What is on the back of the logo?

[Lennart Guldbrandsson]

Sorry for cross-posting this, but as Cbrown pointed out: not everybody reads
the logo page on Meta.

Anyway:

Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida>, the Swedish
chapter, are going to make a 3D version of the Wikipedia logo, a meter in
diameter. But this means that we need to know what is on the puzzle pieces
on the back of the globe. Which symbols are on the back?

It seems that we should probably have some official answer to this - or we
will have to improvise ourselves. This question needs to be answered by
September, at the very latest, when we are going to show the globe in front
of a 100 000 visitors of the Gothenburg Book Fair.

I know of at least one attempt to make puzzle globes for real, namely in
Taiwan, see picture
here<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_2007_dungodung_116.jpg>,
but it is not nearly good enough we feel. (Sorry, you who created it.)

Best wishes,

--
Lennart Guldbrandsson, chair of Wikimedia Sverige and press contact for
Swedish Wikipedia // ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige och presskontakt för
svenskspråkiga Wikipedia
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[Ting Chen-2]

> I know of at least one attempt to make puzzle globes for real, namely in
> Taiwan, see picture
> here<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_2007_dungodung_116.jpg>,
> but it is not nearly good enough we feel. (Sorry, you who created it.)

as far as I recall, the Taiwan ball has on its back the logos of the WikiMedia projects as well as the logos of the sponsors of Wikimania 2007. I personally think have the logos of our projects on the back is quite good and maybe that's enough to take the place?

Ting
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[Guillaume Paumier]

Hi,

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson
<wikihannibal@...> wrote:

> Sorry for cross-posting this, but as Cbrown pointed out: not everybody reads
> the logo page on Meta.
>
> Anyway:
>
> Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida>, the Swedish
> chapter, are going to make a 3D version of the Wikipedia logo, a meter in
> diameter. But this means that we need to know what is on the puzzle pieces
> on the back of the globe. Which symbols are on the back?
>
> It seems that we should probably have some official answer to this - or we
> will have to improvise ourselves.

My guess is that there will be no « official » answer to your
question, simply because there is nothing on the back. Either « be
bold » or look at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2007_Wikiball

--
Guillaume Paumier
[[m:User:guillom]]
« Quand on veut plaire dans le monde, il faut se résoudre à se laisser
apprendre beaucoup de choses qu'on sait par des gens qui les ignorent.
» Nicolas de Chamfort.
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[Ting Chen-2]

> My guess is that there will be no « official » answer to your
> question, simply because there is nothing on the back. Either « be
> bold » or look at
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2007_Wikiball

Yeah, this is the backside of the Taiwan-ball:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MR_Wikimania_1-07.jpg

The project logos are on the northpol and the sponsor-logos on the south. I still think the project logos would be nice. :-P Some other suggestion?

Ting
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[Guillaume Paumier]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, this is the backside of the Taiwan-ball:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MR_Wikimania_1-07.jpg
>
> The project logos are on the northpol and the sponsor-logos on the south. I still think the project logos would be nice. :-P Some other suggestion?

See also the mini-globe that each attendee got at Wikimania 2007; it
is slightly different from the big one:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_2007_puzzle_ball.jpg

--
Guillaume Paumier
[[m:User:guillom]]
« Quand on veut plaire dans le monde, il faut se résoudre à se laisser
apprendre beaucoup de choses qu'on sait par des gens qui les ignorent.
» Nicolas de Chamfort.
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[Titan Deng]

The little gift ball to every attendee is just too small to put all logos of
sponsors on it.
Although several of them expressed that they want their logo on the gift
puzzle ball,
but we rejected.

:)

Titan

2008/7/22 Guillaume Paumier <guillom.pom@...>:

> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, this is the backside of the Taiwan-ball:
> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MR_Wikimania_1-07.jpg
> >
> > The project logos are on the northpol and the sponsor-logos on the south.
> I still think the project logos would be nice. :-P Some other suggestion?
>
> See also the mini-globe that each attendee got at Wikimania 2007; it
> is slightly different from the big one:
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_2007_puzzle_ball.jpg
>
> --
> Guillaume Paumier
> [[m:User:guillom]]
> « Quand on veut plaire dans le monde, il faut se résoudre à se laisser
> apprendre beaucoup de choses qu'on sait par des gens qui les ignorent.
> » Nicolas de Chamfort.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@...
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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[Oldak Quill]

2008/7/22 Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp@...>:

>> My guess is that there will be no « official » answer to your
>> question, simply because there is nothing on the back. Either « be
>> bold » or look at
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2007_Wikiball
>
> Yeah, this is the backside of the Taiwan-ball:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MR_Wikimania_1-07.jpg
>
> The project logos are on the northpol and the sponsor-logos on the south. I still think the project logos would be nice. :-P Some other suggestion?
>
> Ting

Wouldn't it be better to continue symbols from different alphabets
around the surface of the sphere? It might be good for the community
to come up with or approve a complete 3D version of the Wikipedia
globe. We can produce a 3D prototype using CAD software.

As to which symbols: does the logo at present lack symbols from any
major alphabet? It might be a good opportunity to make our logo better
represent the communities Wikipedia includes.

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill@...)
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[Ting Chen-2]

> Wouldn't it be better to continue symbols from different alphabets
> around the surface of the sphere? It might be good for the community
> to come up with or approve a complete 3D version of the Wikipedia
> globe. We can produce a 3D prototype using CAD software.
>
> As to which symbols: does the logo at present lack symbols from any
> major alphabet? It might be a good opportunity to make our logo better
> represent the communities Wikipedia includes.
>
> --
> Oldak Quill (oldakquill@...)

I just realized that we are talking about the Wikipedia-logo, and not the WikiMedia-logo. So to put the other logos on its back is not such a good ideal (though maybe as small symbols on the south pole just to signal their relations?).

Do anyone know which writing systems we already have on the logo?

Ting
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[Gerard Meijssen-3]

Hoi,
PLEASE have one of the characters be one in SignWriting.. SignWriting allows
you to write any of the many sign languages... I would like to include the
"thank you" sign in American Sign Language... NB SignWriting is recognised
in the ISO 15924 Sgnw. There is a request for a Wikipedia in American Sign
Language..

The ASL "thank you" sign can be found on the last page of my presentation at
Wikimania 2008.

Thanks,
       GerardM



On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Oldak Quill <oldakquill@...> wrote:

> 2008/7/22 Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp@...>:
> >> My guess is that there will be no « official » answer to your
> >> question, simply because there is nothing on the back. Either « be
> >> bold » or look at
> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2007_Wikiball
> >
> > Yeah, this is the backside of the Taiwan-ball:
> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MR_Wikimania_1-07.jpg
> >
> > The project logos are on the northpol and the sponsor-logos on the south.
> I still think the project logos would be nice. :-P Some other suggestion?
> >
> > Ting
>
> Wouldn't it be better to continue symbols from different alphabets
> around the surface of the sphere? It might be good for the community
> to come up with or approve a complete 3D version of the Wikipedia
> globe. We can produce a 3D prototype using CAD software.
>
> As to which symbols: does the logo at present lack symbols from any
> major alphabet? It might be a good opportunity to make our logo better
> represent the communities Wikipedia includes.
>
> --
> Oldak Quill (oldakquill@...)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@...
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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[Andrew Whitworth-2]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen@...> wrote:
> Hoi,
> PLEASE have one of the characters be one in SignWriting.. SignWriting allows
> you to write any of the many sign languages... I would like to include the
> "thank you" sign in American Sign Language... NB SignWriting is recognised
> in the ISO 15924 Sgnw. There is a request for a Wikipedia in American Sign
> Language..
>
> The ASL "thank you" sign can be found on the last page of my presentation at
> Wikimania 2008.

I second this request. However, I would like to hear what the language
subcom has to say about the issue. It seems like it would cause hurt
feelings and mixed messages if we include SignWriting on the logo but
do not approve the SignWriting wikipedia.

I dont mean to put the languages subcom on the spot here, but I hope
they understand my reservations.

--Andrew Whitworth

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[Gerard Meijssen-3]

Hoi,
The language committee would like to approve this request. Sign languages
are recognised as languages by the ISO. There are only technical obstacles
that prevent the creation of an ase.wikipedia.org These are things that can
be solved one way or another.

NB When this is the time that we define what is on the back of the Wikipedia
globe, excluding SingWriting now means that it is excluded for ever.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Andrew Whitworth <wknight8111@...>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen@...> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > PLEASE have one of the characters be one in SignWriting.. SignWriting
> allows
> > you to write any of the many sign languages... I would like to include
> the
> > "thank you" sign in American Sign Language... NB SignWriting is
> recognised
> > in the ISO 15924 Sgnw. There is a request for a Wikipedia in American
> Sign
> > Language..
> >
> > The ASL "thank you" sign can be found on the last page of my presentation
> at
> > Wikimania 2008.
>
> I second this request. However, I would like to hear what the language
> subcom has to say about the issue. It seems like it would cause hurt
> feelings and mixed messages if we include SignWriting on the logo but
> do not approve the SignWriting wikipedia.
>
> I dont mean to put the languages subcom on the spot here, but I hope
> they understand my reservations.
>
> --Andrew Whitworth
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@...
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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[Ting Chen-2]

> NB When this is the time that we define what is on the back of the Wikipedia
> globe, excluding SingWriting now means that it is excluded for ever.

I support your suggestion, but would not see such a dramatic symbolism in this. Actually I am not sure that we are really discussion an expansion of the current logo in three dimensions (though I would also support such a move).

Ting.
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[geni]

2008/7/22 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@...>:
> Hoi,
> PLEASE have one of the characters be one in SignWriting.. SignWriting allows
> you to write any of the many sign languages... I would like to include the
> "thank you" sign in American Sign Language...

No. The letters on the globe roughly equate to "w" or "wi"

In any case there are quite a number of sign languages around but
their speaker numbers are fairly low thus it would be unreasonable to
give it priority over any alphabet used by a language with more than 3
million speakers.

--
geni

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[Michael Snow-3]

Guillaume Paumier wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson
> <wikihannibal@...> wrote:
>  
>> Sorry for cross-posting this, but as Cbrown pointed out: not everybody reads
>> the logo page on Meta.
>>
>> Anyway:
>>
>> Wikimedia Sverige <http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida>, the Swedish
>> chapter, are going to make a 3D version of the Wikipedia logo, a meter in
>> diameter. But this means that we need to know what is on the puzzle pieces
>> on the back of the globe. Which symbols are on the back?
>>
>> It seems that we should probably have some official answer to this - or we
>> will have to improvise ourselves.
>>    
>
> My guess is that there will be no « official » answer to your
> question, simply because there is nothing on the back. Either « be
> bold » or look at
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2007_Wikiball
>  

I would guess that the desire for an "official" answer has more to do
with simply going ahead. Since the project names and logos are in a
sense owned by the Wikimedia Foundation as trademarks, it would be nice
to have derivatives of them properly cleared. Please ask Sue or Mike
Godwin, but I don't expect it should be a big concern to have chapters
doing something like this.

As for what actually goes there, since the original concept came out of
the community, it makes sense to me for the community to be the one to
extend it. Whether that's more language characters, project logos, or
something else is up to them, and may depend on what it's for. I can see
that sponsor logos could fit in the context of an event with those
sponsors, but it wouldn't be appropriate elsewhere. So anyone can come
up with an idea that fits their needs. We don't need a definitive 3D
version, I don't anticipate changing the "official" logo from the
two-dimensional one anytime soon.

--Michael Snow



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[Gregory Maxwell]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Michael Snow <wikipedia@...> wrote:
> We don't need a definitive 3D
> version, I don't anticipate changing the "official" logo from the
> two-dimensional one anytime soon.

A good 3D version would be useful because it would allow us to derive
a good vector version of the logo. ... with the amount of interest in
the number of toys, schwag, etc, I'd suggest that we do create a
definitive 3D version.   The most obvious filler for the back would be
the rest of the "W" letters.

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[Tim Starling-2]

Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Michael Snow <wikipedia@...> wrote:
>> We don't need a definitive 3D
>> version, I don't anticipate changing the "official" logo from the
>> two-dimensional one anytime soon.
>
> A good 3D version would be useful because it would allow us to derive
> a good vector version of the logo. ... with the amount of interest in
> the number of toys, schwag, etc, I'd suggest that we do create a
> definitive 3D version.   The most obvious filler for the back would be
> the rest of the "W" letters.

There's been talk about reconstructing the 3D version for a while, mostly
because some of the characters are incorrectly mirrored. Apparently the
original 3D version was lost. So it would be great if someone could fix
that, make a back side, and transfer copyright of the resulting 3D model
to the Foundation.

It's easier to defend the trademark if you have the copyright as well,
which is why the Foundation obtained the copyright for the current logo.

-- Tim Starling


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[Aryeh Gregor]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:37 PM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:
> No. The letters on the globe roughly equate to "w" or "wi"

The Hebrew letter is a resh ("R" sound), and the Greek one is a
capital omega with smooth breathing (in ancient Greek a long "O"
sound, today a long "I" sound).  Doing a little research, the Cyrillic
is a "Y" sound.  The Japanese is the modern katakana representation of
"wi".  The Chinese character I have no idea how to look up, but
apparently it means "ancestor".  I don't recognize the writing system
that the one below it represents.  The rest are at an angle and I
can't even make out their shapes properly.

But anyway, the letters certainly don't all represent "w" sounds.  The
Hebrew should be a vav or double-vav, if that were the case.  The
closest equivalents in both Greek and Cyrillic (neither of which has a
"W" sound, I'm pretty sure) apparently both look exactly like a
capital B, admittedly, at least to judge by their Wikipedias' names,
so their current versions might be the most suitable if that were the
goal.  But I don't think that the goal was specifically to make them
"W" sounds.

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[Austin Hair]

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@...> wrote:
> A good 3D version would be useful because it would allow us to derive
> a good vector version of the logo. ... with the amount of interest in
> the number of toys, schwag, etc, I'd suggest that we do create a
> definitive 3D version.   The most obvious filler for the back would be
> the rest of the "W" letters.

Not that this is a reason not to do it, but we'll inevitably have
people asking for variant logos (different rotations) when their
project's script is represented on the "dark side" of the wikiball.
(And if we're being cynical, we can imagine an argument over which
view of the ball is best representative of our projects, or most
relevant, or most aesthetically pleasing, or what have you.)

Austin

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