Using gmail and not seeing own messages

[Charilaos Skiadas-3]

Hopefully someone can help me with the following simple problem.

I recently moved to a gmail account for my mailing list  
subscriptions. I have enabled POP access in gmail, and set Mail.app  
to read those messages. Everything works just fine, except for the  
fact that I never get to see my own messages to the list, even though  
I have set my list preferences so as to receive them. Anyone  
encountered this before?

Haris

______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Niels Kobschaetzki]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:

> Hopefully someone can help me with the following simple problem.
>
> I recently moved to a gmail account for my mailing list  
> subscriptions. I have enabled POP access in gmail, and set Mail.app  
> to read those messages. Everything works just fine, except for the  
> fact that I never get to see my own messages to the list, even  
> though I have set my list preferences so as to receive them. Anyone  
> encountered this before?

That's the normal behaviour of GMail (it's a feature, not a bug).
It detects your messages from mailing-lists and doesn't send them too  
you. You can see them in the thread view of GMail.
Because I'm using Mail.app I set up smart folders for each subscribed  
mailing list which include my own sent mails to the mailing list.  
Then I can see them, too as well.
Another workaround could be to use the user "recent:yourgmailaccount"  
instead "yourgmailaccount" (but I'm not 100% sure about that - but it  
should work)

Niels

______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Tony Crockford]

On 8 Aug 2007, at 14:49, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:

> Hopefully someone can help me with the following simple problem.
>
> I recently moved to a gmail account for my mailing list  
> subscriptions. I have enabled POP access in gmail, and set Mail.app  
> to read those messages. Everything works just fine, except for the  
> fact that I never get to see my own messages to the list, even  
> though I have set my list preferences so as to receive them. Anyone  
> encountered this before?

I think it's a quirk of gmail..

I have several list members that complain of the same issue.

maybe there's a setting in gmail, or maybe it respects some setting  
for the list subscription, (like no dupes) I have yet to find an  
answer....



______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Charilaos Skiadas-3]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:
>
>> Hopefully someone can help me with the following simple problem.
>>
>> I recently moved to a gmail account for my mailing list  
>> subscriptions. I have enabled POP access in gmail, and set  
>> Mail.app to read those messages. Everything works just fine,  
>> except for the fact that I never get to see my own messages to the  
>> list, even though I have set my list preferences so as to receive  
>> them. Anyone encountered this before?
>
> That's the normal behaviour of GMail (it's a feature, not a bug).

I can only consider it a feature in the M$ meaning of the word. This  
is definitely a bug in my eyes.
http://playbacktime.com/2007/01/22/gmail-pop-mailing-lists-broken/

> It detects your messages from mailing-lists and doesn't send them  
> too you. You can see them in the thread view of GMail.

It should at the very least _tell_ me that it is not sending them to  
me, instead of silently making them disappear. I've set it to take  
messages it POPs out of my inbox, and this results in them  
disappearing essentially (Though the "all mail" folder contains them  
still).

> Because I'm using Mail.app I set up smart folders for each  
> subscribed mailing list which include my own sent mails to the  
> mailing list. Then I can see them, too as well.

I have set rules that move the files to local mailboxes, but of  
course those rules only apply to incoming mail :(

> Another workaround could be to use the user  
> "recent:yourgmailaccount" instead "yourgmailaccount" (but I'm not  
> 100% sure about that - but it should work)

I might have to do something like that.

> Niels

Haris Skiadas
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Hanover College





______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Niels Kobschaetzki]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
>
>> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:
>>

<snip>

>> Because I'm using Mail.app I set up smart folders for each  
>> subscribed mailing list which include my own sent mails to the  
>> mailing list. Then I can see them, too as well.
>
> I have set rules that move the files to local mailboxes, but of  
> course those rules only apply to incoming mail :(

Smart folders are the way to go -- I have nowadays only an archive-
folder (actually several ones - after a quarter is over, I create a  
sub-folder for received messages and move them over) and some folders  
for GTD-style-handling of mail (because of the unread count which is  
not always updated on smart folders). The rest is done via smart  
folders.

Niels


______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Brian Landau]

This is really only an issue for Gmail users who access it via
Mail.app or some other email desktop client. If you're using the Gmail
supplied web interface then everything is done in "conversations", and
then it makes sense for them to automatically not show you your
response.
I highly recommend not using desktop email clients with Gmail. Instead
you might want to try Mailplane ( http://mailplaneapp.com/ ) which
offers most (not all) of the features you would want out of a desktop
email client (like drag and drop, and notifications) but uses the
Gmail web interface.

- Brian

On 8/8/07, Charilaos Skiadas <cskiadas@...> wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
>
> > On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:
> >
> >> Hopefully someone can help me with the following simple problem.
> >>
> >> I recently moved to a gmail account for my mailing list
> >> subscriptions. I have enabled POP access in gmail, and set
> >> Mail.app to read those messages. Everything works just fine,
> >> except for the fact that I never get to see my own messages to the
> >> list, even though I have set my list preferences so as to receive
> >> them. Anyone encountered this before?
> >
> > That's the normal behaviour of GMail (it's a feature, not a bug).
>
> I can only consider it a feature in the M$ meaning of the word. This
> is definitely a bug in my eyes.
> http://playbacktime.com/2007/01/22/gmail-pop-mailing-lists-broken/
>
> > It detects your messages from mailing-lists and doesn't send them
> > too you. You can see them in the thread view of GMail.
>
> It should at the very least _tell_ me that it is not sending them to
> me, instead of silently making them disappear. I've set it to take
> messages it POPs out of my inbox, and this results in them
> disappearing essentially (Though the "all mail" folder contains them
> still).
>
> > Because I'm using Mail.app I set up smart folders for each
> > subscribed mailing list which include my own sent mails to the
> > mailing list. Then I can see them, too as well.
>
> I have set rules that move the files to local mailboxes, but of
> course those rules only apply to incoming mail :(
>
> > Another workaround could be to use the user
> > "recent:yourgmailaccount" instead "yourgmailaccount" (but I'm not
> > 100% sure about that - but it should work)
>
> I might have to do something like that.
>
> > Niels
>
> Haris Skiadas
> Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
> Hanover College
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
> (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
> http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
>

______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Charilaos Skiadas-3]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 10:19 AM, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:
>
>> On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:
>>>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> Because I'm using Mail.app I set up smart folders for each  
>>> subscribed mailing list which include my own sent mails to the  
>>> mailing list. Then I can see them, too as well.
>>
>> I have set rules that move the files to local mailboxes, but of  
>> course those rules only apply to incoming mail :(
>
> Smart folders are the way to go -- I have nowadays only an archive-
> folder (actually several ones - after a quarter is over, I create a  
> sub-folder for received messages and move them over) and some  
> folders for GTD-style-handling of mail (because of the unread count  
> which is not always updated on smart folders). The rest is done via  
> smart folders.

I also have smart folders that show me the unread messages from the  
list folders, but I don't have them look into the sent mail. But even  
if I did that, the message will still not be shown as a new, unread,  
message. The point is that the way things are now, I have no easy  
confirmation that my message was sent to the list.

> Niels

Haris Skiadas
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Hanover College





______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Charilaos Skiadas-3]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Brian Landau wrote:

> This is really only an issue for Gmail users who access it via
> Mail.app or some other email desktop client. If you're using the Gmail
> supplied web interface then everything is done in "conversations", and
> then it makes sense for them to automatically not show you your
> response.

I suppose what you mean is that in conversation mode it shows you the  
message you sent out, and so has no need to show you the message you  
would receive, otherwise I can hardly envision a conversation mode  
where your part of the conversation is not shown. This I could almost  
buy, though I still think it is being too smart for its own good  
(rather, for my own good). But suppose I just want to send myself a  
reminder email. It will receive it and show it in its web interface  
in the inbox there, but it will never send it through POP. It  
effectively doesn't allow me to send emails to myself. Is there  
really a good technical reason for that?

> I highly recommend not using desktop email clients with Gmail. Instead
> you might want to try Mailplane ( http://mailplaneapp.com/ ) which
> offers most (not all) of the features you would want out of a desktop
> email client (like drag and drop, and notifications) but uses the
> Gmail web interface.

I might consider it, though the reason I don't use the web interface  
of gmail is that I don't like the web interface of gmail, so this  
won't help me much. In addition to that, I actually have 2-3  
different email accounts, and Mail.app allows me to look at all of  
them at once (and no I am not about to consolidate everything to gmail).

> - Brian

Haris Skiadas
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Hanover College





______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Niels Kobschaetzki]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:

>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Brian Landau wrote:
>
>> This is really only an issue for Gmail users who access it via
>> Mail.app or some other email desktop client. If you're using the  
>> Gmail
>> supplied web interface then everything is done in "conversations",  
>> and
>> then it makes sense for them to automatically not show you your
>> response.
>
> I suppose what you mean is that in conversation mode it shows you  
> the message you sent out, and so has no need to show you the  
> message you would receive, otherwise I can hardly envision a  
> conversation mode where your part of the conversation is not shown.  
> This I could almost buy, though I still think it is being too smart  
> for its own good (rather, for my own good). But suppose I just want  
> to send myself a reminder email. It will receive it and show it in  
> its web interface in the inbox there, but it will never send it  
> through POP. It effectively doesn't allow me to send emails to  
> myself. Is there really a good technical reason for that?

Try sending mails to yourself and you'll see that it works - I do it  
all the time. It happens only to mails which are sent to mailing lists.

Niels



______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate

[Charilaos Skiadas-3]

On Aug 8, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Niels Kobschätzki wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Brian Landau wrote:
>>
>>> This is really only an issue for Gmail users who access it via
>>> Mail.app or some other email desktop client. If you're using the  
>>> Gmail
>>> supplied web interface then everything is done in  
>>> "conversations", and
>>> then it makes sense for them to automatically not show you your
>>> response.
>>
>> I suppose what you mean is that in conversation mode it shows you  
>> the message you sent out, and so has no need to show you the  
>> message you would receive, otherwise I can hardly envision a  
>> conversation mode where your part of the conversation is not  
>> shown. This I could almost buy, though I still think it is being  
>> too smart for its own good (rather, for my own good). But suppose  
>> I just want to send myself a reminder email. It will receive it  
>> and show it in its web interface in the inbox there, but it will  
>> never send it through POP. It effectively doesn't allow me to send  
>> emails to myself. Is there really a good technical reason for that?
>
> Try sending mails to yourself and you'll see that it works - I do  
> it all the time. It happens only to mails which are sent to mailing  
> lists.
>

I've done so, twice. They are waiting for me in my gmail inbox  
online, but POP doesn't bring them to Mail.app. At least gmail  
doesn't delete those.

> Niels

Haris Skiadas
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Hanover College





______________________________________________________________________
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@...
(threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't)
http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate