Nabble - debian-jr

Re: Name poll (Was: New name: Call for opinions)

2008-10-06T05:32:38Z

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Andreas Tille wrote:

> Once the poll is restarted from scratch no additional name suggestions
> will be accepted. The new name will be in the set specified inside
> the poll.
>
> People several times criticised that this type of poll is inferior
> to a condorset voting method. In the case of an unclear result
> with 2 or 3 competing names I would suggest to take all names
> which at least reach a number of 70% of the maximum votes (so
> if the "winner" get 10 votes take all the names that at least get
> 7 votes) and put them into a condorset ballot (including the
> "non of the above" option). This sounds like a lot of effort
> for just finding a name (I never thought that I would do this
> just to find a name) but I was convinced that it needs some effort
> to find general acceptance and I would really like to make sure
> that people accept the change.

Here is the set those naming suggestions that reached the limit I have
set above:

Debian Pure Blends 16 votes
Debian Spins 14 votes
Integrated Debian Projects 12 votes
Debian Slice 12 votes

70% of 16 is 11.2 so every other suggestion like

Debian Remix 11 votes
Debian Integrated Solutions 9 votes
Debian subproject 9 votes
Integrated Debian Distribution 8 votes
...

are below in the doodle poll for a new name.

> http://doodle.ch/ggey86bvqnmcnuyb

Looking further that
9 of 14 voters for Debian Spins voted for Debian Pure Blends as well,
7 of 12 voters for Integrated Debian Projects voted for Debian Pure
Blends as well,
5 of 12 voters for Debian Slice voted for Debian Pure Blends as well,
seems to give a hint that we might have some kind of raw consensus for the
suggestion that at least won the Doodle poll.

My personal opinion: I liked it from the beginning when I heard the suggestion
the first time at Extremadura meeting.

To come to a final conclusion for a new name I would like to know whether
a considerable number of people insist on a condorset voting and if these
people would volunteer to support this voting by spending some time on the
technical details. My problem is that I'll be offline next week and as
I told you I would like to see a consensus until OSWC (actually I will
have ma talk at 22. October). So there is not much time left. So in
case you have honest concerns about Debian Pure Blends or you feel the
way we found this name is really inacceptable speak up now and ask for a
condorcet voting about the four suggestions above. It would be nice if
you would add to this request your involvement into the stuff we are
talking about - I just have read a few names on the poll I do not remember
from one of the mailing list.

Kind regards and thanks for joining the poll

Andreas.
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kind request from PAS NGO

2008-10-01T20:17:35Z

debian-jr@...

Respected Sir/Madame,

Greetings from PAS non profit NGO from Chittoor District, Andhra Pradesh, India.

African countries and Asian countries have similar issues such as energy problems, poverty and poor socio economic development. They can share among ourselves many things. Our NGO would like to submit a project proposal to your esteemed organization to promote solar cookers, solar heather, biogas, smokeless chulahs and energy tree plantation. We have come to know that BP is helping to promote renewable energy through NGOs.

We kindly request you to help us to get the fund. Kindly forward this letter to the appropriate section and staff in BP.

If you could do me this favour we would be highly thankful to you.

Yours sincerely,

M Balavardhi Raju, Chief Functionary

dr d dhanapal resource person PAS NGO

and Hon. Director, Geo Resource Centre

PAS NGO

90, Bandarlapalli Cross Road,Ramakuppam - 517 401

Chitoor Dist. Andhra Pradesh, India

---------------------------

Organization Fact Sheet

Name of the Organization : Praja Abyudaya Samastha (PAS)

Address : Praja Abyudaya Samastha,

90, Bandarlapalli Cross Road, Ramakuppam - 517 401,

Chittoor District, A.P. India

Telephone : 08587 - 279328 / Mobile:09390101722

E-mail : praja_as@...

www.pas.org

Legal Status : Registered under Society Registration

Act XXI of 1860 vide Registration No. & Date: No.84/85 dated. 28.03.1985

Registered under Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act, 1976 in Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India vide Registration No.: 01014006. Dated. 15.07.1985

Registered under Income Tax Act, 1961 u/s 12 A

Income Tax Permanent Account No: AAATP6890R

Name of the Chief Functionary : Mr. M.Balavardiraju

Address : 90, Bandarlapalli Cross Road, Ramakuppam - 517 401,

Chitoor District, A.P.

Telephone : Resi: 08153 - 261296 Mob:09390101722

Bank Details:

Name of the Bank : The ING VYSYA Bank Limited,

Ramakuppam Branch,

Ramakuppam Post, PIN: 517 401

FCRA Bank A/c No. : S.B. A/c No.1882 (New No:34901000871)

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.

Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-10-01T04:37:04Z

Hi,

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 11:37, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> Probably. But it doesn't stop me from wishing this were not so. I
> didn't want Debian Jr. to be *only* a packaging effort. I wanted a
> living, breathing relationship between children, their caretakers and
> developers. We've fallen far short of this lofty ideal, but that
> doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be kept alive. That's the
> distinctiveness that is at risk to be lost if we're just absorbed by
> Debian Edu.

That living, breathing relationship stuff sounds good and like a worthwhile
reason to keep Jr and Edu distinct. But then, it's also something I'd very
much like to see for Debian Edu and Debian :) (Though then probably with
slightly different players...)

regards,
Holger, who is also curious to read more about Miriams ideas...

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-10-01T03:23:53Z

2008/10/1 Andreas Tille <tillea@...>:
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ben Armstrong wrote:
>> Not a bad technical solution, as I said. Let's just see what comes of
>> the alternate proposal by Miriam to have youth lead this project as a
>> group before going down that road, though.
>
> That would be ideal. Miriam?

That has been my plan since I said I was going to take care of the
project. I want us to make a distro for children and teens made by
youth themselves (of course, with the necessary technical assistance
from our side), in which they can get involved, they can control its
evolution and that they can feel it as their own (and not as
externally imposed to them). I seriously think the best way of making
it work is by having the kids themselves giving feedback and taking as
much decisions as possible and my roadplan goes along those lines. The
first step will be to design and develop the infrastructure needed for
kids to get involved, and that's the point where I'm currently at. I
plan to write more extensively on this when I have some time, but if
anyone who likes kids or is a kid her/himself has time and is willing
to get involved in helping push a project like this and wants to
contact me, I'll be willing to get some time out of nowhere to explain
my vision, to listen to alternative proposals to things I might be
considering, and to coordinate.

Greetings,
Miry

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-10-01T03:08:38Z

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ben Armstrong wrote:

> Probably. But it doesn't stop me from wishing this were not so. I
> didn't want Debian Jr. to be *only* a packaging effort. I wanted a
> living, breathing relationship between children, their caretakers and
> developers. We've fallen far short of this lofty ideal, but that
> doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be kept alive. That's the
> distinctiveness that is at risk to be lost if we're just absorbed by
> Debian Edu.

I absolutely subscribe to this statement. I've nothing against Debian Edu
(rather the contrary) but I think Debian Jr. could do more for the
original target audience if it would keep a team alive.

> Not a bad technical solution, as I said. Let's just see what comes of
> the alternate proposal by Miriam to have youth lead this project as a
> group before going down that road, though.

That would be ideal. Miriam?

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-10-01T02:55:47Z

2008/10/1 Ben Armstrong <synrg@...>:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:30:40 +0200
> Holger Levsen <holger@...> wrote:
>> Yup. Has something happened on this in the last month?
>
> Miriam Ruiz has some ideas, but since our initial contact on the
> matter, I have not seen any action on them.

I have some ideas and I plan to do work on this. I just didn't have
time until now because this weeks have been really exahusting at work,
and also due to some personal matters involving someone in my close
family and the hospital. I might be a bit away these days, but I'm
definitely not giving up the project :)

>> Hm. Honestly, I have no idea how kids see Debian Jr. now, maybe I wonder if
>> they can see it, as currently afaik its "only" a packaging effort within
>> Debian, so I dont think it's visible to them. Do you agree? ;)
>
> Probably. But it doesn't stop me from wishing this were not so. I
> didn't want Debian Jr. to be *only* a packaging effort. I wanted a
> living, breathing relationship between children, their caretakers and
> developers. We've fallen far short of this lofty ideal, but that
> doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be kept alive. That's the
> distinctiveness that is at risk to be lost if we're just absorbed by
> Debian Edu.

I don't have the time nor the mood to fully explain my ideas right
now, but I will. I want to have children and teenagers somehow
involved in the development of what would be their distribution too,
and I think I know how to achieve that.

>> Basically, to keep Debian Jr. distinct, I would suggest branding :)
>
> Not a bad technical solution, as I said. Let's just see what comes of
> the alternate proposal by Miriam to have youth lead this project as a
> group before going down that road, though.

Whatever I do, I don't plan to have separate repositories of any kind,
but to use Debian's, so my plan would lead to effectively create a
Debian branding targeted to kids.

Greetings,
Miry

PS: I'm sorry for not beint more verbose right now. I'm a bit
overloaded due to some things outside Debian.

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-10-01T02:37:58Z

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:30:40 +0200
Holger Levsen <holger@...> wrote:
> Yup. Has something happened on this in the last month?

Miriam Ruiz has some ideas, but since our initial contact on the
matter, I have not seen any action on them.

> Sounds good and compatible :)

OK ...

> That said, I dont see much of a problem here, or maybe rather, an easy way
> out: Debian Edu provides two key features: customisation of the desktop for
> pupils/schools and providing a network infrastructure for schools. Debian Jr.
> doesnt need the latter at all (or? kindergarten network seems a bit far out
> to me atm, maybe its not), but thats no issue, as Debian Edu also already has
> standalone installs.
>
> And we even have different desktop profiles for standalone installs now: kde,
> gnome and sugar. And I would love to extend this to "kde for primary school,
> kde for middle classes, kde for high school and university" and the same with
> gnome. And then also kde & gnome for kids.
>
> I'd think this would boil down to provide a different installer image or
> installation type with the existing image. So basically, a Debian Edu install
> with "less overhead", which is not needed for a single^wstandalone kids
> machine.

Well, technically, it appears things would work out.

> > How
> > do you think children would view Jr if it were an arm of the Edu
> > project? In Debian Jr, our focus is the child and the fun of
> > discovery. While some progressive educationists claim to hold to these
> > values, I worry about how kids would view the Jr project if it were
> > absorbed into Edu.
>
> Hm. Honestly, I have no idea how kids see Debian Jr. now, maybe I wonder if
> they can see it, as currently afaik its "only" a packaging effort within
> Debian, so I dont think it's visible to them. Do you agree? ;)

Probably. But it doesn't stop me from wishing this were not so. I
didn't want Debian Jr. to be *only* a packaging effort. I wanted a
living, breathing relationship between children, their caretakers and
developers. We've fallen far short of this lofty ideal, but that
doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be kept alive. That's the
distinctiveness that is at risk to be lost if we're just absorbed by
Debian Edu.

> Basically, to keep Debian Jr. distinct, I would suggest branding :)

Not a bad technical solution, as I said. Let's just see what comes of
the alternate proposal by Miriam to have youth lead this project as a
group before going down that road, though.

Ben

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-09-30T08:29:04Z

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Holger Levsen <holger@...> wrote:

Hi Ben,

On Monday 25 August 2008 11:38, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> Thanks. It's hard to let go, but it's really for the best if someone
> else will carry on.

Yup. Has something happened on this in the last month?

> > Is that vision written down somewhere?
> It is probably best expressed on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr quoted
> below:

Sounds good and compatible :)

> > Because I often think, that Debian Jr. could be(come a) part of Debian
> > Edu. In Etch Debian Edu came with one preconfigured desktop (which is KDE
> > and rather aimed at older students), but now we are in the process of
> > merging with Linex and they have used three (iirc) different gnome
> > desktops (configurations), one for 1st+2nd grade, one for 3rd+4th grade
> > and another one for older students. I'd say that Debian Jr fits in the
> > 0th+1st grade "category" ;-)
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> While I would not have any problem with that if Edu cared for the
> project and preserved the vision I described above, I have always
> felt my own ideas for Jr had nothing to do with school and might indeed
> by swallowed up by school concerns if we were an arm of the Debian Edu
> project. That is why I kept it a distinct project.

/me nods.

That said, I dont see much of a problem here, or maybe rather, an easy way
out: Debian Edu provides two key features: customisation of the desktop for
pupils/schools and providing a network infrastructure for schools. Debian Jr.
doesnt need the latter at all (or? kindergarten network seems a bit far out
to me atm, maybe its not), but thats no issue, as Debian Edu also already has
standalone installs.

And we even have different desktop profiles for standalone installs now: kde,
gnome and sugar. And I would love to extend this to "kde for primary school,
kde for middle classes, kde for high school and university" and the same with
gnome. And then also kde & gnome for kids.

I'd think this would boil down to provide a different installer image or
installation type with the existing image. So basically, a Debian Edu install
with "less overhead", which is not needed for a single^wstandalone kids
machine.

> But we're in poor
> shape right now, and the most important thing is that the project go
> forward. How would you propose the distinctiveness of Jr be kept?

See above :)

> How
> do you think children would view Jr if it were an arm of the Edu
> project? In Debian Jr, our focus is the child and the fun of
> discovery. While some progressive educationists claim to hold to these
> values, I worry about how kids would view the Jr project if it were
> absorbed into Edu.

Hm. Honestly, I have no idea how kids see Debian Jr. now, maybe I wonder if
they can see it, as currently afaik its "only" a packaging effort within
Debian, so I dont think it's visible to them. Do you agree? ;)

Basically, to keep Debian Jr. distinct, I would suggest branding :)

regards,
Holger

So, Debian Jr will be included into Debian Edu?

--
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Maximiliano Marin
http://blogs.opensur.org/maximilinux

Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-09-30T07:30:40Z

Hi Ben,

On Monday 25 August 2008 11:38, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> Thanks. It's hard to let go, but it's really for the best if someone
> else will carry on.

Yup. Has something happened on this in the last month?

> > Is that vision written down somewhere?
> It is probably best expressed on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr quoted
> below:

Sounds good and compatible :)

> > Because I often think, that Debian Jr. could be(come a) part of Debian
> > Edu. In Etch Debian Edu came with one preconfigured desktop (which is KDE
> > and rather aimed at older students), but now we are in the process of
> > merging with Linex and they have used three (iirc) different gnome
> > desktops (configurations), one for 1st+2nd grade, one for 3rd+4th grade
> > and another one for older students. I'd say that Debian Jr fits in the
> > 0th+1st grade "category" ;-)
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> While I would not have any problem with that if Edu cared for the
> project and preserved the vision I described above, I have always
> felt my own ideas for Jr had nothing to do with school and might indeed
> by swallowed up by school concerns if we were an arm of the Debian Edu
> project. That is why I kept it a distinct project.

/me nods.

That said, I dont see much of a problem here, or maybe rather, an easy way
out: Debian Edu provides two key features: customisation of the desktop for
pupils/schools and providing a network infrastructure for schools. Debian Jr.
doesnt need the latter at all (or? kindergarten network seems a bit far out
to me atm, maybe its not), but thats no issue, as Debian Edu also already has
standalone installs.

And we even have different desktop profiles for standalone installs now: kde,
gnome and sugar. And I would love to extend this to "kde for primary school,
kde for middle classes, kde for high school and university" and the same with
gnome. And then also kde & gnome for kids.

I'd think this would boil down to provide a different installer image or
installation type with the existing image. So basically, a Debian Edu install
with "less overhead", which is not needed for a single^wstandalone kids
machine.

> But we're in poor
> shape right now, and the most important thing is that the project go
> forward. How would you propose the distinctiveness of Jr be kept?

See above :)

> How
> do you think children would view Jr if it were an arm of the Edu
> project? In Debian Jr, our focus is the child and the fun of
> discovery. While some progressive educationists claim to hold to these
> values, I worry about how kids would view the Jr project if it were
> absorbed into Edu.

Hm. Honestly, I have no idea how kids see Debian Jr. now, maybe I wonder if
they can see it, as currently afaik its "only" a packaging effort within
Debian, so I dont think it's visible to them. Do you agree? ;)

Basically, to keep Debian Jr. distinct, I would suggest branding :)

regards,
Holger

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2008-09-30T04:04:06Z

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Re: Hi!

2008-09-29T22:39:48Z

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008, Maximiliano Marin Bustos wrote:

> Hi guys
> I'm very interested in Debian Jr and i want to know who is working in this project.

Many thanks for your interest in Debian Junior! Unfortunately currently this
project is kind of sleeping:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-jr/2008/08/msg00002.html

> Maybe we can make new things with new versions.

This would be really great. As I wrote in this thread I'm willing to
provide technical help and I have some ideas what should be done next
from a technical point of view - but I will not start here alone. My
main energy is in the Debian Med project and I'm willing to help in the
sense of finding synergies and things that can be done in common from a
technical point - but the project definitely needs some love from people
who are really focused on the topic.

> Here, in Chile, there are many poor
> schools and they want to work with GNU/Linux and Free Software.

Debian Jr is not really targeted at schools - may be you might like
to have a view on Debian Edu ...

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Hi!

2008-09-29T14:50:54Z

Hi guys
I'm very interested in Debian Jr and i want to know who is working in this project. Maybe we can make new things with new versions. Here, in Chile, there are many poor schools and they want to work with GNU/Linux and Free Software.

My Best Regards

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Maximiliano Marin
http://blogs.opensur.org/maximilinux

Re: Name poll (Was: New name: Call for opinions)

2008-09-29T02:02:53Z

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008, David Paleino wrote:

> where "Change vote" is a link pointing to
> http://doodle.ch/edition.html?pollId=ggey86bvqnmcnuyb&participantName=David+Paleino&participantId=$id&credential=$credential
>
> (obviously, $id and $credential have been stripped off :) )
>
> I believe that just saving this link would let people changing the vote later...

Yes - but this does not work for people who forgot to save the link ...

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Re: Name poll (Was: New name: Call for opinions)

2008-09-29T01:12:45Z

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:54:28 +0200 (CEST), Andreas Tille wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Andreas Tille wrote:
>
> > So we decided to remove all votes from the
> > current ballot next Monday morning
>
> This happened now because nobody showe up who found a way to change
> a vote on doodle.

Well, I have. It's simple, and clearly stated :)

I've just voted, and this showed up at the top of the page:

"Thanks, David Paleino, the data has been saved. Change vote"

where "Change vote" is a link pointing to
http://doodle.ch/edition.html?pollId=ggey86bvqnmcnuyb&participantName=David+Paleino&participantId=$id&credential=$credential

(obviously, $id and $credential have been stripped off :) )

I believe that just saving this link would let people changing the vote later...

Kindly,
David

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Re: Name poll (Was: New name: Call for opinions)

2008-09-29T00:54:28Z

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Andreas Tille wrote:

> So we decided to remove all votes from the
> current ballot next Monday morning

This happened now because nobody showe up who found a way to change
a vote on doodle.

> and start voting again about
> the suggestions which are known at this point in time.

For the record:

12 votes: Debian Spins
11 votes: Debian Remix
10 votes: Debian Pure Blends

All other suggestions got less than 8.4 (70% of 12) votes and thus
would be below the limit I suggested for a potential condorset voting
in case we have no clear winner (I would not regard the result above
as a clear winning situation).

> This is
> the reason why I post to all these lists:
>
> If you have an additional suggestion just suggest it *NOW*.

There were no additional suggestions with the syntax I asked you
to use until now (I hope that there was no technical reason for
this - some network restructuring at my institute might have delayed
some mails but this should have been sorted out since hours).

So please go now to

http://doodle.ch/ggey86bvqnmcnuyb

and vote about a name. I would apreciate if you use firstname
and surname. It makes it easier to identify people in case of
questions.

Kind regards

Andreas.

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2008-09-27T22:57:23Z

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TABEL ANGSURAN

PINJAMAN 1 TAHUN 2 TAHUN 3 TAHUN

8,000,000 816,267 482,933

9,000,000 918,300 543,300

10,000,000 1,020,334 603,666

10,500,000 1,071,350 633,850

11,000,000 1,122,367 664,033

12,000,000 1,224,401 724,400

13,000,000 1,326,434 784,766

14,000,000 1,428,467 845,133

15,000,000 1,505,000 887,500 686,667

16,000,000 1,605,333 946,667 732,444

17,000,000 1,705,667 1,005,833 778,222

18,000,000 1,806,000 1,065,000 824,000

19,000,000 1,906,333 1,124,167 869,778

20,000,000 2,006,667 1,183,333 915,556

21,000,000 2,107,000 1,242,500 961,333

22,000,000 2,207,333 1,301,667 1,007,111

23,000,000 2,307,667 1,360,833 1,052,889

24,000,000 2,408,000 1,420,000 1,098,667

25,000,000 2,508,333 1,479,167 1,144,444

25,500,000 2,558,500 1,508,750 1,167,333

26,000,000 2,608,667 1,538,333 1,190,222

27,000,000 2,709,000 1,597,500 1,236,000

28,000,000 2,809,333 1,656,667 1,281,778

29,000,000 2,909,667 1,715,833 1,327,556

30,000,000 3,010,000 1,775,000 1,373,333

31,000,000 3,110,333 1,834,167 1,419,111

32,000,000 3,210,667 1,893,333 1,464,889

33,000,000 3,311,000 1,952,500 1,510,667

34,000,000 3,411,333 2,011,667 1,556,444

35,000,000 3,511,667 2,070,833 1,602,222

36,000,000 3,612,000 2,130,000 1,648,000

37,000,000 3,712,333 2,189,167 1,693,778

38,000,000 3,812,667 2,248,333 1,739,556

39,000,000 3,913,000 2,307,500 1,785,333

40,000,000 4,013,333 2,366,667 1,831,111

41,000,000 4,113,667 2,425,833 1,876,889

42,000,000 4,214,000 2,485,000 1,922,667

43,000,000 4,314,333 2,544,167 1,968,444

44,000,000 4,414,667 2,603,333 2,014,222

45,000,000 4,515,000 2,662,500 2,060,000

46,000,000 4,615,333 2,721,667 2,105,778

47,000,000 4,715,667 2,780,833 2,151,556

48,000,000 4,816,000 2,840,000 2,197,333

49,000,000 4,916,333 2,899,167 2,243,111

50,000,000 5,016,667 2,958,333 2,288,889

55,000,000 5,518,333 3,254,167 2,517,778

60,000,000 6,020,000 3,550,000 2,746,667

65,000,000 6,521,667 3,845,833 2,975,556

70,000,000 7,023,333 4,141,667 3,204,444

75,000,000 7,525,000 4,437,500 3,433,333

80,000,000 8,026,667 4,733,333 3,662,222

85,000,000 8,528,333 5,029,167 3,891,111

90,000,000 9,030,000 5,325,000 4,120,000

95,000,000 9,531,667 5,620,833 4,348,889

100,000,000 10,033,333 5,916,667 4,577,778

105,000,000 10,535,000 6,212,500 4,806,667

110,000,000 11,036,667 6,508,333 5,035,556

115,000,000 11,538,333 6,804,167 5,264,444

120,000,000 12,040,000 7,100,000 5,493,333

125,000,000 12,541,667 7,395,833 5,722,222

Name poll (Was: New name: Call for opinions)

2008-09-26T01:02:58Z

Hi once more to all related lists,

my suggestion for a new name received a lot of comments and it turned
out that I got not so much positive reactions on the mailing list than
when discussing it with people at DebConf. The consequence of the
discussion of the debian-custom mailing list was that we try to reach
a consensus using a Doogle poll. I know that not all people who are
involved in these user oriented projects are reading the debian-custom
list and so I would like to advertise this poll on all list I feel
relevant. If you want to answer this mail please go to debian-custom
only.

Technical hint: We found out that it seems not to be possible with
Doodle to change a vote. So if there comes an additional name
suggestion in and it is added to the poll previous voters can not
vote for it any more (if somebody knows Doodle better - just share
your knowledge!). So we decided to remove all votes from the
current ballot next Monday morning and start voting again about
the suggestions which are known at this point in time. This is
the reason why I post to all these lists:

If you have an additional suggestion just suggest it *NOW*.

So there are three days left for additional suggestions and I explained
here[1] the syntax how to ask me to add a new name to the poll. (I
only accept this and not a set of roughly written thoughts inside a
free text.)

Once the poll is restarted from scratch no additional name suggestions
will be accepted. The new name will be in the set specified inside
the poll.

People several times criticised that this type of poll is inferior
to a condorset voting method. In the case of an unclear result
with 2 or 3 competing names I would suggest to take all names
which at least reach a number of 70% of the maximum votes (so
if the "winner" get 10 votes take all the names that at least get
7 votes) and put them into a condorset ballot (including the
"non of the above" option). This sounds like a lot of effort
for just finding a name (I never thought that I would do this
just to find a name) but I was convinced that it needs some effort
to find general acceptance and I would really like to make sure
that people accept the change.

For those people who are interested enough in this mail and read
until the end here is the URL of the poll:

http://doodle.ch/ggey86bvqnmcnuyb

Kind regards

Andreas.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-custom/2008/09/msg00037.html

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Learn from foresightlinux for kids

2008-09-25T01:05:14Z

Hi,

is there any volunteer who has time to verify that the software
which is included in

http://www.foresightlinux.org/kids.html

is listed on out tasks pages at

http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/junior/tasks/index.html

Just tell me in case something is missing. If some software is
not even included in Debian yet, please mention it as well and
try to do some research on

Name:
Homepage:
License:
Description:

for those packages to list this stuff as prospective package.

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Utterly Confidential. .

2008-09-22T18:53:09Z

Hi,
Pardon me for not having the pleasure of knowing your mindset before making you this offer and it is utterly confidential and genuine by virtue of its nature.
I write to solicit your assistance in a funds transfer deal involving US$ 3.5M.This fund has been stashed out of the excess profit made last year by my branch office the International Commercial Bank which I am the manager.
I have already submitted an approved end of the year report for the year 2006 to my head office here in Accra-Ghana and they will never know of this excess.
I have since then, placed this amount on a Non-Investment Account without a beneficiary. Upon your response, I will configure your name on our database as holder of the Non-Investment Account.
I will then guide you on how to apply to my head office for the Account Closure/ bank-to-bank remittance of the funds to your designated bank account.
If you concur with this proposal, I intend for you to retain 30% of the funds while 70% shall be for me. Kindly forward your response to: akatony101@...
Mobile: +233-24-468-5072
With Regards,
Dr.Anthony Aka

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-08-25T05:01:31Z

2008/8/25 Andreas Tille <tillea@...>:

> Miriam, good luck at the revitalisation front! I'm willing to support
> your effort by sharing experiences and technically with the DIS tools
> (formerly known as CDD tools).

Thanks a lot!! I will gladly take your word and be able to benefit
from your experience! :)

Greetings,
Miry

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-08-25T04:51:37Z

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008, Miriam Ruiz wrote:

> I have different plans for Debian Jr than those in from Debian-Edu if
> I was to adopt that project. It would be nice to talk about it. I'll
> try to find time to write a text on my view about the future of the
> Debian Jr Project as soon as I can.

>From my point of view if you provide a system for children it is always
connected to education - so there is definetely a common set between
Debian Edu and Debian Jr. My perception of these both projects is that
while Debian Edu targets computers in a school Debian Jr has the goal
to make Debian attractive for children at home (including children which
are not yet in school). So even if there is a good chance of fruitful
cooperation (lurking members of both projects on each mailing list makes
perfectly sense) I would see some sense in keeping the projects separately -
provided that the attempt to revitalise Debian Jr proves to be successful.
If the later is not the case some Debian Edu@home (with some people
dedicated to work on this!) might be a reasonable alternative.

(BTW, knowing that more and more Debian Edu members have children at
home I see an increased motivation to work on these issues. ;-))

Miriam, good luck at the revitalisation front! I'm willing to support
your effort by sharing experiences and technically with the DIS tools
(formerly known as CDD tools).

Kind regards

Andreas.

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-08-25T03:11:41Z

2008/8/25 Ben Armstrong <synrg@...>:

> While I would not have any problem with that if Edu cared for the
> project and preserved the vision I described above, I have always
> felt my own ideas for Jr had nothing to do with school and might indeed
> by swallowed up by school concerns if we were an arm of the Debian Edu
> project. That is why I kept it a distinct project. But we're in poor
> shape right now, and the most important thing is that the project go
> forward. How would you propose the distinctiveness of Jr be kept? How
> do you think children would view Jr if it were an arm of the Edu
> project? In Debian Jr, our focus is the child and the fun of
> discovery. While some progressive educationists claim to hold to these
> values, I worry about how kids would view the Jr project if it were
> absorbed into Edu.

Hi,

I have different plans for Debian Jr than those in from Debian-Edu if
I was to adopt that project. It would be nice to talk about it. I'll
try to find time to write a text on my view about the future of the
Debian Jr Project as soon as I can.

Greetings,
Miry

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-08-25T02:38:58Z

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:15:39 +0200
Holger Levsen <holger@...> wrote:
> thanks for your work on Debian Jr. and for acknowledging that you don't have
> time/a heart for it anymore!

Thanks. It's hard to let go, but it's really for the best if someone
else will carry on.

> Is that vision written down somewhere?

It is probably best expressed on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianJr quoted
below:

Guiding Principles

We aim to help children and those who care for them to get the most use
and enjoyment out of their Debian systems; to help them acquire some of
the skills and experiences we have as adults; and to convey to them our
values: our love of freedom, our appreciation for software that works
well, and our strong sense of community.

That is to say, we do not aim to diminish or limit Debian to
"domesticate" it for little people, but to give them the best of what
Debian has to offer so they will grow to the point where they no longer
need our help.

Behind every child user of Debian, we assume there is at least one
older person who uses Debian and helps them with it: a guide, a mentor,
a parent, a relative, a friend. So these people are our users too. It
would be too easy to treat them as our primary audience. After all,
they are the ones reading this web page. They are the ones installing
and maintaining the system. However, they also have other places to get
support in the broader community of Debian and free software. In
thinking about where our energies should be focused, then, we place
children first and their guides second.

> Because I often think, that Debian Jr. could be(come a) part of Debian Edu. In
> Etch Debian Edu came with one preconfigured desktop (which is KDE and rather
> aimed at older students), but now we are in the process of merging with Linex
> and they have used three (iirc) different gnome desktops (configurations),
> one for 1st+2nd grade, one for 3rd+4th grade and another one for older
> students. I'd say that Debian Jr fits in the 0th+1st grade "category" ;-)
>
> What do you think?

While I would not have any problem with that if Edu cared for the
project and preserved the vision I described above, I have always
felt my own ideas for Jr had nothing to do with school and might indeed
by swallowed up by school concerns if we were an arm of the Debian Edu
project. That is why I kept it a distinct project. But we're in poor
shape right now, and the most important thing is that the project go
forward. How would you propose the distinctiveness of Jr be kept? How
do you think children would view Jr if it were an arm of the Edu
project? In Debian Jr, our focus is the child and the fun of
discovery. While some progressive educationists claim to hold to these
values, I worry about how kids would view the Jr project if it were
absorbed into Edu.

Ben

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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-08-25T02:00:42Z

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:15:39AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
> > * Update the appearance of Debian Jr.
> > * Incorporate the winning entry in the logo contest into Debian
> > Jr. and the web site.
>
> Can you give a pointer to that logo please?!

http://www.debianart.org/cchost/?ccm=/debianjrlogocontest/files/Anna/220

Cheers,
--
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Re: RFA: The Debian Jr. project

2008-08-25T01:15:39Z

Hi Ben,

thanks for your work on Debian Jr. and for acknowledging that you don't have
time/a heart for it anymore!

On Thursday 07 August 2008 12:46, Ben Armstrong wrote:
> The time has come for me to give up the [0]Debian Jr. project for
> someone else to lead. While I still have a clear vision for it,

Is that vision written down somewhere?

Because I often think, that Debian Jr. could be(come a) part of Debian Edu. In
Etch Debian Edu came with one preconfigured desktop (which is KDE and rather
aimed at older students), but now we are in the process of merging with Linex
and they have used three (iirc) different gnome desktops (configurations),
one for 1st+2nd grade, one for 3rd+4th grade and another one for older
students. I'd say that Debian Jr fits in the 0th+1st grade "category" ;-)

What do you think?

> Here are just a few ideas I have to move the project forward:

IMHO those ideas fit very well into Debian Edu too, we even have implemented
some of them already :)

> * Update the appearance of Debian Jr.
> * Incorporate the winning entry in the logo contest into Debian
> Jr. and the web site.

Can you give a pointer to that logo please?!

regards,
Holger

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Re: New name: Call for opinions

2008-08-21T16:30:59Z

Hi,

from my blog:

blogging (1-182) life; title=Custom Debian Distributions shall now be called...

* Debian Integrated Solutions. (DIS, pronounced "dish".)

* Or at least, that's what seems to become the result of [1 this thread] on
the[2 debian-custom] mailinglist (and some RL discussions at DebConf8).

* I've not yet participated in the renaming discussions, at the moment I can
only say what others already said: the terms "custom" and "distribution"
both have several problems and renaming won't be easy. Now that I've said
that, it occurs to me that I do have something to add: renaming established
names is never easy, but can very well be worth the effort, if the
established name is problematic / has shortcomings and the new one is way
better.

* And there I have my doubts. TTBOMK or IME, neither Debian Med nor Debian
Edu qualify as "solutions", but are a (great) basis to build solutions...

* Hmm, I mostly started to write this blog post, to make more people aware of
this discussion and not to add new arguments. This should better be done
on the debian-custom mailinglist. Please reply there :-)

* In not totally unrelated news I'm back in Europe and catching up on my
various backlogs. Tomorrow I plan to connect the harddrive with the
Debconf8 videos and start/continue with that [3 backlog]... If you notice
any problems with the already released videos, please don't tell me, but
put them in that wiki page. Thanks!

[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-custom/2008/08/msg00014.html
[2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-custom/
[3] http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf8/Videoteam/ToDo

-- Holger Levsen <holger@...> Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:42:08 +0200

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Re: New name: Call for opinions

2008-08-19T12:04:26Z

Steffen Moeller wrote:
> Ben Armstrong wrote:

>> Will think on this some more. Maybe a simple rearrangement of the
>> letters, so we can keep the meaning of each of these words but lose the
>> quirky pronunciation and bad association with the slang "dis"? Thus,
>> IDS (Integrated Debian Solutions).
>
> While thinking more ... does it need to be a 3 letter acronym? We could
> call it something very different, like Debian Flower (it came to me since
> it sounds similar (to a non-native speaker) to flavour and is something
> nice growing) or an Adebtation (ouch). Maybe some completely new work would
> do, like, say, "ligys" (hands fell on keyboard and produced that).

I've been following this (as lurker, debian-user only and scientist) and
just this moment the same thought came to me.

DebIS? DebianIS? DebISol?

Or is that too CamelCase for some? ;)

Of course if its too long then it might be shortened in common usage,
making this point somewhat moot...

--
Neil

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Re: New name: Call for opinions

2008-08-19T07:57:09Z

Ben Armstrong wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:05:51 +0200
> Steffen Moeller <steffen_moeller@...> wrote:
>> I never understood
>> though why it was nut just called Special Interest Group (SIG), something that
>> everyone would grasp immediately.
>
> If we were trying to describe something that everyone grasped
> immediately, then using a term that everyone grasped immediately would
> be appropriate. A SIG is a special interest group, but a DIS (CDD) is
> something more (see the proposal for details) which is why it needs a
> special name of its own.

Agreed. It is probably more like: we as a SIG produce a DIS or IDS.
3 letter abbreviations are never fully unerstood at a first read, though,
so maybe an immediate understanding is not overly important.

> Will think on this some more. Maybe a simple rearrangement of the
> letters, so we can keep the meaning of each of these words but lose the
> quirky pronunciation and bad association with the slang "dis"? Thus,
> IDS (Integrated Debian Solutions).

While thinking more ... does it need to be a 3 letter acronym? We could
call it something very different, like Debian Flower (it came to me since
it sounds similar (to a non-native speaker) to flavour and is something
nice growing) or an Adebtation (ouch). Maybe some completely new work would
do, like, say, "ligys" (hands fell on keyboard and produced that).

I recall that Linux once was special for having a logo that is a comic animal,
all those fancy geometric figures suggested were dissed. And we should diss
the common three letter abbreviations of, frankly speaking, a collection
of buzzwords.

Best,

Steffen

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