ThinkPad 3GHz [[ alledgedly]]

[Gary Kline-5]

        Well, for a change I'm not writing dub questions to the main
        list!  This time, just some advice and maybe hand-holding ...
        with a pat/back and "That's all right; you didn't have any
        choice."

        I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
        much preferred the computer *without* an OS, but hell will freeze
        over before that happens.  Nutshell, it's got XP on it and I'd
        like to know if I can scrape it off and either give or sell it.
        And if so:exactly how.  It *is* old-fashioned as some reviewers
        wrote in '05, but it has Only the trackstick or stictrak to move
        the pointer.  No scratch-and-sniff pad where I'll rest my palm.
        Built-in wireless and built-in cable jack.  

        So: should I just drop in 7.1-R or Ubuntu-XYZ over the Windows
        or what?  The ONLY use I'd ever have to use W is to play my
        French CD's. O/wise it's useless.

        thanks for any insights,

        gary



--
 Gary Kline  kline@...  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
        http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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[Peter Jeremy]

On 2008-Oct-10 16:43:17 -0700, Gary Kline <kline@...> wrote:
> I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
> much preferred the computer *without* an OS, but hell will freeze
> over before that happens.  Nutshell, it's got XP on it and I'd
> like to know if I can scrape it off and either give or sell it.

It should have either been supplied with recovery disks or have
embedded software that will allow you to build recovery disks.
Unfortunately, the latter mechanism will require you to complete the
XP install process before you can create the recovery disks.  Also, my
understanding (IANAL and TINLA) is that the XP license you have is not
transferrable so you would not be able to legally give/sell it to
someone else and I also believe the license key is linked to the
hardware configuration and may not work on (eg) a whitebox desktop.  I
suggest you read the fine print in the EULA before attempting to sell
it.

> So: should I just drop in 7.1-R or Ubuntu-XYZ over the Windows
> or what?  The ONLY use I'd ever have to use W is to play my
> French CD's. O/wise it's useless.

Your other approach is to shrink the XP partition (Knoppix includes
suitable tools or you can search the Internet) and put FreeBSD (or
Ubuntu - but this is a FreeBSD list) on the rest of the disk.  I used
this approach on a HP laptop and managed to shoe-horn XP into 5GB
(though if you actually want to use it, you'd be better off with a
bit more space).

--
Peter Jeremy
Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement
an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour.

[Ian Smith-12]

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Gary Kline wrote:
 > Well, for a change I'm not writing dub questions to the main
 > list!  This time, just some advice and maybe hand-holding ...
 > with a pat/back and "That's all right; you didn't have any
 > choice."
 >
 > I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have

Gary, what model & type is it?  Exactly?  Doesn't sound like a T43, they
have a touchpad I think, and - we've been here before - I haven't heard
of any single-core Thinkpads clocked faster than about 2.2GHz.

 > much preferred the computer *without* an OS, but hell will freeze
 > over before that happens.  Nutshell, it's got XP on it and I'd
 > like to know if I can scrape it off and either give or sell it.

Scraping it off is as easy as deleting its slice in sysinstall.  I doubt
you can (legally) sell or even give it away, and who'd want it anyway?

 > And if so:exactly how.  It *is* old-fashioned as some reviewers
 > wrote in '05, but it has Only the trackstick or stictrak to move
 > the pointer.  No scratch-and-sniff pad where I'll rest my palm.

I'm waiting for some guinea pig to try an Adesso Easy Cat external
touchpad on one (U$40 or so).  I've asked several times, but noone so
far admits to having tried one of these on any FreeBSD box.  I gather
that at a minimum they emulate standard PS/2 or USB mice, with tap,
double-tap and drag and possibly right-click-tap, out of the box.

 > Built-in wireless and built-in cable jack.  

Before you wipe anything you could boot off disc 1, or -bootonly, and
save a dmesg so we can see what all the hardware is, though given the
model and type numbers, someone will likely already have [had] one.

 > So: should I just drop in 7.1-R or Ubuntu-XYZ over the Windows
 > or what?  The ONLY use I'd ever have to use W is to play my
 > French CD's. O/wise it's useless.

If the HD has plenty of room, you could shrink the doze slice down to
enough to boot and use it if need be, maybe 4-6GB for XP, using one of
the various tools such as Partition Magic.  Depending on its model, you
may need to boot windows to do the BIOS and Embedded Controller updates,
though many more recent(?) models have bootable ISO images available.

cheers, Ian
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[Gary Kline-5]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:27:03PM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote:
> On 2008-Oct-10 16:43:17 -0700, Gary Kline <kline@...> wrote:
> > I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
> > much preferred the computer *without* an OS, but hell will freeze
> > over before that happens.  Nutshell, it's got XP on it and I'd
> > like to know if I can scrape it off and either give or sell it.
>
> It should have either been supplied with recovery disks or have
> embedded software that will allow you to build recovery disks.


        This is an old (2005) l'top; used.  The place I bought it is in
        Canada.  I aked the dealer if he could remove it.  He said:
        "Write 'No OS wanted' in the comment section."  Which I did,
        naturally.  I wrote this guy a polite letter expressing my
        dissatisfaction.

        Zip. No reply.  --Of course with the global house-of-cards
        economy what it is, he wasn't going to say *anything*.


> Unfortunately, the latter mechanism will require you to complete the
> XP install process before you can create the recovery disks.  Also, my
> understanding (IANAL and TINLA) is that the XP license you have is not
> transferrable so you would not be able to legally give/sell it to
> someone else and I also believe the license key is linked to the
> hardware configuration and may not work on (eg) a whitebox desktop.  I
> suggest you read the fine print in the EULA before attempting to sell
> it.

        There was nothing but the computer and the cords.  Transformer.
        Zero booklets, zero docs.  I can probably find a DOS program to
        extract the key for this year XP, but if is illegal to sell,
        well, that how the world turns... .

>
> > So: should I just drop in 7.1-R or Ubuntu-XYZ over the Windows
> > or what?  The ONLY use I'd ever have to use W is to play my
> > French CD's. O/wise it's useless.
>
> Your other approach is to shrink the XP partition (Knoppix includes
> suitable tools or you can search the Internet) and put FreeBSD (or
> Ubuntu - but this is a FreeBSD list) on the rest of the disk.  I used
> this approach on a HP laptop and managed to shoe-horn XP into 5GB
> (though if you actually want to use it, you'd be better off with a
> bit more space).

        thanks for your input....

>
> --
> Peter Jeremy
> Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement
> an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour.



--
 Gary Kline  kline@...  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
        http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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[Gary Kline-5]

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:09:45PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Gary Kline wrote:
>  > Well, for a change I'm not writing dub questions to the main
>  > list!  This time, just some advice and maybe hand-holding ...
>  > with a pat/back and "That's all right; you didn't have any
>  > choice."
>  >
>  > I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
>
> Gary, what model & type is it?  Exactly?  Doesn't sound like a T43, they
> have a touchpad I think, and - we've been here before - I haven't heard
> of any single-core Thinkpads clocked faster than about 2.2GHz.

        It's a G41.  --if i said t43, my mind was *thinking* "g41"; too
        often i'll be thinking one thing but my fingers type something
        else, maybe close, maybe not!  (yes, i am way short on sleep
        again:)  (*mumble*)  I'll need help it turning the laptop over
        and getting the full model, type, &c.

        i Have run the Windows part and used the firefox to go places,
        but that's about all.  haven't done more because I've got to  get
        another CAT5 cable.  
>
>  > much preferred the computer *without* an OS, but hell will freeze
>  > over before that happens.  Nutshell, it's got XP on it and I'd
>  > like to know if I can scrape it off and either give or sell it.
>
> Scraping it off is as easy as deleting its slice in sysinstall.  I doubt
> you can (legally) sell or even give it away, and who'd want it anyway?
>


        LOLOL.  Nobody is his right mind!!  The reason I brought it up
        was that my 600E that i bought on ebay was sold without any OS.  
        (I was smiling for a month.)

        Anyway, in case you need some (clearing my throat) "fertilizer",
        I can send you what i've scraped off.  


>  > And if so:exactly how.  It *is* old-fashioned as some reviewers
>  > wrote in '05, but it has Only the trackstick or stictrak to move
>  > the pointer.  No scratch-and-sniff pad where I'll rest my palm.
>
> I'm waiting for some guinea pig to try an Adesso Easy Cat external
> touchpad on one (U$40 or so).  I've asked several times, but noone so
> far admits to having tried one of these on any FreeBSD box.  I gather
> that at a minimum they emulate standard PS/2 or USB mice, with tap,
> double-tap and drag and possibly right-click-tap, out of the box.


        By touchpad I'm assuming you mean that thing you scrape with your
        fingernails, correct? Or maybe pressed your fingers?  I've tried
        that on my daughter's Macbook and i just don't have the
        dexterity.  A few weeks--nay, a few days-- of cursor-moving that
        way: man, the guys in white coats would have to haul me away.  
        Exactly why somebody doesn't make a keyboard with a mouse-curse
        track-stick on it, I don't know.  Mose buttons could be beside
        the space bar.  Think of the kilometers of saved travel-time going
        to from mouse and keyboard.   --starting to rant, sorry--




>
>  > Built-in wireless and built-in cable jack.  
>
> Before you wipe anything you could boot off disc 1, or -bootonly, and
> save a dmesg so we can see what all the hardware is, though given the
> model and type numbers, someone will likely already have [had] one.


        I'll poke around on web and on computer.  It's heavy for a
        "portable"; 11 lbs to ship, so 8or 9 probably. Did I mention that
        I had the guy upgrad to a 120G drive and 2GB of DDR?  

>
>  > So: should I just drop in 7.1-R or Ubuntu-XYZ over the Windows
>  > or what?  The ONLY use I'd ever have to use W is to play my
>  > French CD's. O/wise it's useless.
>
> If the HD has plenty of room, you could shrink the doze slice down to
> enough to boot and use it if need be, maybe 4-6GB for XP, using one of
> the various tools such as Partition Magic.  Depending on its model, you
> may need to boot windows to do the BIOS and Embedded Controller updates,
> though many more recent(?) models have bootable ISO images available.

        Mmm.  The more I think about it, the less use I have for anything
        M$.  I mean, there are few people alive as ch--thrifty as I am.
        But I ain't stoopid enough to waste hours -> days to run an OS to
        play my French CDs.  
>
> cheers, Ian

        have a good one,

        gary



--
 Gary Kline  kline@...  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
        http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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[Peter Jeremy]

On 2008-Oct-11 01:31:36 -0700, Gary Kline <kline@...> wrote:
> This is an old (2005) l'top; used.

In which case, it probably shouldn't have come with an OS.

> Zero booklets, zero docs.  I can probably find a DOS program to
> extract the key for this year XP, but if is illegal to sell,
> well, that how the world turns... .

Normally, there would be a Microsoft sticker on the computer that is
both the "proof of license" and gives the license key.

--
Peter Jeremy
Please excuse any delays as the result of my ISP's inability to implement
an MTA that is either RFC2821-compliant or matches their claimed behaviour.

[Ian Smith-12]

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008, Gary Kline wrote:
 > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:09:45PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote:
 > > On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Gary Kline wrote:
[..]
 > >  > I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
 > >
 > > Gary, what model & type is it?  Exactly?  Doesn't sound like a T43, they
 > > have a touchpad I think, and - we've been here before - I haven't heard
 > > of any single-core Thinkpads clocked faster than about 2.2GHz.
 >
 > It's a G41.  --if i said t43, my mind was *thinking* "g41"; too
 > often i'll be thinking one thing but my fingers type something
 > else, maybe close, maybe not!  (yes, i am way short on sleep
 > again:)  (*mumble*)  I'll need help it turning the laptop over
 > and getting the full model, type, &c.

Fair enough.  Well I'd never even heard of the G-series before, so it's
news to me.  I see they do sport a Mobile P4 from 3.06 up to 3.46GHz.
Best reference I found is: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:G41

 > Anyway, in case you need some (clearing my throat) "fertilizer",
 > I can send you what i've scraped off.  

Thanks all the same, but we have chooks here for that ..

 > >  > And if so:exactly how.  It *is* old-fashioned as some reviewers
 > >  > wrote in '05, but it has Only the trackstick or stictrak to move
 > >  > the pointer.  No scratch-and-sniff pad where I'll rest my palm.
 > >
 > > I'm waiting for some guinea pig to try an Adesso Easy Cat external
 > > touchpad on one (U$40 or so).  I've asked several times, but noone so
 > > far admits to having tried one of these on any FreeBSD box.  I gather
 > > that at a minimum they emulate standard PS/2 or USB mice, with tap,
 > > double-tap and drag and possibly right-click-tap, out of the box.
 >
 > By touchpad I'm assuming you mean that thing you scrape with your
 > fingernails, correct? Or maybe pressed your fingers?  I've tried
 > that on my daughter's Macbook and i just don't have the
 > dexterity.  A few weeks--nay, a few days-- of cursor-moving that
 > way: man, the guys in white coats would have to haul me away.  
 > Exactly why somebody doesn't make a keyboard with a mouse-curse
 > track-stick on it, I don't know.  Mose buttons could be beside
 > the space bar.  Think of the kilometers of saved travel-time going
 > to from mouse and keyboard.   --starting to rant, sorry--

That's the one.  For years I've done most of my day to day work on a '99
Compaq 1500c laptop that refuses to die, though its second keyboard is
getting sloppy, but it has the best touchpad I've used including several
more recent laptops including MY daughter's Macs.  I'm still not ready
to move to my T23 for day to day work despite its excellent keyboard,
after quite regular attempts at being at least half as productive with
its TrackPoint.  People keep telling me that I'll get used to it ..

Maybe I'll just have to be my own guinea pig, though it's now ~A$100 ..

 > >  > Built-in wireless and built-in cable jack.  
 > >
 > > Before you wipe anything you could boot off disc 1, or -bootonly, and
 > > save a dmesg so we can see what all the hardware is, though given the
 > > model and type numbers, someone will likely already have [had] one.
 >
 > I'll poke around on web and on computer.  It's heavy for a
 > "portable"; 11 lbs to ship, so 8or 9 probably. Did I mention that
 > I had the guy upgrad to a 120G drive and 2GB of DDR?  

No, but that's good.  Yeah it looks pretty chunky, hardly for the lap,
still it'll use a lot less power than a desktop and likely last forever.  
I see options include 3 screens, either Intel or NVidia video, 2 wifi
adaptors (both Atheros based, should work) and 2 Broadcomm LAN adaptors.

 > >  > So: should I just drop in 7.1-R or Ubuntu-XYZ over the Windows
 > >  > or what?  The ONLY use I'd ever have to use W is to play my
 > >  > French CD's. O/wise it's useless.
 > >
 > > If the HD has plenty of room, you could shrink the doze slice down to
 > > enough to boot and use it if need be, maybe 4-6GB for XP, using one of
 > > the various tools such as Partition Magic.  Depending on its model, you
 > > may need to boot windows to do the BIOS and Embedded Controller updates,
 > > though many more recent(?) models have bootable ISO images available.
 >
 > Mmm.  The more I think about it, the less use I have for anything
 > M$.  I mean, there are few people alive as ch--thrifty as I am.
 > But I ain't stoopid enough to waste hours -> days to run an OS to
 > play my French CDs.  

Well do check the IBM/Lenovo site regarding its BIOS and EC versions,
and be sure to install the latest ones, especially regarding ACPI, as
you'll probably want to run powerd to keep it running cool when idle.

Ah, just downloaded the Hardware Maintenance Manual referenced on that
ThinkWiki page to add to my collection .. gotta love IBM manuals .. and
see that a) some actually went up to 3.73GHz, whee, and b) it has a
floppy drive, which may make BIOS upgrading less tedious, though you may
still need to make floppy/s on a 'doze box (eg this one before wiping?)

All in all, it looks like a pretty useful sort of machine, if you're not
planning to cart it around too much.  Can I ask what you paid for it?

cheers, Ian
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[Gary Kline-5]

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 06:29:05PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008, Gary Kline wrote:
>  > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 01:09:45PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote:
>  > > On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, Gary Kline wrote:
> [..]
>  > >  > I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
> Fair enough.  Well I'd never even heard of the G-series before, so it's
> news to me.  I see they do sport a Mobile P4 from 3.06 up to 3.46GHz.
> Best reference I found is: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:G41
>
>  > Anyway, in case you need some (clearing my throat) "fertilizer",
>  > I can send you what i've scraped off.  
>
> Thanks all the same, but we have chooks here for that ..
>

        :-)

>
> That's the one.  For years I've done most of my day to day work on a '99
> Compaq 1500c laptop that refuses to die, though its second keyboard is
> getting sloppy, but it has the best touchpad I've used including several
> more recent laptops including MY daughter's Macs.  I'm still not ready
> to move to my T23 for day to day work despite its excellent keyboard,
> after quite regular attempts at being at least half as productive with
> its TrackPoint.  People keep telling me that I'll get used to it ..
>
> Maybe I'll just have to be my own guinea pig, though it's now ~A$100 ..
>

        i Bought some kind of 1980 clicky keyboard: ~$90US.  But it's
        very, very nice.  I can hear every key, even tho I watch the
        keyboad and not the display.  [never learned to type].  

>  >
>  > I'll poke around on web and on computer.  It's heavy for a
>  > "portable"; 11 lbs to ship, so 8or 9 probably. Did I mention that
>  > I had the guy upgrad to a 120G drive and 2GB of DDR?  
>
> No, but that's good.  Yeah it looks pretty chunky, hardly for the lap,
> still it'll use a lot less power than a desktop and likely last forever.  

        LOL, that's the idea.  My bare-bones AMD sux up more watts that
        our old refrigerator.... now that was had to believe until I
        actually bought a Watt-O-Meter [or whatever].  As soon as I have
        7.1 or Ubuntu 8.xx, I can turn off the home-brew and relax
        knowing that I'm that kmuch greener.


> I see options include 3 screens, either Intel or NVidia video, 2 wifi
> adaptors (both Atheros based, should work) and 2 Broadcomm LAN adaptors.
>

        I guess it does pay to look on the underside.  The DOZE key is
        there along with several other numbers.  Is this the S/N:
        99 - A0776 ??   You're right about it not being a brgain l'top.
        --Well, if you are 6-foot-6... .


>
> Well do check the IBM/Lenovo site regarding its BIOS and EC versions,
> and be sure to install the latest ones, especially regarding ACPI, as
> you'll probably want to run powerd to keep it running cool when idle.


        I'll check this out.  Seems like the XP powers down within a few
        minutes.  Maybe I'll try to upgrad the BIOS while I've still got
        the DOS on there.  I've nevver upgraded a BIOS so this will be a
        new one.  --Still waiting to get a new /used 25" CAT5 cable.
        tHe one from '03 is flakey.--

>
> Ah, just downloaded the Hardware Maintenance Manual referenced on that
> ThinkWiki page to add to my collection .. gotta love IBM manuals .. and
> see that a) some actually went up to 3.73GHz, whee, and b) it has a
> floppy drive, which may make BIOS upgrading less tedious, though you may
> still need to make floppy/s on a 'doze box (eg this one before wiping?)
>

        No floppy drive with the computer.  I did save the one from my
        600E.  This model runs at 3.06GHz.  Should be fast enough since
        I'll use use part of the memory as a drive.  --Floppy/s; have to
        search around, or beg, borrow, steal!


> All in all, it looks like a pretty useful sort of machine, if you're not
> planning to cart it around too much.

        Furthest is over to the branch library.  But only if I can find a
        winch:)
> Can I ask what you paid for it?  Got it from Quebeck and haven't kept
track of the exchange rate.  But the original was $600+ $95 for the
upgrade. Plus 3-day rush-rush shipping.  NO BLOODY IDEA why the shipping
had to be so fast....

Anyway around 735Can$.  But this one will probably outlive me, so I
figure it was a good deal.  

gary



>
> cheers, Ian

--
 Gary Kline  kline@...  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
        http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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[Gary Kline-5]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 04:43:17PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:

>
> I just bought the last pre-Lenovo [?] IBM ThinkPad.  I would have
> much preferred the computer *without* an OS, but hell will freeze
> over before that happens.  Nutshell, it's got XP on it and I'd
> like to know if I can scrape it off and either give or sell it.
> And if so:exactly how.  It *is* old-fashioned as some reviewers
> wrote in '05, but it has Only the trackstick or stictrak to move
> the pointer.  No scratch-and-sniff pad where I'll rest my palm.
> Built-in wireless and built-in cable jack.  
>

        Well, guys, the G41 Thinkpad had a bad cat5 jack, and the
        "Customer Support" chap at portefix.com had not replied to two
        (polite) letters.   The site has a [Canadian] BBB logo; that's
        the only reason I risked dealing with them.

        I've already taken Step #1: writing to the Quebec BBB.  See
        what happens.  Meanwhile, beware of buying anything from this
        tiny (2-person) dealer.  (*sigh*)
--
 Gary Kline  kline@...  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
        http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org


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