Tb3 Development Direction (For comment)

[JoeS-3]

The purpose of this post is to gather comments on the general direction of TB3 development from some folks who might
not have tried any of the alpha or nightly builds. I would describe the target audience as a group of users interested in
Multimedia in mail and Newsgroups. I choose this venue to avoid bugspam and yet gather opinions.

My personal use of html compose is mainly in Newsgroups, where such posts are a common interest.
Or a Holiday e-card to those that appreciate same.

It is *not* meant as a forum for the appropriateness of html use in Mailnews, so no flames please.
It *is* meant to show user interest for multimedia style composition.

         Here are my current concerns:


    1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
    "Good" html.

    Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
    difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.

    For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.

    I'll not list any bugs here, anybody that uses html compose to any
    extent is aware of the problems in editing inline styles
    (advanced edit) and in using insert html as an editing tool. It's
    the general lack of development for the html user that I
    want to call attention to here.

    2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no pref to turn on)

    This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
    with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely.
    In addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)

    Javascript is an important tool for enhanced html composition, and should be made available by pref.


I would be the first to admit that folks that use these features are in the minority, and suggest that the reason
for this fact is that they have been pretty much trivialized and regarded as edge cases in the user base.

This post is in plaintext in deference to the preferences of this group and the mailing list users.

Please observe proper decorum and etiquette in responding to this post, as the subject may be considered controversial.
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[Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez]

JoeS escribió:

>         Here are my current concerns:
>
>
>    1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
>    "Good" html.
>
>    Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>    difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>
>    For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.

Just go to Format -> Paragraph -> Paragraph to have your regular text
wrapped in a <p> element, or choose "Paragraph" from the drow-down box
in composition toolbar. That should work (it does for me).

Enabling JavaScript for e-mail looks like a dangerous thing to me.
Even if Thunderbird allow to turn in on/off, the general consensus
should be to have it disabled, so you won't gain a lot, because most
recipients won't see the e-mail like you intended to. Still, providing
a way to turn it on (defaulting to off) would be interesting.

Ricardo.

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[Jay Garcia]

On 05.10.2008 00:11, JoeS wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> The purpose of this post is to gather comments on the general direction of TB3 development from some folks who might
> not have tried any of the alpha or nightly builds. I would describe the target audience as a group of users interested in
> Multimedia in mail and Newsgroups. I choose this venue to avoid bugspam and yet gather opinions.
>
> My personal use of html compose is mainly in Newsgroups, where such posts are a common interest.
> Or a Holiday e-card to those that appreciate same.
>
> It is *not* meant as a forum for the appropriateness of html use in Mailnews, so no flames please.
> It *is* meant to show user interest for multimedia style composition.
>
>          Here are my current concerns:
>
>
>     1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
>     "Good" html.
>
>     Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>     difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>
>     For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.
>
>     I'll not list any bugs here, anybody that uses html compose to any
>     extent is aware of the problems in editing inline styles
>     (advanced edit) and in using insert html as an editing tool. It's
>     the general lack of development for the html user that I
>     want to call attention to here.
>
>     2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no pref to turn on)
>
>     This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
>     with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely.
>     In addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)
>
>     Javascript is an important tool for enhanced html composition, and should be made available by pref.
>
>
> I would be the first to admit that folks that use these features are in the minority, and suggest that the reason
> for this fact is that they have been pretty much trivialized and regarded as edge cases in the user base.
>
> This post is in plaintext in deference to the preferences of this group and the mailing list users.
>
> Please observe proper decorum and etiquette in responding to this post, as the subject may be considered controversial.

Best I can comment by example. When my kids were away at college, we
emailed back and forth with messages formatted in HTML. It was a nice
way to convey our thoughts rather than just in plain b/w text. Now that
my kids are grown, we still message back and forth with the grand kids,
etc. I am afraid that if this is taken away from us, not only our
households will move on, so will a lot of others world-wide. It is my
opinion that this will kill Thunderbird, a really great application.
Taking away functionality that has existed for over a decade is NOT in
the best interest of development, but rather enriching that function is
the more desirable avenue of development.

--
Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Flock - Firefox - Thunderbird - Seamonkey Support
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[Joshua Cranmer-2]

JoeS wrote:
> 1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
> "Good" html.
>
> Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
> difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.

I believe the actual HTML editor is external to mailnews libraries in
the same way that LDAP is external.

> 2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk
> builds.(no pref to turn on)
>
> This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
> with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely. In
> addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely
> affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)

The temporary disabling was just that--temporary. With beta 1 (or so we
thought) coming out soon, and the news that JS security checks might be
bypassed, the decision was made to just pull JS and be more secure than
not, since the correct security code could not have been finished in
time for the release.
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[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 05.10.2008 00:11, JoeS wrote:
>
>  --- Original Message ---
>
>> The purpose of this post is to gather comments on the general direction of TB3 development from some folks who might
>> not have tried any of the alpha or nightly builds. I would describe the target audience as a group of users interested in
>> Multimedia in mail and Newsgroups. I choose this venue to avoid bugspam and yet gather opinions.
>>
>> My personal use of html compose is mainly in Newsgroups, where such posts are a common interest.
>> Or a Holiday e-card to those that appreciate same.
>>
>> It is *not* meant as a forum for the appropriateness of html use in Mailnews, so no flames please.
>> It *is* meant to show user interest for multimedia style composition.
>>
>>          Here are my current concerns:
>>
>>
>>     1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
>>     "Good" html.
>>
>>     Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>>     difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>>
>>     For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.
>>
>>     I'll not list any bugs here, anybody that uses html compose to any
>>     extent is aware of the problems in editing inline styles
>>     (advanced edit) and in using insert html as an editing tool. It's
>>     the general lack of development for the html user that I
>>     want to call attention to here.
>>
>>     2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no pref to turn on)
>>
>>     This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
>>     with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely.
>>     In addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)
>>
>>     Javascript is an important tool for enhanced html composition, and should be made available by pref.
>>
>>
>> I would be the first to admit that folks that use these features are in the minority, and suggest that the reason
>> for this fact is that they have been pretty much trivialized and regarded as edge cases in the user base.
>>
>> This post is in plaintext in deference to the preferences of this group and the mailing list users.
>>
>> Please observe proper decorum and etiquette in responding to this post, as the subject may be considered controversial.
>
> Best I can comment by example. When my kids were away at college, we
> emailed back and forth with messages formatted in HTML. It was a nice
> way to convey our thoughts rather than just in plain b/w text. Now that
> my kids are grown, we still message back and forth with the grand kids,
> etc. I am afraid that if this is taken away from us, not only our
> households will move on, so will a lot of others world-wide. It is my
> opinion that this will kill Thunderbird, a really great application.
> Taking away functionality that has existed for over a decade is NOT in
> the best interest of development, but rather enriching that function is
> the more desirable avenue of development.
>

I can tell the developers that I as a User and supporter, person that
files bug reports, and user of SeaMonkey, FireFox, and Thunderbird if
the ability to use Javascript and or html is disabled temporarily, or
permanently; I will make an effort to find another mail & newsreader; or
continue to use older versions that that allows JS, and html and cease
any and all use mozilla Products. I will stay with TB 2 and stay with
Seamonkey 1.

Its not for the developers to say what should or should not be in TB or
other Mozilla products but the users.

The use of Mozilla products have gone down and and will fall off the
charts if the JS is permanently disabled.

Do you realize that if JS is removed. I will no longer be able to use my
ISP's Web Mail. Also do you know That acrobat allows and actually has a
JS engine built in so that PDF can be interactive. some and maybe all
PDF may no longer be seen on or even called up through TB or other
Mozilla products with JS turned off.

What the developers are not realizing is That many items used daily on
the internet, will be permanently disabled if JS is removed.

Javascript has become such an integral part of the internet and Mail and
news, that it has become indispensable.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET                         mailto:pjones@...
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!                   http://www.vpea.org
                              http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
G4-500 Mac 1.5 GB RAM OSX.3.9  G4-1.67 GB PowerBook 17" 2GB RAM OSX.4.11
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Michael-369]

JoeS replied On 10/5/2008 12:11 AM

> The purpose of this post is to gather comments on the general direction of TB3 development from some folks who might
> not have tried any of the alpha or nightly builds. I would describe the target audience as a group of users interested in
> Multimedia in mail and Newsgroups. I choose this venue to avoid bugspam and yet gather opinions.
>
> My personal use of html compose is mainly in Newsgroups, where such posts are a common interest.
> Or a Holiday e-card to those that appreciate same.
>
> It is *not* meant as a forum for the appropriateness of html use in Mailnews, so no flames please.
> It *is* meant to show user interest for multimedia style composition.
>
>          Here are my current concerns:
>
>
>     1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
>     "Good" html.
>
>     Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>     difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>
>     For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.
>
>     I'll not list any bugs here, anybody that uses html compose to any
>     extent is aware of the problems in editing inline styles
>     (advanced edit) and in using insert html as an editing tool. It's
>     the general lack of development for the html user that I
>     want to call attention to here.
>
>     2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no pref to turn on)
>
>     This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
>     with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely.
>     In addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)
>
>     Javascript is an important tool for enhanced html composition, and should be made available by pref.
>
>
> I would be the first to admit that folks that use these features are in the minority, and suggest that the reason
> for this fact is that they have been pretty much trivialized and regarded as edge cases in the user base.
>
> This post is in plaintext in deference to the preferences of this group and the mailing list users.
>
> Please observe proper decorum and etiquette in responding to this post, as the subject may be considered controversial.

Looking beyond the narrow view port of the developer community we see a
real need and requirement for Rich Text (HTML) and scripting in
mail/news.  Those of us who provide support for our own programs and
customers rely upon the ability to enhance our support efforts with Rich
Text and working examples of the support issue.

If I am trying to explain how to use CSS on a web page to position an
element and enhance the text within that element in place of using
tables and HTML tags, it is much easier to get the point across with
both the CSS code and a working example.

This issue goes much farther than the simple example described above, it
also must cover all other forms of scripting available throughout the
Web Community.  The ability to quickly provide support and examples in
e-mail is an economic and productivity brick wall, without this
invaluable tool people who provide all levels of support will be
required to find mail clients that will provide this much needed tool.

A solution to your dilemma would be to create a "Scripting Button" on
the tool bar defaulted to "Text Only", this would only render plain
ascii text.  When the button is ticked to "HTML Scripting" then all the
scripting options available to web authors would be rendered and
composed in the message body.

Within the above suggestion another option can be included as a tool bar
pop up when the mail client is in Text Only mode and the incoming
message is written with HTML and/or scripting; "The current message
contains HTML formatting, or Scripting, click the HTML button to render
in HTML".  You could also include a security warning for a message from
an unknown source.  Other e-mail clients do this for their users
everyday when the scripting option has been defaulted to OFF.  Outlook
is one I personally know about at my work site.

The bottom line in development for security issues is that the end user
is the person responsible for maintaining his/her mail security, the
development team's responsibility is to provide the tools to enhance
security without killing the tools we need for user support.

Respectfully,

Michael Gordon


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[JoeS-3]

On 10/5/2008 10:03 AM, Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> JoeS wrote:
>> 1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of "Good"
>> html.
>>
>> Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>> difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>
> I believe the actual HTML editor is external to mailnews libraries in
> the same way that LDAP is external.
>
>> 2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no
>> pref to turn on)
>>
>> This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
>> with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely. In
>> addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely
>> affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)
>
> The temporary disabling was just that--temporary. With beta 1 (or so we
> thought) coming out soon, and the news that JS security checks might be
> bypassed, the decision was made to just pull JS and be more secure than
> not, since the correct security code could not have been finished in
> time for the release.

Given that more folks are likely to try a release b1 or a3 over a nightly,
just more reason for long-time users of JS to be "surprised"
Doubt if many would dig into the relnotes to see why.

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[Siddharth Agarwal-2]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T
<pjones1@...> wrote:
> Do you realize that if JS is removed. I will no longer be able to use my
> ISP's Web Mail.

Sorry, this doesn't make sense. Why will you no longer be able to use
your ISP's webmail, and what does webmail have to do with Thunderbird?

> Also do you know That acrobat allows and actually has a
> JS engine built in so that PDF can be interactive. some and maybe all
> PDF may no longer be seen on or even called up through TB or other
> Mozilla products with JS turned off.

Why? I'd presume that a PDF from Thunderbird opens in an external
application. How will disabling JS impact that?

>
> Javascript has become such an integral part of the internet and Mail and
> news, that it has become indispensable.

I think JS is actually an edge case for mail/news.

Siddharth
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[Moz Champion (Dan)]

Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:

> JoeS escribió:
>>         Here are my current concerns:
>>
>>
>>    1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
>>    "Good" html.
>>
>>    Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>>    difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>>
>>    For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.
>
>
> Just go to Format -> Paragraph -> Paragraph to have your regular text
> wrapped in a <p> element, or choose "Paragraph" from the drow-down box
> in composition toolbar. That should work (it does for me).
>
> Enabling JavaScript for e-mail looks like a dangerous thing to me.
> Even if Thunderbird allow to turn in on/off, the general consensus
> should be to have it disabled, so you won't gain a lot, because most
> recipients won't see the e-mail like you intended to. Still, providing
> a way to turn it on (defaulting to off) would be interesting.
>
> Ricardo.
>

I fail to understand why javascript would be so dangerous in
Thunderbird, after all it is available on Firefox. I have yet to see any
javascript exploit on the web, and I have been running javascript since
1997. I also visit each and every spam page I come across (over 12,000
at last count) AND all the pages that cause problems for others.  Yet in
all that time and exposure, I have NOT seen one javascript exploit that
causes any damage or corruption.
(aside from some proof of concept ones)

And we are speaking of a mail-news program here, not a browser in any
case. Do you propose they disable javascript in Firefox as well - it is
much more 'exposed' to maliciousness than Thunderbird would be.

As Joe says, Javascript capabilities ARE quite valuable and important in
the creation and display of multimedia content in mail-news. They should
be 'available' for users who wish to use such.

Disabling Javascript in Thunderbird because it MIGHT be a threat is in
my opinion tantamount to saying you might as well disable Email because
you MIGHT get a virus!

There are over 100,000 viruses out there, that can be delivered via
email - in comparison to a handful of 'proof of concept' javascript
exploits - none of which as far as I can tell would have affected
Thunderbird in any case.  Yet developers are disabling js and not email?

If js is so dangerous, then why hasn't it been disabled on Firefox,
SeaMonkey, IE, Opera, Safari, or Camino? They are constantly exposed to
it day in and day out, but none of those browsers come with js even
defaulted to off, let alone disabled!

SeaMonkey for example, as a 'all in one' browser/email/news package
comes with javascript defaulted 'on' (enabled). Yet developers are
disabling it in Thunderbird because it MIGHT be dangerous? Providing a
switch for it (ala Firefox, SeaMonkey and others) so users CAN disable
if they wish might be acceptable, but disabling it so that no one can
use it regardless?
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[Moz Champion (Dan)]

Joshua Cranmer wrote:

> JoeS wrote:
>> 1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of "Good"
>> html.
>>
>> Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>> difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>
> I believe the actual HTML editor is external to mailnews libraries in
> the same way that LDAP is external.
>
>> 2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no
>> pref to turn on)
>>
>> This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
>> with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely. In
>> addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely
>> affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)
>
> The temporary disabling was just that--temporary. With beta 1 (or so we
> thought) coming out soon, and the news that JS security checks might be
> bypassed, the decision was made to just pull JS and be more secure than
> not, since the correct security code could not have been finished in
> time for the release.

The 'problem' then becomes, what is the impetus to write the correct
security code after the release comes out?  Developers could well
'assume' that since very few 'complained' about the lack of javascript
they wouldn't 'bother' with writing the coding needed.

And once you 'temporarily' disable such an integral part of a mail news
program (to some anyways) what is going to prevent an exodus of those
interesting in HTML/JS in email news?  They will move on to other
programs, and even when you do re-enalble js it will be ignored.

For those who are 'into' HTML in mail-news (and JS is an important part
of such) most are NOT computer 'geeks' or developers. They are for the
most part, users who want to creat multimedia content in email or news.
If a program doesn't work, they will go to others, and once they become
proficient in its use, drawing them back is a lost cause.

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[Siddharth Agarwal-2]

(sorry, meant to send this to the newsgroup -- stupid gmail)

> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Moz Champion (Dan)
> <moz.champion@...> wrote:
>> There are over 100,000 viruses out there, that can be delivered via
>> email - in comparison to a handful of 'proof of concept' javascript
>> exploits - none of which as far as I can tell would have affected
>> Thunderbird in any case.  Yet developers are disabling js and not email?

The difference is that most email exploits (at least in recent days;
not talking about c. 2000 Microsoft clients) require user
intervention, which is something that cannot be ultimately protected
against, while most JS exploits in my understanding do not.

Siddharth
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[Siddharth Agarwal-2]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Moz Champion (Dan)
<moz.champion@...> wrote:
>
> For those who are 'into' HTML in mail-news (and JS is an important part
> of such) most are NOT computer 'geeks' or developers. They are for the
> most part, users who want to creat multimedia content in email or news.
> If a program doesn't work, they will go to others, and once they become
> proficient in its use, drawing them back is a lost cause.

I'm curious to know exactly what you can do in a mail client with JS
that you cannot do with a link to a page holding the same content.

(my opinion is that JS is a completely frivolous part of mail. Of
course it might be biased by the fact that I've never ever received a
legitimate mail with JS in it)
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[Moz Champion (Dan)]

Siddharth Agarwal wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Moz Champion (Dan)
> <moz.champion@...> wrote:
>> For those who are 'into' HTML in mail-news (and JS is an important part
>> of such) most are NOT computer 'geeks' or developers. They are for the
>> most part, users who want to creat multimedia content in email or news.
>> If a program doesn't work, they will go to others, and once they become
>> proficient in its use, drawing them back is a lost cause.
>
> I'm curious to know exactly what you can do in a mail client with JS
> that you cannot do with a link to a page holding the same content.
>
> (my opinion is that JS is a completely frivolous part of mail. Of
> course it might be biased by the fact that I've never ever received a
> legitimate mail with JS in it)

Then why do you want it turnned OFF then?

You have most definately received lots of email that have attachments,
but you are not advocating disabling that capability are you? Any of
those attachments could have been a virus.

Yet, even if there WAS a javascript exploit that could be used in mail
WITHOUT user indulgence - heck, you wouldn't get it anyway!

To you it is 'frivilous' - to other who USE the capabilities it is not.
I send out 4 HTML news posts every day. Most don't use JS, but there are
some that have.
You can view these 'posts' on
alt.binaries.joker
or, as an alternative, you can have me send them to you direct in email
(address is on the posts)
as well as other HTML posts. And to see the full fledged capabilties of
a js enabled mail-news program I invite you to visit
snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.test.multimedia

NB: Caution - a 100 posts there can be the size of 1000 posts in a plain
text group - when people get creative they do it big.

Why don't I send out those posts as simply 'links' becaue they are NOT
extant web pages! I create them (from sources on the web) as I go along.
I grab an image here, some text there (or write my own), from sources
that are free for such use.

No one is asking you to accept js in email and news, you can turn it off
if you want. All we are asking is that you do not take away the
capability of using it from those that do.
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[JoeS-3]

On 10/5/2008 11:47 AM, Siddharth Agarwal wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Moz Champion (Dan)
> <moz.champion@...>  wrote:
>> For those who are 'into' HTML in mail-news (and JS is an important part
>> of such) most are NOT computer 'geeks' or developers. They are for the
>> most part, users who want to creat multimedia content in email or news.
>> If a program doesn't work, they will go to others, and once they become
>> proficient in its use, drawing them back is a lost cause.
>
> I'm curious to know exactly what you can do in a mail client with JS
> that you cannot do with a link to a page holding the same content.
>
> (my opinion is that JS is a completely frivolous part of mail. Of
> course it might be biased by the fact that I've never ever received a
> legitimate mail with JS in it)

Nobody is suggesting that JS should be sent to those not interested.
But lets say I'm a professional photographer that wants to send thumbnails that expand with JS
Some folks would like that. OOps, better start using OE if I want to view those proofs.
Just an example, Newsgroup usage is the real need here. Newsgroups are subscribed to by people
with a common interest, one of which is enhancing messages with whatever tools are available.
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[squaredancer]

On 05.10.2008 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  JoeS to
generate the following:? :

> The purpose of this post is to gather comments on the general direction of TB3 development from some folks who might
> not have tried any of the alpha or nightly builds. I would describe the target audience as a group of users interested in
> Multimedia in mail and Newsgroups. I choose this venue to avoid bugspam and yet gather opinions.
>
> My personal use of html compose is mainly in Newsgroups, where such posts are a common interest.
> Or a Holiday e-card to those that appreciate same.
>
> It is *not* meant as a forum for the appropriateness of html use in Mailnews, so no flames please.
> It *is* meant to show user interest for multimedia style composition.
>
>          Here are my current concerns:
>
>
>     1) Little or nothing has been done to aid in the composition of
>     "Good" html.
>
>     Indeed, given the tools in the composition window, it is quite
>     difficult to produce a "well formed" html message.
>
>     For instance, there is no way to insert <p> tags easily.
>
>     I'll not list any bugs here, anybody that uses html compose to any
>     extent is aware of the problems in editing inline styles
>     (advanced edit) and in using insert html as an editing tool. It's
>     the general lack of development for the html user that I
>     want to call attention to here.
>
>     2) Currently, Javascript is "temporarily" disabled in trunk builds.(no pref to turn on)
>
>     This obviously removes the composers ability to enhance compositions
>     with JS effects, but also disables the marquee tag completely.
>     In addition, RSS feeds that require JS to pull content are severely affected. (YouTube feeds are one example)
>
>     Javascript is an important tool for enhanced html composition, and should be made available by pref.
>
>
> I would be the first to admit that folks that use these features are in the minority, and suggest that the reason
> for this fact is that they have been pretty much trivialized and regarded as edge cases in the user base.
>
> This post is in plaintext in deference to the preferences of this group and the mailing list users.
>
> Please observe proper decorum and etiquette in responding to this post, as the subject may be considered controversial.
>  

surely, the objective of "development" is to improve/enhance a program?  
"Killing" JS - and neglecting HTML-content to die a lonely death - can
by no means be called "development" in the sense of advancement?

If - and when - it is proven that either element is a *severe* security
risk, then it is surely up to the programmers to code their product in
such a manner as to prevent those security breaks. Taking the options
out of the program completely, is the lazy mans' way out and only admits
to being defeated by "The Bad Men".

Geko has the capabilities to exploit CSS, JS and HTML in eMail - let the
devs develop, enhance and advertize Thunderbird as an application that
is better than Bill Gate's product.
Cropping the capabilities to use those features will reduce TB to a
"text only" product - well, we don't need another Newsreader, thankyou
very much!

At least *some* users are capable of the use of CSS, JS and HTML - and
do use them in eMail ("no comment" about Newsgroups) and the choice to
use, or not to use MUST be left to the User's own decision.
Do not get into the habit of thinking the User is an ignorant - for
sure, some may be but the majority is able to think (and decide) for itself!

reg


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