Nabble - Woodandbrass

Site down

2008-04-25T02:52:14Z

Please note: the Wood and Brass mailing list has been down a few weeks now. The first week was some sort of server problem at kjsl.com. The last few weeks I have been on vacation and decided to halt all messages as I am no longer interested in managing the site. I have been looking into how to transfer the site to someone else. If you like to email me privately, please do so at dcolucci AT aol.com

thank you.

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Lewis Family II from 1852

2008-03-20T11:54:18Z

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

Lewis Family

2008-03-20T10:01:46Z

A relative of the Lewis Family has been working on documenting the family history - these notes are private - he said I could share with others of collecting interest

William Lewis - Chronology - City Directory Listings, etc.

1840 - W. & W. H. Lewis, suppliers of daguerrian materials, NYC (John S. Craig).

1844 – W. and W. H. Lewis, Daguerrian rooms, 142 Chatham St, opposite the (Chatham) theater. NYC Directory. Also 63 ½ Division St. Offered instruction in the art, and apparatus for sale. Also advertised as manufacturers of daguerrian apparatus, galvanic batteries, and hat pressing machines.

1844 - 63 ½ Division Street (h?) (John S. Craig).

1844-5 – W. and W.H. Lewis, machinists, 142 Chatham Street, NYC. Fancy store, 63 ½ Division St, NYC selling Daguerrian apparatus. Daguerreotypes, 144 Chatham St.

1846 – An ad stated, "Premium manufactory of daguerreotype apparatus, hat pressing machines, etc... hand, brim and fluting irons, patent heel plates, galvanic batteries, etc." It also noted they were the first regularly established manufacturer of daguerreotype apparatus in the United States.

?1847 - Lewis & Co., Daguerrian, 74 Chambers St, NYC, NY. The location was later occupied bt S. K. Barton.

1848 W. and W. H. Lewis, Daguereotypes, Instruction, Importing and Manufacture. 142 and/or 144 Chatham St, NYC.

1848-52 – W. and W. H. Lewis, machinists, 142 Chatham St, NYC.

1849 - W. and W. H. Lewis, First Patent - # 6431 - Improvement in Daguerreotype Apparatus for Gilding Plates

1849 - W. and W. H. Lewis, US patent # 6819 - Apparatus for Holding Daguerreotype Plates

1850-1 - h 21 Eldridge St, NYC, NY (John S. Craig)

1851- W. Lewis, general superintendent; W. H. Lewis – salesman.

Early 1850's - Briefly owned (opened Nov 1851) a manufacturing plant at Daguerreville, NY, on the Quassaick Creek (today the border of New Windsor and Newburgh), employing 60-70 people. [In 1818, Townsend ran a cannon mill there, which produced the first cannon made in the US. In 1859, the mills included J. Longking, Daguerrian instruments.] It was reported as closed and sold in the May 1, 1852 issue of Humphrey's Journal. This may have been the factory (mill) once used by Peter Townsend to produce the first cannon in NYS. It was later owned by L. S. Sterrit and used as a pin factory, failing in early 1850. It was later owned by Joseph Longking and Aaron F. Palmer for the manufacture of Photographic instruments, cases and equipment, but this also failed. In 1862, it was converted to a flour mill, but was destroyed by fire in 1867. The family continued in business on Chatham Square into the 1870's. Trouw's N.Y.C. Directory

1852, May 1 - Announced the closing of the Lewis plant in Newburgh (Marder, HJ, p. 28)

1852, Apr - firm (what part?) sold to Gardner, Harrison & Co. (John S. Craig).

1853-4 - W & W. H. Lewis, 63 Elizabeth Street, NYC, manufacturers of daguerrian apparatus. (John S. Craig) (Marder)

1854-5 - William and William H. Lewis at 63 Elizabeth St., NYC (home or business ?). (Trow’s NYC Dir).

1855 - h 187 Allen St (John S. Craig).

1856 - W & W. H. Lewis, machinist, 63 Elizabeth (John S. Craig).

1858 – Lewis, William, machinist, h. Portland av n Myrtle av (Brooklyn City Directory, lain, BPL).

1859 – W. and W. H. Lewis – US patent # 6431 – apparatus for gilding daguerreotype plates. See patent list for later patents.

1860 - W & W. H. Lewis, machinist, manufacturers of daguerrian apparatus, 63 Elizabeth (John S. Craig).

ca. 1860 Moved to Williamsburgh.

1854-5, 1861 - William and William H. Lewis at 63 Elizabeth St., NYC (home or business ?). (Trow’s NYC Dir).

1862 - William Lewis, photographic apparatus, 63 Elizabeth, h Portland Av and Myrtle Av, Brooklyn (Trow’s NYC Directory). son ?

1864 - William Lewis, photographer, 63 Elizabeth, NY, h 119 Portland Av. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Directory). See separate file "Lewis Family and Early Photography in America", for additional information. son?

1860 - Wm. & Wm. H. Lewis - Last Patent together, # 28,876, Improvement in Photographic Baths

d. 1880

1880-1 Lewis, Mary J., wid William, h 129 N Portland av (NYMA) Brooklyn City

US Census

1870 - Lewis, William, age 70, W, M, Manuf of Photo Inst, $2000, $200, b. Wales; wife, Mary J., age 70, F, W, keeping house, b. England. Brooklyn, 20-WD, Boarding house. Children: Hannah, age 42, Eliza, age 40, Margaret, age 32, Josephine, age 29, Caroline, age 16, Elizabeth, age 15. [Whose children are the last 2?]

William Henry Lewis - City Directory Listings

? 1852-3 Ship Chandlers – Lewis, W. H. & Co – p, 291-2 - Wilson’s Business Directory of NYC, published annually, John F. Trow, Publisher and Printer, 49 Ann St, NY, 50 cents

1853-5 William H. Lewis, Hester Street, corner of Elizabeth, daguerrian, h. 21 Eldridge. (John S. Craig).

1858/9 Lewis, William, machinist, h Portland av n Myrtle av, Downtown Brooklyn. (Lain, BPL)

? 1858/9 Lewis, William H, speculator, h 603 3d (West of Prospect Park (?)). (Lains, BPL)

1859/60 Lewis, William, machinist, h 603 3d. (Lains, BPL)

? 1862/3 Lewis, William H., clerk, P.O. h 100 Prince, Downtown Brooklyn (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1863/4 Lewis, William, photographer, 63 Elizabeth, NY, h 119 Portland av, Downtown Brooklyn. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1864/5 Lewis, William, photographer, h 119 Portland av. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

?1865/6 Lewis, William H., clerk, Montague n Court. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1865/6 Lewis, William, manufacturer, 4 Howard, NY, (1 Block N of Canal), h 109 Portland av. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1871, Sep 23 - William H., US Patent 119,090 for posing chair assigned to Scovill Mfg. Co. (Marder)

1876-7 Lewis, William H., machinist, h 683 Leonard (NYMA) Brooklyn City (Greenpoint).

1877-8 Lewis, William H., machinist, h 683 Leonard (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1878-9 Lewis, William H., machinist, h 181 Calyer (Greenpoint) (NYMA) Lain’s Brooklyn City

1879-80 Lewis, William H., machinist, 181 Calyer (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1879 - d. ?

Henry J. Lewis - City Directory Listings

1850’s - 152 Chatham St, NYC, sold and manufactured photographic supplies. (Marder)

1852 - 176 Centre St, NYC, NY, dealer in Daguerrian apparatus. Manufactured and sold photographic supplies.

1852-3 – Partnership as Lewis and Snyder (Sayder?) (W.H.?). 152 Chatham Street, NYC.

1852-3 Lewis & Snyder, W. H. (or Sayder), Daguerreotype Apparatus, 176 Centre (Wilson’s Business Directory of NYC, published annually, John F. Trow, Publisher and Printer, 49 Ann St, NY, 50 cents)

1854 - Manufacturing Thompson Life Preserver seats. Manufacturing felt hats.

1854 – Daguerrian apparatus manufacturer, Kent St near Union Ave, Kings Co, NY.

1855-6 - Lewis, Henry J., manuf, 96 Sulfolk, NY [Hagstrom, NYC p. 1, E-20; N of E Broadway, near Williamsburg Bridge approach]; h Kent St n Union Av (Brooklyn City Directory) (NYMA) (Marder, Brooklyn Dir)

1856-7 Lewis, Henry J., manuf, NY; h. Kent St n. Union A, Williamsburg, Brooklyn, (Hope and Henderson Brooklyn Directory) (NYMA)

About 1856 - Operated a photographic materials manufacturing plant at 138 First Street, (Williamsburg, or South Brooklyn) Brooklyn. (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1857-8 - Lewis, Henry J., tradesman (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1858-9 Lewis, Henry J., Daguerrian apparatus manufacturer, 1^st n S 4^th, h Kent n Union av. Williamsburg, (Lain’s Brooklyn City Directory, BPL).

1859 - Henry J. Lewis - US patent # 23, 428, living in Brooklyn, Camera Stand

1858-62 – Daguerrian apparatus manufacturer First St near South Fourth St (or av), (South Brooklyn?) Brooklyn, NY; h Kent Street (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1859 - Advertised himself as a manufacturer of all kinds of ambrotype and daguerreotype apparatus and as a dealer in chemicals and other photographic materials at 152 Chatham St, NYC.

1862 - Lewis, Henry J., daguerreotype apparatus maker, 1^st n S 2^nd, h Kent n Union Av (Lain’s Brooklyn City Directory, p. 253); h Kent n Union Av, Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY (1863 Lain’s Brooklyn City Directory).

1863, Sep - Factory in Williamsburg burned out.

1863-4 - Lewis, Henry, framemaker, h Kent n Union Av (Lain’s Brooklyn City Directory, BPL) (Marder).

1864-5 - Lewis, henry J., photo-optician, Freeman nr Union. (Marder).

1865 - He moved his plant to Greenpoint, Brooklyn. He designed and made a camera box with removable inserts to take extra photographs, to circumvent Southworth and Wing patents, which used a movable plate holder. Lawsuits apparently doomed this camera.

1866-7 - Lewis, Henry J., photographer, Freeman nr Union. (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1867-8 - Lewis, Henry J., manufacturer, Freeman nr Union, h, Kent nr Union (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1869-70 - Lewis, Henry J., cabinetmaker, Freeman nr Franklin, (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1872-5 - Lewis, Henry J., photographic apparatus maker, 132 Freeman (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1875 - Henry J. Lewis, US Patent # 165,241, to E. & H. T. Anthony, living Greenpoint, Improvement in Stereoscopes.

1875-6 - Lewis, Henry J., Photographer, Kent and West, h 96 Orchard. (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1876-7 – None – Brooklyn

1877-8 – None – Brooklyn

1878-9 Lewis, Henry, photographer, h 107 Huron (Greenpoint) (NYMA) Brooklyn City (Marder, Brooklyn Dir).

1879-80 Lewis, Henry J., insts mkr, h 107 Huron (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1880-1 Lewis, Henry J., photographer, h 107 Huron (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1881-2 Lewis, Henry J., photographer, 127 Manhattan av, h 115 Noble (Greenpoint) (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1888-9 Lewis, Henry J., photo materials, 103 Milton (Brooklyn Dir, Ancestry.com)

1889-90 Lewis, Henry J., photo apparatus, 103 Milton (Brooklyn Dir, Ancestry.com)

d. 1905, age 86

He conducted his camera making business under the name Lewis Manufacturing Company until 1867, when his son, William H., assumed control and conducted the business under the name William H. Lewis. During the

1870's - He received a patent for a stereoscope and worked with his son William Henry. William H. continued in the business with the help of his father until

1890 - Henry J. retired.

1891, Henry J. is listed in the Brooklyn Directory, as a photographic artist, residing at 103 Milton St, Brooklyn.

1893 - William H. sold this business, in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, (having employed 87 people), and having been sick for 6 months (see # 121.).

Richard A. Lewis - City Directory Listings

1839 gallery was established.

1852-3 Lewis, Richard A., 142 Chatham, Daguerreotype Likenesses - Wilson’s Business Directory of NYC, published annually, John F. Trow, Publisher and Printer, 49 Ann St, NY, 50 cents

1855 Lewis & Holt. (John S. Craig).

1858 Lewis, Richard A., daguerreotypes, 142 Chatham, NY, h 55 Cumberland. (Brooklyn City Directory, Lain, BPL).

1858/9 Lewis, Richard A., Daguerrian artist, 42 (sic) Chatham, NY, h 55 Cumberland.

? 1858/9 Lewis, Margaret I., h 55 Cumberland. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1859/60 Lewis, Richard A., artist, 142 Chatham, NY, h 96 Cumberland. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1859/60 Lewis, Margaret, wid, h r 49 Douglas. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1859/60 Lewis, Margaret, wid, h 137 S 2d. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1860 Lewis, R. A. advertised Lewis and Holt collodion for sale. [probably George W. A. Holt, a Daguerrian in NYC, 1841-56. Ca 1841 was listed a Lewis & Holt. (John S. Craig).

1861, removed his business from 142 Chatham St., NYC to 152 Chatham St. Richard A. Lewis, 152 Chatham opp National Theater, “Photographs, Amberotypes, and Daguerreotypes, Lewis and Holt’s celebrated positive and negative colloidions, wholesale and retail (ad - 1862, Wilson’s NY Commercial Directory, p. 51). R. A. Lewis announces removal from 142 to 152 Chatham St (his only gallery at that time) nr Mellon, Banks and Wilcox’s Bldgs. (1862, ½-page ad) (Brooklyn City Dir, Marder).

1860/1 Lewis, Richard A., Daguerrian, 152 Chatham, NY, h 96 Cumberland. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1863/4 Lewis, Richard A., daguerreotypes 152 Chatham, NY, h 96 Cumberland (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1864 Richard A. Lewis, daguerreotype, 152 Chatham, NY, h 96 Cumberland (1864, Lain’s Brooklyn City Directory).

1864/5 Lewis, Richard, 96 Cumberland. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1864/5 Lewis, Richard, artist’s materials, 4 Beekman, NY, h 7 Jefferson. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL). (son?)

1865/6 Lewis, Richard A., artist, h 96 Cumberland, (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1866/7 Lewis, R. A., photographer, 100 Chatham, NY, h 96 Cumberland. (Lain’s Brooklyn City Dir, BPL).

1869/70, Lewis, Richard A. – same ad as below (NYMA)

1871-2 “Lewis, Richard A, photographer, est 1839,(2^nd Av. 3^rd Av, E Bwy, Bleecker St, & New Bowery cars pass the door) 158, 160, 162, CHATHAM, h. 126 Cumberland, B’klyn” NYC Directory (NYMA)

1872-3 Lewis, Richard A. – same ad as above (NYMA)

1873-4 “Lewis, Richard A., Photographer, (established 1939) 158, 160, 162 Chatham St, 2d & 3d Av, E Broadway, Bleecker, New Bowery & Grand Central Depot cars pass the door h 126 Cumberland B’klyn” [Hagstrom, NYC p. 20, D13, near Fort Greene Park]

1873-4 - Lewis Gallery advertised at in business for over 30 years, located at 160 Chatham, 2^nd and 3^rd Ave, E. Broadway, Bleker Street, New Bowery, and Grand Central, NYC (Trow’s Dir)

1874-5 Lewis, Richard A – same ad as above (NYMA)

1874-5 - Richard A. Lewis - Lewis Gallery, estab 1839, 160 Chatham, 2^nd and 3^rd Ave, East Broadway, Bleeker Street, New Bowery, Grand Central. (Marder - Trow’s Dir)

1875-6 Lewis, Richard A., photographer, (estab 1839), 158, 160, 162, Chatham St 2 av, 3 av, E7 Broadway, Bleecker St, New Bowery, and Grand Central depot cars pass the door, f 126 Cumberland, Brooklyn. (NYMA) Trow’s NYC – P 10, Full Page Ad

1881 - Richard A. Lewis, in business over 30 years, 160 Chatham, h. 196 Cumberland, Brooklyn. Gallery valued at $10,000, free and clear. (Marder - R. G. Dun & Co, NYC, 1881, Vol 373, p. 1541)

1876-7 Lewis, Richard A., photographer, 158 Chatham Street, NYC, h 126 Cumberland (NYMA) Brooklyn City - Also listed under photography

1877-8 Lewis, Richard A., 160 Chatham, h 126 Cumberland (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1878-9 Lewis, Richard A., photographer, 158, 160 Chatham Street, NYC, h 126 Cumberland (NYMA) Lain’s Brooklyn City. ½ page ad next page, to right.

1879-80 Lewis, Richard A., photographer, h 126 Cumberland (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1880-1 Lewis, Richard A., photographer, 160 Chatham, NYC, h 126 Cumberland (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1881 Lewis, Richard A., 160 Chatham St. h 196 Cumberland St., Brooklyn.

1881-2 Lewis, Richard A., photographer, 162 Chatham, NYC, h 126 Cumberland (NYMA) Brooklyn City

1883 Richard A. Lewis, photographs, 160 Chatham, h 126 Cumberland, Brooklyn (1883, Trouw’s NYC Directory, p. 994).

d. 1891, age 71.

1891, Sep 23 - Remained a practicing photographer until his death.

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

Re: 2nd Quality 2-lens camera, radial drive

2008-03-20T09:02:58Z

Yes I am out here. Milan, thanks for sharing. Your knowledge is amazing, as is your treasure trove of material. In case you stumble across it, I am still searching for a history of Shew, and a bio/obit of J.F. Shew. I will send M&M's for these you come across them.

Cheers,

Fred

In a message dated 3/20/2008 11:16:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, milan.zahorcak@... writes:

I would abbreviate "My, we are a quiet group" to "Myaaqg" but that sounds like the Malay curry I made last night . . . and am paying the price for this morning. I wouldn't want to think of the group in that way.

So, I'm getting ready to install a much larger back-up hard drive and I'm trying to clean up my image files . . . 26,451 images since 1998 . . . not much question of whether digital is going to supplant silver-based technology any more, is there?

After a while I give up, and I dump all the loose and uncatalogued images into a Misc folder which is now 8x larger than any other image folder I have. BUT, in the process I come across some images that I shot of a borrowed volume of "The Philadelphia Photographer" (1866 thru 1869) back in 2005 and I catch something that I missed the first 1000 times I've looked at them.

And I made a link - remarkable the way the universe works.

Back in August of 2007, I asked about the the term "radial drive" and asked if anyone had any illustrations. There were very few.

Now we skip ahead to last week, and Greg asked about "2nd Quality" cameras and he provided a link to his 2-lens AOC John Stock.

Well, back in February, 1866, the Lewis Photographic Works ran an ad in the Philly Photog for "Apparatus used by photographers" and they provided illustrations of a burnisher and a tripod . . . but mounted on that tripod is a camera . . . a camera that has two lenses . . . a camera that has two radial-drive lenses . . .

I've combined the Greg's camera and the ad at this link:

http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/milanpub/2lens-Camera.jpg

Pretty cool.

Other links to explore: I think Lewis had some relationship to C C Harrison; C C Harrison most definitely had a relationship with John Stock; Harrison and Stock were at one time owned by AOC . . . someone else take it from there.

And all this before coffee this AM.

mz

PS: the lenses in the Lewis ad look very much like the late model Harrison "narrow body" radials, after about serial #6000 or so.

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

2nd Quality 2-lens camera, radial drive

2008-03-20T07:38:04Z

Message

I would abbreviate "My, we are a quiet group" to "Myaaqg" but that sounds like the Malay curry I made last night . . . and am paying the price for this morning. I wouldn't want to think of the group in that way.

So, I'm getting ready to install a much larger back-up hard drive and I'm trying to clean up my image files . . . 26,451 images since 1998 . . . not much question of whether digital is going to supplant silver-based technology any more, is there?

After a while I give up, and I dump all the loose and uncatalogued images into a Misc folder which is now 8x larger than any other image folder I have. BUT, in the process I come across some images that I shot of a borrowed volume of "The Philadelphia Photographer" (1866 thru 1869) back in 2005 and I catch something that I missed the first 1000 times I've looked at them.

And I made a link - remarkable the way the universe works.

Back in August of 2007, I asked about the the term "radial drive" and asked if anyone had any illustrations. There were very few.

Now we skip ahead to last week, and Greg asked about "2nd Quality" cameras and he provided a link to his 2-lens AOC John Stock.

Well, back in February, 1866, the Lewis Photographic Works ran an ad in the Philly Photog for "Apparatus used by photographers" and they provided illustrations of a burnisher and a tripod . . . but mounted on that tripod is a camera . . . a camera that has two lenses . . . a camera that has two radial-drive lenses . . .

I've combined the Greg's camera and the ad at this link:

http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/milanpub/2lens-Camera.jpg

Pretty cool.

Other links to explore: I think Lewis had some relationship to C C Harrison; C C Harrison most definitely had a relationship with John Stock; Harrison and Stock were at one time owned by AOC . . . someone else take it from there.

And all this before coffee this AM.

PS: the lenses in the Lewis ad look very much like the late model Harrison "narrow body" radials, after about serial #6000 or so.

Re: RE: Offering - Old paper - with the damned link

2008-03-15T19:18:47Z

Man, I'd likely never leave the bathroom if I had that kind of stash,
about the only place in this house a man can get some peace and quiet to
read.

erie

>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Milan Zahorcak [mailto:milan.zahorcak@...]
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:45 PM
> *To:* Wood & Brass
> *Subject:* Offering - Old paper
>
>
> Dear us,
>
> Although still pissy (bad week, wrist hurts, etc), but because I
> am such a nice guy and still love y'all dearly - even if y'all
> never call, never write . . . some more never than others (Ben,
> Geary . . .) . . . fudge, never mind, just makes me even pissier . . .
>
> Anyway, I'm in my periodic "sifting through the detritus" phase
> and have come across a bunch of old paper that isn't doing anyone
> any good sitting in the closet under the stairs.
>
> Since we don't have an official trade day . . . do we??? . . . I'm
> just going offer this stuff to the group, albeit for a price.
>
> I'll probably put most of the other . . . stuff . . . on eBay
> because I'm not that nice a guy, but there are still around 20
> items of so-so stuff that isn't worth listing, but is too cool to
> just throw away. Good for hours of fun reading and a deeper
> understanding of why digital took over so quickly.
>
> So you are welcome to look at the pics, if you have any questions,
> let's ask them off-line:
>
> milan.zahorcak@... <mailto:milan.zahorcak@...>
>
> This batch is available to W&B members who have enough energy to
> respond. Everything is nominal, I dunno maybe $5 each unless I
> feel even pissier later on and then I'll abuse you as best I can.
> You pay for media mail at cost. Interested in the whole thing,
> then make an offer Worst that can happen is . . . well, probably
> the same as above. Just make an offer.
>
> Available for about 24 hours or so, and then it gets used to
> heat the family room.
>
> Everything off-line please so as not to disturb the sleepers.
>
> mz
>
> PS: No, I haven't processed the other stuff yet. Yes, of course,
> it's better than this stuff. No, I'm not sure of how I'm going to
> deal with it. Really is too many MB to upload in a batch.
>
>
>

RE: Offering - Old paper - with the damned link

2008-03-15T17:50:10Z

Message

Yes, Yes . . . I know . . . here's the link.

http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/milanpub/WB-temp/FrameSet.htm

Scheesh, bitch, bitch, bitch . . .

-----Original Message-----
From: Milan Zahorcak [mailto:milan.zahorcak@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:45 PM
To: Wood & Brass
Subject: Offering - Old paper

Dear us,

Although still pissy (bad week, wrist hurts, etc), but because I am such a nice guy and still love y'all dearly - even if y'all never call, never write . . . some more never than others (Ben, Geary . . .) . . . fudge, never mind, just makes me even pissier . . .

Anyway, I'm in my periodic "sifting through the detritus" phase and have come across a bunch of old paper that isn't doing anyone any good sitting in the closet under the stairs.

Since we don't have an official trade day . . . do we??? . . . I'm just going offer this stuff to the group, albeit for a price.

I'll probably put most of the other . . . stuff . . . on eBay because I'm not that nice a guy, but there are still around 20 items of so-so stuff that isn't worth listing, but is too cool to just throw away. Good for hours of fun reading and a deeper understanding of why digital took over so quickly.

So you are welcome to look at the pics, if you have any questions, let's ask them off-line:

milan.zahorcak@...

This batch is available to W&B members who have enough energy to respond. Everything is nominal, I dunno maybe $5 each unless I feel even pissier later on and then I'll abuse you as best I can. You pay for media mail at cost. Interested in the whole thing, then make an offer Worst that can happen is . . . well, probably the same as above. Just make an offer.

Available for about 24 hours or so, and then it gets used to heat the family room.

Everything off-line please so as not to disturb the sleepers.

mz

PS: No, I haven't processed the other stuff yet. Yes, of course, it's better than this stuff. No, I'm not sure of how I'm going to deal with it. Really is too many MB to upload in a batch.

Offering - Old paper

2008-03-15T17:44:44Z

Message

Dear us,

Although still pissy (bad week, wrist hurts, etc), but because I am such a nice guy and still love y'all dearly - even if y'all never call, never write . . . some more never than others (Ben, Geary . . .) . . . fudge, never mind, just makes me even pissier . . .

Anyway, I'm in my periodic "sifting through the detritus" phase and have come across a bunch of old paper that isn't doing anyone any good sitting in the closet under the stairs.

Since we don't have an official trade day . . . do we??? . . . I'm just going offer this stuff to the group, albeit for a price.

I'll probably put most of the other . . . stuff . . . on eBay because I'm not that nice a guy, but there are still around 20 items of so-so stuff that isn't worth listing, but is too cool to just throw away. Good for hours of fun reading and a deeper understanding of why digital took over so quickly.

So you are welcome to look at the pics, if you have any questions, let's ask them off-line:

milan.zahorcak@...

This batch is available to W&B members who have enough energy to respond. Everything is nominal, I dunno maybe $5 each unless I feel even pissier later on and then I'll abuse you as best I can. You pay for media mail at cost. Interested in the whole thing, then make an offer Worst that can happen is . . . well, probably the same as above. Just make an offer.

Available for about 24 hours or so, and then it gets used to heat the family room.

Everything off-line please so as not to disturb the sleepers.

PS: No, I haven't processed the other stuff yet. Yes, of course, it's better than this stuff. No, I'm not sure of how I'm going to deal with it. Really is too many MB to upload in a batch.

RE: American Optical camera - 2nd quailty

2008-03-15T15:34:47Z

Message

Yes, thank you . . . and I encourage everyone else do to the same.

-----Original Message-----
From: woodandbrass-bounces@... [mailto:woodandbrass-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Kent4489@...
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 2:49 PM
To: woodandbrass@...
Subject: Re: [W&B] American Optical camera - 2nd quailty

Hi

I use to have a couple of those lenses but I sold them to some cranky guy named Milan.

Greg

In a message dated 3/15/2008 5:27:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, milan.zahorcak@... writes:

Greg et al,

I don't think "2nd Quality" was meant to be interpreted in the same way that we tend think of it today, as in outlet malls and discount stores. I think it simply referred to the quality of materials and finish used, and not to any sort of defect or flaw or shoddy construction.

1st quality meant "finest materials and finish available." For many photographers, and especially most working photographers, a field camera made of Circassian Walnut with a hand-rubbed oil finish and ermine-skin bellows wasn't worth the 100% premium when an essentially identical camera made of less expensive materials (like mahogany !?) with a varnish finish would do the job.

Early catalogs routinely make the distinction between equipment grades - in fairly obvious terms - and it took a while before we became either sophisticated enough, or jaded enough, or cynical enough, to market EVERYTHING as being the BEST THAT EVER WAS . . . etc.

Simpler times back then, and most folks recognized that some things simply cost more - or less - than others.

"2nd Quality" was just the (now) naive catch-phrase used to describe something that did the job just as well and cost a helluva lot less.

Nowadays, all of our crap is Premium, or Professional, or Ford-tough and we are willing pay more for "Super-Premium" crap because we simply know we are being lied to, and hope that the additional 100% will buy us something that wouldn't fall apart tomorrow.

Yikes! I guess I'm still in a pissy mood.

So? What? There are only three of us on the planet who have Zentmayer lenses?

mz

-----Original Message-----
From: woodandbrass-bounces@... [mailto:woodandbrass-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Greg/Jayne Hillan
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:33 PM
To: Collectors of 19th Century Cameras & Photographica
Subject: Re: RE: [W&B] American Optical camera

Hello Group

I am attaching a picture of the camera and the 2nd Quality marking. The camera was part of the Naylor auction. It was listed as an Anthony. It is stamped on the bed American Optical and the hardware is John Stock patent date 1864.

Since they didn't mass produce these wet plate cameras I wonder what went so wrong with this camera that the decided to mark this way instead of correcting the flaw? I don't suppose you could request a second quality item. Do you think American Optical sent out list to retailers noting that various cameras like this were available?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08119.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08117.jpg

Best

Greg

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Re: no zent lens, but here is an ad

2008-03-15T15:11:33Z

Dan,

Thanks for sharing the ad with us.

Fred

In a message dated 3/15/2008 5:55:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DColucci@... writes:

.

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Re: American Optical camera - 2nd quailty

2008-03-15T14:49:05Z

I use to have a couple of those lenses but I sold them to some cranky guy named Milan.

Greg

In a message dated 3/15/2008 5:27:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, milan.zahorcak@... writes:

Greg et al,

I don't think "2nd Quality" was meant to be interpreted in the same way that we tend think of it today, as in outlet malls and discount stores. I think it simply referred to the quality of materials and finish used, and not to any sort of defect or flaw or shoddy construction.

1st quality meant "finest materials and finish available." For many photographers, and especially most working photographers, a field camera made of Circassian Walnut with a hand-rubbed oil finish and ermine-skin bellows wasn't worth the 100% premium when an essentially identical camera made of less expensive materials (like mahogany !?) with a varnish finish would do the job.

Early catalogs routinely make the distinction between equipment grades - in fairly obvious terms - and it took a while before we became either sophisticated enough, or jaded enough, or cynical enough, to market EVERYTHING as being the BEST THAT EVER WAS . . . etc.

Simpler times back then, and most folks recognized that some things simply cost more - or less - than others.

"2nd Quality" was just the (now) naive catch-phrase used to describe something that did the job just as well and cost a helluva lot less.

Nowadays, all of our crap is Premium, or Professional, or Ford-tough and we are willing pay more for "Super-Premium" crap because we simply know we are being lied to, and hope that the additional 100% will buy us something that wouldn't fall apart tomorrow.

Yikes! I guess I'm still in a pissy mood.

So? What? There are only three of us on the planet who have Zentmayer lenses?

mz

-----Original Message-----
From: woodandbrass-bounces@... [mailto:woodandbrass-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Greg/Jayne Hillan
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:33 PM
To: Collectors of 19th Century Cameras & Photographica
Subject: Re: RE: [W&B] American Optical camera

Hello Group

I am attaching a picture of the camera and the 2nd Quality marking. The camera was part of the Naylor auction. It was listed as an Anthony. It is stamped on the bed American Optical and the hardware is John Stock patent date 1864.

Since they didn't mass produce these wet plate cameras I wonder what went so wrong with this camera that the decided to mark this way instead of correcting the flaw? I don't suppose you could request a second quality item. Do you think American Optical sent out list to retailers noting that various cameras like this were available?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08119.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08117.jpg

Best

Greg

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no zent lens, but here is an ad

2008-03-15T14:31:55Z

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RE: RE: American Optical camera - 2nd quailty

2008-03-15T14:22:33Z

Message

Greg et al,

I don't think "2nd Quality" was meant to be interpreted in the same way that we tend think of it today, as in outlet malls and discount stores. I think it simply referred to the quality of materials and finish used, and not to any sort of defect or flaw or shoddy construction.

1st quality meant "finest materials and finish available." For many photographers, and especially most working photographers, a field camera made of Circassian Walnut with a hand-rubbed oil finish and ermine-skin bellows wasn't worth the 100% premium when an essentially identical camera made of less expensive materials (like mahogany !?) with a varnish finish would do the job.

Early catalogs routinely make the distinction between equipment grades - in fairly obvious terms - and it took a while before we became either sophisticated enough, or jaded enough, or cynical enough, to market EVERYTHING as being the BEST THAT EVER WAS . . . etc.

Simpler times back then, and most folks recognized that some things simply cost more - or less - than others.

"2nd Quality" was just the (now) naive catch-phrase used to describe something that did the job just as well and cost a helluva lot less.

Nowadays, all of our crap is Premium, or Professional, or Ford-tough and we are willing pay more for "Super-Premium" crap because we simply know we are being lied to, and hope that the additional 100% will buy us something that wouldn't fall apart tomorrow.

Yikes! I guess I'm still in a pissy mood.

So? What? There are only three of us on the planet who have Zentmayer lenses?

-----Original Message-----
From: woodandbrass-bounces@... [mailto:woodandbrass-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Greg/Jayne Hillan
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:33 PM
To: Collectors of 19th Century Cameras & Photographica
Subject: Re: RE: [W&B] American Optical camera

Hello Group

I am attaching a picture of the camera and the 2nd Quality marking. The camera was part of the Naylor auction. It was listed as an Anthony. It is stamped on the bed American Optical and the hardware is John Stock patent date 1864.

Since they didn't mass produce these wet plate cameras I wonder what went so wrong with this camera that the decided to mark this way instead of correcting the flaw? I don't suppose you could request a second quality item. Do you think American Optical sent out list to retailers noting that various cameras like this were available?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08119.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08117.jpg

Best

Greg

Re: RE: American Optical camera

2008-03-15T13:32:42Z

Hello Group

I am attaching a picture of the camera and the 2nd Quality marking. The camera was part of the Naylor auction. It was listed as an Anthony. It is stamped on the bed American Optical and the hardware is John Stock patent date 1864.

Since they didn't mass produce these wet plate cameras I wonder what went so wrong with this camera that the decided to mark this way instead of correcting the flaw? I don't suppose you could request a second quality item. Do you think American Optical sent out list to retailers noting that various cameras like this were available?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08119.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a139/JayneH/March08117.jpg

Best

Greg

Re: American Optical camera//Oui

2008-03-14T21:10:13Z

Hi Greg,
I owned a #3 Eclipse with their logo stamped on the front standard marked Eclipse, replacement.

Came close?

Wayne

**************
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Re: American Optical camera

2008-03-14T19:22:49Z

I too would love to see an image, Greg. Please provide same. If these are rare and costly, does anyone have a "second quality" stamp?

Cheers,

Fred

In a message dated 3/14/2008 10:18:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rniederman@... writes:

Greg:

I’ve heard of the marking but never seen it. You’re now obligated to share images.

Long time since we last spoke … what’s new?

- Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: woodandbrass-bounces@... [mailto:woodandbrass-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Greg/Jayne Hillan
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:14 PM
To: Collectors of 19th Century Cameras & Photographica
Subject: [W&B] American Optical camera

Milan & group

Has anyone ever seen a wet plate vintage American Optical, or any other camera, stamped "second quality" on the bed rail? I have an American Optical two lens camera that is marked this way.

Greg Hillan

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