Nabble - The Airshipworld Mailinglist

Re: Airship over Rome

2008-11-27T20:37:12Z

Great video, but a... shall we say... unusual choice of backing music.

("The Future" by Leonard Cohen for those wondering)

On Nov 15, 2008, at 2:07 AM, Norge wrote:

>
> Here is another link to our airship flying over Rome. This is an
> AS105GD
> Thermal Airship 42 metres in length with seating capacity for 4
> persons
> manufactured by Gefa Flug.
> We are currently on tour in Italy overflying most major cities
> including
> Palermo in Sicilia and finishing in Naples in Decemeber.
>
> http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=-L268leqJfw
>
> Hope you enjoy it.
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Airship-over-Rome-tp20513933p20513933.html
> Sent from the The Airshipworld Mailinglist mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The-List mailing list
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>

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Re: Heating Helium?

2008-11-24T22:26:06Z

it will work!!!

Airship over Rome

2008-11-15T02:07:02Z

Here is another link to our airship flying over Rome. This is an AS105GD Thermal Airship 42 metres in length with seating capacity for 4 persons manufactured by Gefa Flug.
We are currently on tour in Italy overflying most major cities including Palermo in Sicilia and finishing in Naples in Decemeber.

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=-L268leqJfw

Hope you enjoy it.

Thunder and Colt AS-56 G-BNKF for sale in Tucson, Arizona

2008-10-26T08:56:04Z

Greetings fellow airship enthusiasts. I have a 1987 Thunder & Colt AS-56 Pressurized Thermal Airship for sale in pristine condition for $55,000. G-BNKF (British Registration) It has 44 hours total time - and that is not a misprint! It has been stored in Tucson, which is of course a dry, desert climate. Standard Airworthiness Certificate. Pilot only. Training is included in Tucson this winter, however I will only train the person that is purchasing. This ship would make a great entry level platform for anyone wanting to learn to fly an airship, or can be used for commercial advertising. Please send me an E-mail at RonKMiller@cs.com if you are interested and we can discuss details off line.

Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-10-24T17:30:37Z

<<Development model should be collaborative and the software or the
resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify them.
Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions for
designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.>>

Yes, good ideas.
The "groupware" should allow members to make changes and add notes to graphic sketches of other members and post them back to the website as suggested changes, but leaving the original sketch unchanged.
Also the groupware needs the ability to branch off into new designs so that one idea isn't foisted onto anyone else in the design team. Many designs may be underway simultaneously so not just one stale idea is all that's on offer.

Re: 7th International Airship Convention

2008-10-12T03:27:37Z

Hi Andreas,
I've forwarded a response that I had from Irene Lopez about the conference for your information.
Cheers,
Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Irene López" irene.lopez@...
To: crluffman@...
Sent: Thu 21/08/08 11:04
Subject: Fwd: Re: 7th International Airship Convention, 9 – 11 October 2008, Friedrichshafen
Aufnahmeantrag - DGLR.pdf (166.8 Kb) attached Dear Mr. Cluffman,

thank you for your kind lines and your interest in the Airship Convention as well as in the DGLR!

It is a great pity that you can´t join our interesting event but I´am also sure that Australia is an attractive alternative. So but at least you will receive the conventions details such as programme, handouts and proceeding at a cost of 90 € - when printed, I will send you an invoice and you will receive these things (but that will be after the congress for the final programme won´t be printed before!).

Moreover I´m very pleased to hear, that you want to be a member of the DGLR - a very good and useful decision - please find attached the application form, which has to be send back via fax or postal mail for your signature is necessary and please see on the first side there is a line *geworben durch*, I would be very thankful if you insert my name because this means a little bonus for me!

In case of any other concern, don´t hesitate to contact me and I´m looking forward to hearing from you,
best regards
Irene López
____________________________________
Dr. Irene López
D G L R - Deutsche Gesellschaft für Luft- und
Raumfahrt - Lilienthal-Oberth e.V.
Godesberger Allee 70
D - 53175 Bonn
Telefon: +49 2203-958692
Telefax: +49 228-30805-24
Email: irene.lopez@...
Internet: www.DGLR.de

--- On Sun, 12/10/08, Andreas Grunewald <airshipworld@...> wrote:

From: Andreas Grunewald <airshipworld@...>
Subject: [Airshipworld List] 7th International Airship Convention
To: "Airship List" <airship-list@...>, the-list@...
Date: Sunday, 12 October, 2008, 1:36 AM

Hello Everybody,
I am back from my vacation and I am also back from the 7th
International Airship Convention that took place this weekend in
Friedrichshafen.
It was a great event with close to if not over 150 attendees. I will
be writing about the conference and will give a short overview of each
session and
provide links to the people and organizations that did the sessions.
The Proceedings,
 Slides and Videos are not yet available but they
exist.
The DGLR together with the Airship Association will have to decide how
and when they are going to release these but you can rest assured that
I will cover this in the blog.
I personally hope that all videos, slides and papers will be available
online. Some of that content hopefully free that would be my private
wish.
But even if they are going to be made available for a small fee I
think it is a tremendous asset to have access to. For those who could
not be in every session, since there were two parallel tracks and for
those who could not make it to the conference. I got to tell you, you
missed something great.

So if you like follow along on the Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com in the coming weeks or maybe even
month while I go through the sessions and give you my review.
You can also subscribe for free if you haven't yet so you don't
 have
to check it, will be automatically delivered to you just like a
newsletter or a magazine.

Regards

Andreas G
-- 
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

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7th International Airship Convention

2008-10-11T16:36:25Z

Hello Everybody,
I am back from my vacation and I am also back from the 7th
International Airship Convention that took place this weekend in
Friedrichshafen.
It was a great event with close to if not over 150 attendees. I will
be writing about the conference and will give a short overview of each
session and
provide links to the people and organizations that did the sessions.
The Proceedings, Slides and Videos are not yet available but they
exist.
The DGLR together with the Airship Association will have to decide how
and when they are going to release these but you can rest assured that
I will cover this in the blog.
I personally hope that all videos, slides and papers will be available
online. Some of that content hopefully free that would be my private
wish.
But even if they are going to be made available for a small fee I
think it is a tremendous asset to have access to. For those who could
not be in every session, since there were two parallel tracks and for
those who could not make it to the conference. I got to tell you, you
missed something great.

So if you like follow along on the Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com in the coming weeks or maybe even
month while I go through the sessions and give you my review.
You can also subscribe for free if you haven't yet so you don't have
to check it, will be automatically delivered to you just like a
newsletter or a magazine.

Regards

Andreas G
--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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The-List@...
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Hybrid Air Vehicles Test HAV3 Demonstrator

2008-09-22T09:50:19Z

The Airship Association published an announcement of Hybrid Air Vehicles (see SkyCat),that on 10 September the first phase of flight testing the HAV3 scale demonstrator had commenced.Check it out at http://www.airship-association.org/news.html

Press Release - Zeppelin longer in Rotterdam (until September 21st)

2008-08-27T06:00:53Z

Zeppelin just issued a Press Release saying that the Zeppelin will be
staying 2 weeks longer in Rotterdam and thus will leave 2 weeks later
for the US.

Read the full German Release and the English autotranslation here:
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com/2008/08/zeppelin-now-longer-in-rotterdam-later.html

Regards

Andreas

--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-08-15T21:20:55Z

<<<
Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach.>>>

Definitely! Everyone has their pet designs. Mine is a solar-powered lifting body dirigible[!]

The design project should have many branches so that potential designers could choose the design which turned them on the most and therfore they would contribute more than they would for somebody else's favorite design. Soon, one design would develop momentum and move ahead of the others and that would attract more helpers and it would move even faster.

I see a designers' webpage with thumbnails of Sketchup 3D models of all submitted designs. Visitors could download the underlying Sketchup file and modify and improve it to their liking and offer it back to the webmaster. There's the bottleneck; someone's going to have to judge if the offer is good enough to publish. Otherwise some goofballs will want to publish their crap designs. Maybe their stuff could be put on an "honorable mention" page so that their ideas won't be totally ignored. And there might be a grain of merit in them.

But I love the co-operative design concept. [see my moribund near space elevator design effort at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/project/
The process could be called WikiDesign. The Wikipedia is successful, so could wikidesign! cheers for high flight, Nav in Key West

Turtle Airships

2008-08-06T06:37:28Z

hello everyone.

I´ve made a comment about the latest blog entry.....bit of wires crossed that put Turtle in with some poor company. Not Andreas' fault at all...just one of those things.
Anyway, it gave me a chance to say hello. Airship industry needs MORE interested parties!

A new Blog ? Yes! The Airshipworld Development Blog is born

2008-08-03T13:11:04Z

Hello everybody,
since this is a rather unofficial launch I am not publishing this on
the main Blog yet. Eventhough the link is there so if you want to find
it you do :-)
I want to announce the Airshipworld Development Blog
http://www.airshipworld.info/software/ a blog dedicated to software
that can be used to develop an airship. In todays high tech world I
believe it's about time that we upgrade our toolbox or even create it
new from scratch were it doesn't exist. I am currently developing a
little application. A preview screenshot is already available on the
Blog.
Tell me what you think, make suggestions and help me build it up.
I am going to announce the Blog and publish the software in October at
the Airship Convention until then the whole project will be a private
beta and stay under the radar just a little bit.

Regards

Andreas

--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

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New Airship Project over the Geoglyphs of Nazca

2008-07-22T00:15:47Z

Hello everybody,
I want to announce a great new Project that we have the honor to be
the first to write about.
Check out the Press Release and some pictures as well as Links to the
Airship Nazca Project

http://airshipworld.blogspot.com/2008/07/airship-will-fly-over-nazca-geoglyphs.html

Regards

Andreas G

--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Blogtip Airship article NYtimes

2008-07-13T13:56:12Z

Hey,
thank you again for the tip great to get input from my readers.
The article was featured here:
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-fly-when-you-can-float-article.html

Thanks again and keep those links coming.

Regards

Andreas

On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 3:48 AM, ulnu <ulnu@...> wrote:

>
> Why Fly When You Can Float?
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/business/worldbusiness/05dirigible.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
>
> Why Fly When You Can Float?
>
> Just found an article on airships.
> Since I have your URL http://airshipworld.blogspot.com/ bookmarked,
> Naturally, I thought of you.
>
> Yesterday, I spent a good number of minutes watching the Goodyear Blimp over
> the race track at Daytona Beach, Florida.
>
> Anyway, enclosed is a blog tip about an Article in the New York Times, found
> on the web. I am located in Central Florida, USA
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Blogtip--Airship-article-NYtimes-tp18308813p18308813.html
> Sent from the The Airshipworld Mailinglist mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The-List mailing list
> The-List@...
> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>

--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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The-List@...
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Blogtip Airship article NYtimes

2008-07-06T18:48:22Z

Why Fly When You Can Float?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/business/worldbusiness/05dirigible.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Why Fly When You Can Float?

Just found an article on airships.
Since I have your URL http://airshipworld.blogspot.com/ bookmarked, Naturally, I thought of you.

Yesterday, I spent a good number of minutes watching the Goodyear Blimp over the race track at Daytona Beach, Florida.

Anyway, enclosed is a blog tip about an Article in the New York Times, found on the web. I am located in Central Florida, USA

Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-07-03T05:19:09Z

Hey Andreas,
it's true we need calculations for the rigid structure inside too.
It's definetly another piece of the puzzle. Also importing 3D Models
should be a possibility we will have to prioritise how we are going to
do that but I believe it will be possible to implement that. Import as
well as Export.

Regards

Andreas Grunewald
--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Andreas Burkart
<Andreas.Burkart@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> this is a very good plan, I adore the first results of this project.
> While looking at regular todays airships, please do not forget, that
> there will be a specific need for calculating of rigid airships.
>
> So there is a need for a rigid frame inside the airship, and the
> calculation of bodys with some edges.
>
> My special wish is a possibility for importing 3D Modells for further
> calculatings
> and importing datasets of airfoils.
>
> Best wishes,
> Andreas
>
> 2008/7/3 Andreas Grunewald <airshipworld@...>:
>> Great Ideas Johannes,
>> I agree we should not build a monolithic rocket science tool. I think
>> having induvidual plugins in a platform that allows the plugins to
>> work together is the right approach. Starting small and growing by
>> delivering additional plugins for dedicated tasks.
>>
>> Let's start structuring all this and let's get something out of the
>> door quickly. Everyone is invited, please put your ideas into this.
>> Even if you are no computer person, and are just a user, we need you
>> to bring forward the requirements and biggest issues that require
>> solving.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Eißing
>> <johannes.eissing@...> wrote:
>>> Hi Andreas and all,
>>>
>>> I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later.
>>>
>>> Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry.
>>>
>>> Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great.
>>>
>>> To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement.
>>>
>>> Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution.
>>>
>>> Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!).
>>>
>>> Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights.
>>> W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html
>>>
>>> Resistance and Propulsion
>>> There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of.
>>>
>>> Well, more later,
>>> Best, Johannes
>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...>
>>>> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55
>>>> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...>
>>>> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey Great to get a reply.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote:
>>>> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices
>>>> and
>>>> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference?
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship
>>>> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld
>>>> that we can use to start compiling stuff.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us
>>>> design
>>>> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated
>>>> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute.
>>>> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or
>>>> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
>>>> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify >
>>>> them.
>>>> >
>>>> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating
>>>> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important
>>>> for
>>>> > airship design are not always intuitive.
>>>>
>>>> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development
>>>> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and
>>>> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put
>>>> that stuff directly into the Java programms.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information
>>>> from:
>>>> > Materials department -- composite materials models;
>>>> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into
>>>> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass
>>>> inertia,
>>>> > and elastic forces;
>>>> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models
>>>> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns
>>>>
>>>> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those
>>>> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of
>>>> their thesis or a project !?
>>>>
>>>> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named
>>>> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding
>>>> for
>>>> > such an effort?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline
>>>> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and
>>>> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can
>>>> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The
>>>> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev
>>>> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-)
>>>>
>>>> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions
>>>> for
>>>> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.
>>>> >
>>>> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp
>>>> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as
>>>> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals.
>>>>
>>>> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot
>>>> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using
>>>> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from
>>>> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good
>>>> start.
>>>> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its
>>>> high quality and the good framework it provides.
>>>>
>>>> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute.
>>>>
>>>> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer
>>>> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment)
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Best,
>>>> >
>>>> > Forrest Liau
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Editor of Airshipworld
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
>>>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> __._,_.___
>>>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new
>>>> topic
>>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members |
>>>> Calendar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Editor of Airshipworld
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
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Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-07-03T04:32:14Z

Hi,

this is a very good plan, I adore the first results of this project.
While looking at regular todays airships, please do not forget, that
there will be a specific need for calculating of rigid airships.

So there is a need for a rigid frame inside the airship, and the
calculation of bodys with some edges.

My special wish is a possibility for importing 3D Modells for further
calculatings
and importing datasets of airfoils.

Best wishes,
Andreas

2008/7/3 Andreas Grunewald <airshipworld@...>:

> Great Ideas Johannes,
> I agree we should not build a monolithic rocket science tool. I think
> having induvidual plugins in a platform that allows the plugins to
> work together is the right approach. Starting small and growing by
> delivering additional plugins for dedicated tasks.
>
> Let's start structuring all this and let's get something out of the
> door quickly. Everyone is invited, please put your ideas into this.
> Even if you are no computer person, and are just a user, we need you
> to bring forward the requirements and biggest issues that require
> solving.
>
> Regards
>
> Andreas
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Eißing
> <johannes.eissing@...> wrote:
>> Hi Andreas and all,
>>
>> I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later.
>>
>> Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry.
>>
>> Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great.
>>
>> To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement.
>>
>> Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution.
>>
>> Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!).
>>
>> Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights.
>> W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html
>>
>> Resistance and Propulsion
>> There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading.
>>
>> Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of.
>>
>> Well, more later,
>> Best, Johannes
>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...>
>>> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55
>>> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...>
>>> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
>>
>>
>>> Hey Great to get a reply.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote:
>>> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices
>>> and
>>> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference?
>>> >
>>> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship
>>> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively.
>>>
>>>
>>> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld
>>> that we can use to start compiling stuff.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us
>>> design
>>> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated
>>> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute.
>>> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or
>>> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
>>> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify >
>>> them.
>>> >
>>> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating
>>> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important
>>> for
>>> > airship design are not always intuitive.
>>>
>>> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development
>>> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and
>>> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put
>>> that stuff directly into the Java programms.
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information
>>> from:
>>> > Materials department -- composite materials models;
>>> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into
>>> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass
>>> inertia,
>>> > and elastic forces;
>>> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models
>>> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns
>>>
>>> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those
>>> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of
>>> their thesis or a project !?
>>>
>>> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named
>>> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding
>>> for
>>> > such an effort?
>>>
>>> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline
>>> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and
>>> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can
>>> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The
>>> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev
>>> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-)
>>>
>>> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions
>>> for
>>> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.
>>> >
>>> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp
>>> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as
>>> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals.
>>>
>>> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot
>>> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using
>>> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from
>>> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good
>>> start.
>>> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its
>>> high quality and the good framework it provides.
>>>
>>> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute.
>>>
>>> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer
>>> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment)
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> >
>>> > Forrest Liau
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Editor of Airshipworld
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
>>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new
>>> topic
>>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members |
>>> Calendar
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Editor of Airshipworld
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> The-List mailing list
> The-List@...
> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>

_______________________________________________
The-List mailing list
The-List@...
http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info

Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-07-03T03:43:48Z

Great Ideas Johannes,
I agree we should not build a monolithic rocket science tool. I think
having induvidual plugins in a platform that allows the plugins to
work together is the right approach. Starting small and growing by
delivering additional plugins for dedicated tasks.

Let's start structuring all this and let's get something out of the
door quickly. Everyone is invited, please put your ideas into this.
Even if you are no computer person, and are just a user, we need you
to bring forward the requirements and biggest issues that require
solving.

Regards

Andreas

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Johannes Eißing
<johannes.eissing@...> wrote:

> Hi Andreas and all,
>
> I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later.
>
> Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry.
>
> Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great.
>
> To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement.
>
> Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution.
>
> Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!).
>
> Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights.
> W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html
>
> Resistance and Propulsion
> There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading.
>
> Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of.
>
> Well, more later,
> Best, Johannes
>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...>
>> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55
>> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...>
>> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together
>
>
>> Hey Great to get a reply.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote:
>> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices
>> and
>> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference?
>> >
>> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship
>> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively.
>>
>>
>> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld
>> that we can use to start compiling stuff.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us
>> design
>> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated
>> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute.
>> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or
>> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
>> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify >
>> them.
>> >
>> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating
>> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important
>> for
>> > airship design are not always intuitive.
>>
>> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development
>> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and
>> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put
>> that stuff directly into the Java programms.
>>
>> >
>> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information
>> from:
>> > Materials department -- composite materials models;
>> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into
>> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass
>> inertia,
>> > and elastic forces;
>> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models
>> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns
>>
>> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those
>> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of
>> their thesis or a project !?
>>
>> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named
>> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding
>> for
>> > such an effort?
>>
>> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline
>> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and
>> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can
>> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The
>> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev
>> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-)
>>
>> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions
>> for
>> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.
>> >
>> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp
>> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as
>> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals.
>>
>> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot
>> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using
>> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from
>> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good
>> start.
>> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its
>> high quality and the good framework it provides.
>>
>> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute.
>>
>> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer
>> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Forrest Liau
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Editor of Airshipworld
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> __._,_.___
>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new
>> topic
>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members |
>> Calendar
>>
>>
>

Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-07-03T03:16:42Z

Hi Andreas and all,

I'd love to contribute. Of course I can't spread everything, since this would be against my work contract. But there's an idea about a tool or two, I'm thinking about for several years, but never found the time to implement. I'll send you the details later.

Keep in mind, there's not "The" airship to be designed for "The" mission. Reqiurements differ widely, and so does the design approach. I think a toolset or toolbox would be more suitable than a one-fits-all supertool. It's cruitial to keep this toolbox simple and clearly arranged, just a set of basic tools. A blacksmith's shop rather than a rocket scientists laboratry.

Exchange of information/data between these modules should be simple, I think an xml based dataset would be great.

To start with the basic tasks you first would need something to collect the requirements. It's important to define if your design is for dynamic positioning, racing or just for floating around, beeing cool (Yes even this can be a requirement). It helps avoiding extra work later on in trying to fulfil a requirement, that was never asked for, or that copes a further requirement.

Then a tool for basic volume, buoyancy distribution and CB (Centre of Buoyancy) assessment. Buoyancy is "The" feature of airships, so this is a key module. It should be based on a SAC (Sectional Area Curve): You do not need to know the shape of the ship yet, but the lift. Or you could import a given shape to compute the buoyancy distribution. See FreeShip! or ArchimedesMB for reference (the latter uses an xml file format). Ballonet design should be placed in this module too. Later, you could use this dataset for the assessmetn of added mass distribution.

Fin size, number and placement would be an extra tool. For a first conceptual design run, it should be based on statistical data, later it could compute simple aerodynamics. (see the "Fin and Rudder Wizard" in FreeSHip!).

Basic weights and CG (Centre of Gravity) assessment could be the next step. My former colleagues used to say "in LTA, WEIGHTS IS GOD!". Weight and CG of the envelope, fins, propulsion should be estimated (ah, I missed the propulsion tool!). Later, mass distribution could be be updated, e.g. with measured weights.
W&B (weights and ballance) data should be based on the "Mass Properties Exchange (MPEX) Format" http://www.dbmass.com/mpex/stdframe.html

Resistance and Propulsion
There are several methods of estimating drag or "resistance" as called in ship design. Quite an issue is the large range of Reynolds numbers, since the friction drag coefficient strongly varies with Re- number. For propeller design there are tools available, so I wouldn't load this toolset additionally. What is missing, is a simplified prop model, giving an efficiency based on disk loading.

Anyway, the most common way to design a ship or aircraft is iterating your findings, e.g. in the so called design spiral. From design stage to design stage, you would need more and more specific tools. But don't make the mistage to start a design with a too specific tool: Start simple. And do not try to optimize automatically. At least not yet, since for now, it's more important to understand the coherences than trying to optimize something you are not fully aware of.

Well, more later,
Best, Johannes

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "Andreas Grunewald" <airshipworld@...>
> Gesendet: 02.07.08 19:57:55
> An: "Airship List" <airship-list@...>
> Betreff: [rc_airship_regatta] Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

> Hey Great to get a reply.
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote:
> >> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices
> and
> >> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference?
> >
> > Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship
> > enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively.
>
>
> Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld
> that we can use to start compiling stuff.
>
> >
> >
> >> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us
> design
> >> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated
> >> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute.
> >> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or
> >> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
> >> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify >
> them.
> >
> > I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating
> > airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important
> for
> > airship design are not always intuitive.
>
> Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development
> Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and
> you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put
> that stuff directly into the Java programms.
>
> >
> > I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information
> from:
> > Materials department -- composite materials models;
> > Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into
> > account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass
> inertia,
> > and elastic forces;
> > Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models
> > Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns
>
> That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those
> deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of
> their thesis or a project !?
>
> > It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named
> > something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding
> for
> > such an effort?
>
> I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline
> our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and
> Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can
> approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The
> bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev
> environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-)
>
> >> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions
> for
> >> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.
> >
> > It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp
> > software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as
> > SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals.
>
> Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot
> of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using
> the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from
> http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good
> start.
> As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its
> high quality and the good framework it provides.
>
> So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute.
>
> Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer
> Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment)
>
> Regards
>
> Andreas
>
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Forrest Liau
> >
>
> --
> Editor of Airshipworld
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
> __._,_.___
> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new
> topic
> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members |
> Calendar
>
>

_______________________________________________
The-List mailing list
The-List@...
http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info

Re: [AirshipList] Re: Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-07-02T10:57:33Z

Hey Great to get a reply.

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM, hindemith5 <glade@...> wrote:
>> Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices and
>> patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference?
>
> Yes, making such resources available would allow LTA/HTA airship
> enthusiasts at all levels to design and experiment more productively.

Awesome that you think so too. I will set up a Wiki on Airshipworld
that we can use to start compiling stuff.

>
>
>> Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us design
>> airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated
>> development environment....if you would be willing to contribute.
>> The Development model should be collaborative and the software or
>> resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
>> opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify >them.
>
> I really like the idea of an open source software for simulating
> airships, since effects such as "apparent mass" that are important for
> airship design are not always intuitive.

Cool So let's do it. I believe we can create something. As Development
Language I suggest Java, just because it's platform independendt and
you can even develop in Groovy, Ruby, Python, Scala, Prolog and put
that stuff directly into the Java programms.

>
> I am a graduate student at MIT, and could possily find information from:
> Materials department -- composite materials models;
> Ocean Engineering department -- hydrodynamic models taking into
> account fluid drag and inertia forces, buoyancy, weight, mass inertia,
> and elastic forces;
> Aerospace department -- aerodynamic lift models
> Earth & atmostpheric science department -- weather patterns

That would be awesome, it would be cool if we could connect to those
deparments, and maybe interest students to contribute maybe as part of
their thesis or a project !?

> It may even be worth starting a global club around this topic, named
> something like OpenAirWare. Any ideas about how to obtain funding for
> such an effort?

I don't have any direct sources and I think we first have to outline
our plan and start producing something, then get Universities and
Companies involved who can get a benefit from the Project. Then we can
approach Google or other large Organisations for Funding. The
bootstrap has to be done on a shoestring budget. But webspace and dev
environment are free so it costs only time and idealism right now ;-)

>> Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions for
>> designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.
>
> It may be worthwhile to try to leverage the free Google SketchUp
> software for 3D design and visualization, as programs such as
> SolidWorks are very expensive for non-professionals.

Yes I have thought about Google SketchUp and there is probably a lot
of other stuff that we can leverage. I am even thinking about using
the Havok Physics Engine which is available for free from
http://www.havok.com/content/view/17/30/ this could give us a good
start.
As Platform I would suggest the Eclipse Rich Client Platform for its
high quality and the good framework it provides.

So the Idea is there who is interested to contribute.

Let everyone know. Let's build our own Airship CAD&IDE. (Computer
Aided Design&Integrated Development Environment)

Regards

Andreas

>
> Best,
>
> Forrest Liau
>
> __._,_.___
> Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
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> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
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Designing Airships - bringing our collective knowledge together

2008-07-02T05:11:05Z

Hello,
Many of us have started to collect information about designing
Airships, some are even professionally designing them. Some hobbyist
are building their own remote controlled airships, and some people are
interested and just starting out gathering knowledge. Some might
design airship by calculating on a sheet of paper or maybe excel, some
might use specific tools. I believe that there are many many bits and
pieces of knowledge spread around the community. The Building Industry
has it's tools and patterns on how to build cities, houses and other
thing. The Computer Industry has patterns on how do structure and
build software and also uses many different tools to make their work
easier and simpler. Even the Conventional Aerospace industry I would
assume has a large portfolio of patterns, tools and reference material
to refer to.
The Airshipindustry might also have it but I don't believe it is as
sophisticated and readily available. From personal experience I have
to say it's rather hard to find the appropriate information or even
the pointers to this information. To my information there is also no
integrated development environment to develop an airship, that allows
modelling, calculations and simulations in one software product. So my
questions are:

Do you think we need a resource that collects the best practices and
patterns probably pointing to specific books for further reference?

Do we need an Airship Development Software tool that helps us design
airships in a computer aided design approach to have an integrated
development environment. The question is not who will build it but who
can see themself using it. And who would be willing to give the input
in technical and business expertise regarding mathematical formulars,
requirements aso.

I would love to start such a project and spearhead the Software
Development since I am a Computer Scientist but i would like to know
if you see a need for it and if you would be willing to contribute.
The Development model should be collaborative and the software or the
resources and artifacts produced should be available for free as
opensource so that everyone can use them enhance them and modify them.
Let me know what you think I could envision specialized versions for
designing remote controlled airships and passenger airships.

Regards

Andreas G
--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
The-List mailing list
The-List@...
http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info

Re: Colorado Airshiplist traffic ? Anyone ?

2008-06-25T07:31:14Z

No.

.

> This Message came to me though the-list@....
> Did you also get it through the Colorado Airship-list ??
>
> Regards
>
> Andreas
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, <brunians@...> wrote:
>> Been getting it fine.
>>
>> As near as I can tell.....
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I have had problems with the Colorado Airship-List again.Haven't
>>> received anything since the 23rd and have not been able to respond to
>>> it for quite some time now, Trying to send a message to listproc did
>>> not yield any replies from the Server. Anyone else having the same
>>> issues ? Or is something wrong on my side.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> --
>>> Editor of Airshipworld
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
>>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The-List mailing list
>>> The-List@...
>>> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The-List mailing list
>> The-List@...
>> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Editor of Airshipworld
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
>

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Re: Colorado Airshiplist traffic ? Anyone ?

2008-06-25T06:14:38Z

This Message came to me though the-list@....
Did you also get it through the Colorado Airship-list ??

Regards

Andreas

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, <brunians@...> wrote:

> Been getting it fine.
>
> As near as I can tell.....
>
>
> .
>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I have had problems with the Colorado Airship-List again.Haven't
>> received anything since the 23rd and have not been able to respond to
>> it for quite some time now, Trying to send a message to listproc did
>> not yield any replies from the Server. Anyone else having the same
>> issues ? Or is something wrong on my side.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> --
>> Editor of Airshipworld
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
>> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The-List mailing list
>> The-List@...
>> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>

Re: Colorado Airshiplist traffic ? Anyone ?

2008-06-25T04:47:54Z

Been getting it fine.

As near as I can tell.....

.

> Hi everyone,
> I have had problems with the Colorado Airship-List again.Haven't
> received anything since the 23rd and have not been able to respond to
> it for quite some time now, Trying to send a message to listproc did
> not yield any replies from the Server. Anyone else having the same
> issues ? Or is something wrong on my side.
>
> Regards
>
> Andreas
>
> --
> Editor of Airshipworld
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
> http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> The-List mailing list
> The-List@...
> http://airshipworld.info/mailman/listinfo/the-list_airshipworld.info
>

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The-List mailing list
The-List@...
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Colorado Airshiplist traffic ? Anyone ?

2008-06-25T00:49:25Z

Hi everyone,
I have had problems with the Colorado Airship-List again.Haven't
received anything since the 23rd and have not been able to respond to
it for quite some time now, Trying to send a message to listproc did
not yield any replies from the Server. Anyone else having the same
issues ? Or is something wrong on my side.

Regards

Andreas

--
Editor of Airshipworld
--------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Airshipworld Blog at
http://airshipworld.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [AirshipList] Guardian Article about airships coming up tomorrow - already online

2008-06-09T12:40:24Z

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:40 PM, r.recks@... <r.recks@...> wrote:

WHAT industry????

Sorry have you been under a rock somewhere?

Duncan Rice

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