Weird soneil charger behaviour

[Tim Gamber]

Hi everyone

I have had my electric motorcycle on the road now for a few weeks and have started to notice some strange float voltages. I have 6 12 volt AGM batteries 35 amp/h powering my bike and i think i may be having a charger failure but i am not sure. I have 6 soneil 1206 chargers that run off off 110 or 120 volts and 1 has been behaving funny. All my batteries seem to be charging perfectly fine all the way up to 14.7 volts where  the soneils then switch into float charging mode. All the batteries used to float at about 13.8 to 14.0 volts, but now the third battery in the string has started to float at 13.3 volts??? When i unplug the chargers and then plug them back in the voltage quickly rises to 14.7 volts and then back into float charging mode for all batteries except for the 3rd battery which just goes right back to 13.3 volts. When i drive the motorcycle all the voltages are very close and it seems to me that the 3rd battery is fully charged just like all the others. Will this !
 cause harm to the 3rd battery floating at 13.3, or am i having a charger failure? After i noticed the weird voltage i did notice that the chargers were getting very hot during charging so i installed a fan.......... Any Thoughts?

Thanks ,
Tim Gamber

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[Bob Martin-4]

Hi Tim, I would try to isolate the problem by swapping out the charger
you're using on battery #3 with one of the ones that you know is working OK.
That way you can figure out if it's the battery or the charger. If you
determine that you have a bad charger look at the warranty and contact
Soniel. If the battery is goofy, maybe it's still within it's warranty
period. I've been using my 48v Soniel for three years without a problem.
Later, Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gamber" <timothy_12345@...>
To: "post post" <ev@...>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour

>
> Hi everyone
>
> I have had my electric motorcycle on the road now for a few weeks and have
> started to notice some strange float voltages. I have 6 12 volt AGM
> batteries 35 amp/h powering my bike and i think i may be having a charger
> failure but i am not sure. I have 6 soneil 1206 chargers that run off off
> 110 or 120 volts and 1 has been behaving funny. All my batteries seem to
> be charging perfectly fine all the way up to 14.7 volts where  the soneils
> then switch into float charging mode. All the batteries used to float at
> about 13.8 to 14.0 volts, but now the third battery in the string has
> started to float at 13.3 volts??? When i unplug the chargers and then plug
> them back in the voltage quickly rises to 14.7 volts and then back into
> float charging mode for all batteries except for the 3rd battery which
> just goes right back to 13.3 volts. When i drive the motorcycle all the
> voltages are very close and it seems to me that the 3rd battery is fully
> charged just like all the others. Will this !
> cause harm to the 3rd battery floating at 13.3, or am i having a charger
> failure? After i noticed the weird voltage i did notice that the chargers
> were getting very hot during charging so i installed a fan.......... Any
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks ,
> Tim Gamber
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which
> combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
> http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

_______________________________________________
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[Tim Gamber]

Thanks BOB
Sounded like a pretty common sense idea to me so i did it... i switched the 5th and 3rd battery chargers and now the 5th only floats at 13.3 so it's definetly the charger...I think the heat got to it, but no worry now cause i have a fan installed. I purchased these 6 months ago from EV parts. I couldn't find on soneils website any information about the warranty so i don't know if I'll be able to get a replacement for free... Good thing these chargers are only $40...

Thanks
Tim Gamber

> From: bobcat.martin@...
> To: ev@...
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 21:48:54 -0700
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour
>
> Hi Tim, I would try to isolate the problem by swapping out the charger
> you're using on battery #3 with one of the ones that you know is working OK.
> That way you can figure out if it's the battery or the charger. If you
> determine that you have a bad charger look at the warranty and contact
> Soniel. If the battery is goofy, maybe it's still within it's warranty
> period. I've been using my 48v Soniel for three years without a problem.
> Later, Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Gamber" <timothy_12345@...>
> To: "post post" <ev@...>
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:27 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour
>
>
> >
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > I have had my electric motorcycle on the road now for a few weeks and have
> > started to notice some strange float voltages. I have 6 12 volt AGM
> > batteries 35 amp/h powering my bike and i think i may be having a charger
> > failure but i am not sure. I have 6 soneil 1206 chargers that run off off
> > 110 or 120 volts and 1 has been behaving funny. All my batteries seem to
> > be charging perfectly fine all the way up to 14.7 volts where  the soneils
> > then switch into float charging mode. All the batteries used to float at
> > about 13.8 to 14.0 volts, but now the third battery in the string has
> > started to float at 13.3 volts??? When i unplug the chargers and then plug
> > them back in the voltage quickly rises to 14.7 volts and then back into
> > float charging mode for all batteries except for the 3rd battery which
> > just goes right back to 13.3 volts. When i drive the motorcycle all the
> > voltages are very close and it seems to me that the 3rd battery is fully
> > charged just like all the others. Will this !
> > cause harm to the 3rd battery floating at 13.3, or am i having a charger
> > failure? After i noticed the weird voltage i did notice that the chargers
> > were getting very hot during charging so i installed a fan.......... Any
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks ,
> > Tim Gamber
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which
> > combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
> > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________

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[Randy Eckert]

Speaking of chargers has any one used a Renaissance charger?
http://r-charge.com/index.html

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Tim Gamber <timothy_12345@...>
wrote:

>
> Hi everyone
>
> I have had my electric motorcycle on the road now for a few weeks and have
> started to notice some strange float voltages. I have 6 12 volt AGM
> batteries 35 amp/h powering my bike and i think i may be having a charger
> failure but i am not sure. I have 6 soneil 1206 chargers that run off off
> 110 or 120 volts and 1 has been behaving funny. All my batteries seem to be
> charging perfectly fine all the way up to 14.7 volts where  the soneils then
> switch into float charging mode. All the batteries used to float at about
> 13.8 to 14.0 volts, but now the third battery in the string has started to
> float at 13.3 volts??? When i unplug the chargers and then plug them back in
> the voltage quickly rises to 14.7 volts and then back into float charging
> mode for all batteries except for the 3rd battery which just goes right back
> to 13.3 volts. When i drive the motorcycle all the voltages are very close
> and it seems to me that the 3rd battery is fully charged just like all the
> others. Will this !
>  cause harm to the 3rd battery floating at 13.3, or am i having a charger
> failure? After i noticed the weird voltage i did notice that the chargers
> were getting very hot during charging so i installed a fan.......... Any
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks ,
> Tim Gamber
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which
> combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
> http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Alan Brinkman]

Tim,

Great job on the EV. http://www.evalbum.com/1562 Does the motor ever get
hot?  Do you use the full power of the controller at times?

Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Tim Gamber
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:27 PM
To: post post
Subject: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour


Hi everyone

I have had my electric motorcycle on the road now for a few weeks and
have started to notice some strange float voltages.
(snip)
Thanks ,
Tim Gamber

_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which
combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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For subscription options, see
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[Tim Gamber]

The outside of the motor gets warm after a drive but never hot. I assume the inside of the motor probably gets hotter then the outside but i have no way of measuring it. I have used the full power of the controller many times. I have the controller set to 450 amps and low voltage cut off at 55 volts. Thats 9.16 volts per battery. I am using no name batteries right now so the performance isn't great but it is still good. It lacks a little at the top end because the batteries cannot supply enough current without sagging down to the danger zone which is below 63. I try to keep the voltage above 64 most of the time. Cruising at 100km/h is about 90 amps and a battery voltage of about 69-70, however it takes a bit more voltage sag to get up there(possibly about 55-60 volts for just a couple seconds). 0-100 km/h is very fast if i don't care about the batteries. I can only imagine what the performance would be if i had hawkers or optimas. Right now I can outrun every car on the road!
  easily. Range is quite short though with the current batteries. The furthest I've gone is 13 km but it had more to go. I estimate the max range to be about 20-25 km but i don't think I'll ever take it that far. Note that the last 5 km would probably be very hard to drive and would have to take it very slow. I plan on upgrading to Lithium phosphates in the future for a bike with probably 3-4 times the range of the current batteries...

See ya
Tim Gamber

> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 16:40:30 -0700
> From: balan@...
> To: ev@...
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour
>
> Tim,
>
> Great job on the EV. http://www.evalbum.com/1562 Does the motor ever get
> hot?  Do you use the full power of the controller at times?
>
> Alan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
> Behalf Of Tim Gamber
> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 8:27 PM
> To: post post
> Subject: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour
>
>
> Hi everyone
>
> I have had my electric motorcycle on the road now for a few weeks and
> have started to notice some strange float voltages.
> (snip)
> Thanks ,
> Tim Gamber
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which
> combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
> http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[EVDL Administrator]

On 19 May 2008 at 23:03, Tim Gamber wrote:

> low voltage cut off at 55 volts. Thats 9.16 volts per battery. I am
> using no name batteries right now so the performance isn't great but it
> is still good.

Assuming these are 12v batteries, you are committing battricide, almost
certainly reversing cells at the end of the discharge.  Even if you're not
reversing cells, the voltage sag is their scream for mercy.  They are not
meant for the punishment you're giving them.  Don't expect more than a few
months' worth of life from them.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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[Tim Gamber]

I hardly ever sag the pack below 68 volts in normal driving and even when I'm going pretty fast hardly ever below 64 volts. I set the low voltage cut off at 55 in case i needed it in an emergency.
Tim Gamber

> From: evpost@...
> To: ev@...
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 09:20:39 -0400
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird soneil charger behaviour
>
> On 19 May 2008 at 23:03, Tim Gamber wrote:
>
> > low voltage cut off at 55 volts. Thats 9.16 volts per battery. I am
> > using no name batteries right now so the performance isn't great but it
> > is still good.
>
> Assuming these are 12v batteries, you are committing battricide, almost
> certainly reversing cells at the end of the discharge.  Even if you're not
> reversing cells, the voltage sag is their scream for mercy.  They are not
> meant for the punishment you're giving them.  Don't expect more than a few
> months' worth of life from them.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one!
http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev