how to move objects

[menno]

hello list, Steven

i'm a bit stuck in my composition. I've found some
beautiful sounds (using SimplePlayer1.3 and
cmask-clusters) and have played with various
automation lines that were created because of the need
of variation in the sounds with effects (phaser,
tremolo)
I'm ready to place the objects and automation points
in time but the problem is: i can't move the
automation points along with the objects i've created.
And even after putting the objects with automation
points i'm sure i need to rescale them later a bit to
really fit them in the composition.
At the moment i do not know how to move these
objects/points so i can not really start the
composition. I've become dependend on the combination
Object/automation lines.
 Is it possible to give the handling (rescaling and
moving) of the automation points a higher priority
please?
Any ideas of how this can be accomplished?

Menno


http://home.hccnet.nl/mag.knevel/
http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/


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[Michael Bechard]

Yeah, currently there is no easy way to move the automation stuff en-mass around the timeline.  However, as a temporary solution, you can use a XSLT stylesheet I wrote that will move all automation outside of blue.  You're probably not wanting all of the automation moved together, but you could, with a look at the blue XML file structure and some editing of the XSLT, move the parts that you want.  It would be a PITA, but if you're willing to give it a try:

(from an earlier post)

http://friends.kunstmusik.com/mbechard/files/pushAutomation.xslt

Thatis an XSL stylesheet to transform blue projects by adding a constanthorizontal value to every automation point in the project, effectivelypushing or pulling all automation along the timeline. This will dountil the requisite functionality in blue is there. You can do thetransform via xsltproc like so:

xsltproc -o <new file name> pushAutomation.xslt <blue project file>

The amount of nudging is specified by a global variable named"push" declared near the top of the stylesheet; edit this valuedirectly in the XSLT file to suit your needs. If you have questions,let me know.

Michael Bechard


----- Original Message ----
From: na bob <nabob_cd@...>
To: bluemusic-users@...
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 4:01:08 AM
Subject: [Bluemusic-users] how to move objects

hello list, Steven

i'm a bit stuck in my composition. I've found some
beautiful sounds (using SimplePlayer1.3 and
cmask-clusters) and have played with various
automation lines that were created because of the need
of variation in the sounds with effects (phaser,
tremolo)
I'm ready to place the objects and automation points
in time but the problem is: i can't move the
automation points along with the objects i've created.
And even after putting the objects with automation
points i'm sure i need to rescale them later a bit to
really fit them in the composition.
At the moment i do not know how to move these
objects/points so i can not really start the
composition. I've become dependend on the combination
Object/automation lines.
 Is it possible to give the handling (rescaling and
moving) of the automation points a higher priority
please?
Any ideas of how this can be accomplished?

Menno


http://home.hccnet.nl/mag.knevel/
http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/


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[Steven Yi]

Hi Menno,

I'm glad you brought this up as I was sorting through things to work
on and wasn't sure what to do next.  I'm currently working on the
tempo editor which looks like it'll get done tonight or tomorrow.  As
for this, I'm sort of curious to know how it should work, and not just
for moving points, but for selecting points, entering points, and
everything.  I'll try downloading some commercial apps, Ardour, and
anything else I can find to get an idea of how the interaction is
supposed to work.  If you could describe in precise terms how the user
interaction you'd like for all automation point handling, we can
discuss here and I'll set myself to work on this after the tempo
editor.

Thanks!
steven

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:01 AM, na bob <nabob_cd@...> wrote:

> hello list, Steven
>
>  i'm a bit stuck in my composition. I've found some
>  beautiful sounds (using SimplePlayer1.3 and
>  cmask-clusters) and have played with various
>  automation lines that were created because of the need
>  of variation in the sounds with effects (phaser,
>  tremolo)
>  I'm ready to place the objects and automation points
>  in time but the problem is: i can't move the
>  automation points along with the objects i've created.
>  And even after putting the objects with automation
>  points i'm sure i need to rescale them later a bit to
>  really fit them in the composition.
>  At the moment i do not know how to move these
>  objects/points so i can not really start the
>  composition. I've become dependend on the combination
>  Object/automation lines.
>   Is it possible to give the handling (rescaling and
>  moving) of the automation points a higher priority
>  please?
>  Any ideas of how this can be accomplished?
>
>  Menno
>
>
>  http://home.hccnet.nl/mag.knevel/
>  http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
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>  This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>  Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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>  _______________________________________________
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>  Bluemusic-users@...
>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users
>

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[Michael Bechard]

I'll chuck my opinion at this too.  How about a separate sound object to house any number of automations?  It just seems to fit in with the blue way of doing things.  That would also allow you to do things to automation like stretching, repeat, etc.

Now, I realize that for effects automation is always on and you have to account for that.  You could make the initial values of automations (the ones that start at time 0 in the sound object) remain at that value from the beginning of the score until that sound object, and let the last values of the automations remain at that value until the end of the score or until another automation object is encountered.  If this doesn't jive with what the user wants, they can just as easily make the object stretch further forwards or backwards in time as they see fit, and they can also easily group the automation object with the associated sound objects in a poly object.

Like I said, it seems to fit with the blue paradigm.

Michael Bechard

----- Original Message ----
From: Steven Yi <stevenyi@...>
To: blue users mailing list <bluemusic-users@...>
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2008 10:54:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Bluemusic-users] how to move objects

Hi Menno,

I'm glad you brought this up as I was sorting through things to work
on and wasn't sure what to do next.  I'm currently working on the
tempo editor which looks like it'll get done tonight or tomorrow.  As
for this, I'm sort of curious to know how it should work, and not just
for moving points, but for selecting points, entering points, and
everything.  I'll try downloading some commercial apps, Ardour, and
anything else I can find to get an idea of how the interaction is
supposed to work.  If you could describe in precise terms how the user
interaction you'd like for all automation point handling, we can
discuss here and I'll set myself to work on this after the tempo
editor.

Thanks!
steven

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:01 AM, na bob <nabob_cd@...> wrote:

> hello list, Steven
>
>  i'm a bit stuck in my composition. I've found some
>  beautiful sounds (using SimplePlayer1.3 and
>  cmask-clusters) and have played with various
>  automation lines that were created because of the need
>  of variation in the sounds with effects (phaser,
>  tremolo)
>  I'm ready to place the objects and automation points
>  in time but the problem is: i can't move the
>  automation points along with the objects i've created.
>  And even after putting the objects with automation
>  points i'm sure i need to rescale them later a bit to
>  really fit them in the composition.
>  At the moment i do not know how to move these
>  objects/points so i can not really start the
>  composition. I've become dependend on the combination
>  Object/automation lines.
>   Is it possible to give the handling (rescaling and
>  moving) of the automation points a higher priority
>  please?
>  Any ideas of how this can be accomplished?
>
>  Menno
>
>
>  http://home.hccnet.nl/mag.knevel/
>  http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/6789/
>  http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7428/
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>  Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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>  _______________________________________________
>  Bluemusic-users mailing list
>  Bluemusic-users@...
>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluemusic-users
>

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[Atte]

Steven Yi wrote:

> I'm glad you brought this up as I was sorting through things to work
> on and wasn't sure what to do next.

:-)

Did you consider the possibility of sending a custom score event on stop
but before terminating the csound process?

--
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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[Steven Yi]

Hi Atte,

Sorry I let that one slip.  The issue I see with that is that I would
need to either use the API (which I have been looking into but have
not planned enough yet on all the design issues) or limit to just on
platforms which can take score events from stdin.  If we do the
latter, that would only work on non-windows.  Alternatively... we
could maybe use an OSC message and I could add an OSC library to blue
to trigger an OSC command on quit, but that's not as reliable IMO.
(Not everyone compiles OSC when building csound, older versions of
csound don't support OSC, etc.).  Maybe that isn't as big an issue,
but still a consideration.

The trick now is that when blue goes to stop a performance, it takes
the process and basically sends a kill.  Regardless of method, we
would still have to wait at least one ksmps between when we send the
shutdown score event and the kill.

Now, perhaps a possibility we should look at is directly make jack
library calls.  I experimented with JNA (https://jna.dev.java.net/)
which is like Python's ctypes but for Java.  This allows loading and
calling library functions from c libraries.  What that means is that
it could be possible to have blue directly call jack to do transport
things, but that might be overly complicated as I think blue would
have to register with Jack instead of using csound's connection to
jack, plus issues with latency between time between when csound parses
and starts running, so...

Probably best to add some kind of custom score on stop.  But... if
that happens, what about when csound naturally stops and not due to a
blue stop command?  Then csound will exit and blue won't have a chance
to get csound to do a jack transport stop.

Hm... not sure where to go from here. Any thoughts?  Am I over-thinking this?

steven


On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Atte André Jensen <atte.jensen@...> wrote:

> Steven Yi wrote:
>
>  > I'm glad you brought this up as I was sorting through things to work
>  > on and wasn't sure what to do next.
>
>  :-)
>
>  Did you consider the possibility of sending a custom score event on stop
>  but before terminating the csound process?
>
>  --
>  peace, love & harmony
>  Atte
>
>  http://atte.dk       | http://myspace.com/attejensen
>  http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk
>
>
>
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[Atte]

Steven Yi wrote:

> Hm... not sure where to go from here. Any thoughts?

Well, native blue/jack support might be the best solution, but just to
make things work (I expect they will) right now, I thought the "send
custom score event before stop" solution was a quick-and-dirty solution.
It's not too dirty on the blue side, more so if one wants to sync with
jack (it's done in user land, and scattered all over the .blue).

I don't think having to wait another ksmps before stopping makes any
difference.

If csound stops the performance, hmmm... Wouldn't <TOTAL_DUR> work for
this? Couldn't I insert a jacktransport <TOTAL_DUR> 0 to make jack stop
at the end of a performance?

--
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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[Atte]

Atte André Jensen wrote:

> Well, native blue/jack support might be the best solution,

Correction, the ability to record midi and transform it to score events
would the *best* solution, I know this is more work, but in the end,
this would be the dream...

--
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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