Ubuntu 8.04 LTS released

[Xiaofan Chen]

http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-8.04-lts-desktop

One feature is the "Wubi" technology which installs Ubuntu
under Windows.
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3742696

I'll wait a few weeks to install Ubuntu 8.04. Last time
when 7.10 was out, there was some problems with
quite some people. 8.04 LTS should be better but I
will still wait a while.

Xiaofan
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[Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap]

On Friday 25 April 2008 00:57:48 Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> I'll wait a few weeks to install Ubuntu 8.04. Last time
> when 7.10 was out, there was some problems with
> quite some people. 8.04 LTS should be better but I
> will still wait a while.

I'd just upgraded today. The only problem I had was with my wireless driver.
The b43 driver that came with the ubuntu kernel didn't work. But I downloaded
and built the latest one and it worked. Otherwise, I've not noticed anything
amiss yet.

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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Fri, 2008-04-25 at 07:57 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-8.04-lts-desktop
>
> One feature is the "Wubi" technology which installs Ubuntu
> under Windows.
> http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3742696
>
> I'll wait a few weeks to install Ubuntu 8.04. Last time
> when 7.10 was out, there was some problems with
> quite some people. 8.04 LTS should be better but I
> will still wait a while.

Downloaded it this morning (by torrent). Tried a live boot, came up OK,
but on the surface didn't look much different. I was expecting more
noticeable GUI polishing, but nothing really popped out at me.

Most notable disappointment is there doesn't seem to be any change to
how bluetooth functions, still no easy graphical built in way to pair
and enable a headset (at least I couldn't find it), a shame.

There's been so much movement on every other technology "just working"
under Linux, but bluetooth seems to be left behind somehow?

TTYL
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[Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap]

On Friday 25 April 2008 03:47:29 Herbert Graf wrote:
> Most notable disappointment is there doesn't seem to be any change to
> how bluetooth functions, still no easy graphical built in way to pair
> and enable a headset (at least I couldn't find it), a shame.

There's KBluetooth under Kubuntu. I use it to transfer files between laptop
and mobile. Not sure if it works with headsets, as I've not tried it.

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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Shawn Tan <shawn.tan@...> wrote:

> On Friday 25 April 2008 00:57:48 Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > I'll wait a few weeks to install Ubuntu 8.04. Last time
> > when 7.10 was out, there was some problems with
> > quite some people. 8.04 LTS should be better but I
> > will still wait a while.
>
> I'd just upgraded today. The only problem I had was with my wireless driver.
> The b43 driver that came with the ubuntu kernel didn't work. But I downloaded
> and built the latest one and it worked. Otherwise, I've not noticed anything
> amiss yet.
>

I am waiting for the FTP mirror (mirror.averse.net or mirror.pacific.net.au) to
be available anyway. I am not a fan of BitTorrent.

Xiaofan
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[Alex Harford]

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:
>
>  Downloaded it this morning (by torrent). Tried a live boot, came up OK,
>  but on the surface didn't look much different. I was expecting more
>  noticeable GUI polishing, but nothing really popped out at me.

My torrent finished downloading sometime last night, looking forward
to trying it out soon.  I'm going to replace the OS on my desktop and
laptop, both running SuSE, as Ubuntu seems to have caught up with the
desktop polish.  And they don't show any sign of slowing down. :)

Alex
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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Fri, 2008-04-25 at 22:42 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Shawn Tan <shawn.tan@...> wrote:
> > On Friday 25 April 2008 00:57:48 Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> > > I'll wait a few weeks to install Ubuntu 8.04. Last time
> > > when 7.10 was out, there was some problems with
> > > quite some people. 8.04 LTS should be better but I
> > > will still wait a while.
> >
> > I'd just upgraded today. The only problem I had was with my wireless driver.
> > The b43 driver that came with the ubuntu kernel didn't work. But I downloaded
> > and built the latest one and it worked. Otherwise, I've not noticed anything
> > amiss yet.
> >
>
> I am waiting for the FTP mirror (mirror.averse.net or mirror.pacific.net.au) to
> be available anyway. I am not a fan of BitTorrent.

Fan or not, it is by far the fastest way to get anything fast
consistently these days.

Consider this, merely 9 hours after the release of 8.04, I had a copy on
my machine, and the download only took 1h to complete (700MB).
Considering how many thousands of people were trying to download it from
"traditional" sources every single download server was completely
inaccessible, yet torrents work BETTER the more people try to access it.

I don't even bother with regular download sources anymore, torrents have
consistently been faster.

TTYL
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:55 AM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:
> > I am waiting for the FTP mirror (mirror.averse.net or mirror.pacific.net.au) to
> > be available anyway. I am not a fan of BitTorrent.
>
> Fan or not, it is by far the fastest way to get anything fast
> consistently these days.

Not for me. Bittorrent or other P2P service are rather slow for
me. Maybe the ISP is doing something here.

> Consider this, merely 9 hours after the release of 8.04, I had a copy on
> my machine, and the download only took 1h to complete (700MB).
> Considering how many thousands of people were trying to download it from
> "traditional" sources every single download server was completely
> inaccessible, yet torrents work BETTER the more people try to access it.
>
> I don't even bother with regular download sources anymore, torrents have
> consistently been faster.
>

For me the two mirrors I mentioned worked the best. There are
very fast. I can download single CD ubuntu within one hour,
sometimes much less than one hour. Sometimes it
can saturate my download link (8Mbps) Cable.

By the way, I think you still need access to the download server
anyway for Ubuntu updates.

Xiaofan
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[peter green-2]

> Fan or not, it is by far the fastest way to get anything fast
> consistently these days.
>  
In my experiance it is is way to get something slowly when the more
conventional sources are hopelessly overloaded but if there is a
conventional source that is not overloaded that will generally be a far
better option.

This will vary depending on your ISP though, bittorrent is far more
agressive than conventional downloading so if you have a fast congestion
to a contended network AND you have high upstream speed it may well be
faster. OTOH if your ISP explicitly shapes down bittorrent it can be
much slower.
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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Sat, 2008-04-26 at 07:55 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:55 AM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:
> > > I am waiting for the FTP mirror (mirror.averse.net or mirror.pacific.net.au) to
> > > be available anyway. I am not a fan of BitTorrent.
> >
> > Fan or not, it is by far the fastest way to get anything fast
> > consistently these days.
>
> Not for me. Bittorrent or other P2P service are rather slow for
> me. Maybe the ISP is doing something here.

Not surprising, most ISPs are throttling that sort of traffic. As it
effect more and more legitimate uses like this that sort of throttling
will eventually stop.

TTYL
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[Tamas Rudnai]

> Not for me. Bittorrent or other P2P service are rather slow for
> me. Maybe the ISP is doing something here.

Could be the case, and also depends on the torrrent client you are using. I
was foolishly using Opera as a client and then tried out uTorrent, that's
way faster and smoother. You can also register 'friends' who has priority to
download from your machine, or you can exclude people abusing your upload
speed or providing damaged images etc. Also there are quite a few sites how
to set up parameters that matches to your up and down speed - but most of
the times you do not even have to tickle with these parameters. Torrent is
only bad if only one or two person seeds the file you want to download as
the may switch off computer any time or just stop seeding the file.

Tamas



On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@...> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:55 AM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...>
> wrote:
> > > I am waiting for the FTP mirror (mirror.averse.net or
> mirror.pacific.net.au) to
> > > be available anyway. I am not a fan of BitTorrent.
> >
> > Fan or not, it is by far the fastest way to get anything fast
> > consistently these days.
>
> Not for me. Bittorrent or other P2P service are rather slow for
> me. Maybe the ISP is doing something here.
>
> > Consider this, merely 9 hours after the release of 8.04, I had a copy on
> > my machine, and the download only took 1h to complete (700MB).
> > Considering how many thousands of people were trying to download it from
> > "traditional" sources every single download server was completely
> > inaccessible, yet torrents work BETTER the more people try to access it.
> >
> > I don't even bother with regular download sources anymore, torrents have
> > consistently been faster.
> >
>
> For me the two mirrors I mentioned worked the best. There are
> very fast. I can download single CD ubuntu within one hour,
> sometimes much less than one hour. Sometimes it
> can saturate my download link (8Mbps) Cable.
>
> By the way, I think you still need access to the download server
> anyway for Ubuntu updates.
>
> Xiaofan
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Tamas Rudnai <tamas.rudnai@...> wrote:

> > Not for me. Bittorrent or other P2P service are rather slow for
>  > me. Maybe the ISP is doing something here.
>
>  Could be the case, and also depends on the torrrent client you are using. I
>  was foolishly using Opera as a client and then tried out uTorrent, that's
>  way faster and smoother. You can also register 'friends' who has priority to
>  download from your machine, or you can exclude people abusing your upload
>  speed or providing damaged images etc. Also there are quite a few sites how
>  to set up parameters that matches to your up and down speed - but most of
>  the times you do not even have to tickle with these parameters. Torrent is
>  only bad if only one or two person seeds the file you want to download as
>  the may switch off computer any time or just stop seeding the file.

I only tried Bitcomet (for bittorrent) and emule (for ED2k/kad). Bitcomet
has been uninstalled. I keep emule on my computer but I do not use
it often. emule seems to be slightly better than Bitcomet here. But I
do not really use P2P so often. Any FTP clients (I still use the old
WS-FTP-Lite most often under Windows and gftp under Linux, even
Firefox will do the job) beat them comfortably when it comes to
download. I know the FTP client built-in IE is not usable.

And sometimes I need to reset my Cable Modem / Linksys Wireless router
and ask the other two users of my home network to shut down emule when
the network is slow (over the weekend, it is faster early in the morning
but then becomes slower and slower).

Xiaofan
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:
>  Downloaded it this morning (by torrent). Tried a live boot, came up OK,
>  but on the surface didn't look much different. I was expecting more
>  noticeable GUI polishing, but nothing really popped out at me.
>
>  Most notable disappointment is there doesn't seem to be any change to
>  how bluetooth functions, still no easy graphical built in way to pair
>  and enable a headset (at least I couldn't find it), a shame.

Ok I downloaded the desktop install CD from a Taiwan mirror. At
250KB/s, it is not bad.

I notice there is some delay during the install process. Otherwise
it is normal.

But there is a BIG difference this time. Upon reboot, the machine
HANGs. So I have to hit the reset button. Upon reboot, the machine
hangs after less than 30 seconds. I do notice that the visual effect
is enabled by default and that must be the problem. So I am
now under Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and I will see how I can disable
the visual effect.

Last time the same thing happens with OpenSuse 10.3. I guess
my graphics card is to blame (ATI 9800SE).

Xiaofan
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 9:56 PM, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@...> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:

>  But there is a BIG difference this time. Upon reboot, the machine
>  HANGs. So I have to hit the reset button. Upon reboot, the machine
>  hangs after less than 30 seconds. I do notice that the visual effect
>  is enabled by default and that must be the problem. So I am
>  now under Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and I will see how I can disable
>  the visual effect.
>
>  Last time the same thing happens with OpenSuse 10.3. I guess
>  my graphics card is to blame (ATI 9800SE).
>

Problem solved. I boot into Gnome Fail save session and removed
all the compiz junk. Reboot and everything seems to be fine now.

Xiaofan
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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Sat, 2008-04-26 at 16:04 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> And sometimes I need to reset my Cable Modem / Linksys Wireless router
> and ask the other two users of my home network to shut down emule when
> the network is slow (over the weekend, it is faster early in the morning
> but then becomes slower and slower).

While the ISP is certainly suspect for your results, it could very well
be your router.

Many consumer routers are horrible for P2P, the most common complaint
being exactly what you've been describing: P2P speeds being much lower
then they should be.

For something like Ubuntu, where there are at least 10s or 100s of
thousands downloading, a torrent should COMPLETELY saturate your
download speed (if you want it to).

If you are curious, I would google your router and it's performance with
P2P, it might be what's holding you back.

FWIW I just use the bittorrent client under Ubuntu, works wonderfully.

TTYL
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:
>
>  If you are curious, I would google your router and it's performance with
>  P2P, it might be what's holding you back.
>
>  FWIW I just use the bittorrent client under Ubuntu, works wonderfully.
>

My router is the famous Linksys WRT54G (the old version with v2.2 firmware
and embedded Linux) which has been with me for two and half years.

Xiaofan
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[Xiaofan Chen]

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc@...> wrote:
>  Problem solved. I boot into Gnome Fail save session and removed
>  all the compiz junk. Reboot and everything seems to be fine now.

One thing I notice is that it now includes fairy recent version of
gputils/sdcc/gpsim/piklab. But I will not bother with them.
I just built them all using the latest subversion source.

I also tried PICkit 2 with pk2cmdLinux and it works fine as well.
PICDEM FS USB demo also works fine.

Xiaofan
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[Herbert Graf-2]

On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 00:20 +0800, Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Herbert Graf <mailinglist4@...> wrote:
> >
> >  If you are curious, I would google your router and it's performance with
> >  P2P, it might be what's holding you back.
> >
> >  FWIW I just use the bittorrent client under Ubuntu, works wonderfully.
> >
>
> My router is the famous Linksys WRT54G (the old version with v2.2 firmware
> and embedded Linux) which has been with me for two and half years.

Alright, have you investigated whether that router in it's stock config
has issues with P2P?

Most consumer routers choke on P2P apps. The fact of the matter is they
were designed when P2P apps didn't really exist. P2P use often opens so
many connections on a router that the tables actually get full,
resulting in less then optimal P2P performance (since the router doesn't
let any more connections happen). Some routers even reboot or hang when
you run P2P on them for long enough.

You mentioned earlier that you have an 8Mbps down pipe, that's EASILY in
the realm of trouble for almost all older consumer routers.

TTYL
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[bill.finkle]

Hi

        I have 20 Meg Cable Download speed, and I suffer when I sometimes
use

        P2P. Could you recommend suitable router?.
        Thanks Bill


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Alright, have you investigated whether that router in it's stock config
has issues with P2P?

Most consumer routers choke on P2P apps. The fact of the matter is they
were designed when P2P apps didn't really exist. P2P use often opens so
many connections on a router that the tables actually get full,
resulting in less then optimal P2P performance (since the router doesn't
let any more connections happen). Some routers even reboot or hang when
you run P2P on them for long enough.

You mentioned earlier that you have an 8Mbps down pipe, that's EASILY in
the realm of trouble for almost all older consumer routers.


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