This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd

[Siju George]

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

Again a mis representation in pulic?

--Siju

[STeve Andre']

On Wednesday 16 July 2008 13:33:31 Siju George wrote:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>
> Again a mis representation in pulic?
>
> --Siju

Let me be the first to say--

   Who cares?

I may completely disagree with him, but I'm not going to invest in a
flame fest over his comments.

To each their own.

--STeve Andre'

[(private) HKS]

++

-HKS

> Let me be the first to say--
>
>   Who cares?
>
> I may completely disagree with him, but I'm not going to invest in a
> flame fest over his comments.
>
> To each their own.
>
> --STeve Andre'

[Denis Doroshenko]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...> wrote:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>
> Again a mis representation in pulic?

haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
ass these days.

of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
seen numerous examples by linux indeed.

well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.

he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
just couldn't resist :-)

p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

[Marcus Andree]

<snip>
> I may completely disagree with him, but I'm not going to invest in a
> flame fest over his comments.
<snip>

Being here when Stallman started the last flame "nuclear holocaust" war,
I feel a weird sense of deja-vu right now.

[Marco Peereboom]

*yawn* linus' opinion is as interesting as his relevance.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:03:31PM +0530, Siju George wrote:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>
> Again a mis representation in pulic?
>
> --Siju

[Marti Martinez]

From http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
> I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys

Well, shit, he's got ME nailed...

--
Systems Programmer, Principal
Electrical & Computer Engineering
The University of Arizona
marti@...

[mcb, inc.]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Siju George wrote:

> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>
> Again a mis representation in pulic?

"To me, security is important.  But it's no less important than
everything *else* that is also important!"  I.e. there are no shades
of gray in import hence importance is black-and-while.  Hmmmm...

--
Monty Brandenberg

[Marc Balmer-2]

* Denis Doroshenko wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...> wrote:
> > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
> >
> > Again a mis representation in pulic?
>
> haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
> ass these days.
>
> of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
> seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
>
> well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
> server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
> always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
> servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
>
> he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
> just couldn't resist :-)
>
> p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)

maybe it is noteworthy here that Sigmund Freud received his Dr. med degree
with a work on the spinal cord of lower fish species.

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Denis Doroshenko escreveu:

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...> wrote:
>  
>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>>
>> Again a mis representation in pulic?
>>    
>
> haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
> ass these days.
>
> of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
> seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
>
> well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
> server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
> always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
> servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
>
> he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
> just couldn't resist :-)
>
> p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)
>
>
>  

I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.

My 2 cents,

--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842  6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Nuno Magalhães-2]

Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.

From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)

--
Nuno MagalhC#es

[Marco Peereboom]

debian users are masturbating amoebas

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:47:54PM +0100, Nuno Magalh??es wrote:

> Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
> actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
> get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.
>
> From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
> of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
> answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
> criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.
>
> Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)
>
> --
> Nuno MagalhC#es

[Marco Peereboom]

Oh he now develops code?  I thought that ended somewhere in in '95.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:45:23PM -0300, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote:

> Denis Doroshenko escreveu:
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...> wrote:
> >  
> >> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
> >>
> >> Again a mis representation in pulic?
> >>    
> >
> > haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
> > ass these days.
> >
> > of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
> > seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
> >
> > well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
> > server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
> > always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
> > servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
> >
> > he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
> > just couldn't resist :-)
> >
> > p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)
> >
> >
> >  
> I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
> why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
> him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
> even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
> doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
> and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
> like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> --
> Giancarlo Razzolini
> http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
> Linux User 172199
> Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
> Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
> Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
> OpenBSD Stable
> Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
> 4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842  6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Marcus Andree]

>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>>
>> Again a mis representation in pulic?
>
> "To me, security is important.  But it's no less important than
> everything *else* that is also important!"  I.e. there are no shades
> of gray in import hence importance is black-and-while.  Hmmmm...
>

IMO, this isn't the worst sentence on linus' interview.  He has
the right to think anything about everything. He has even the
right to be plain wrong. But he should _not_ say this about
anyone:

"I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys (...)"

What's the point here? If he places security in second place, that's fine.
But don't say people who _do_ think like that is a bunch of
bastards.

[Aaron Glenn]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...> wrote:
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>
> Again a mis representation in pulic?

I like to think OpenBSD attracts the kind of people that come up with
their own opinions from their own experiences and don't invest too
heavily in others' before attempting to formulate their own.
In other words, who cares what Linus thinks of security or OpenBSD?
Just because he's the figure head of a very widely known open source
project doesn't mean his opinions should be glorified or are more
important.

[Aaron Glenn]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Nuno Magalhces
<nunomagalhaes@...> wrote:
> Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

because here, many people have spent many hours making sure tfm gives
you all the information you need

[Steve Shockley]

Nuno MagalhC#es wrote:
>  From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
> of masturbating monkeys" anyway

I'm not a monkey.

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Marco Peereboom escreveu:

> Oh he now develops code?  I thought that ended somewhere in in '95.
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:45:23PM -0300, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote:
>  
>> Denis Doroshenko escreveu:
>>    
>>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>>      
>>>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
>>>>
>>>> Again a mis representation in pulic?
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>> haha, poor linus cries like a baby coz not everyone is gonna kiss his
>>> ass these days.
>>>
>>> of course security is not that important! there is no doubt, we've
>>> seen numerous examples by linux indeed.
>>>
>>> well, guess what is worse: a db server crashed and rebooted, or a db
>>> server rooted and all valuable information sucked out of it. jeez, i
>>> always thought that linux "wants" to get into serious game of big
>>> servers etc., but with the leader like that?.. gimme a break.
>>>
>>> he made my day with that comment! sorry guys for contributing to this,
>>> just couldn't resist :-)
>>>
>>> p.s. i guess dr. freud would find some serious troubles deep in the guy ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>> I took the care of reading all the thread. The guy is just asking linus
>> why the policy about security bugs isn't being followed. Linus replies
>> him telling that he do not want script kiddies to exploit the bugs. He
>> even says that security bugs are "normal" bugs. I think that linus
>> doesn't even know what full disclosure is. It's a shame for me, a linux
>> and openbsd user, to see the linux kernel main developer, saying things
>> like that. I think i might migrate my desktop machine to openbsd now.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>>
>> --
>> Giancarlo Razzolini
>> http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
>> Linux User 172199
>> Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
>> Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
>> Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
>> OpenBSD Stable
>> Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
>> 4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842  6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85
>>
>>    
>
>  

He is very good at taking someone's else code and putting that into the
linux kernel, i can assure that. My mind changed a lot since i started
using OpenBSD. I know see that the development model of the linux kernel
is flawed. I know, every model has it's issues. But *the* issue in linux
model is linus itself. It's a shame.

My 2 cents,

--
Giancarlo Razzolini
http://lock.razzolini.adm.br
Linux User 172199
Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501
Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/
Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002
OpenBSD Stable
Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Herom
4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842  6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85

[Aaron W. Hsu]

Hrm . . .

        From: Siju George <sgeorge.ml@...>
        To: misc <misc@...>
        Subject: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd

        http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950

Just to be clear:

        The process we follow to increase security is simply a
        comprehensive file-by-file analysis of every critical software
        component. We are not so much looking for security holes, as we
        are looking for basic software bugs, .... [1]

        Sincerely,
                Aaron Hsu

[1] <http://www.openbsd.org/security.html>
--
+++++++++++++++ ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) +++++++++++++++
Email: <arcfide@...> | WWW: <http://www.sacrideo.us>
Scheme Programming is subtle; subtlety can be hard.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Kevin Wilcox-3]

2008/7/16 Nuno MagalhC#es <nunomagalhaes@...>:

> Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and
> actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might
> get what he means. It's a balanced opinion.

It's not that it isn't a balanced opinion or that he may be right or
wrong - it's that the guy was asking why they weren't following their
disclosure policy and no one has provided a sufficient answer as to
why they don't a) follow the policy or b) change the document.

> From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* "a bunch
> of masturbating monkeys" anyway, i get much more decent reasonable
> answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive
> criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping.

Coming from the GNU/Linux community I felt the same way for a while.
Then I started really looking at what my expectations were versus what
they should be.

In the Linux world I had grown used to expecting something in
particular. Despite no SLA or any other type of agreement, I expected
the community to support the distribution. When I made the change to
FreeBSD and OpenBSD, I brought those expectations with me.

Then I realised that was both selfish and foolish. Now my expectations
have changed. I expect to get an install CD and whatever swag I pay
for. Beyond that, I *hope* that if I have troubles that I can approach
the *BSD community and get some assistance but I realise that that
should never be an expectation and that I'm equally as likely to get a
"sorry, I value my time" as I am to get "you should look at the -<foo>
flag" - and that either response is ok.

Actually, allow me to c