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battery help
by bjstaff@cc.usu.edu
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I am looking at getting some batteries that will make my 28 mile commute. I have a prestolite MTC4001, and a curtis 1231C, in the old style bug. I would like to run between 120 v and 144 v, because of the DC-DC I have. I would like to have some battery recommendations. I have heard the suggestion that T-105 would be good, but that might be getting a bit on the heavy side for my car. I think that I could fit 1200 lbs of batteries. I at one point considered 30 XHS, but saw on the evalbum, someone had a bad experience. Does anyone else have any experience? I have heard that some have bad experience with the 8V batteries, but others like it.
My requirements: 28 mile commute consistent for the next 4 months. After that, it will be no more than 10 miles. But occasionally I would still like to be able to drive the 30 miles or so. What are good batteries to use. And if you know of good prices, I would appreciate that as well. Thanks, Brian ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/ _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by Bob Bath
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Hi,
Don't know if your 28 mi. commute is in warm, or cold weather, or both. I'm running 144V of US Battery 8V, and they would definitely take you the distance, no matter what the weather. Whether the bug could handle the weight... that's another matter. Best of luck with your decision. Sincerely, --- "bjstaff@..." <bjstaff@...> wrote: > I am looking at getting some batteries that will > make my 28 mile commute. I have a prestolite > MTC4001, and a curtis 1231C, in the old style bug. > I would like to run between 120 v and 144 v, because > of the DC-DC I have. I would like to have some > battery recommendations. I have heard the > suggestion that T-105 would be good, but that might > be getting a bit on the heavy side for my car. I > think that I could fit 1200 lbs of batteries. I at > one point considered 30 XHS, but saw on the evalbum, > someone had a bad experience. Does anyone else have > any experience? I have heard that some have bad > experience with the 8V batteries, but others like > it. > > My requirements: 28 mile commute consistent for the > next 4 months. After that, it will be no more than > 10 miles. But occasionally I would still like to be > able to drive the 30 miles or so. > > What are good batteries to use. And if you know of > good prices, I would appreciate that as well. > > Thanks, > Brian > ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - > http://webmail.usu.edu/ > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html ____ __/__|__\ __ =D-------/ - - \ 'O'-----'O'-' Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by Roland Wiench
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Let say a set of batteries in your rig uses about 2 AH per mile, so to go 28
miles, this would required a minimum of 56 AH battery if you want to discharge it down to 100% DOD which is not good. It is best to keep at or above 50% DOD, so this now makes the battery AH at 112 AH. But, a EV is not normally driven at the 20 hour AH rate, meaning a 220 AH battery would have to be discharge at no more then 11 amps per hour for 20 hours. The T-105 battery is rated for 225 AH, and at 75 amps it has a reserved capacity of 115 minutes. The more amps you draw from the battery, the amount of reserved minutes is reduce, thus the AH becomes: 115 mins / 60 = 1.9 hrs 1.9 hrs x 75 amps = 142 AH Discharging this type of battery to 50% DOD is about 71 AH. A EV using 2 AH per mile, will be about a 35 miles range. To get 2 AH per mile, you would have to drive non-stop, not stopping and acceleration at each light, no hill climbing or grades and stay under 75 battery amps. But normally you may be as high as 4 AH per mile at times, so lets say the average is about 3 AH per mile. Then your range may be 71/3= 24 miles at 50% D0D or average of (35+24)/2 = 29 miles. Looks like you will just make it with a 225 AH battery. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: <bjstaff@...> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:00 AM Subject: [EVDL] battery help > I am looking at getting some batteries that will make my 28 mile commute. > I have a prestolite MTC4001, and a curtis 1231C, in the old style bug. I > would like to run between 120 v and 144 v, because of the DC-DC I have. I > would like to have some battery recommendations. I have heard the > suggestion that T-105 would be good, but that might be getting a bit on > the heavy side for my car. I think that I could fit 1200 lbs of > batteries. I at one point considered 30 XHS, but saw on the evalbum, > someone had a bad experience. Does anyone else have any experience? I > have heard that some have bad experience with the 8V batteries, but others > like it. > > My requirements: 28 mile commute consistent for the next 4 months. After > that, it will be no more than 10 miles. But occasionally I would still > like to be able to drive the 30 miles or so. > > What are good batteries to use. And if you know of good prices, I would > appreciate that as well. > > Thanks, > Brian > ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/ > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by Lee Hart
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bjstaff@... wrote:
> I am looking at getting some batteries that will make my 28 mile > commute... Prestolite MTC4001, Curtis 1231C, in the old style bug... > 120-144v... I would like to have some battery recommendations. You've had lots of good comments so far. I can add a few. 6v golf cart batteries would be great. They can easily meet your range requirements. They last a long time, and will give you the lowest cost per mile. But they are pretty heavy for a bug; 120-144v worth is 1200-1600 lbs. 8v golf cart batteries should also work well. The range would be less, but with care can still make your commute (avoid fast acceleration and high speed driving). Cost per mile will be a little higher; they cost less initially, but more than make up for it with shorter life. They will be lighter, at 1000-1200 lbs. 12v batteries like the 30XHS would be a poor choice. Life will be very short, and it's unlikely they would give you the range you seek unless you drive very slow and conservatively. The Curtis 1231 is easily capable of drawing enough battery current to shorten the life of your batteries. I'd suggest turning its current limit pot (on the side of the case behind the screw) all the way down to keep yourself from inadvertently ruining the batteries by overdoing it. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by EVDL Administrator
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On 16 Aug 2007 at 7:00, bjstaff@... wrote:
> I am looking [for] batteries that will make my 28 mile commute. Is that 28mi one way, or round-trip? Can you charge at work? If yes, it'll be MUCH easier. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by storm connors
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I went through the same agony trying to figure out how to power the Suzuki.
It is a small vehicle like your bug. I ended up with the Goldilocks decision of 18 8v golf cart batteries for a total weight of 3,030 pounds. I am finding for myself what the rest already know. The whole effect depends on how you drive it. Last weekend I went 33 miles on 99 amp hours. There was still capacity left. This is on very hilly terrain. I avoid going over 200 battery amps if possible. On some of the local hills it's tough, but the right foot can be trained. OTOH, 70mph and jackrabit starts can take me over 5 amp hours per mile with, I expect, a corresponding drop in battery life. Anyway, you will probably come to the same conclusion I did. 120-144v of 8v FLAs. Plan not to abuse them. On 8/16/07, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote: > > bjstaff@... wrote: > > I am looking at getting some batteries that will make my 28 mile > > commute... Prestolite MTC4001, Curtis 1231C, in the old style bug... > > 120-144v... I would like to have some battery recommendations. > > You've had lots of good comments so far. I can add a few. > > 6v golf cart batteries would be great. They can easily meet your range > requirements. They last a long time, and will give you the lowest cost > per mile. But they are pretty heavy for a bug; 120-144v worth is > 1200-1600 lbs. > > 8v golf cart batteries should also work well. The range would be less, > but with care can still make your commute (avoid fast acceleration and > high speed driving). Cost per mile will be a little higher; they cost > less initially, but more than make up for it with shorter life. They > will be lighter, at 1000-1200 lbs. > > 12v batteries like the 30XHS would be a poor choice. Life will be very > short, and it's unlikely they would give you the range you seek unless > you drive very slow and conservatively. > > The Curtis 1231 is easily capable of drawing enough battery current to > shorten the life of your batteries. I'd suggest turning its current > limit pot (on the side of the case behind the screw) all the way down to > keep yourself from inadvertently ruining the batteries by overdoing it. > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > -- http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059 http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/ Storm _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by EVDL Administrator
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On 16 Aug 2007 at 10:29, bjstaff@... wrote:
> It is 28 miles round trip. I should be able to charge at the halfway point as > well. > > What is your suggestion on batteries? If you can get one-third of the vehicle weight in golf car batteries, you'll have a practical 40 mile range at moderate spees. This should be plenty to handle your commute even if you can't charge during the day. Voltage is unimportant for range. If your empty glider weighs, say, 1600 lb, figure 800-900 lb of lead. That's 12 to 14 golf car batteries. Then, in an ideal world, you'd choose your controller and motor to operate on 72 - 84 volts and produce around 40kW to provide adequate acceleration performance. With a DC series motor, this would mean a 500 to 600 amp controller. Since you already have the controller and motor, your choices are more limited. I think 72v is too low for a 1231C. You might consider using 15 8- volt golf car batteries. They're a decent compromise between 6v life and 12v voltage. Don't draw more than 375 amps from them if you can help it. This would be 45kW, which should be more than enough for 1960s VW Bug performance. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by John A. Evans - N0HJ
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Hi David et al.,
I have a question about your statement that voltage is unimportant for range. I realize that providing current determines range (as long as you can provide X amps, you can keep going) and that voltage equates to speed. However, doesn't adding additional series batteries (like going from say, 96V to 108V) add capacity and thus increase range? Since you have more batteries/lead, don't they provide more capacity and hence more range? It is certainly easier for 18 6volt golf cart batteries to provide, say, 200 amps than it is for 16 6volt batteries. I've heard folks argue that adding batteries won't give extra range, so I thought I'd ask for clarification. tnx, john David Roden wrote: > Voltage is unimportant for range. _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by Joseph T.
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John,
I know where you are coming from, but I think you might be incorrect. (sorry!) Here's a run down: More amp-HOURS is what provides more range. An amp-HOUR is one amp running for one hour, so more amp-hours means that the battery can run longer, and therefore give you more range. Adding more batteries, or making the battery cells larger will increase range. Now, when you add more batteries you do increase voltage and range. However, you can have a battery pack with more volts have less range than a battery pack with LESS volts. How? The battery with less voltage can have more amp-hours, and because it has more amp-hours, and therefore a longer running time, it gives the vehicle more range. You can though, increase range by adding more batteries, which also gives you more voltage. I think a better, and easier way, to measure how far battery pack will take you is simply with kilowatt-hours. On 8/16/07, John A. Evans - N0HJ <jaevans@...> wrote: > Hi David et al., > > I have a question about your statement that voltage is unimportant for > range. I realize that providing current determines range (as long as > you can provide X amps, you can keep going) and that voltage equates to > speed. However, doesn't adding additional series batteries (like going > from say, 96V to 108V) add capacity and thus increase range? Since you > have more batteries/lead, don't they provide more capacity and hence > more range? It is certainly easier for 18 6volt golf cart batteries to > provide, say, 200 amps than it is for 16 6volt batteries. I've heard > folks argue that adding batteries won't give extra range, so I thought > I'd ask for clarification. > > tnx, > john > > David Roden wrote: > > Voltage is unimportant for range. > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by Morgan LaMoore
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Joe,
I'd disagree. If you're using a battery with higher voltage, the controller can use a lower duty cycle to get the same speed. Lower duty cycle means less average current drawn from the batteries. Less current drawn from the batteries means longer range. In an ideal world, they would trade off perfectly, and your range would depend on only capacity (in Watt-hours, not amp-hours). Of course, the real world has inefficiencies and imperfections that mess with things. At higher currents, you lose much more power in the wires (I^2R losses); higher voltage at lower currents lowers these losses. At higher voltages, you may get more iron losses from the magnetics (depending on type of motor), or the motor controller may be less efficient if it is running at a very low duty cycle. So you have to find a balance between voltage and current. You don't see many EV's putting 15 6V batteries in parallel! What matters is energy storage, not just amp storage. Energy is what makes the world go. -Morgan LaMoore On 8/16/07, Joseph T. <jat1793@...> wrote: > > John, > > I know where you are coming from, but I think you might be > incorrect. (sorry!) Here's a run down: > > More amp-HOURS is what provides more range. An amp-HOUR is > one amp running for one hour, so more amp-hours means that the battery > can run longer, and therefore give you more range. > > Adding more batteries, or making the battery cells larger > will increase range. Now, when you add more batteries you do increase > voltage and range. However, you can have a battery pack with more > volts have less range than a battery pack with LESS volts. How? The > battery with less voltage can have more amp-hours, and because it has > more amp-hours, and therefore a longer running time, it gives the > vehicle more range. You can though, increase range by adding more > batteries, which also gives you more voltage. > > I think a better, and easier way, to measure how far battery pack > will take you is simply with kilowatt-hours. > > On 8/16/07, John A. Evans - N0HJ <jaevans@...> wrote: > > Hi David et al., > > > > I have a question about your statement that voltage is unimportant for > > range. I realize that providing current determines range (as long as > > you can provide X amps, you can keep going) and that voltage equates to > > speed. However, doesn't adding additional series batteries (like going > > from say, 96V to 108V) add capacity and thus increase range? Since you > > have more batteries/lead, don't they provide more capacity and hence > > more range? It is certainly easier for 18 6volt golf cart batteries to > > provide, say, 200 amps than it is for 16 6volt batteries. I've heard > > folks argue that adding batteries won't give extra range, so I thought > > I'd ask for clarification. > > > > tnx, > > john > > > > David Roden wrote: > > > Voltage is unimportant for range. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > For subscription options, see > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > > > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by EVDL Administrator
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> I realize that providing current determines range
Not quite. Current gives you torque and torque provides acceleration. > voltage equates to speed It depends on the situation. Sometimes this happens. Not always. Voltage is not the only factor influencing top speed. A motor and controller system can be designed to give you almost any top speed from almost any voltage. That's why I say the best way to design an EV is to start by determing what battery will serve your needs, then design the rest of the drive system to work with the battery. > Since you have more batteries/lead, don't they provide more > capacity and hence more range? Again, there are various factors in play. But in general, lead is your fuel; more of it gives you more range. You can get more lead by using more batteries. You can also get more lead by using fewer batteries, but larger ones. Someone mentioned amp-hours as proportional to range. This isn't quite right either, unless voltage is held constant. Range is influenced by Watt- hours of energy storage. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by John A. Evans - N0HJ
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Thanks David and all,
I was really just looking for confirmation that adding two additional batteries to the voltsrabbit design would boost the range. Of course, I should know that I really need to be correct and explicit in my terminology when I ask questions here. Thanks again, John _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by Joseph T.
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"I was really just looking for confirmation that adding two additional
batteries to the voltsrabbit design would boost the range." Adding two batteries will definitely give you more range. If you'd like to mess around with different EV configurations you can go to evconvert.com for their EV calculator. On 8/17/07, John A. Evans - N0HJ <jaevans@...> wrote: > Thanks David and all, > > I was really just looking for confirmation that adding two additional > batteries to the voltsrabbit design would boost the range. Of course, I > should know that I really need to be correct and explicit in my > terminology when I ask questions here. > > Thanks again, > John > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by joe-22
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Wait a minute, guys - as has been stated before, adding batteries will NOT
necessarily give you more range! It will give you somewhat better performance, all else being equal. The amp-hours remains the same for any number of batteries connected in series, and the additional weight will negate most of the benefit beyond a certain point. Batteries connected in parallel will give more range, batteries connected in series will boost performance. Joseph H. Strubhar Web: www.gremcoinc.com E-mail: joe@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph T. " <jat1793@...> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery help > "I was really just looking for confirmation that adding two additional > batteries to the voltsrabbit design would boost the range." > > Adding two batteries will definitely give you more range. If you'd > like to mess around with different EV configurations you can go to > evconvert.com for their EV calculator. > > > On 8/17/07, John A. Evans - N0HJ <jaevans@...> wrote: >> Thanks David and all, >> >> I was really just looking for confirmation that adding two additional >> batteries to the voltsrabbit design would boost the range. Of course, I >> should know that I really need to be correct and explicit in my >> terminology when I ask questions here. >> >> Thanks again, >> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> For subscription options, see >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev >> > > _______________________________________________ > For subscription options, see > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev > _______________________________________________ For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev |
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Re: battery help
by damon henry
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Joseph, You've been working too hard this summer. Adding batteries and leaving everything else the same will always add range. In fact in the case of lead acid batteries the range can be determined almost exclusively by how much weight in batteries you are carrying. Whether they are in series or parallel makes very little difference. BTW - I should be down at the track watching the Nedra guys run right now, but it's looking like a possible rain out tonight. I called Wayland about a half hour ago and they had cars lined up on the track trying to keep it dry hoping the rain will pass. damon> Wait a minute, guys - as has been stated before, adding batteries will NOT > necessarily give you more range! It will give you somewhat better > performance, all else being equal. The amp-hours remains the same for any > number of batteries connected in series, and the additional weight will > negate most of the benefit beyond a certain point.> > Batteries connected in parallel will give more range, batteries connected in > series will boost performance.> > Joseph H. Strubhar> _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's ea |
