Where might you get the time?

[Jan Roy]

Hello,
 
Our standards documents recommend ways of increasing student understanding of the mathematics they are learning.  One way is to change the way we're teaching, making our classrooms more student-centered and less teacher-centered.  For example, you might now be using an activity-oriented approach which takes much greater classroom time than more traditional formats.  I'm wondering if and how any of you have dealt with the problem of the extra time required to teach differently.
 
Have any of you
 
 1)  increased the number of contact hours you spend with students?  
 
 
2)  increased the number of credit hours of your courses?  
 
 
3)  cut the amount of content covered in your courses?
 
 
4)  dealt with the situation in another way?
 
 
Thank you for any ideas you can share!
 
Jan Roy
janr@...
Montcalm Community College
Sidney, Michigan
 
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[Mowers, Kathy (Owensboro)]

I speaking as someone from another state and each state has their own difficulties.  We have different situations, which started similarly and ended differently. 

 

For intermediate algebra, when we moved toward increased collaboration and in class activities and less lecturing, we began offering a 4-hour (credit and contact) intermediate algebra class (chosen by the college or not).  Now, some faculty never moved very far and even those who were on the front edge have moved back.  Locally some of us have proposed changing back to the 3-hour intermediate algebra, and we've encountered great resistance.  So they are just lecturing for 4 hours a week rather than 3.  When we made the original change, intermediate algebra did not carry any credit toward graduation.  Now it carries elective credit toward graduation in the community college system.  I believe there are only 3 colleges left in our 15 college system that teach the 4-hour intermediate algebra class.  In the fall, all but one of our intermediate algebra classes will be taught as hybrid classes (3 hours on campus, 1 hour online).  The one instructor who is so strongly opposed to the change is not teaching intermediate algebra this fall.  :-(

 

We have workshops that can accompany classes.  The only one we use is the workshop for college algebra.  It is tied to a particular college algebra class and earns 2 hours elective credit.  I'm not convinced that this is a good idea, because we get a homogeneous group of students with an ACT (or COMPASS placement equivalent) of 18 or 19.  College Algebra without the workshop requires an ACT of 20 or a passing grade in intermediate algebra.

 

Years ago, the University of Kentucky changed our Calculus I, II, and III courses to 5 contact hours and 4 credit hours (it has something to do with the activities that the graduate students led).  Many of us were teaching the 5 contact hours already, but at that time it changed from voluntary to required.  This did not sit well; although we knew that our students needed the extra contact time, which was often spent using Maple and then the TI 92.  A couple of years ago, the community college system approved a 5 credit/5 contact hour calculus course.

 

If you decide to go the extra hours as an option, I strongly recommend that you write your description and competencies in such a manner that it is clear that the extra hour is for active student participation.

 

 

Kathy Mowers

AMATYC Past President

Owensboro CTC

4800 New Hartford Road

Owensboro, KY  42303-1899

 

---

From: Jan Roy
Sent: Mon 3/3/2008 2:05 PM
To: mathedcc@...
Subject: Where might you get the time?

Hello,
 
Our standards documents recommend ways of increasing student understanding of the mathematics they are learning.  One way is to change the way we're teaching, making our classrooms more student-centered and less teacher-centered.  For example, you might now be using an activity-oriented approach which takes much greater classroom time than more traditional formats.  I'm wondering if and how any of you have dealt with the problem of the extra time required to teach differently.
 
Have any of you
 
 1)  increased the number of contact hours you spend with students?  
 
 
2)  increased the number of credit hours of your courses?  
 
 
3)  cut the amount of content covered in your courses?
 
 
4)  dealt with the situation in another way?
 
 
Thank you for any ideas you can share!
 
Jan Roy
janr@...
Montcalm Community College
Sidney, Michigan 
 
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[Alain Schremmer]

On Mar 3, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Jan Roy wrote:

> Our standards documents recommend ways of increasing student  
> understanding of the mathematics they are learning.

Mm. Your "standard documents" would seem to construe "learning" in a,  
er, rather highly biased manner. Begging the question so to speak.

While I agree with

> 3)  cut the amount of content covered in your courses?


because the current amounts are totally unrealistic and imply a  
coverage thinner than the paper it is printed on, I would respond to

> 4)  dealt with the situation in another way?


by suggesting organizing the contents so as to turn them from the  
usual succession of completely unrelated topics into a tightly  
logical progression.

Regards
--Schremmer
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[Robert Kimball]

Jan,

Whe NC switched from quarters to semesters around 1996, we constructed our courses in a 3-2-4 format (lecture-lab-credit).  The two lab-hours are not required, but many college in NC use the 3-2-4 format.  I was fortunate to have been involved with Crossroads and the "mathematics as a laboratory discipline" statement made a difference.

However, not everyone can add additional class time, and even when you do you are still pressed for time.

I would make the point that it isn't how much time you have it is what you do with the time you have. They may sound trivial but it is not.   I heard Arnold Packer (SCANS)   (at west point in 2001) say who decided that what is in your courses is important?  You cover so much, so many topics, how much of that do you really think your students will remember, much less be able to use, a month after exams?

What I am convinced of is that we have to remove a great deal of topics "we" think are important and must be taught in favor of teaching the topics that are left well and deeply.  We need to stay on task long enough for students to "internalize" (a word Mary Ann Hovis used to use a lot in our CRAFTY work) the concepts.

It is like this -
suppose you had two days in June to see Disney World.
You COULD just walk around the theme park and be sure you SAW every ride and every attraction.  You would be able to see most of the things that make Disney World special. But, you would not have experienced what is there and is meant to be enjoyed.
You COULD get to as many rides as you could, the ones with the shortest lines. You would have ridden some rides and could say that you did.  However, you would have missed some good rides that are worth the time to spend in line for.
OR
You COULD research the rides and decide what rides want to experience and make a plan to get that accomplished.

Many math faculty have taught classes that run through material and the students never get to experience real mathematics.

Change is tough - but it needs to happen.
EVEN the national math panel said so !!!!



 


Robert L Kimball (rlkimball@...)
Department Head, Mathematics and Physics
919-866-5960
www.waketech.edu/~rlkimbal
www.waketech.edu/math

>>> "Jan Roy" <JanR@...> 3/3/08 3:05 pm >>>
Hello,
 
Our standards documents recommend ways of increasing student understanding of the mathematics they are learning.  One way is to change the way we're teaching, making our classrooms more student-centered and less teacher-centered.  For example, you might now be using an activity-oriented approach which takes much greater classroom time than more traditional formats.  I'm wondering if and how any of you have dealt with the problem of the extra time required to teach differently.
 
Have any of you
 
 1)  increased the number of contact hours you spend with students?  
 
 
2)  increased the number of credit hours of your courses?  
 
 
3)  cut the amount of content covered in your courses?
 
 
4)  dealt with the situation in another way?
 
 
Thank you for any ideas you can share!
 
Jan Roy
janr@...
Montcalm Community College
Sidney, Michigan
 
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[Alain Schremmer]

On Mar 26, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Robert Kimball wrote:

> Jan,
>
> Whe NC switched from quarters to semesters around 1996, we  
> constructed our courses in a 3-2-4 format (lecture-lab-credit).  
> The two lab-hours are not required, but many college in NC use the  
> 3-2-4 format.  I was fortunate to have been involved with  
> Crossroads and the "mathematics as a laboratory discipline"  
> statement made a difference.
>
> However, not everyone can add additional class time, and even when  
> you do you are still pressed for time.
>
> I would make the point that it isn't how much time you have it is  
> what you do with the time you have. They may sound trivial but it  
> is not.   I heard Arnold Packer (SCANS)   (at west point in 2001)  
> say who decided that what is in your courses is important?  You  
> cover so much, so many topics, how much of that do you really think  
> your students will remember, much less be able to use, a month  
> after exams?

I think that both "use" and "remember" tell the tale and that what is  
important is for the students to learn how to make one's case, be it  
in court or in class.

> What I am convinced of is that we have to remove a great deal of  
> topics "we" think are important and must be taught in favor of  
> teaching the topics that are left well and deeply.

Here again, it is not the topics that are important but the way they  
are connected, the way people think their way from one idea to the  
next. Here is how Thurston puts it:

Mathematics is amazingly compressible: you may struggle a long time,  
step by
step, to work through some process or idea from several approaches.  
But once
you really understand it and have the mental perspective to see it as  
a whole,
there is often a tremendous mental compression. You can file it away,  
recall it
quickly and completely when you need it, and use it as just one step  
in some
other mental process. The insight that goes with this compression is  
one of the
real joys of mathematics. (Thurston 1990, p. 847.)

I think THAT is the only thing worth learning mathematics for. It  
never gets "used", it never gets "forgotten", it just shapes one's mind.

Regards
--schremmer

P.S. I am not sure what "Thurston 1990" is. I found the quote in  
David Tall (MATHEMATICAL GROWTH: from Child to Mathematician,  
Journeys through Three Worlds of Mathematics), a book he is working  
on and which is on his site http://www.davidtall.com/

> We need to stay on task long enough for students to  
> "internalize" (a word Mary Ann Hovis used to use a lot in our  
> CRAFTY work) the concepts.
>
> It is like this -
> suppose you had two days in June to see Disney World.
> You COULD just walk around the theme park and be sure you SAW every  
> ride and every attraction.  You would be able to see most of the  
> things that make Disney World special. But, you would not have  
> experienced what is there and is meant to be enjoyed.
> You COULD get to as many rides as you could, the ones with the  
> shortest lines. You would have ridden some rides and could say that  
> you did.  However, you would have missed some good rides that are  
> worth the time to spend in line for.
> OR
> You COULD research the rides and decide what rides want to  
> experience and make a plan to get that accomplished.
>
> Many math faculty have taught classes that run through material and  
> the students never get to experience real mathematics.
>
> Change is tough - but it needs to happen.
> EVEN the national math panel said so !!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert L Kimball (rlkimball@...)
> Department Head, Mathematics and Physics
> 919-866-5960
> www.waketech.edu/~rlkimbal
> www.waketech.edu/math
>
>>>> "Jan Roy" <JanR@...> 3/3/08 3:05 pm >>>
> Hello,
>
> Our standards documents recommend ways of increasing student  
> understanding of the mathematics they are learning.  One way is to  
> change the way we're teaching, making our classrooms more student-
> centered and less teacher-centered.  For example, you might now be  
> using an activity-oriented approach which takes much greater  
> classroom time than more traditional formats.  I'm wondering if and  
> how any of you have dealt with the problem of the extra time  
> required to teach differently.
>
> Have any of you
>
>  1)  increased the number of contact hours you spend with students?
>
>
> 2)  increased the number of credit hours of your courses?
>
>
> 3)  cut the amount of content covered in your courses?
>
>
> 4)  dealt with the situation in another way?
>
>
> Thank you for any ideas you can share!
>
> Jan Roy
> janr@...
> Montcalm Community College
> Sidney, Michigan
>
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[Mark Riggs]

>
> P.S. I am not sure what "Thurston 1990" is.

Thurston, W. P. (1990). Mathematical Education, Notices of the American Mathematical Society, 37 7, 844-850
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[Alain Schremmer]

On Mar 27, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Mark Riggs wrote:
>>
>> P.S. I am not sure what "Thurston 1990" is.
>
> Thurston, W. P. (1990). Mathematical Education, Notices of the  
> American Mathematical Society, 37 7, 844-850

Actually, someone had sent me the following off list:

> The quote below is found in a paper by David Tall
> Understanding the Processes of Advanced Mathematical Thinking, by  
> David Tall
> An invited ICMI lecture at the International Congress of  
> Mathematicians, Zurich, August, 1994.
> References:Thurston, W. P.: 1990. Mathematical Education, Notices  
> of the American Mathematical Society, 37 7, 844-850.


  But then, shame on me, I forgot to pass it on to this list! :-(

Thanks and best regards
--schremmer
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[Crowley, Lillie F (Bluegrass)]

That paper by Thurston is (IMHO) WONDERFUL. It's one of the things that spurred me to do a Ph.D. with David Tall. Not sure how many times I've read it, but it's a lot. I highly recommend it.
 
Cheers, Lillie
 
Lillie R.F. Crowley, Ph.D.
138 Moloney Building, 470 Cooper Drive
Bluegrass Community and Technical College
Lexington, KY 40506-0235
[phone] (note new phone number)
lillie.crowley@...

________________________________

From: owner-mathedcc@... on behalf of Alain Schremmer
Sent: Thu 3/27/2008 5:09 PM
To: mathedcc@...
Subject: Re: Where might you get the time?



On Mar 27, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Mark Riggs wrote:
>>
>> P.S. I am not sure what "Thurston 1990" is.
>
> Thurston, W. P. (1990). Mathematical Education, Notices of the
> American Mathematical Society, 37 7, 844-850

Actually, someone had sent me the following off list:

> The quote below is found in a paper by David Tall
> Understanding the Processes of Advanced Mathematical Thinking, by
> David Tall
> An invited ICMI lecture at the International Congress of
> Mathematicians, Zurich, August, 1994.
> References:Thurston, W. P.: 1990. Mathematical Education, Notices
> of the American Mathematical Society, 37 7, 844-850.


  But then, shame on me, I forgot to pass it on to this list! :-(

Thanks and best regards
- --schremmer
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[Alain Schremmer]

On Mar 29, 2008, at 2:55 PM, Crowley, Lillie F (Bluegrass) wrote:
> That paper by Thurston is (IMHO) WONDERFUL. It's one of the things  
> that spurred me to do a Ph.D. with David Tall.

Across the ocean? Is your thesis available somewhere?

> Not sure how many times I've read it, but it's a lot. I highly  
> recommend it.


Right now I can't remember if I read it back then but it's on my pile  
of things to read now along with the book Tall is writing which I did  
start to read.

Regards
--schremmer
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