Water ice on Mars found!

[Sergey Dryga-2]

"Dice-size crumbs of bright material have vanished from inside a trench where
they were photographed by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander four days ago, convincing
scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after digging
exposed it."

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/

Being a chemist I would run a test before making statement like that, but they
sound very convinced!

Next step: look for little green men...

Sergey Dryga
http://beaglerobotics.com

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[Jinx-4]

> Next step: look for little green men...

Who's to say they aren't little white men that look like crumbs and
wander off when disturbed ? ;-)))

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[Roger, in Bangkok]

Mr. Soylent ...

RiB


On 6/20/08, Jinx <joecolquitt@...> wrote:
>
> > Next step: look for little green men...
>
> Who's to say they aren't little white men that look like crumbs and
> wander off when disturbed ? ;-)))
>
>
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[Richard-177]

Chemist that you are, I agree with you; run the test.  It would indeed be
prudent to at least run an IR test before disturbing the sample.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sergey Dryga" <register@...>
To: <piclist@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:06 PM
Subject: [OT] Water ice on Mars found!

> "Dice-size crumbs of bright material have vanished from inside a trench
> where
> they were photographed by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander four days ago,
> convincing
> scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after digging
> exposed it."
>
> http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/
>
> Being a chemist I would run a test before making statement like that, but
> they
> sound very convinced!
>
> Next step: look for little green men...
>
> Sergey Dryga
> http://beaglerobotics.com
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>

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[Tamas Rudnai]

I think it could be quite difficult to bring that sample into a lab if that
evaporates during digging it out :-) So currently all they can do is to best
guessing calculating with the data they have (temperature of the object,
temperature of the air and it's pressure, size of the object, time needed to
fully evaporating etc).

BTW I suppose the melting and boiling point of the water is a bit lower over
there? (because of the less gravitation, therefore the less atmospheric
pressure)

Tamas


On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Rich <rgrazia1@...> wrote:

> Chemist that you are, I agree with you; run the test.  It would indeed be
> prudent to at least run an IR test before disturbing the sample.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sergey Dryga" <register@...>
> To: <piclist@...>
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:06 PM
> Subject: [OT] Water ice on Mars found!
>
>
> > "Dice-size crumbs of bright material have vanished from inside a trench
> > where
> > they were photographed by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander four days ago,
> > convincing
> > scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after
> digging
> > exposed it."
> >
> > http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/
> >
> > Being a chemist I would run a test before making statement like that, but
> > they
> > sound very convinced!
> >
> > Next step: look for little green men...
> >
> > Sergey Dryga
> > http://beaglerobotics.com
> >
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
>
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[Richard-177]

The IR Spectral data should be the same.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamas Rudnai" <tamas.rudnai@...>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclist@...>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Water ice on Mars found!

>I think it could be quite difficult to bring that sample into a lab if that
> evaporates during digging it out :-) So currently all they can do is to
> best
> guessing calculating with the data they have (temperature of the object,
> temperature of the air and it's pressure, size of the object, time needed
> to
> fully evaporating etc).
>
> BTW I suppose the melting and boiling point of the water is a bit lower
> over
> there? (because of the less gravitation, therefore the less atmospheric
> pressure)
>
> Tamas
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Rich <rgrazia1@...> wrote:
>
>> Chemist that you are, I agree with you; run the test.  It would indeed be
>> prudent to at least run an IR test before disturbing the sample.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sergey Dryga" <register@...>
>> To: <piclist@...>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:06 PM
>> Subject: [OT] Water ice on Mars found!
>>
>>
>> > "Dice-size crumbs of bright material have vanished from inside a trench
>> > where
>> > they were photographed by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander four days ago,
>> > convincing
>> > scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after
>> digging
>> > exposed it."
>> >
>> > http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/
>> >
>> > Being a chemist I would run a test before making statement like that,
>> > but
>> > they
>> > sound very convinced!
>> >
>> > Next step: look for little green men...
>> >
>> > Sergey Dryga
>> > http://beaglerobotics.com
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> > View/change your membership options at
>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>> >
>>
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Rudonix DoubleSaver
> http://www.rudonix.com
> --
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[Apptech]

>I think it could be quite difficult to bring that sample
>into a lab if that
> evaporates during digging it out :-) So currently all they
> can do is to best
> guessing calculating with the data they have (temperature
> of the object,
> temperature of the air and it's pressure, size of the
> object, time needed to
> fully evaporating etc).
>
> BTW I suppose the melting and boiling point of the water
> is a bit lower over
> there? (because of the less gravitation, therefore the
> less atmospheric
> pressure)

Only other realistic candidate is CO2 ice. They will have
been carefully figuring the relative responses. Atmospheric
pressure is 1% earth's !!!
And nearly pure CO2.

Plus a little more water vapour today :-)



        Russell

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[Dennis Crawley-2]

On Friday, June 20, 2008 3:52 AM [GMT-3=CET],
Tamas Rudnai  wrote:

> I think it could be quite difficult to bring that sample into a lab if
> that evaporates during digging it out :-) So currently all they can do is
> to best guessing calculating with the data they have (temperature of the
> object, temperature of the air and it's pressure, size of the object,
> time needed to fully evaporating etc).
>
> BTW I suppose the melting and boiling point of the water is a bit lower
> over there? (because of the less gravitation, therefore the less
> atmospheric pressure)
>
> Tamas

The actual pressure in the surface of Mars is 8millibars and the temperature
max -32ºC and min -80ºC.
Couldn't be simulated this conditions in earth?, just to demostrate that
vaporization can happen?


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[Apptech]

> The actual pressure in the surface of Mars is 8millibars
> and the temperature
max -32ºC and min -80ºC.
Couldn't be simulated this conditions in earth?, just to
demostrate that
vaporization can happen?
/>

AFAIR the surface temperature can rise abover 0 degrees
Celsius in places on occasion.

I'm sure that they have an extremely good idea of how water
ice would be expected to behave under the condions the were
observing it in.


    Russell


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[Sergey Dryga-2]

Dennis Crawley <dennis.crawley <at> usa.net> writes:

>
> On Friday, June 20, 2008 3:52 AM [GMT-3=CET],
> Tamas Rudnai  wrote:
>
> > I think it could be quite difficult to bring that sample into a lab if
> > that evaporates during digging it out  So currently all they can do is
> > to best guessing calculating with the data they have (temperature of the
> > object, temperature of the air and it's pressure, size of the object,
> > time needed to fully evaporating etc).
> >
> > BTW I suppose the melting and boiling point of the water is a bit lower
> > over there? (because of the less gravitation, therefore the less
> > atmospheric pressure)
> >
> > Tamas
>
> The actual pressure in the surface of Mars is 8millibars and the temperature
> max -32ºC and min -80ºC.
> Couldn't be simulated this conditions in earth?, just to demostrate that
> vaporization can happen?
>

Sublimation of water ice does happen, and fairly efficiently.  The process was
(is) used for 1000's year, e.g. when drying clothes in winter in the open air.
More modern examples include lyophilization of vaccine preparations (frequently
at -20C, and low pressure at about 1-10 mbar) or freeze-dried food.

Melting point should not depend on gravity, at least not significantly.  Boiling
temperature will be significantly lower, around 70C, due to lower pressure.

Sergey Dryga
http://beaglerobotics.com

 


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