp628 (http://www.philpem.me.uk/elec/pic/easyisp/).

And this is the fault of the code or the specification how exactly?

I think this mostly points out that open source is overrated.  Far too many
people make a big deal about whether code is open or not, but in the end
most people just want to get their job done and not have to screw with their
tools to do so.  However, I recognize that a small few do want to hack the
code, so I've made it available and am even willing to help.  What more
exactly do you want?

> And hacking a programmer is actually difficult for PICs. Even though
> PICkit 2's source codes are available, it is not really that easy to
> understand it thanks to the complexity of Microchip programming
> specifications.

Yes, the programming specifications are complex, and you shouldn't expect to
understand code that implements them without understanding the
specifications.  However, have you looked at my code?  I think you will find
its documentation to be above all others.


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[Alan B. Pearce]

>It looks pretty reasonable and descriptive to me.  You seem to focus
>on "product design" without specifying what you mean by that.  The
>rest of the resume suggests you do electrical/electronic engineering
>and mechanical engineering so you may want to place those phrases
>somewhere on your resume.

I have had a quick scan of it, and would agree with this. But there are some
areas that would worry me. All the hobbies listed are 'work related' - what
do you do outside this? Often looked at to see if you have other useful
skills, such as leadership of a group, or expertise outside the specific
skill set advertised for.

>Also, you focus on a wide variety of skills, such as project
>management, procurement, design, etc.  This is valuable in small
>companies, and for certain projects in large companies, but you may
>find that it suggests Jack-of-all-trades, Expert-of-none.  In other
>words, it's not very tightly focused, and by comparison many other job
>seekers will appear a better fit for a specific job, even though you
>may be more expert for a given position.

Also you list what appear to be two companies or businesses that you are
involved with. What will happen with them if you do get to take up a job
offer? You specifically list yourself as owner of them, so what happens to
the business if you get employed, do they get sold off, closed, go dormant,
or are they a possible leak of IP from the new employer?

>If you are finding that the resume isn't being picked up by anyone
>then it suggests that the resume doesn't fit the types of jobs you're
>applying for.  We might be able to give you better suggestions if you
>tell us the jobs you're looking for.
>
>I've found that crafting my resume to highlight those things that are
>spoken of in the actual job offer gets much better response.  That
>means sending and tracking customized resumes per job prospect,
>though, which is a bit of work, but it's worth it if it means you find
>the perfect fit between your experience and the employer's needs.

This is what I have heard too.

>I have a very long resume - customizing it means highlighting relevant
>experience by removing sections, descriptions, skills and experience
>that aren't relevant, leaving a much shorter, but more highly
>focussed, resume.

This is what I would do with the bits about ownership of the two businesses
I mentioned above. Also the parts about 'developed strong business
relationships with off shore plastic injection mold suppliers' - again could
you be looking to undermine something your prospective employer already
does? This could be mentioned as part of an interview to show you know what
is required at this part of new product gestation.

Also 'Introduced microprocessors into the industrial automation control
industry ...' - the way the paragraph is worded it sounds like you did it
single handed with no-one else in the industry doing it, when I suspect it
was really as part of a team at your then employer. Perhaps the paragraph
should start 'Involved with the introduction ...' etc.


>At large companies you often have the HR person (or worse, a database
>search such as used by Microsoft) that culls the resumes before
>sending the best prospects on to the hiring manager.  They know
>nothing about the reality of the job, only what the job description
>and requirements say, and what your resume says.  If it doesn't match
>very closely to the requirements and description, the person who makes
>the decision won't even see the resume.

And as part of this, I have seen it suggested that rather than including
just acronyms (like FPGA) include the full word sequence from which that
acronym is derived, as the filtering software may have one, but not the
other. I see you include 'digital phase locked loop', but have 'PLL' - you
may also want 'DPLL'

I would also drop a lot of the company names from the document presented to
prospective employers. Some name dropping of them during a verbal interview
may be more appropriate when mentioning specific projects that you want to
use as examples of work done.

Good luck!

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[Martin Klingensmith]

Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Martin <martin@...> wrote:
>> The USBProg is "open source" in the sense that the schematic is
>> available, as is the firmware and host-side protocol:
>> <http://www.embedinc.com/products/usbprog/index.htm>
>> It's not an open-source license but I'd bet that you can't find a better
>> programmer for 80 USD.
>> -
>
> Better is subjective. To me PICkit 2 at US$35 is better than
> USBprog since it supports more PICs. It even supports PIC32 that
> I am now experimenting with.
>
> Yes USBprog solved one problem for PICKit 2 (USB port voltage
> can be low) so it is better in a way.
>
> Xiaofan

I said $80, the PICkit is $35 ;)
The USBprog can write/verify at different voltages, Olin gives out the
host source code, that makes it a better programmer by my standard (yes
it's subjective... etc etc etc)


-
Martin
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[Ray Newman-2]

Interesting.
Thanks,
Ray

On Thu, 08 May 2008 00:01:13 +1200, Apptech wrote:

>> Job definition please
>>
> Dunno. But you may be able to convince people like this that they
> want you to work for them. They have an office in Shanghai
>
> http://www.speckdesign.com/
>
> http://www.speckdesign.com/about/capabilities
>
> But, then you'd have to work for them :-)
>

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[William "Chops" Westfield]

On May 7, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>  Just about all "open" software has some usage limitation.  People  
> seem to consider GPL source "open", although its restrictions can  
> be rather onerous in some cases.  My restrictions are different,  
> but the important point is the code is open for all to see.

FWIW, I agree pretty exactly with Olin here.  The minimal requirement  
to be "open source" is that you can look at the source, make  
modifications and build it for your own personal or company-internal  
use.  Anything beyond that is extra, and the "standards" for open  
source (like GPL) are indeed onerous...

BillW

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