tag:www.nabble.com,2006:forum-14042Nabble - Wiktionary2008-09-02T14:21:40ZWiktionary home is <a href="http://www.wiktionary.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow">here</a>.tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19278672Hackers needed for Wiktionary application2008-09-02T14:21:40Z2008-09-02T14:21:40ZAndrew DunbarI've begun work on a Wiktionary application and I'm at the point where
<br>I'd like to ask some other Wiktionary hackers to help.
<br><br>It's not ready for a beta release yet but anybody who has hacked
<br>Wiktionary JavaScript or tried to parse Wiktionary articles might be
<br>interested and able to participate.
<br><br>It's a Firefox extension which means it's programmed in JavaScript.
<br><br>It has offline support, being able to read local dump files.
<br><br>It has its own wikt: protocol which provides wikitext and emulates
<br>some features of api.php so it is easy to get it working with existing
<br>code. Anything that can do an AJAX request can query wikt:
<br><br>I've also made an interface for one proprietary CD dictionary as a
<br>proof of concept that the same interfaces can be made to work with
<br>other dictionary datasources. This means when you come across unusual
<br>words in your reading you can query Wiktionary and other dictionaries
<br>to see if they cover the word from one central place.
<br><br>I don't have much web page design experience and need some help
<br>developing a good interface.
<br><br>Some of the current code is in proof of concept form in perl as
<br>external tools. These need to be converted to JavaScript and added to
<br>the Firefox extension.
<br><br>It will be able to discover, download, and index new dump files for
<br>your language Wiktionaries.
<br><br>It will be able to manage word lists in various languages, add article
<br>requests, etc.
<br><br>Anyway it's early days but leave me a message if you'd like a copy to play with.
<br><br><a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#Hackers_needed_for_Wiktionary_application" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour#Hackers_needed_for_Wiktionary_application</a><br><br>Andrew Dunbar (hippietrail)
<br><br>--
<br><a href="http://wiktionarydev.leuksman.com" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://wiktionarydev.leuksman.com</a> <a href="http://linguaphile.sf.net" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://linguaphile.sf.net</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19278672&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19078965Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-20T15:03:25Z2008-08-20T15:03:25ZMuke TeverVitaly V. <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19078965&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dr.vitall@...</a>> wrote:
<br>>> Hmm? No, that would be silly. The only language that should get that
<br>>> priority in any kind of disambiguation scheme is the language of the
<br>>> wiki.
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> What? There is no "disambiguation scheme" in this proposal. Look at
<br>> example <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> provided by Анатолій
<br>> Гончаров in original post.
<br><br>...which is a page which apparently (for whatever reason) considers the
<br>English article primary, and has perfectly ordinary disambiguation links
<br>to [[November/la]] and [[November/de]]--no different than what you might
<br>find at the top of a wikipedia page--only displayed in a fancy simplified
<br>format instead of with the usual text which would be along the lines of
<br>"This page is about the English word 'November'. For the Latin word, see
<br>[[November/la]]. For the German word, see [[November/de]]."
<br><br>> This is entirely different subject. I feel against creating millions of
<br>> disambiguation page, but this is something for different discussion.
<br><br>Against millions of disambiguation pages when there are millions of things
<br>to disambiguate against? Could you sell that viewpoint on any wiki? Why
<br>this one?
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>> As Wiktionary grows, there will be *fewer* like that.
<br>>
<br>> How come? Have you ever paid attention how many words defined in English
<br>> or French Wiktionary? Less then a million! And that is best Wiktionaries
<br>> out
<br>> there. In Russian language alone there are roughly one and a half million
<br>> words. And there is absolutely nothing special about Russian language.
<br>> Estimations for Ukrainian or Belorussian would be similar. With very low
<br>> overlap - even alphabets are different. And there is thousands of
<br>> languages out there.
</div><br>Overlap between languages doesn't matter for the particular point that
<br>remark was about. There will be millions of articles, certainly. But the
<br>remark was about seeing all the information at once after searching for
<br>the word, which is irrelevant to the number of languages on it: as
<br>Wiktionary grows, most pages will need to have all their separate sections
<br>for homographs, pronunciations, alternative spellings, etymologies, parts
<br>of speech, declension or conjugation tables, associated terms of various
<br>kinds, derived terms, etc., depending on the format of the wiktionary. As
<br>I mentioned with the examples, some of those had *tables of contents* more
<br>than a screen high even with only one or two languages on the page, and
<br>this is supposed to be normal: when the pages are no longer stubs, you
<br>will not have the situation where "information is shown directly on [your]
<br>screen after search".
<br><br>>> they are by definition not interested in anything else we feel like
<br>>> showing them.
<br>>
<br>> I don't know who define what I'm interested in, as a user. And I'm a user
<br>> indeed. And I rather have an easy access to information about word that
<br>> interests me, other then have it hidden behind interface.
<br><br>Exactly the point. If the user wants easy access to the word of interest
<br>to them, that pretty much excludes having several other words *not* of
<br>interest to them presented at the same time just because by some
<br>historical accident they happen to be spelled with the same letters. The
<br>irrelevant data, namely the words the user is not interested in, should
<br>not be part of the interface hiding the word that does interest them, but
<br>so long as the words are all on the same page, that is the state of
<br>affairs.
<br><br>And if a user happens to be interested in words that have the same
<br>spelling, they can click through to find them just as people click through
<br>to reach words with the same rhyme scheme in pronunciation sections, or as
<br>they click through to reach words with the same meaning in translation
<br>sections, or as they click through to reach words with the same root in
<br>etymology or derivation sections. Is there a particular reason why words
<br>with the same spelling should be accorded special preference?
<br><br> *Muke!
<br>--
<br><a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19078965&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19055719Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-19T11:10:39Z2008-08-19T11:10:39ZTest Pilot<div class='shrinkable-quote'>>
<br>> > But think, what happens if user look for Russian "язык" or "месяц" etc.
<br>> > with new system? He will be forced to page that got Belorussian
<br>> > definitions.
<br>> > What if person looks for Spanish "justa"? User will get irrelevant
<br>> > Esperanto definition.
<br>> > Italian "cinta"? Ones again, not related page about Indonesian noun.
<br>>
<br>> Hmm? No, that would be silly. The only language that should get that
<br>> priority in any kind of disambiguation scheme is the language of the
<br>> wiki.
</div><br><br>What? There is no "disambiguation scheme" in this proposal. Look at example
<br><a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> provided by Анатолій Гончаров in
<br>original post. First language that starts with A was shown. Lets stick to
<br>the point of discussion. *The core idea of this proposal is that we show
<br>user only one language after he searched for a word. Instead of showing all
<br>results.*
<br><br>And my major objection - we better show relevant information after user hit
<br>"search" button, which is way more convenient, other then showing randomly
<br>selected alphabetical article. Not showing anything would be even worse.
<br><br>If the language of the wiki doesn't have that word, but other
<br>> languages do, then one would get a disambiguation page, not whatever
<br>> language happens to be first in alphabetical order. This is how the Latin
<br>> Wiktionary has done it for years now. e.g.
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/greet" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/greet</a><br>> (Not a Latin word, thus disambiguation)
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/formica" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/formica</a><br>> (A Latin word; other languages linked from the bottom)
<br><br><br>This is entirely different subject. I feel against creating millions of
<br>disambiguation page, but this is something for different discussion.
<br><br> As Wiktionary grows,
<br>> there will be *fewer* like that.
<br><br><br>How come? Have you ever paid attention how many words defined in English or
<br>French Wiktionary? Less then a million! And that is best Wiktionaries out
<br>there. In Russian language alone there are roughly one and a half million
<br>words. And there is absolutely nothing special about Russian language.
<br>Estimations for Ukrainian or Belorussian would be similar. With very low
<br>overlap - even alphabets are different. And there is thousands of languages
<br>out there. Even if Wiktionaries grow at a rate of one million new articles
<br>per year, in one century it would not be half of it supposed state in terms
<br>of words defined.
<br><br><br>> they are by definition not interested in anything else we feel like
<br>> showing them.
<br><br><br>I don't know who define what I'm interested in, as a user. And I'm a user
<br>indeed. And I rather have an easy access to information about word that
<br>interests me, other then have it hidden behind interface.
<br><br>Vitaly aka TestPilot
<br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19055719&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19030943Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-17T06:11:00Z2008-08-17T06:11:00ZLars AronssonVitaly V. wrote:
<br><br>> What, clicking = good, scrolling = bad? No! We all use both ways
<br>> to navigate web pages and Wiktionary.
<br><br>This sounds like my favorite line from the movie "The
<br>Bluesbrothers". The band (playing blues) comes to a small place
<br>in the countryside and asks what kind of music is usually played
<br>there. "We have *both* kinds: Country *and* Western."
<br><br>When the choice is between scrolling and clicking, perhaps we
<br>need to move on to something entirely new in interface design.
<br><br>Wiktionary is limited by the Mediawiki software, which is great
<br>for collaboratively writing an encyclopedia, but its innovation
<br>is the "edit" button, not its browsing user interface. What kind
<br>of user interfaces do commercial dictionary software (without the
<br>edit button and revision history) use? Dynamic mind-maps?
<br><br><br>--
<br> Lars Aronsson (<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19030943&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">lars@...</a>)
<br> Aronsson Datateknik - <a href="http://aronsson.se" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://aronsson.se</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19030943&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19016004Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-16T16:19:22Z2008-08-16T16:19:22ZMuke TeverVitaly V. <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19016004&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dr.vitall@...</a>> wrote:
<br>> But think, what happens if user look for Russian "язык" or "месяц" etc.
<br>> with new system? He will be forced to page that got Belorussian
<br>> definitions.
<br>> What if person looks for Spanish "justa"? User will get irrelevant
<br>> Esperanto definition.
<br>> Italian "cinta"? Ones again, not related page about Indonesian noun.
<br><br>Hmm? No, that would be silly. The only language that should get that
<br>priority in any kind of disambiguation scheme is the language of the
<br>wiki. If the language of the wiki doesn't have that word, but other
<br>languages do, then one would get a disambiguation page, not whatever
<br>language happens to be first in alphabetical order. This is how the Latin
<br>Wiktionary has done it for years now. e.g.
<br><br><a href="http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/greet" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/greet</a><br> (Not a Latin word, thus disambiguation)
<br><br><a href="http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/formica" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/formica</a><br> (A Latin word; other languages linked from the bottom)
<br><br>> While with interface as it is, I don't even have to click/scroll -
<br>> information is shown directly on my screen after search of above-words .
<br>> There dozens(if not hundreds) of thousands articles like that. And as
<br>> Wiktionary grow, there would be even more.
<br><br>Again, if you get all the information at once, it is because there is not
<br>much information there: you're looking at stubs. As Wiktionary grows,
<br>there will be *fewer* like that.
<br><br>> And contrary to what you say, I do believe, that the chances of article
<br>> to be edited/corrected related to how many time it was
<br>> shown/visited/looked into.
<br><br>Fair enough; but either the user is a casual browser, or someone looking
<br>for a specific piece of information. In the former case, they are exactly
<br>as likely to run across [[язык (ru)]] as [[язык (bg)]], and in the latter
<br>case, they are by definition not interested in anything else we feel like
<br>showing them.
<br><br>Again, there are better ways of getting people to look at information than
<br>relying on other headwords happening to be spelled the same way as what
<br>the user is actually looking for. Heck, just showing five articles from
<br>the main namespace at *random* in addition to the main entry would be more
<br>useful for that purpose than just showing homographs, if exposure is the
<br>goal you're aiming at.
<br><br> *Muke!
<br>--
<br><a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19016004&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19014677Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-16T13:13:48Z2008-08-16T13:13:48ZTest PilotWhat, clicking = good, scrolling = bad? No! We all use both ways to navigate
<br>web pages and Wiktionary.
<br>It is not about being bad/good thing. It is about removing/keeping choice...
<br>And you can use either way at present.
<br><br>But think, what happens if user look for Russian "язык" or "месяц" etc. with
<br>new system? He will be forced to page that got Belorussian definitions.
<br>What if person looks for Spanish "justa"? User will get irrelevant Esperanto
<br>definition.
<br>Italian "cinta"? Ones again, not related page about Indonesian noun.
<br>While with interface as it is, I don't even have to click/scroll -
<br>information is shown directly on my screen after search of above-words .
<br>There dozens(if not hundreds) of thousands articles like that. And as
<br>Wiktionary grow, there would be even more.
<br><br>You say that there is few articles with too huge Contents menu. Legitimate
<br>point. But why than we don't fix the real problem - menu itself. For example
<br>by adding option to collapse all but top level entrees (e.g. languages).
<br>Just the way we got "Hide" option right now.
<br>But adding an extra menu to the top of each and every article plus
<br>aggressively changing page layout do not sound to me like a right solution
<br>for that.
<br><br>My main point - current system more versatile and more convenient. In a
<br>different ways. And contrary to what you say, I do believe, that the chances
<br>of article to be edited/corrected related to how many time it was
<br>shown/visited/looked into.
<br><br>Vitally, aka TestPilot
<br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19014677&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19013952Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-16T11:48:12Z2008-08-16T11:48:12ZConrad Irwin2008/8/16 Muke Tever <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19013952&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">muke@...</a>>:
<div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Vitaly V. <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19013952&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dr.vitall@...</a>> wrote:
<br>>>>> First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word
<br>>>>> mean in second/third language.
<br>>>> You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for
<br>>>> more easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not
<br>>>> looking for?
<br>>>
<br>>> It make it more harder - for many languages definitions user will HAVE TO
<br>>> make an extra mouse click.
<br>>> Plus you can feed your curiosity about what word in question mean in
<br>>> other languages just by scrolling - without need for multiple mouse
<br>>> clicks.
<br>>
<br>> Is there a source you can offer for scrolling = good, clicking = bad? I
<br>> know usability expert Jakob Nielsen often has asserted exactly the
<br>> reverse.[1][2][3] Now, while people of course *do* scroll[4] that doesn't
<br>> make it the best way to navigate websites.
<br>>
<br>>>>> It will also make user less likely to edit second third language
<br>>>>> definition, especially if languages belong to same family and
<br>>>>> user/editor speaks more then 2 languages.
<br>>>> If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit
<br>>>> information, whatever page it's on.
<br>>>
<br>>> You seems to miss the point - if user don't see information/definition,
<br>>> he will never edit it. And there lots of editors, that fix or add
<br>>> definitions only when they use Wiktionary and see mistakes or missing
<br>>> information.
<br>>
<br>> Well, that's what the wiki format is. If you want a system that presents
<br>> information to knowledgeable editors to review whether they were looking
<br>> for it or not, that's something outside normal wiki practice, and could be
<br>> implemented a lot more efficiently than just relying on whether a word
<br>> happens to be spelled the same as another word the editor knows.
<br>>
<br>> Put it another way, these multilingual editors are used to, say, Spanish
<br>> [[hermano]] and Portuguese [[irmão]] being on different pages when they go
<br>> to contribute information, as this is the usual state of affairs. If
<br>> Spanish and Portuguese entries for [[amigo]] are on the same page, this
<br>> may be a little easier for them (depending on how many other languages
<br>> have entries on the page between them) but if they're on different pages
<br>> _it doesn't make it any more difficult than the usual state of affairs_.
<br>>
<br>>>>> Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages
<br>>>>> definitions less convenient - now for words defined in two-three
<br>>>>> languages you can use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system,again,
<br>>>>> you have to click.
<br>>>> You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it
<br>>>> side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you
<br>>>> want to compare bits of information?
<br>>>
<br>>> I mean what I said - with current system you have NO NEED to make an
<br>>> extra clicks at all if word defined using up to 3 or 4 languages - and
<br>>> there a LOT of words like that.
<br>>
<br>> Again, a click is often easier than pages of scrolling. Were it
<br>> otherwise, we may just well put the whole dictionary on one page.
<br>>
<br>>> If you prefer multiple clicking over mouse scrolling - then current way
<br>>> don't have advantages over proposed one. On the other hand, proposed one
<br>>> don't advantages over current one either.
<br>>
<br>> As I've been saying, using disambiguation reduces signal-to-noise ratio
<br>> for the user. It's also easier on page load times. It just took about
<br>> twenty-four seconds on this old computer to load and display [[a]]
<br>> (compared to five for [[amigo]]) -- and odds are if I go there I'm only
<br>> looking for an entry in one language, which may well turn out to be a
<br>> one-line stub.
<br>>
<br>>> Sorry to hear you, Muke, have difficulties using/find it inconvinient to
<br>>> use Contents to find proper language definition. Is [[en:wikt:a]]
<br>>> article is a real word example? Like you come across lots of articles
<br>>> that got MULTIPLE screens of "Contents" menu? From my personal
<br>>> experience, I think I never saw one. I mean during usual, real life
<br>>> usage of Wiktionary.
<br>>
<br>> Just because 99% of Wiktionary entries are stubs does not mean that it's
<br>> supposed to be this way. When Wiktionary grows up more pages are going to
<br>> be like [[a]] than otherwise. Even a word like [[muke]] with stub entries
<br>> for only nine languages has a page and a half table of contents. After
<br>> they become respectable entries with more information under more headings
<br>> it'll be much worse, even before any other languages are added.
<br>>
<br>>> But it could be possible that we got very different search pattern
<br>>> behavior. If problem widespread and real, could you please providefew,
<br>>> like 5 or six examples of such words you expirienced in reallife
<br>>> Wiktionary use? I really curiouse, what type of words will be that.
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lead" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lead</a><br>> - a page of contents covering the decent-sized English entry alone, with
<br>> two other entries that could grow just as large.
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/do" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/do</a><br>> - over four pages of contents covering 24 languages.
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iron" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iron</a><br>> - a page and a half of contents for the English entry alone.
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go</a><br>> - about two pages, only nine languages
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one</a><br>> - two screens, twelve languages
<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/box" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/box</a><br>> - two screens, only five languages
<br>>
<br>> Seeing these entries, keep in mind that ideally all entries, not just the
<br>> English ones, ought to be as comprehensive in the amount and type of
<br>> information offered (in everything but the translation sections, which of
<br>> course are generally only placed on entries for the wiki's native
<br>> language). There *ought* to be, according to the way en.wikt structures
<br>> its information, enough information to have as long a table of contents as
<br>> [[lead]] or [[iron]] for each entry. If you can see more than one or two
<br>> languages in the table of contents at a time, that's generally a sign
<br>> you're looking at *stubs*. But the wiki shouldn't be designed for stubs,
<br>> but for properly-sized articles.
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> *Muke!
<br>> [1] <a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9712a.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9712a.html</a><br>> >> [P]ages that can be markedly improved with a scrolling
<br>> >> design may be made as long as necessary, though it should
<br>> >> be a rare exception to go beyond three screenfulls on
<br>> >> an average monitor.
<br>> [2] <a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20050711.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20050711.html</a><br>> >> In any case, all key information should be visible on the
<br>> >> initial screen because scrolling can cause accessibility
<br>> >> problems:
<br>> >> * The additional action that scrolling requires can be
<br>> >> difficult for users with motor skill impairments.
<br>> >> * Low-literacy users can't easily reacquire their position
<br>> >> in the text after it moves.
<br>> >> * Elderly users often have trouble getting to the right
<br>> >> spot in scrolling menus and other small scrolling items.
<br>> [3] <a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/screen_resolution.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/screen_resolution.html</a><br>> >> [S]crolling is always a key consideration. Users generally
<br>> don't like to scroll [...]
<br>> [4] <a href="http://blog.clicktale.com/2006/12/23/unfolding-the-fold/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://blog.clicktale.com/2006/12/23/unfolding-the-fold/</a><br>> --
<br>> <a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br>>
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19013952&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div><br>The format of the page makes no difference to the dictionaries
<br>structure. This means that the only thing the tabs do is provide a
<br>user view preference. As everyone has different opinions on what looks
<br>and feels nice, there will be no agreement that tabs are good or bad,
<br>people either like it or don't. I personally like it, and think that
<br>is we had the option to open more than one tab at a time, and to
<br>select multiple tabs to be open by default (or even no tabs at all),
<br>then there would be a way to keep everyone happy. Whether to turn it
<br>on for anonymous users or not is a discussion that can wait until
<br>after people are using it as a personal preference.
<br><br>Conrad
<br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19013952&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19011994Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-16T07:43:51Z2008-08-16T07:43:51ZMuke TeverVitaly V. <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19011994&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dr.vitall@...</a>> wrote:
<div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>>> First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word
<br>>>> mean in second/third language.
<br>>> You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for
<br>>> more easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not
<br>>> looking for?
<br>>
<br>> It make it more harder - for many languages definitions user will HAVE TO
<br>> make an extra mouse click.
<br>> Plus you can feed your curiosity about what word in question mean in
<br>> other languages just by scrolling - without need for multiple mouse
<br>> clicks.
</div><br>Is there a source you can offer for scrolling = good, clicking = bad? I
<br>know usability expert Jakob Nielsen often has asserted exactly the
<br>reverse.[1][2][3] Now, while people of course *do* scroll[4] that doesn't
<br>make it the best way to navigate websites.
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>>> It will also make user less likely to edit second third language
<br>>>> definition, especially if languages belong to same family and
<br>>>> user/editor speaks more then 2 languages.
<br>>> If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit
<br>>> information, whatever page it's on.
<br>>
<br>> You seems to miss the point - if user don't see information/definition,
<br>> he will never edit it. And there lots of editors, that fix or add
<br>> definitions only when they use Wiktionary and see mistakes or missing
<br>> information.
</div><br>Well, that's what the wiki format is. If you want a system that presents
<br>information to knowledgeable editors to review whether they were looking
<br>for it or not, that's something outside normal wiki practice, and could be
<br>implemented a lot more efficiently than just relying on whether a word
<br>happens to be spelled the same as another word the editor knows.
<br><br>Put it another way, these multilingual editors are used to, say, Spanish
<br>[[hermano]] and Portuguese [[irmão]] being on different pages when they go
<br>to contribute information, as this is the usual state of affairs. If
<br>Spanish and Portuguese entries for [[amigo]] are on the same page, this
<br>may be a little easier for them (depending on how many other languages
<br>have entries on the page between them) but if they're on different pages
<br>_it doesn't make it any more difficult than the usual state of affairs_.
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>>>> Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages
<br>>>> definitions less convenient - now for words defined in two-three
<br>>>> languages you can use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system,again,
<br>>>> you have to click.
<br>>> You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it
<br>>> side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you
<br>>> want to compare bits of information?
<br>>
<br>> I mean what I said - with current system you have NO NEED to make an
<br>> extra clicks at all if word defined using up to 3 or 4 languages - and
<br>> there a LOT of words like that.
</div><br>Again, a click is often easier than pages of scrolling. Were it
<br>otherwise, we may just well put the whole dictionary on one page.
<br><br>> If you prefer multiple clicking over mouse scrolling - then current way
<br>> don't have advantages over proposed one. On the other hand, proposed one
<br>> don't advantages over current one either.
<br><br>As I've been saying, using disambiguation reduces signal-to-noise ratio
<br>for the user. It's also easier on page load times. It just took about
<br>twenty-four seconds on this old computer to load and display [[a]]
<br>(compared to five for [[amigo]]) -- and odds are if I go there I'm only
<br>looking for an entry in one language, which may well turn out to be a
<br>one-line stub.
<br><br>> Sorry to hear you, Muke, have difficulties using/find it inconvinient to
<br>> use Contents to find proper language definition. Is [[en:wikt:a]]
<br>> article is a real word example? Like you come across lots of articles
<br>> that got MULTIPLE screens of "Contents" menu? From my personal
<br>> experience, I think I never saw one. I mean during usual, real life
<br>> usage of Wiktionary.
<br><br>Just because 99% of Wiktionary entries are stubs does not mean that it's
<br>supposed to be this way. When Wiktionary grows up more pages are going to
<br>be like [[a]] than otherwise. Even a word like [[muke]] with stub entries
<br>for only nine languages has a page and a half table of contents. After
<br>they become respectable entries with more information under more headings
<br>it'll be much worse, even before any other languages are added.
<br><br>> But it could be possible that we got very different search pattern
<br>> behavior. If problem widespread and real, could you please providefew,
<br>> like 5 or six examples of such words you expirienced in reallife
<br>> Wiktionary use? I really curiouse, what type of words will be that.
<br><br> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lead" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lead</a><br>- a page of contents covering the decent-sized English entry alone, with
<br>two other entries that could grow just as large.
<br><br> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/do" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/do</a><br>- over four pages of contents covering 24 languages.
<br><br> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iron" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iron</a><br>- a page and a half of contents for the English entry alone.
<br><br> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go</a><br>- about two pages, only nine languages
<br><br> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/one</a><br>- two screens, twelve languages
<br><br> <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/box" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/box</a><br>- two screens, only five languages
<br><br>Seeing these entries, keep in mind that ideally all entries, not just the
<br>English ones, ought to be as comprehensive in the amount and type of
<br>information offered (in everything but the translation sections, which of
<br>course are generally only placed on entries for the wiki's native
<br>language). There *ought* to be, according to the way en.wikt structures
<br>its information, enough information to have as long a table of contents as
<br>[[lead]] or [[iron]] for each entry. If you can see more than one or two
<br>languages in the table of contents at a time, that's generally a sign
<br>you're looking at *stubs*. But the wiki shouldn't be designed for stubs,
<br>but for properly-sized articles.
<br><br><br><br> *Muke!
<br>[1] <a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9712a.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9712a.html</a><br> >> [P]ages that can be markedly improved with a scrolling
<br> >> design may be made as long as necessary, though it should
<br> >> be a rare exception to go beyond three screenfulls on
<br> >> an average monitor.
<br>[2] <a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20050711.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20050711.html</a><br> >> In any case, all key information should be visible on the
<br> >> initial screen because scrolling can cause accessibility
<br> >> problems:
<br> >> * The additional action that scrolling requires can be
<br> >> difficult for users with motor skill impairments.
<br> >> * Low-literacy users can't easily reacquire their position
<br> >> in the text after it moves.
<br> >> * Elderly users often have trouble getting to the right
<br> >> spot in scrolling menus and other small scrolling items.
<br>[3] <a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/screen_resolution.html" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/screen_resolution.html</a><br> >> [S]crolling is always a key consideration. Users generally
<br> don't like to scroll [...]
<br>[4] <a href="http://blog.clicktale.com/2006/12/23/unfolding-the-fold/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://blog.clicktale.com/2006/12/23/unfolding-the-fold/</a><br>--
<br><a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19011994&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19007584Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-15T18:01:25Z2008-08-15T18:01:25ZTest Pilot>> First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word
<br>>> mean in second/third language.
<br>>You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for more
<br>>easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not looking for?
<br><br>It make it more harder - for many languages definitions user will HAVE TO
<br>make an extra mouse click.
<br>Plus you can feed your curiosity about what word in question mean in other
<br>languages just by scrolling - without need for multiple mouse clicks.
<br><br>>> It will also make user less likely to edit second third language
<br>>> definition, especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor
<br>> >speaks more then 2 languages.
<br>>If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit information,
<br>>whatever page it's on.
<br><br>You seems to miss the point - if user don't see information/definition, he
<br>will never edit it. And there lots of editors, that fix or add definitions
<br>only when they use Wiktionary and see mistakes or missing information.
<br><br>>> Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
<br>>> less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can
<br>>> use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.
<br>>You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it
<br>>side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you
<br>>want to compare bits of information?
<br><br>I mean what I said - with current system you have NO NEED to make an extra
<br>clicks at all if word defined using up to 3 or 4 languages - and there a LOT
<br>of words like that.
<br><br>If you prefer multiple clicking over mouse scrolling - then current way
<br>don't have advantages over proposed one. On the other hand, proposed one
<br>don't advantages over current one either.
<br><br><br>>Really? On <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a</a> I get six screens of
<br>>"Contents" to scroll through to see everything, and it's only got thirty
<br>>languages and "Translingual" on it.
<br><br>I use Wiktionary daily and look up lots of words different languages. I
<br>never had a problem finding definition using "Contents", and in fact in most
<br>cases I don't have to look/click contents menu.
<br>Simple scrolling is more then enough usually. And that is fun, from time to
<br>time, to check what word in question mean in weird languadge...
<br><br>Sorry to hear you, Muke, have difficulties using/find it inconvinient to use
<br>Contents to find proper language definition. Is [[en:wikt:a]] article is a
<br>real word example? Like you come across lots of articles that got MULTIPLE
<br>screens of "Contents" menu? From my personal experience, I think I never saw
<br>one. I mean during usual, real life usage of Wiktionary. But it could be
<br>possible that we got very different search pattern behavior. If problem
<br>widespread and real, could you please provide few, like 5 or six examples of
<br>such words you expirienced in real life Wiktionary use? I really curiouse,
<br>what type of words will be that.
<br><br>And, if that is the case, could it be possible that we could improve
<br>"Contents" menu itself, ruther then make an extra menu on top of the screen
<br>PLUS remove/destroy some functionality that is already there.
<br><br>Vitaly, aka TestPilot, author of WikiLook (Firefox extantion,
<br><a href="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7675" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7675</a>)
<br><br>On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Muke Tever <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19007584&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">muke@...</a>> wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Vitaly V. <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19007584&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dr.vitall@...</a>> wrote:
<br>> > First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word
<br>> > mean in second/third language.
<br>>
<br>> You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for more
<br>> easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not looking for?
<br>>
<br>> > It will also make user less likely to edit second third language
<br>> > definition, especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor
<br>> > speaks more then 2 languages.
<br>>
<br>> If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit information,
<br>> whatever page it's on. I suspect, as well, that people who habitually
<br>> edit two or more languages are used to finding the information for
<br>> corresponding words on different pages; having them on the same page is
<br>> merely a bonus (and increasingly less of a bonus on those future pages
<br>> that may have entries for over a hundred languages on them).
<br>>
<br>> > Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
<br>> > less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can
<br>> > use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.
<br>>
<br>> You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it
<br>> side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you
<br>> want to compare bits of information? I don't know about your browser, but
<br>> in mine it's _more_ convenient to open a link in a new tab than to
<br>> duplicate one.
<br>>
<br>> > In terms of language selection convenience, we already got "Contents"
<br>> > menu with all languages clearly visible.
<br>>
<br>> Really? On <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a</a> I get six screens of
<br>> "Contents" to scroll through to see everything, and it's only got thirty
<br>> languages and "Translingual" on it. (There's also a screen's worth of
<br>> categories at the bottom to boot.) Even without adding more languages
<br>> it'll be a lot less 'clearly visible' once more of the entries start
<br>> progressing beyond the stub level and accumulate subheadings.
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> *Muke!
<br>> --
<br>> <a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br>>
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19007584&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19007584&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19004948Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-15T13:19:13Z2008-08-15T13:19:13ZMuke TeverVitaly V. <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19004948&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">dr.vitall@...</a>> wrote:
<br>> First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word
<br>> mean in second/third language.
<br><br>You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for more
<br>easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not looking for?
<br><br>> It will also make user less likely to edit second third language
<br>> definition, especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor
<br>> speaks more then 2 languages.
<br><br>If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit information,
<br>whatever page it's on. I suspect, as well, that people who habitually
<br>edit two or more languages are used to finding the information for
<br>corresponding words on different pages; having them on the same page is
<br>merely a bonus (and increasingly less of a bonus on those future pages
<br>that may have entries for over a hundred languages on them).
<br><br>> Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
<br>> less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can
<br>> use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.
<br><br>You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it
<br>side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you
<br>want to compare bits of information? I don't know about your browser, but
<br>in mine it's _more_ convenient to open a link in a new tab than to
<br>duplicate one.
<br><br>> In terms of language selection convenience, we already got "Contents"
<br>> menu with all languages clearly visible.
<br><br>Really? On <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a</a> I get six screens of
<br>"Contents" to scroll through to see everything, and it's only got thirty
<br>languages and "Translingual" on it. (There's also a screen's worth of
<br>categories at the bottom to boot.) Even without adding more languages
<br>it'll be a lot less 'clearly visible' once more of the entries start
<br>progressing beyond the stub level and accumulate subheadings.
<br><br><br><br> *Muke!
<br>--
<br><a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19004948&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-19002880Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-15T10:48:20Z2008-08-15T10:48:20ZTest PilotFirst, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word mean in
<br>second/third language.
<br>It will also make user less likely to edit second third language definition,
<br>especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor speaks more
<br>then 2 languages.
<br>Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
<br>less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can use
<br>scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.
<br><br>In terms of language selection convenience, we already got "Contents" menu
<br>with all languages clearly visible.
<br><br>Vitaly
<br><br>On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Анатолій Гончаров <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19002880&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">ahonc.ua@...</a>>wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make
<br>> tabs
<br>> for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made example
<br>> here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made another
<br>> example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these examples use
<br>> subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be made
<br>> using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br>>
<br>> --
<br>> Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>> mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19002880&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19002880&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=19002880&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18979519Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-14T04:04:16Z2008-08-14T04:04:16ZGerard Meijssen-3Hoi,
<br>Try the word Niue, we have a selection of languages that know this word in
<br>OmegaWiki. I agree with Muke that another interface can be found that will
<br>do a better job. Even for this word you will not find 7000 languages,
<br>obviously different scripts makes for smaller collections.
<br>Thanks,
<br> GerardM
<br><br><a href="http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php?title=DefinedMeaning:Niue%20(631572)&dataset=uw" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php?title=DefinedMeaning:Niue%20(631572)&dataset=uw</a><br><br>On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Анатолій Гончаров <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">ahonc.ua@...</a>>wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Gerard, do you know words which used in 7000 languages?
<br>>
<br>> 2008/8/14 Gerard Meijssen <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>>
<br>>
<br>> > Hoi,
<br>> > If it becomes ugly after 15 languages, consider that there are something
<br>> > like over 7000 languages out there. This is not taking into account
<br>> > dialects
<br>> > and other linguistic entities that would make for something like over
<br>> > 30.000.
<br>> > Thanks,
<br>> > GerardM
<br>> >
<br>> > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Conrad Irwin
<br>> > <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">conrad.irwin@...</a>>wrote:
<br>> >
<br>> > > It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However
<br>> > the
<br>> > > tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too
<br>> > many
<br>> > > other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each
<br>> section
<br>> > -
<br>> > > but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.
<br>> > >
<br>> > > The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all
<br>> language
<br>> > > headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document
<br>> > and
<br>> > > moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement
<br>> in
<br>> > > javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language
<br>> heading
<br>> > > within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
<br>> > > tougher.
<br>> > >
<br>> > > The other thing to think about is Category links, do you want to split
<br>> > them
<br>> > > into languages too, that could be the trickiest bit.
<br>> > >
<br>> > > It becomes a little ugly after 15 or so languages, as the bar of tabs
<br>> > > begins
<br>> > > to take up a noticeable amount of the screen space, and so the useful
<br>> > > information gets pushed further down out of sight.
<br>> > >
<br>> > >
<br>> > > It would in some ways be nice to have each language separated by some
<br>> PHP
<br>> > > allowing this effect for anonymous users too, but that leads to further
<br>> > > issues with urls and it would not be a trivial extension to write.
<br>> > >
<br>> > > Conrad
<br>> > >
<br>> > >
<br>> > >
<br>> > >
<br>> > > 2008/8/13 Gerard Meijssen <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>>
<br>> > >
<br>> > > > Hoi,
<br>> > > > How many languages do you currently support? What would be the
<br>> maximum
<br>> > > that
<br>> > > > you could safely support ??
<br>> > > > Thanks,
<br>> > > > GerardM
<br>> > > >
<br>> > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua@
<br>> gmail.com
<br>> > > > >wrote:
<br>> > > >
<br>> > > > > Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to
<br>> > make
<br>> > > > > tabs
<br>> > > > > for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made
<br>> > > > example
<br>> > > > > here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made
<br>> > > > another
<br>> > > > > example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these
<br>> examples
<br>> > > use
<br>> > > > > subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it
<br>> be
<br>> > > > made
<br>> > > > > using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br>> > > > >
<br>> > > > > --
<br>> > > > > Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>> > > > > mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=4" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> > > > > _______________________________________________
<br>> > > > > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > > > > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=5" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > > > > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> > > > >
<br>> > > > _______________________________________________
<br>> > > > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > > > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=6" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > > > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> > > >
<br>> > > _______________________________________________
<br>> > > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=7" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> > >
<br>> > _______________________________________________
<br>> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=8" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> >
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> --
<br>> Анатолій Гончаров
<br>> mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=9" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=10" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979519&i=11" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18979355Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-14T03:47:50Z2008-08-14T03:47:50ZMuke TeverOn Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:34:03 -0600, Gerard Meijssen
<br><<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979355&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>> wrote:
<br><br>> Hoi,
<br>> How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum
<br>> that
<br>> you could safely support ??
<br><br>It's just a fancy format for a disambiguation page. That particular
<br>design may not extend well, but in principle one could be devised to
<br>handle as many languages as necessary.
<br><br><br> *Muke!
<br>--
<br><a href="http://frath.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://frath.net/</a><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18979355&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18978150Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-14T02:06:17Z2008-08-14T02:06:17ZАнатолій ГончаровGerard, do you know words which used in 7000 languages?
<br><br>2008/8/14 Gerard Meijssen <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>>
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Hoi,
<br>> If it becomes ugly after 15 languages, consider that there are something
<br>> like over 7000 languages out there. This is not taking into account
<br>> dialects
<br>> and other linguistic entities that would make for something like over
<br>> 30.000.
<br>> Thanks,
<br>> GerardM
<br>>
<br>> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Conrad Irwin
<br>> <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">conrad.irwin@...</a>>wrote:
<br>>
<br>> > It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However
<br>> the
<br>> > tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too
<br>> many
<br>> > other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each section
<br>> -
<br>> > but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.
<br>> >
<br>> > The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all language
<br>> > headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document
<br>> and
<br>> > moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement in
<br>> > javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language heading
<br>> > within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
<br>> > tougher.
<br>> >
<br>> > The other thing to think about is Category links, do you want to split
<br>> them
<br>> > into languages too, that could be the trickiest bit.
<br>> >
<br>> > It becomes a little ugly after 15 or so languages, as the bar of tabs
<br>> > begins
<br>> > to take up a noticeable amount of the screen space, and so the useful
<br>> > information gets pushed further down out of sight.
<br>> >
<br>> >
<br>> > It would in some ways be nice to have each language separated by some PHP
<br>> > allowing this effect for anonymous users too, but that leads to further
<br>> > issues with urls and it would not be a trivial extension to write.
<br>> >
<br>> > Conrad
<br>> >
<br>> >
<br>> >
<br>> >
<br>> > 2008/8/13 Gerard Meijssen <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>>
<br>> >
<br>> > > Hoi,
<br>> > > How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum
<br>> > that
<br>> > > you could safely support ??
<br>> > > Thanks,
<br>> > > GerardM
<br>> > >
<br>> > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> > > >wrote:
<br>> > >
<br>> > > > Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to
<br>> make
<br>> > > > tabs
<br>> > > > for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made
<br>> > > example
<br>> > > > here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made
<br>> > > another
<br>> > > > example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these examples
<br>> > use
<br>> > > > subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be
<br>> > > made
<br>> > > > using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br>> > > >
<br>> > > > --
<br>> > > > Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>> > > > mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=4" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> > > > _______________________________________________
<br>> > > > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > > > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=5" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > > > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> > > >
<br>> > > _______________________________________________
<br>> > > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=6" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> > >
<br>> > _______________________________________________
<br>> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=7" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> >
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=8" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div><br><br><br>--
<br>Анатолій Гончаров
<br>mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=9" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18978150&i=10" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18972978Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-13T16:14:06Z2008-08-13T16:14:06ZGerard Meijssen-3Hoi,
<br>If it becomes ugly after 15 languages, consider that there are something
<br>like over 7000 languages out there. This is not taking into account dialects
<br>and other linguistic entities that would make for something like over
<br>30.000.
<br>Thanks,
<br> GerardM
<br><br>On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Conrad Irwin
<br><<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">conrad.irwin@...</a>>wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However the
<br>> tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too many
<br>> other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each section -
<br>> but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.
<br>>
<br>> The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all language
<br>> headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document and
<br>> moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement in
<br>> javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language heading
<br>> within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
<br>> tougher.
<br>>
<br>> The other thing to think about is Category links, do you want to split them
<br>> into languages too, that could be the trickiest bit.
<br>>
<br>> It becomes a little ugly after 15 or so languages, as the bar of tabs
<br>> begins
<br>> to take up a noticeable amount of the screen space, and so the useful
<br>> information gets pushed further down out of sight.
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> It would in some ways be nice to have each language separated by some PHP
<br>> allowing this effect for anonymous users too, but that leads to further
<br>> issues with urls and it would not be a trivial extension to write.
<br>>
<br>> Conrad
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>>
<br>> 2008/8/13 Gerard Meijssen <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>>
<br>>
<br>> > Hoi,
<br>> > How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum
<br>> that
<br>> > you could safely support ??
<br>> > Thanks,
<br>> > GerardM
<br>> >
<br>> > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> > >wrote:
<br>> >
<br>> > > Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make
<br>> > > tabs
<br>> > > for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made
<br>> > example
<br>> > > here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made
<br>> > another
<br>> > > example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these examples
<br>> use
<br>> > > subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be
<br>> > made
<br>> > > using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br>> > >
<br>> > > --
<br>> > > Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>> > > mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> > > _______________________________________________
<br>> > > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=4" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> > >
<br>> > _______________________________________________
<br>> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=5" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> >
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=6" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972978&i=7" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18972665Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-13T15:48:05Z2008-08-13T15:48:05ZConrad IrwinIt can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However the
<br>tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too many
<br>other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each section -
<br>but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.
<br><br>The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all language
<br>headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document and
<br>moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement in
<br>javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language heading
<br>within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
<br>tougher.
<br><br>The other thing to think about is Category links, do you want to split them
<br>into languages too, that could be the trickiest bit.
<br><br>It becomes a little ugly after 15 or so languages, as the bar of tabs begins
<br>to take up a noticeable amount of the screen space, and so the useful
<br>information gets pushed further down out of sight.
<br><br><br>It would in some ways be nice to have each language separated by some PHP
<br>allowing this effect for anonymous users too, but that leads to further
<br>issues with urls and it would not be a trivial extension to write.
<br><br>Conrad
<br><br><br><br><br>2008/8/13 Gerard Meijssen <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972665&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">gerard.meijssen@...</a>>
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Hoi,
<br>> How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum that
<br>> you could safely support ??
<br>> Thanks,
<br>> GerardM
<br>>
<br>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972665&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> >wrote:
<br>>
<br>> > Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make
<br>> > tabs
<br>> > for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made
<br>> example
<br>> > here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made
<br>> another
<br>> > example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these examples use
<br>> > subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be
<br>> made
<br>> > using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br>> >
<br>> > --
<br>> > Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>> > mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972665&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> > _______________________________________________
<br>> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> > <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972665&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> > <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>> >
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972665&i=4" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18972665&i=5" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18966726Re: Tabs for languages2008-08-13T09:34:03Z2008-08-13T09:34:03ZGerard Meijssen-3Hoi,
<br>How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum that
<br>you could safely support ??
<br>Thanks,
<br> GerardM
<br><br>On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18966726&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">ahonc.ua@...</a>>wrote:
<br><div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make
<br>> tabs
<br>> for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made example
<br>> here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made another
<br>> example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these examples use
<br>> subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be made
<br>> using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br>>
<br>> --
<br>> Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>> mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18966726&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18966726&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18966726&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18965620Tabs for languages2008-08-13T08:35:54Z2008-08-13T08:35:54ZАнатолій ГончаровSysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make tabs
<br>for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made example
<br>here: <a href="http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca</a> . I made another
<br>example: <a href="http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November</a> . But these examples use
<br>subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be made
<br>using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
<br><br>--
<br>Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
<br>mailto:<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18965620&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Ahonc.ua@...</a>
<br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=18965620&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-18009462Firefox add-on that define words using English Wiktionary2008-06-19T06:49:57Z2008-06-19T06:49:57ZTest PilotOpen source, GPL tool.
<br><br>You can check it using Mozilla web site: <a href="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7675" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7675</a> (registration required)
<br>or or from public hosting: <a href="http://www.autohotkey.net/~TePe/WikiLook.xpi" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.autohotkey.net/~TePe/WikiLook.xpi</a> (right click, Save Link As, and then open file using Firefox).
<br><br>I'm looking for someone who can give a hand with development.
<br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-17797899Re: having trouble downloading images and audio for wiktionary2008-06-12T04:41:06Z2008-06-12T04:41:06ZDennis C. DuringYou would want the tech list, I think. Good luck with the project.
<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
<br> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<br> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17797899&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">wikitech-l-request@...</a>
<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at
<br> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17797899&i=1" target="_top" rel="nofollow">wikitech-l-owner@...</a>
<br><br><br>On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Bryan Berry <<a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17797899&i=2" target="_top" rel="nofollow">bryan@...</a>> wrote:
<div class='shrinkable-quote'><br>> hey guys, I am trying to set up a mirror of English Wiktionary for
<br>> Nepal's OLPC pilots and encountering some problems. I am using wikix to
<br>> generate the download scripts for the images and audio. 1) How do I
<br>> download the audio and 2) are the image and commons paths different than
<br>> that for wikipedia?
<br>>
<br>> thanks for your help
<br>>
<br>> --
<br>> Bryan W. Berry
<br>> Systems Engineer
<br>> OLE Nepal, <a href="http://www.olenepal.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.olenepal.org</a><br>>
<br>>
<br>> _______________________________________________
<br>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17797899&i=3" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br>>
</div><br><br><br>--
<br>Dennis C. During
<br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17797899&i=4" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-17794159having trouble downloading images and audio for wiktionary2008-06-12T00:32:09Z2008-06-12T00:32:09ZBryan Berry-4hey guys, I am trying to set up a mirror of English Wiktionary for
<br>Nepal's OLPC pilots and encountering some problems. I am using wikix to
<br>generate the download scripts for the images and audio. 1) How do I
<br>download the audio and 2) are the image and commons paths different than
<br>that for wikipedia?
<br><br>thanks for your help
<br><br>--
<br>Bryan W. Berry
<br>Systems Engineer
<br>OLE Nepal, <a href="http://www.olenepal.org" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.olenepal.org</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Wiktionary-l mailing list
<br><a href="http://www.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=post&post=17794159&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary-l@...</a>
<br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l" target="_top" rel="nofollow">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l</a><br><p>From forum: <a href="http://www.nabble.com/Wiktionary-General-f14043.html" embed="fixTarget[14043]" target="_top" >Wiktionary General</a></p>tag:www.nabble.com,2006:post-17652918Important new edit patrolling features available2008-06-04T11:06:38Z2008-06-04T11:06:38ZErik Moeller-4As of today, the "FlaggedRevs" extension is available to any wiki
<br>community that wishes to use it. FlaggedRevs is a tool for patrolling
<br>changes, identifying high quality article versions, and changing the
<br>default version shown to unregistered users. It's highly configurable.
<br>As such, we're making it available in two configurations:
<br><br>1) A minimally intrusive "patrolling" configuration;
<br>2) Custom configurations per your request.
<br><br>== Who needs this feature and where can I see it? ==
<br><br>Larger wiki communities will probably benefit more from the use of
<br>this feature than smaller ones. If you have problems keeping vandalism
<br>in check, and/or want to experiment with new ways to identify high
<br>quality content, you should look into this functionality.
<br><br>You can see an English language demo installation of the feature at:
<br><a href="http://en.labs.wikimedia.org/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.labs.wikimedia.org/</a><br><br>The feature is in production use on the German Wikipedia:
<br><a href="http://de.wikipedia.org/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://de.wikipedia.org/</a><br><br>The German Wikipedia uses a custom configuration where the most recent
<br>vandalism-patrolled version, if any, is shown to unregistered users.
<br>You can track the progress of their use of the patrolling feature
<br>here:
<br><br><a href="http://tools.wikimedia.de/~aka/cgi-bin/reviewcnt.cgi?lang=english" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://tools.wikimedia.de/~aka/cgi-bin/reviewcnt.cgi?lang=english</a><br><br>== Patrolling Configuration ==
<br><br>In the Patrolling Configuration, any user who has been registered for
<br>more than 21 days and has made at least 150 edits will be
<br>automatically given the permission to patrol changes for vandalism.
<br>Only changes made by users who are not permitted to patrol changes
<br>need to be patrolled.
<br><br>In addition, sysops will be given the permission to flag versions of
<br>"featured articles" in accordance with existing nomination processes.
<br>(In other words, this gives you the ability to identify specific
<br>_versions_ of an article as "featured", rather than the article as a
<br>whole.) Finally, sysops will be permitted to define on a per-page
<br>basis that changes need to be patrolled before being visible to
<br>unregistered readers. This is an alternative to semi-protection; it
<br>doesn't make sense to use both on a given page.
<br><br>The use of these features is subject to policies that your wiki
<br>community will need to develop. They should be used carefully until
<br>such a policy is in place.
<br><br>To activate the patrolling configuration,
<br><br>1) File a request on <a href="http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/</a> of type
<br>"enhancement", component "site request". You may need to create a
<br>BugZilla account to do this.
<br><br>2) Title your request "Enable FlaggedRevs Patrolling Configuration on
<br>(my project name)".
<br><br>3) Post a link to your BugZilla request to your project's "Village
<br>pump" and mailing list, if available.
<br><br>If there are no objections on the BugZilla page, the request will be
<br>considered valid after 7 days. (It may still take a while longer to
<br>process it.)
<br><br>== Custom Configurations ==
<br><br>The FlaggedRevs extension is highly flexible in its configuration. We
<br>are willing to accommodate custom requests. Since some configurations
<br>of FlaggedRevs could be considered highly disruptive, the requirements
<br>are somewhat higher.
<br><br>1) Read about the configuration options at:
<br><a href="http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs</a><br>and experiment with the live demo at:
<br><a href="http://en.labs.wikimedia.org/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://en.labs.wikimedia.org/</a><br><br>2) Create a page in the "Project:" namespace (e.g. "Wikipedia:",
<br>"Wikibooks:") of your wiki community describing the configuration you
<br>want to use.
<br><br>3) Create a BugZilla request as above, titled "Enable FlaggedRevs
<br>custom configuration on (my project name)" pointing to the proposal
<br>page you have created. Provide an English translation of all relevant
<br>information if possible - or we may not be able to help you.
<br><br>4) Post a link to your proposal and to the BugZilla request to the
<br>various relevant channels of your wiki community, e.g. "village pump",
<br>mailing list.
<br><br>If there are no objections within 14 days, your request will be
<br>considered valid. If there are objections, please try building
<br>consensus. If necessary, you can also resort to a poll (a very large
<br>majority, at least two thirds, is generally necessary).
<br><br>Note that custom configurations will take longer to process, and might
<br>sit in the technical support queue for several weeks.
<br><br>Our developers will _only_ look at the information attached to the
<br>BugZilla request, so please make sure that everything relevant is at
<br>least linked from there.
<br><br>== Translators needed ==
<br><br>The user interface of the FlaggedRevs extension needs to be translated
<br>into as many languages as possible. The extension can be localized
<br>using <a href="http://translatewiki.net/" target="_top" rel="nofollow">http://translatewiki.net/</a> - please follow the instructions there
<br>to become a translator.
<br><br>== User interface developers needed ==
<br><br>If you are a PHP developer with JavaScript/CSS experience, your help
<br>in impro