Things GIMP do not have, or I do not know if have

[Lap1994]

Here, a list of things GIMP do not have, in my mind:

A ellipse tool to draw ellipse, as a rectangle tool to draw rectangle, and  
a polygon tool to draw ah, you know.
A method to draw text using a system like boards systems to change text  
properties, font, style, size stuff. Like using <b>bold here!</b>
A way to draw curves.
A way to deny modifications in a layer, and a way to change this property
A method to organize layers.
A method to assign a same mask to various layer modifying one mask
A gradient color with more colors. Like Flash where you can set more than  
two colors in a gradient.
I key shortcut to stop drawing layer outline

Here ends my list.

More any suggestion well capable to pass non-noticed? Foward here.
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[David Gowers]

Hi,

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Lap1994 <Lap1994@...> wrote:
> Here, a list of things GIMP do not have, in my mind:
>
>  A ellipse tool to draw ellipse, as a rectangle tool to draw rectangle, and
>  a polygon tool to draw ah, you know.
You are currently expected to use the appropriate selection tools and
then fill the resulting selection.
see
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65197
for a related bug report.

>  A method to draw text using a system like boards systems to change text
>  properties, font, style, size stuff. Like using <b>bold here!</b>
>  A way to draw curves.
Do you mean, like GIMP's paths tool? (key shortcut = B)

>  A way to deny modifications in a layer, and a way to change this property
>  A method to organize layers.
>  A method to assign a same mask to various layer modifying one mask
>  A gradient color with more colors. Like Flash where you can set more than
>  two colors in a gradient.

Easily done -- a gradient can have however many colors you want.
1. Bring up the Gradients dialog
2. Create a new gradient
3. Double-click on it to edit it
4. Make the necessary changes (you can use 'split uniformly' to split
a given gradient segment into several segments. If you can find a menu
item like this but it doesn't read sensibly, then that is a bug in the
translation, which you should report.)

>  I key shortcut to stop drawing layer outline
You can assign a key shortcut yourself.

>
>  Here ends my list.
>
>  More any suggestion well capable to pass non-noticed? Foward here.
>  --
>  Check my gallery!
>  http://lap1994.deviantart.com
>  _______________________________________________
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[Michael J. Hammel]

On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 09:47 -0300, Lap1994 wrote:
> A ellipse tool to draw ellipse, as a rectangle tool to draw rectangle, and  
> a polygon tool to draw ah, you know.

You do this by stroking selections.  The Rectangular and Elliptical
selections will cover the first two, and the Paths tool (converted to a
selection) will cover the latter.

On the other hand, I once wrote a plugin (GFXShapes) for creating a
number of basic shapes.  It was part of a set of plugins I called the
Graphics Muse tools.  It's written for GIMP 2.2 but it works (as far as
I can tell) under GIMP 2.4.  You can grab a copy of the source code from
my web site: http://www.ximba.org/sw/gfxmuse/GFXMuseTools-3.0.0B2.tar.gz
The web site with docs is: http://www.ximba.org/gfxmuse/gfxmuse.html

Not to mention GFig, which draws lots of shapes for you:
Filters->Render->GFig.

> A method to draw text using a system like boards systems to change text  
> properties, font, style, size stuff. Like using <b>bold here!</b>

GIMP doesn't do that currently.  I'd cringe at adding it to the core
system since I consider that feature-creep.  But providing the right API
for a plugin to handle it would be a nice addition.

> A way to draw curves.

Use the Paths tool.  Click once to drop an endpoint to the curve.  Click
again to drop the second.  In the Tool Options, switch to Edit mode and
then click on each end point and drag out to get an anchor point to
adjust the shape of the curve.  Then use Stoke Path in the Tool Options.

> A way to deny modifications in a layer, and a way to change this property

That would be nice.  GIMP currently does not suppor this in 2.4.

> A method to organize layers.

A plugin could do that pretty easily.  Define "organize".  Remember that
you can drag layers up and down the stack in the Layers dialog.  You can
align layers using the Alignment Tool from the toolbox.  GFXLayers in my
Graphics Muse Tools also does this though I think the Alignment tool is
probably a simpler to use interface.

> A method to assign a same mask to various layer modifying one mask

Not sure what you mean here, but you can copy and paste masks.  You
can't link a single mask to multiple layers, however.  Linking masks to
multiple layers might be a nice feature.

> A gradient color with more colors. Like Flash where you can set more than  
> two colors in a gradient.

You can set as many colors as you want in gradients.  Use the gradient
editor ("New gradient" button the Gradients dialog).

> I key shortcut to stop drawing layer outline

You can dynamically set keyboard shortcuts for any menu item that does
not already have one: File->Keyboard Shortcuts (from the Toolbox menus).
Find your item, click on it and then type the keyboard shortcut.  For
example, change View->Show Layer Boundary to use Ctrl-? (re:
Ctrl-Shift-/) you just find View->Show Layer Boundary in the Configure
Keyboard Shortcuts dialog, click on it and then type Ctrl-Shift-/.

--
Michael J. Hammel                                    Principal Software Engineer
mjhammel@...                           http://graphics-muse.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  The time it will take before the breadth of human knowledge is available on
   the Internet is precisely inverse to the amount of time it took to remove
               it from cable television.  --  Michael J. Hammel

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[Nathan Lane]

Yep, Lap,

All of these tools/capabilities are already part of GIMP. Ensure that you have the latest version, but most of these have been there from the start.

Nathan

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Michael J. Hammel <mjhammel@...> wrote:

On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 09:47 -0300, Lap1994 wrote:
> A ellipse tool to draw ellipse, as a rectangle tool to draw rectangle, and
> a polygon tool to draw ah, you know.

You do this by stroking selections.  The Rectangular and Elliptical
selections will cover the first two, and the Paths tool (converted to a
selection) will cover the latter.

On the other hand, I once wrote a plugin (GFXShapes) for creating a
number of basic shapes.  It was part of a set of plugins I called the
Graphics Muse tools.  It's written for GIMP 2.2 but it works (as far as
I can tell) under GIMP 2.4.  You can grab a copy of the source code from
my web site: http://www.ximba.org/sw/gfxmuse/GFXMuseTools-3.0.0B2.tar.gz
The web site with docs is: http://www.ximba.org/gfxmuse/gfxmuse.html

Not to mention GFig, which draws lots of shapes for you:
Filters->Render->GFig.

> A method to draw text using a system like boards systems to change text
> properties, font, style, size stuff. Like using <b>bold here!</b>

GIMP doesn't do that currently.  I'd cringe at adding it to the core
system since I consider that feature-creep.  But providing the right API
for a plugin to handle it would be a nice addition.

> A way to draw curves.

Use the Paths tool.  Click once to drop an endpoint to the curve.  Click
again to drop the second.  In the Tool Options, switch to Edit mode and
then click on each end point and drag out to get an anchor point to
adjust the shape of the curve.  Then use Stoke Path in the Tool Options.

> A way to deny modifications in a layer, and a way to change this property

That would be nice.  GIMP currently does not suppor this in 2.4.

> A method to organize layers.

A plugin could do that pretty easily.  Define "organize".  Remember that
you can drag layers up and down the stack in the Layers dialog.  You can
align layers using the Alignment Tool from the toolbox.  GFXLayers in my
Graphics Muse Tools also does this though I think the Alignment tool is
probably a simpler to use interface.

> A method to assign a same mask to various layer modifying one mask

Not sure what you mean here, but you can copy and paste masks.  You
can't link a single mask to multiple layers, however.  Linking masks to
multiple layers might be a nice feature.

> A gradient color with more colors. Like Flash where you can set more than
> two colors in a gradient.

You can set as many colors as you want in gradients.  Use the gradient
editor ("New gradient" button the Gradients dialog).

> I key shortcut to stop drawing layer outline

You can dynamically set keyboard shortcuts for any menu item that does
not already have one: File->Keyboard Shortcuts (from the Toolbox menus).
Find your item, click on it and then type the keyboard shortcut.  For
example, change View->Show Layer Boundary to use Ctrl-? (re:
Ctrl-Shift-/) you just find View->Show Layer Boundary in the Configure
Keyboard Shortcuts dialog, click on it and then type Ctrl-Shift-/.

--
Michael J. Hammel                                    Principal Software Engineer
mjhammel@...                           http://graphics-muse.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The time it will take before the breadth of human knowledge is available on
  the Internet is precisely inverse to the amount of time it took to remove
              it from cable television.  --  Michael J. Hammel

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Blog, http://nathandelane.blogspot.com
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[dapperhoo]

Michael J. Hammel wrote:
>
>> A method to draw text using a system like boards systems to change text  
>> properties, font, style, size stuff. Like using <b>bold here!</b>
>>    
>
> GIMP doesn't do that currently.  I'd cringe at adding it to the core
> system since I consider that feature-creep.  But providing the right API
> for a plugin to handle it would be a nice addition.
>  

You consider a proper text tool in the core feature-creep?  I find that
odd.  Every major player in this software category implements a tool of
this sort as a matter of course and in the core.  Do you VERY rarely use
text in GIMP?

Granted, you do mention a plugin, but if you make it a plugin, it will
not be as fast or as straightforward to use, almost like an
afterthought.  Should the user really have to open a plugin window just
to add a word?  Modularity is great, but text ranks on the order of a
paintbrush tool in importance IMHO.

Ben


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[Nathan Lane]

Good point, probably - but Inkscape does an extremely good job at working with text and SVG along with the vector lines can be imported and manipulated in the GIMP. That's not too bad. I think.

Nathan

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Ben Walker <dapperhoo@...> wrote:

Michael J. Hammel wrote:
>
>> A method to draw text using a system like boards systems to change text
>> properties, font, style, size stuff. Like using <b>bold here!</b>
>>
>
> GIMP doesn't do that currently.  I'd cringe at adding it to the core
> system since I consider that feature-creep.  But providing the right API
> for a plugin to handle it would be a nice addition.
>

You consider a proper text tool in the core feature-creep?  I find that
odd.  Every major player in this software category implements a tool of
this sort as a matter of course and in the core.  Do you VERY rarely use
text in GIMP?

Granted, you do mention a plugin, but if you make it a plugin, it will
not be as fast or as straightforward to use, almost like an
afterthought.  Should the user really have to open a plugin window just
to add a word?  Modularity is great, but text ranks on the order of a
paintbrush tool in importance IMHO.

Ben

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[Michael J. Hammel]

On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 19:49 -0600, Ben Walker wrote:
> You consider a proper text tool in the core feature-creep?  

In a raster image editor, yes.

> I find that
> odd.  Every major player in this software category implements a tool of
> this sort as a matter of course and in the core.  

I can't speak for the developers, but I'm fairly certain the "major
players" have never been the compelling reason to implement anything in
the GIMP.  If open source simply followed the major players, Firefox
would have to be embedded in the Linux kernel.

> Do you VERY rarely use
> text in GIMP?

Not that much, no.  Certainly not for anything that requires extensive
formatting on a single line.  If I really need to do fancy, extended
text with large amounts of character formatting on multiple lines of
text, I use a more appropriate tool (OpenOffice, Inkscape or Scribus
come to mind).  I prefer to rasterize the text and let the GIMP format
the text in the way raster editors do best - pixel by pixel.  See the
section on Type Effects in my book.

In my (extremely humble) opinion, just because you can hammer a nail
with a pair of pliers doesn't make it the best tool for the job.

> Granted, you do mention a plugin, but if you make it a plugin, it will
> not be as fast or as straightforward to use, almost like an
> afterthought.  

Depends on the API.  There is nothing preventing it from from being
tightly integrated with the core even as a plugin except the structure
of the API.  As an example, you can tightly integrate Java plugins into
core Java applications using JPF (not that I like Java all the much, I
just happen to forced into using it at work at the moment).

That said, the current GIMP API does have limitations that would
probably prevent such a plugin.  I'm not clear on how this might change
with GEGL.  I'm kind of out of the loop on GEGL capabilities right now
(just not enough time to keep up with everything).

> Should the user really have to open a plugin window just
> to add a word?  

You already open a dialog to add text.  But adding text without the
dialog would be nice too.  I'm just not in favor of implementing a full
scale text editor with extensive character and paragraph formatting
support in the core of a raster image editor.  There are more
appropriate tools for that.  

A better solution would probably be a common interface for tools like
Inkscape, Scribus and GIMP to share data, probably vector data in XML
format.  Then you can use Inkscape or Scribus to do your text editing
and import it into GIMP using this TBD common interface.

Keep in mind, these are just random thoughts.  I'm not a developer of
the GIMP.  Just a fan.

> Modularity is great, but text ranks on the order of a
> paintbrush tool in importance IMHO.

Fair enough.  I just have a different HO.  :-)  
--
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mjhammel@...                      http://www.ximba.org
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[Chris Mohler]

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Michael J. Hammel
<mjhammel@...> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 19:49 -0600, Ben Walker wrote:
>  > You consider a proper text tool in the core feature-creep?
>
>  In a raster image editor, yes.

Personally I disagree - I'm eagerly awaiting the GSoC update to the
text tool, and I hope it results in an improvement in 2.8.  I
certainly use workarounds like styling text in other (usually vector)
programs and rasterizing it in GIMP - however, I do consider them to
be workarounds as opposed to solutions.

I agree that some type of third-party type-styling tool would be
optimal (anyone ever use TypeStyler on old-world mac?), but I just
don't see anything materializing soon.  In lieu of that, a more robust
type handling in GIMP would be much appreciated.  Even simple things
like rotating text and still being able to edit the content would make
my life a lot simpler.

As a freelancer, I use GIMP as a design tool  for a number of reasons.
 The first is that I enjoy using it more than the Other Program.  The
Python interface is another.  FOSS is another important reason.  The
fact that I run linux as my primary OS helps too :)  And I do love
GIMP - but all of that aside, in the graphic design world text is now
just as integral to a production image as a photograph and should be
treated accordingly.  Whether or not this is accomplished through a
port of the text tool to cairo/pango or the addition of a plugin is up
to the (most highly respected) developers, but I think enough of us
are wishing for it to make it happen.  GD work (in my experience) is
almost always verging on a train wreck - an improvement in GIMP's text
tool would certainly help me keep it on the rails :)

Chris
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[Brendan-24]

On Wednesday 23 April 2008, Michael J. Hammel wrote:
> the GIMP.  If open source simply followed the major players, Firefox
> would have to be embedded in the Linux kernel.

That's a bit of a straw man argument, and you know it.
Firefox and IE are nearly identical, UI-wise.
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