Windows XP Sp3?

[Cedric Chang-2]

I failed to mention adding safety chains in addition to the pintle.
cc

P.S.     many motorcycle crashes, scars, a car that was being towed  
at 70MPH and the front bumper ripped off, so the car went on auto-
pilot.  4 cars went into evasive action, no one was touched.

>
> On May 8, 2008, at 1:17 AM, Apptech wrote:
>
>> One easy way to go is to get a pintle hook ( new about $50
>> used
>> about $25 ) and attach it to your bumper.
>
> Interesting. Would not be legal here. FWIW.
>
>> Then  you can use a lunette loop to attach the trailer
>> securely.
>
> We are required to have a "security chain" which attaches
> from draw bar to trailer independent of the hitch proper.
> Has saved a few lives.
>
>> The most scary thing that ever happened was while I was
>> pulling a 27
>> foot travel trailer at 65 mph on a Mexican highway and a
>> big semi-
>> truck blew by the other way.  This sucked the trailer
>> sideways and it
>> took 1/2 mile to get the trailer to stop whip-lashing.
>
> Travelling south. A friend in Tokoroa (120 miles?) away
> asked if we could bring two motors down to him. I can't
> remember the details but AFAIR they were large DC motors -
> each an extremely uncomfortable load for one person to
> wrestle onto the trailer using a plank. They MAY have been
> trolley bus exciters. The two motors were installed on the
> trailer and tied down securely. Walker.
>
> The trailer was a largish domestic one with a tipping
> facility. We can see what's coming, can't we... ? :-). The
> tipping system was a subframe above the main frame that
> pivoted at about axle level allowing the bed to tilt up and
> loads to be dumped or run onto the trailer. I had probably
> bought it with motorcycle loading in mind amongst other
> things. That was the theory anyway, but in practice it was
> rather steep when tipped and far easier to put a bike on in
> a more normal manner. So, the tipper didn't get much use. It
> was permanently bolted with a single bolt at the draw bar -
> probably a 3/8", maybe 5/16" ???
>
> So, driving south, dark night, country road. Just passed
> Tokoroa turnoff for Rotorua - will take motors over
> tomorrow. One car following. Pass a car going the other way.
> Then suddenly, yee ha !!!!!!!! Second wildest auto ride I've
> ever had*, probably. The car was all over the road. The
> trailer was penduluming behind us to and from in giant arcs
> covering the whole width of the not too wide road. If the
> oncoming car had been a little later passing us ... :-(.
> After about 4000 hours of fighting the car I got the speed
> down and things under control and pulled over and stopped.
> Seemed like a good idea at the time. Man behind pulled over
> too. Fortunately for my licence he wasn't a cop.
>
> The motors had worked to the back of the tray placing
> substantial strain on the tipper.
> The bolt, no surprise, had sheared. The tipper had tipped
> and the rather heavy motors had sat in the tipped tray with
> the steel frame on the road and the long and light trailer
> joining them to us, and away we had gone. Death was a
> possibility - either of an oncoming motorist or of us if the
> shutdown had not gone quite so well. The man behind gave a
> graphic account of the showers of sparks and wild
> penduluming.
>
> We left the trailer and motors by the roadside and my friend
> collected them next day. He welded the tipper mechanism
> solid. Thereafter I had a trailer with two frames for no
> obvious purpose :-).
>
>
>
>         Russell
>
> * Wildest may have been when our car left the road on a
> gravel road during a car trial after adopting increasingly
> violent weavings that showed no sign of being overcome.
> Rolling was going to happen sooner or later so leaving the
> road and flattening a fence was a good choice. As my wife
> was driving this has served for many years as an emergency
> rejoinder when she criticises my more extreme driving
> activities. Well, I've never actually managed to ... ** . To
> be used sparingly. The fence survived. It was a 5 wire one
> hit about midway between strainer posts. It lay down
> cooperatively while the car half crossed it and stood up
> again when we and the following car crew pushed the car back
> onto the road. Not a scratch ... :-).
>
> ** Motorcycles are another matter. Lots of road leaving
> there. And worse.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Dwayne Reid]

At 08:38 PM 5/7/2008, Herbert Graf wrote:

>Unfortunately most of North America has an incorrect opinion on
>trailers. Most of us think that to tow ANYTHING you need a big truck
>with a V8 engine.
>
>Fact is pretty much ANY car is capable of towing 1000-1500lbs. While
>most cars do have a tow rating in the manual, most dealerships will
>claim it's not a good idea. That's rubbish.

I'm driving a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire.  Both my car owner's manual and
the dealership say that while the automatic transmission version of
that vehicle is OK for trailer towing, the manual transmission
version is NOT suitable for towing.  I truly wish I had known that
before I purchased the car - I wouldn't have.

I'm assuming that the wussy little tiny clutch is the weak link in
the chain.  I simply plan to install one of the new ceramic-type
clutch assemblies if and when I really do have to install a trailer
hitch.  As it stands, this is the first vehicle I've owned where I
haven't installed a hitch.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwayner@...>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
[phone] voice          [phone] fax
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Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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[Apptech]

>>Fact is pretty much ANY car is capable of towing
>>1000-1500lbs. While
>>most cars do have a tow rating in the manual, most
>>dealerships will
>>claim it's not a good idea. That's rubbish.

> I'm driving a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire.  Both my car owner's
> manual and
> the dealership say that while the automatic transmission
> version of
> that vehicle is OK for trailer towing, the manual
> transmission
> version is NOT suitable for towing.  I truly wish I had
> known that
> before I purchased the car - I wouldn't have.

There is about zero chance of their claim being realistic.
While getting a load "off the line" may require a bit of
care, once rolling the clutch should not be overly more than
normally stressed by a sensible trailer load. I've towed all
sorts of loads with all sorts of cars over many years and
have had no more problems than common sense would have lead
me to expect. eg I did manage to do some damage to a clutch
once while trying to back a trailer loaded with gravel from
a more or less standing start over an existing gravel heap,
but it would have been a medium miracle not to have.

Long ago I towed a medium sized caravan (maybe not
substantial by US standards) on a 2 week holiday using a
1600 CC car (Ford Mk2 Cortina manual). No problems at all.
Slower on hills than without a caravan :-).

At a quick look the Pontiac Sunfire is far more capable than
the Ford Mk2 Cortina mentioned above. Unless it's US
practice to install clutches markedly inferior to thos used
in rather small cars 30 or so years ago you should be OK if
using common sense.

Another issue with some cars is body stretch, but as in your
case its a manual/auto issue that shouldn't apply there.



        Russell

>
> I'm assuming that the wussy little tiny clutch is the weak
> link in
> the chain.  I simply plan to install one of the new
> ceramic-type
> clutch assemblies if and when I really do have to install
> a trailer
> hitch.  As it stands, this is the first vehicle I've owned
> where I
> haven't installed a hitch.
>
> dwayne
>
> --
> Dwayne Reid   <dwayner@...>
> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
> [phone] voice          [phone] fax
> www.trinity-electronics.com
> Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing
>
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[KPL]

>  Heh, I've seen smaller cars than a Golf fitted with towbars. You can buy
>  them for cars that you wouldn't think were capable of towing (Fiat
>  Barchetta!).
>
>  http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/

Towing a trailer does not mean it must be big and heavy.
If it's just a small trailer with a boat or motorcycle, it's not a
problem for a small car. That's what those trailer hitches are for.

BTW, is this another British english vs US english difference or what?
I mean - "towbar" vs "hitch".

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[Alan B. Pearce]

>* Wildest may have been when our car left the road on a
>gravel road during a car trial after adopting increasingly
>violent weavings that showed no sign of being overcome.
>Rolling was going to happen sooner or later so leaving the
>road and flattening a fence was a good choice.

Was it a front wheel drive car? I have had this happen a couple of times in
an Austin 1300 GT I once owned, and the problem occurs when you get one
wheel off the road surface onto a (relatively) slippery surface, such as
grass. The other wheel then causes the one on the slippery surface to rotate
backwards, and the person steering then has a wild ride. The solution is to
apply sufficient power that both wheels are being driven by the motor, and
there is no motion transmission back through the differential.

Your story with the trailer reminds me of an incident I had with carrying
the aforementioned Austin on a car trailer, the towing vehicle being a
Triumph 2000. The trailer that I had hired had the wheels too far forward
for the length of trailer, and it was too easy to get the load improperly
balanced - but I didn't know that at the time ...

Anyway I had the car on the trailer, and was proceeding from Petone
foreshore towards Wellington - thankfully late enough in the evening for
there to be very few cars around. Now to come from the foreshore you come
over a bridge that carries you over the railway, and i suspect this was the
first part of my undoing. The whole car and trailer started fishtailing down
the ramp onto the level piece of road - three lanes wide narrowing to two,
and then opening to three again at the far end of the straight which was the
best part of a 1/2 mile long, possibly more. The whole incident ended with
the trailer going sideways into the solid concrete median barrier, and the
car being at sufficient angle in its fishtailing that only the rear corner
hit the barrier. This collision was enough to bring it all to a halt, and
allowed me to collect my thoughts before moving off again.

The damage was minor really, a small amount of panel damage to the rear
quarter of the car, the bumper required replacing, and the towbar was badly
twisted, but not that bad that I couldn't carry on my way from the scene. I
proceeded the rest of the way home at a much more sedate pace, thankful that
there had been no other traffic around to get mixed up with. If there had
been other vehicles around it could have been quite a trail of destruction.

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[Carl Denk]

Hitch is the portion that attaches to the towing vehicle, usually
includes a square tube receiver and a ball and tube assembly that the
trailer hooks to. The hitch usually is permanently fastened to the
towing vehicle, but for some vehicles (older) temporary rentals are
available..

Tow bar generally is the assembly that attaches to the front of a
vehicle, to allow it to be towed. Commonly used with RV's ((Caravan for
the U.K.) to tow a small vehicle for transportation at destination.

Trailers normally have a tongue with a device to engage the hitch ball
which can be a single tube or 2 or more steel members.

KPL wrote:

>>  Heh, I've seen smaller cars than a Golf fitted with towbars. You can buy
>>  them for cars that you wouldn't think were capable of towing (Fiat
>>  Barchetta!).
>>
>>  http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/
>>    
>
> Towing a trailer does not mean it must be big and heavy.
> If it's just a small trailer with a boat or motorcycle, it's not a
> problem for a small car. That's what those trailer hitches are for.
>
> BTW, is this another British english vs US english difference or what?
> I mean - "towbar" vs "hitch".
>
>  

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[Carl Denk]

The stock manual clutch should be able to handle full torque without
slipping and causing heat. But the manual could overheat as gears do
generate heat. Just feel the gearbox on a larger mower after mowing an
acre. Automatic transmissions need to be watched for overheating, which
may not be evident while driving. The tranny dipstick should be pulled
and the oil examined for discoloration and burnt smell. If any question
the tranny fluid and filter should be changed, and the oil pan examined
for debris. Even heavier vehicles need some beefing up when trailer
towing. Our Ford Bronco is rated for 6000 lb. trailer, and can easily
pull that at over 70mph over any Interstate mountain highway, the slow,
smooth shifts for comfort on normal driving allow the automatic's
clutches to slip, creating heat and eventual failure. Replacing an
inexpensive easy to do, pressure regulating part stiffens and makes
quick shifts, not as comfortable, especially in cold weather, but lasts
forever.

Dwayne Reid wrote:

> At 08:38 PM 5/7/2008, Herbert Graf wrote:
>
>  
>> Unfortunately most of North America has an incorrect opinion on
>> trailers. Most of us think that to tow ANYTHING you need a big truck
>> with a V8 engine.
>>
>> Fact is pretty much ANY car is capable of towing 1000-1500lbs. While
>> most cars do have a tow rating in the manual, most dealerships will
>> claim it's not a good idea. That's rubbish.
>>    
>
> I'm driving a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire.  Both my car owner's manual and
> the dealership say that while the automatic transmission version of
> that vehicle is OK for trailer towing, the manual transmission
> version is NOT suitable for towing.  I truly wish I had known that
> before I purchased the car - I wouldn't have.
>
> I'm assuming that the wussy little tiny clutch is the weak link in
> the chain.  I simply plan to install one of the new ceramic-type
> clutch assemblies if and when I really do have to install a trailer
> hitch.  As it stands, this is the first vehicle I've owned where I
> haven't installed a hitch.
>
> dwayne
>
>  

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[Apptech]

> >* Wildest may have been when our car left the road on a
>>gravel road during a car trial after adopting increasingly
>>violent weavings that showed no sign of being overcome.
>>Rolling was going to happen sooner or later so leaving the
>>road and flattening a fence was a good choice.

> Was it a front wheel drive car? I have had this happen a
> couple of times in
> an Austin 1300 GT I once owned, and the problem occurs
> when you get one
> wheel off the road surface onto a (relatively) slippery
> surface, such as
> grass.

No. It was a Mk2 Cortina. An excellent car in most respects.
And a lady driver :-). True, but unfair. That is my wife's
worst case brush with vehicular disaster. She is an
excellent and safe driver and has travelled N00,000 miles/km
without any other accidents of her making.

In this case it was an oscillatory build up on a downhill
gravel road with each "correction" taking us further
sideways. We'd come over a crest and something happened to
start the process off. I'm highly used to being out of
control on gravel but my wife far less so - she prefers to
drive so as to not be in trouble in the 1st place but is
;less able to handle it if it does happen. I'd say we were
within a fishtail or two of rolling when the decision to
leave the road was made. Proved to be a fine decision in
retrospect.

> The whole car and trailer started fishtailing down
> the ramp onto the level piece of road -

I recently said that the cure for trailer fishtailing was to
accelerate. In fact that was the opposite of what my brain
was trying to make my fingers say.
The correct response is (my brain insists) to brake hard.
Not intuitive. And partially but not well supported by a
Gargoyle search - so may be wrong. May also depend on
whether the trailer has override brakes and whether you
brake as the combo is in a straight line (mid fishtail).


        Russell


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[Apptech]

Towbar here (NZ) is the bolted or welded rear towing
attachment on the pulling vehicle. Subject to extensive
regulatory requirements (FEA design et al) and must be
professionally fitted and certified. A temporary
bolt/strap/stick on arrangement would never be sanctioned.
Safety chain mandatory.

'Hitch(hike)' is to stand by the roadside and cadge a ride.


        Russell

> Hitch is the portion that attaches to the towing vehicle,
> usually
> includes a square tube receiver and a ball and tube
> assembly that the
> trailer hooks to. The hitch usually is permanently
> fastened to the
> towing vehicle, but for some vehicles (older) temporary
> rentals are
> available..

> Tow bar generally is the assembly that attaches to the
> front of a
> vehicle, to allow it to be towed. Commonly used with RV's
> ((Caravan for
> the U.K.) to tow a small vehicle for transportation at
> destination.

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[MicroControllers - PIC mailing list]

In message
<a9b5b0d20805122254v7b7503b9ha4346614edc0b9a4@...>, KPL
<kpl.listes@...> writes
>>  Heh, I've seen smaller cars than a Golf fitted with towbars. You can buy
>>  them for cars that you wouldn't think were capable of towing (Fiat
>>  Barchetta!).
>>
>>  http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/
>
>Towing a trailer does not mean it must be big and heavy.
Of course. There are just some cars you wouldn't expect to have a
towbar, Fiat Barchetta being one.
>If it's just a small trailer with a boat or motorcycle, it's not a
>problem for a small car. That's what those trailer hitches are for.
Tow load being dependant on vehicle weight, of course. It would seem
that there is a mobile home for all sizes of cars too.
>
>BTW, is this another British english vs US english difference or what?
>I mean - "towbar" vs "hitch".
Yes AFAIK, although friends who tow say 'hitch up' when they are
attaching their trailer or caravan. Possibly tow hitch is used in the
UK, I just haven't heard it.
>
>--
>KPL

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[Martin Klingensmith]

Merely installing anything resembling a tow bar on my hybrid Honda Civic
will void the CVT warranty.
-
Martin


Dwayne Reid wrote:

> At 08:38 PM 5/7/2008, Herbert Graf wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately most of North America has an incorrect opinion on
>> trailers. Most of us think that to tow ANYTHING you need a big truck
>> with a V8 engine.
>>
>> Fact is pretty much ANY car is capable of towing 1000-1500lbs. While
>> most cars do have a tow rating in the manual, most dealerships will
>> claim it's not a good idea. That's rubbish.
>
> I'm driving a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire.  Both my car owner's manual and
> the dealership say that while the automatic transmission version of
> that vehicle is OK for trailer towing, the manual transmission
> version is NOT suitable for towing.  I truly wish I had known that
> before I purchased the car - I wouldn't have.
>
> I'm assuming that the wussy little tiny clutch is the weak link in
> the chain.  I simply plan to install one of the new ceramic-type
> clutch assemblies if and when I really do have to install a trailer
> hitch.  As it stands, this is the first vehicle I've owned where I
> haven't installed a hitch.
>
> dwayne
>

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[andrew kelley]

>  I recently said that the cure for trailer fishtailing was to
>  accelerate. In fact that was the opposite of what my brain
>  was trying to make my fingers say.
>  The correct response is (my brain insists) to brake hard.
>  Not intuitive. And partially but not well supported by a
>  Gargoyle search - so may be wrong. May also depend on
>  whether the trailer has override brakes and whether you
>  brake as the combo is in a straight line (mid fishtail).

Accelerating will stop fishtailing trailers.  (unevenly loaded 5x9 and
jeep cherokee over the Tappan-Zee bridge)  Light braking will stop it
as well. Panic stop without trailer brakes would stop the car, but the
trailer might come around.


>         Russell

andrew
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[PicDude]

As someone who has moved a lot in the past decade or so, I can empathize.  And
I know how it hurts to pay for something you already own.  I have enough
personal horror stories about movers not to go that route.

However, if I had to do this, I'd make space in the car for the scope, then
ship clothes by UPS or USPS.  BTW, USPS ships books and other media at a very
low cost as "media mail", and you're allowed to pad that (with clothes etc)
to protect the books/media.  ;)

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Wednesday 07 May 2008 18:35, piclist@... wrote:

> So I am trying to pack my car for a cross-country move to Berkeley, CA.
>
> Every square inch I can spare will make this easier, so I am pondering my
> big 1009mhz 5 channel scope.  I love it, but it is taking up a lot of
> space, and I don't trust UPS to deliver it.  Plus it will cost more to
> ship than I paid for the thing.
>
> I was pondering leaving it, and buying a PC-based one once I was settled
> in, thinking they would be cheaper.. but I see prices around $400 or so
> for the low level stuff and thats way too much.
>
> So... is there a nice $100 pc-based scope, or think I can replace mine for
> about that price in Berkeley?  Or should I bring it?  I hate the idea of
> buying something I own, even if it IS cheaper than trying to move it.
>
> I wish I could just ship my entire hobby out there, but too much of it is
> delicate and easily breakable and I have had too many packages trashed by
> UPS, not to mention movers.  (Last time I used movers they lost my bicycle
> and completeley smashed this REALLY nice autotransformer.)
>
> Ugh.  Having a good collection of parts and tools is great until you have
> to move it long distances in a small car.
>
> --
> Ian Smith
> www.ian.org

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[piclist-7]

On Mon, 12 May 2008, Cedric Chang wrote:
> P.S.     many motorcycle crashes, scars, a car that was being towed  
> at 70MPH and the front bumper ripped off, so the car went on auto-
> pilot.  4 cars went into evasive action, no one was touched.

A friend of mine once saw a boat on a trailer sailing down the highway
with no car attached to it.

Sadly he was going the other way so never got to see the wipeout when it
finally left the road.

Would car or boat insurance cover that, or neither? :-)

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[Cedric Chang-2]

Some forms of auto insurance would cover that .....

I once saw a really beautiful truck stop hard for a stop sign.
The boat behind the truck jack-knifed and crashed through about 4  
reflector poles.  I remember seeing pieces of fiberglass fly in the  
air as the poles karate chopped the gorgeous hull.
The driver pulled the trailer straight and took off without getting  
out to look at the boat.
This was in 1970 and I estimate the boat was worth about $30,000 at  
that time.  I imagine the boat repairs were on the order of $10,000.
cc

>
> On May 16, 2008, at 4:13 PM, piclist@... wrote:
>
> On Mon, 12 May 2008, Cedric Chang wrote:
>> P.S.     many motorcycle crashes, scars, a car that was being towed
>> at 70MPH and the front bumper ripped off, so the car went on auto-
>> pilot.  4 cars went into evasive action, no one was touched.
>
> A friend of mine once saw a boat on a trailer sailing down the highway
> with no car attached to it.
>
> Sadly he was going the other way so never got to see the wipeout  
> when it
> finally left the road.
>
> Would car or boat insurance cover that, or neither? :-)
>
> --
> Ian Smith
> www.ian.org
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>

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