UI Enhancements dependency Package Universes

[Bill Schwab]

Tim,

Agreed, and then some.  I would not be upset by a framework that can
work down to the individual widget, but what you describe would give
most of the benefits of host integration and very few of the hassles.
In that, I am assuming (a safe bet I think) that Gary will ensure that
the feel is sufficiently configurable that we will not need an outside
framework to impose discipline re keyboard focus, etc.

Bill




Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab@...
Tel: [phone]
FAX: [phone]

>>> tim@... 02/15/08 3:00 PM >>>

Our basic intent when designing Ffenestri was to allow pretty much any  
usage. If you want to map a single SystemWindow level object to a host  
window then that would be good and would match most needs in typical  
applications. Don't forget to consider floating palette type windows  
as well - those that accompany a main window and provide a palette of  
tool icons etc. And menus could be implemented by opening a short  
lived small window; this might well be much simpler and more portable  
than trying to hook cleanly into every OS menu api, whilst allowing  
the menu to be taller than a small app. window if needed.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; tim@...; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Klingon Code Warrior:- 10) "This code is a piece of crap!  You have no  
honor!"


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[Igor Stasenko]

I'd like to add, it wouldn't hurt to discuss design of new framework
publicly, so everyone will have a chance to put his 2 cents and share
ideas. :)

On 16/02/2008, Bill Schwab <BSchwab@...> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> Agreed, and then some.  I would not be upset by a framework that can
> work down to the individual widget, but what you describe would give
> most of the benefits of host integration and very few of the hassles.
> In that, I am assuming (a safe bet I think) that Gary will ensure that
> the feel is sufficiently configurable that we will not need an outside
> framework to impose discipline re keyboard focus, etc.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
> University of Florida
> Department of Anesthesiology
> PO Box 100254
> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
>
> Email: bschwab@...
> Tel: [phone]
> FAX: [phone]
>
> >>> tim@... 02/15/08 3:00 PM >>>
>
> Our basic intent when designing Ffenestri was to allow pretty much any
> usage. If you want to map a single SystemWindow level object to a host
> window then that would be good and would match most needs in typical
> applications. Don't forget to consider floating palette type windows
> as well - those that accompany a main window and provide a palette of
> tool icons etc. And menus could be implemented by opening a short
> lived small window; this might well be much simpler and more portable
> than trying to hook cleanly into every OS menu api, whilst allowing
> the menu to be taller than a small app. window if needed.
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; tim@...; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Klingon Code Warrior:- 10) "This code is a piece of crap!  You have no
> honor!"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> UI@...
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> UI@...
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
>

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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[Bill Schwab]

First, I am not aware that anything is being done in the dark.  However,
Object Arts did pretty well with MVP w/o a lot of input, so maybe a
small group _should_ be working behind closed doors.  Indeed, the
technology that seeded this effort came from a well-intentioned and
skilled group of people at Pinesoft.  Please note that they have made
substantial changes based on our feedback, and this thread started with
them asking for input on a future change.  It's working; let's not
derail them.

Sincerely,

Bill




Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab@...
Tel: [phone]
FAX: [phone]

>>> siguctua@... 02/16/08 4:53 PM >>>
I'd like to add, it wouldn't hurt to discuss design of new framework
publicly, so everyone will have a chance to put his 2 cents and share
ideas. :)

On 16/02/2008, Bill Schwab <BSchwab@...> wrote:

> Tim,
>
> Agreed, and then some.  I would not be upset by a framework that can
> work down to the individual widget, but what you describe would give
> most of the benefits of host integration and very few of the hassles.
> In that, I am assuming (a safe bet I think) that Gary will ensure that
> the feel is sufficiently configurable that we will not need an outside
> framework to impose discipline re keyboard focus, etc.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
> University of Florida
> Department of Anesthesiology
> PO Box 100254
> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
>
> Email: bschwab@...
> Tel: [phone]
> FAX: [phone]
>
> >>> tim@... 02/15/08 3:00 PM >>>
>
> Our basic intent when designing Ffenestri was to allow pretty much any
> usage. If you want to map a single SystemWindow level object to a host
> window then that would be good and would match most needs in typical
> applications. Don't forget to consider floating palette type windows
> as well - those that accompany a main window and provide a palette of
> tool icons etc. And menus could be implemented by opening a short
> lived small window; this might well be much simpler and more portable
> than trying to hook cleanly into every OS menu api, whilst allowing
> the menu to be taller than a small app. window if needed.
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; tim@...; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Klingon Code Warrior:- 10) "This code is a piece of crap!  You have no
> honor!"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> UI@...
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> UI@...
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
>

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
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[Gary Chambers-4]

We are certainly up for discussion/design with this...
I am coming to the position of sandboxing a potential new framework as a
Morph... like a high level independent window system that takes it's initial
basis via an adaptor morph that translates various morphic events to its own
metaphor. This would be an aside from restructuring the low-level event
mechanism, for the moment, while providing a means to explore new and
(hopefully) more efficient/flexible frameworks for providing a user
interface.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ui-bounces@...
> [mailto:ui-bounces@...]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab
> Sent: 17 February 2008 1:07 PM
> To: ui@...
> Subject: Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
>
>
> First, I am not aware that anything is being done in the dark.  However,
> Object Arts did pretty well with MVP w/o a lot of input, so maybe a
> small group _should_ be working behind closed doors.  Indeed, the
> technology that seeded this effort came from a well-intentioned and
> skilled group of people at Pinesoft.  Please note that they have made
> substantial changes based on our feedback, and this thread started with
> them asking for input on a future change.  It's working; let's not
> derail them.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bill

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[Gary Chambers-4]

Once we have a nice performant and flexible framework I see the roles being
reversed, Morphic being handled via an adaptor in the new framework...

All thoughts welcome.
Gary.

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[Alain Plantec]

On Saturday 23 February 2008 18:30, Gary Chambers wrote:
> Once we have a nice performant and flexible framework I see the roles being
> reversed, Morphic being handled via an adaptor in the new framework...
>
> All thoughts welcome.
> Gary.


Hi Gary,
Maybe this is (at least partly) what I'm working on with Miro.
Here is what I said about it on squeak-dev 2 weeks ago as a answer to Hilaire

> On Tuesday 12 February 2008 13:49, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
> > Regarding the recent posts on Morph. I just want to write I am very
> > interested by what Juan is doing with Morph 3, and also about Alain
> > Plantec work to improve Morph.
> > ....
>
> Thanks Hilaire,
> Miro is in very early stage and I did'nt want to say to much about it
> before I can show something to the community.
> but I can say a little bit more. The aim is to provide a set of
> re-targetable widgets. By re-targetable, I mean that it would be possible
> to use them with Morphic2, Morphic3, or SqueakGtk or another connectable
> viewing framework. For now, I'm using a fork of 4 morph classes (Morph,
> ImageMorph, TextMorph and TransformMorph). My widgets are build by
> composition of these 4 morph classes (no inheritance but only real
> composition). Each widget is connected to its view classe (like my 4 Morph
> classes are) by a mediator called a Director. A director have the
> responsibility to build the scene (compose Morphs), to dress the scene
> (style and theme handling) and to manage communications between the scenes
> and the widgets.
> Communications between the scene and the director and the widgets and
> finally the client GUI is made with the help of Announcement framework.
> So I think this architecture can be powerful but it has a cost and I want
> to experiment it before I claim I have something interesting.
> From my point of view, Morphic3 is a very interesting project because it
> aims to provide a minimal set of very clean Morph classes. This is exactly
> what I'm looking for as a built-in viewing framework.
> A first demonstration of Miro usability will be obtained when I will be
> able to really transparently re-target the same client GUI from Morphic2
> compatible classes to Morphic3. The next big step will be to connect Miro
> to SqueakGtk. I will really be satisfied when I will be able to bring
> native widgets connection to squeak.
> As soon as I have a minimal set of clean widget connected to Morphic2
> compatible view classes, I document it and expose it to the community in
> order to receive some feedbacks.
> A long way to go but funny :)
> cheers
> alain
>

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[Gary Chambers-4]

Hadn't spotted that post. Maybe I'l wait a while and see how your work
progresses...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ui-bounces@...
> [mailto:ui-bounces@...]On Behalf Of Alain Plantec
> Sent: 24 February 2008 9:29 AM
> To: Squeak's User Interface
> Subject: Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
>
>
> On Saturday 23 February 2008 18:30, Gary Chambers wrote:
> > Once we have a nice performant and flexible framework I see the
> roles being
> > reversed, Morphic being handled via an adaptor in the new framework...
> >
> > All thoughts welcome.
> > Gary.
>
>
> Hi Gary,
> Maybe this is (at least partly) what I'm working on with Miro.
> Here is what I said about it on squeak-dev 2 weeks ago as a
> answer to Hilaire
>

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[Gary Chambers-4]

I have added UI Enhancements as a registered project on SqueakPeople. Feel
free to register your relationship!

:-)

Gary

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[Gary Chambers-4]

I have updated the dev universe with thelatest package versions.
Currnet Universe versions are:

ToolBuilder integration for UI Themes version 0.52
UI Theme Taskbar Icons version 0.1
UI Themes and Standard Widgets version 0.60

Either of the taskbar icons or toolbuilder integration have Ui Themes as
dependencies.

Gary.

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[Gary Chambers-4]

There are new (above the current Universe) versions of Pinesoft-Widgets and
Pinesoft-ToolBuilder.

The former has some changes that may meet with Damien's approval (can you
check via Mantis please Damien?), as well as some tweaks to the Watery and
Vistary themes. The latter fixes a bug I found using the LanguageEditor.

Gary.

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