Tab in Java

[dotancohen]

My university's math department put up terrible little inaccesable
Java applets for homework. In particular, the tab key does not move
between text input fields. Is this a known issue with Java, or does
Java use some key combination other than tab to move between fields? I
am a heavy keyboard user as I have difficulties manipulating the
mouse. Although the university does recognize my handicap regarding
written assignments, there is 'nothing to be done' regarding their
inaccessible Java applet other than what I can do client side.

I tried to save an applet to post in a place where the list members
can try it, but unsuccessfully. The applet phones home when started
up, so there is no way to post it in a public manner. If some list
members want to email me off-list for my username/password, I can
provide that. Thanks.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Ron Johnson]

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On 05/17/08 13:51, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> My university's math department put up terrible little inaccesable
> Java applets for homework. In particular, the tab key does not move
> between text input fields. Is this a known issue with Java,

I see the same issue with our time card app.

>                                                              or does
> Java use some key combination other than tab to move between fields? I
> am a heavy keyboard user as I have difficulties manipulating the
> mouse. Although the university does recognize my handicap regarding
> written assignments, there is 'nothing to be done' regarding their
> inaccessible Java applet other than what I can do client side.

Somewhere in your Uni is a Dean who's job it is to see that no one's
rights are violated.  If that Dean refuses to help, there are rights
activists galore, and, finally, letters to the editor of the school
newspaper.  No "progressive" Uni likes to see itself doing anything
but bending over bass-ackwards for minorities.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

ESPN makes baseball players better.
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[dotancohen]

2008/5/17 Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@...>:
> Somewhere in your Uni is a Dean who's job it is to see that no one's
> rights are violated.  If that Dean refuses to help, there are rights
> activists galore, and, finally, letters to the editor of the school
> newspaper.  No "progressive" Uni likes to see itself doing anything
> but bending over bass-ackwards for minorities.

Not where I live. I consider myself lucky to be studying, and I'm not
going to rock any boats. Middle Eastern mentality is to be thankful of
what you have, not to demand your 'rights'.

Regardless of the mentality of my university, is there a client-side
fix for this technical problem?

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Wesley J. Landaker]

On Saturday 17 May 2008 13:16:06 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Regardless of the mentality of my university, is there a client-side
> fix for this technical problem?

Here is an all else fails method: use the Java applet under Windows XP in a
virtual machine, such as VirtualBox.

This is horrible in a software freedom (and annoying hassle) perspective,
but will almost certainly get the job done.

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[John Hasler]

Wesley J. Landaker writes:
> Here is an all else fails method: use the Java applet under Windows XP in
> a virtual machine, such as VirtualBox.

> This is horrible in a software freedom (and annoying hassle) perspective,
> but will almost certainly get the job done.

It would also require that he acquire a copy of Microsoft Windows XP.
--
John Hasler


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[dotancohen]

2008/5/17 Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@...>:

> On Saturday 17 May 2008 13:16:06 Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> Regardless of the mentality of my university, is there a client-side
>> fix for this technical problem?
>
> Here is an all else fails method: use the Java applet under Windows XP in a
> virtual machine, such as VirtualBox.
>
> This is horrible in a software freedom (and annoying hassle) perspective,
> but will almost certainly get the job done.
>

Even in Windows there is no ability to tab between the text fields in
this particular Java applet. Or in all Java applets, for all I know.
Actually, that is my question. Does Java use a different method of
keyboarding between fields?

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Wesley J. Landaker]

On Saturday 17 May 2008 14:56:23 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Even in Windows there is no ability to tab between the text fields in
> this particular Java applet. Or in all Java applets, for all I know.
> Actually, that is my question. Does Java use a different method of
> keyboarding between fields?

Well, that's quite obnoxious! I haven't had the displeasure of using any
Java applets in quite a long time. It could be just a limitation of the GUI
toolkit (e.g. AWT) or the program itself -- if it doesn't support keyboard
tabbing, then there most likely isn't much hope for fixing it.

One simple minded suggestion: try CTRL-I. That emits a tab character in many
contexts. But given the above, it probably won't work either.

Anyway, good luck!

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Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@...> <xmpp:wjl@...>
OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094  0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2

[dotancohen]

2008/5/18 Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@...>:

> On Saturday 17 May 2008 14:56:23 Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> Even in Windows there is no ability to tab between the text fields in
>> this particular Java applet. Or in all Java applets, for all I know.
>> Actually, that is my question. Does Java use a different method of
>> keyboarding between fields?
>
> Well, that's quite obnoxious! I haven't had the displeasure of using any
> Java applets in quite a long time. It could be just a limitation of the GUI
> toolkit (e.g. AWT) or the program itself -- if it doesn't support keyboard
> tabbing, then there most likely isn't much hope for fixing it.
>
> One simple minded suggestion: try CTRL-I. That emits a tab character in many
> contexts. But given the above, it probably won't work either.

Thanks. I tried Ctrl-l, but it did not work. Neither did any other
Ctrl-char for that matter. But good thinking nonetheless.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Ron Johnson]

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On 05/17/08 16:31, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/5/18 Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@...>:
[snip]
>>
>> One simple minded suggestion: try CTRL-I. That emits a tab character in many
>> contexts. But given the above, it probably won't work either.
>
> Thanks. I tried Ctrl-l, but it did not work. Neither did any other
> Ctrl-char for that matter. But good thinking nonetheless.

That's ^L.  Try ^I.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

ESPN makes baseball players better.
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[dotancohen]

2008/5/18 Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@...>:
>>> One simple minded suggestion: try CTRL-I. That emits a tab character in many
>>> contexts. But given the above, it probably won't work either.
>>
>> Thanks. I tried Ctrl-l, but it did not work. Neither did any other
>> Ctrl-char for that matter. But good thinking nonetheless.
>
> That's ^L.  Try ^I.
>

I sense a bash.org moment coming on...

I did try with the lowercase version of the key between "k" and ";".
But one can never be too sure. Just in case there are those who don't
know, in most fonts the uppercase eye glyph is one pixel shorter than
the lowercase el glyph, which is the maximum possible height:
Il (eye el)

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Ron Johnson]

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On 05/17/08 17:40, Dotan Cohen wrote:

> 2008/5/18 Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@...>:
>>>> One simple minded suggestion: try CTRL-I. That emits a tab character in many
>>>> contexts. But given the above, it probably won't work either.
>>> Thanks. I tried Ctrl-l, but it did not work. Neither did any other
>>> Ctrl-char for that matter. But good thinking nonetheless.
>> That's ^L.  Try ^I.
>>
>
> I sense a bash.org moment coming on...
>
> I did try with the lowercase version of the key between "k" and ";".
> But one can never be too sure. Just in case there are those who don't
> know, in most fonts the uppercase eye glyph is one pixel shorter than
> the lowercase el glyph, which is the maximum possible height:
> Il (eye el)

I'd have thought that the I-beam shape of chr(73) would have given
away which character that OP meant.

But then, this is why html mail is evil, and Google Is Evil for
promoting it.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

ESPN makes baseball players better.
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[Adam Hardy (debian)]

Ron Johnson on 18/05/08 00:05, wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 05/17/08 17:40, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> 2008/5/18 Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@...>:
>>>>> One simple minded suggestion: try CTRL-I. That emits a tab character in many
>>>>> contexts. But given the above, it probably won't work either.
>>>> Thanks. I tried Ctrl-l, but it did not work. Neither did any other
>>>> Ctrl-char for that matter. But good thinking nonetheless.
>>> That's ^L.  Try ^I.
>>>
>> I sense a bash.org moment coming on...
>>
>> I did try with the lowercase version of the key between "k" and ";".
>> But one can never be too sure. Just in case there are those who don't
>> know, in most fonts the uppercase eye glyph is one pixel shorter than
>> the lowercase el glyph, which is the maximum possible height:
>> Il (eye el)
>
> I'd have thought that the I-beam shape of chr(73) would have given
> away which character that OP meant.
>
> But then, this is why html mail is evil, and Google Is Evil for
> promoting it.

Back to tabbing in Java, I think you should be able to do something about it if
you are the Java applet programmer, like another poster said. Theoretically it
might be impossible but that's unlikely. But as for client-side options, I don't
think Java offers anything.

Surely though there is some software that allows you to control the mouse via
the keyboard?


regards
Adam


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[dotancohen]

2008/5/18 Adam Hardy <adam.ant@...>:
> Back to tabbing in Java, I think you should be able to do something about it
> if you are the Java applet programmer, like another poster said.
> Theoretically it might be impossible but that's unlikely. But as for
> client-side options, I don't think Java offers anything.

Thanks. I figured that there was no client-side solution, but I
figured I'd ask anyway.

> Surely though there is some software that allows you to control the mouse
> via the keyboard?
>

I can control the mouse with my hand, it is simply uncomfortable. It
does not get painful unless I move the mouse all day, which I don't
need to do to complete the assignments.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[dotancohen]

There is now an English-language demo of the Java applet, but it takes
some work to get to. First, go to this URL:
http://mathnet.math.technion.ac.il/
Then click on the text "English demo of MathNet". To log in use these
credentials:
Enter "demo" in the top input box.
Enter "d" in the bottom input box.
Press the button below (which is marked "הכנס").
Now, there will be a vertical menu on the left. Choose the second
item, which is marked "שיעורי הכנה". The English-language tutorial is
named "The Riemann Integral". Clicking this will open the Java
tutorial. Note that the ability to tab between fields first appears in
this tutorial on the seventh page, so you will need to be patient!

I do not think that they could have made this harder to get to!

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

[Adam Hardy (debian)]

Dotan Cohen on 20/05/08 10:17, wrote:

> There is now an English-language demo of the Java applet, but it takes
> some work to get to. First, go to this URL:
> http://mathnet.math.technion.ac.il/
> Then click on the text "English demo of MathNet". To log in use these
> credentials:
> Enter "demo" in the top input box.
> Enter "d" in the bottom input box.
> Press the button below (which is marked "הכנס").
> Now, there will be a vertical menu on the left. Choose the second
> item, which is marked "שיעורי הכנה". The English-language tutorial is
> named "The Riemann Integral". Clicking this will open the Java
> tutorial. Note that the ability to tab between fields first appears in
> this tutorial on the seventh page, so you will need to be patient!
>
> I do not think that they could have made this harder to get to!

Did you notice that you can actually tab between the fields of the login dialog?


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[dotancohen]

2008/5/20 Adam Hardy <adam.ant@...>:
> Did you notice that you can actually tab between the fields of the login
> dialog?
>

Yes, that is in HTML. After that the user opens another page, and only
then opens the Java applet.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Marc Shapiro-2]

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> There is now an English-language demo of the Java applet, but it takes
> some work to get to.
I would have expected better of Technion!  If this is actually a java
problem then they should use something else.  If this is not a java
problem, then Technion ought to have better programmers.  I don't
program in java, so I don't know which it is.  Either way, though, it's
pretty lousy.  I don't have problems using a mouse, but there are times
when using the keyboard is simply easier, or more convenient.  I find
that demo to be awkward to use and would have appreciated the ability to
tab from one field to another, or to simply press enter after entering
the answer in the only field on the form.  It took me at least twice as
long to get through the demo as it should have.

--
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@...




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[dotancohen]

2008/5/21 Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@...>:
> I would have expected better of Technion!

Hard in training, easy in war. I think that is the philosophy behind
some of the Technion's decisions.

> If this is actually a java
> problem then they should use something else.  If this is not a java problem,
> then Technion ought to have better programmers.  I don't program in java, so
> I don't know which it is.  Either way, though, it's pretty lousy.  I don't
> have problems using a mouse, but there are times when using the keyboard is
> simply easier, or more convenient.  I find that demo to be awkward to use
> and would have appreciated the ability to tab from one field to another, or
> to simply press enter after entering the answer in the only field on the
> form.  It took me at least twice as long to get through the demo as it
> should have.

I suspect that it is in Java to prevent the students from reverse
engineering it and thus getting the answers. Though, they may learn
more that way.

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Michelle Konzack-2]

Am 2008-05-18 18:22:25, schrieb Adam Hardy:
> Surely though there is some software that allows you to control the mouse
> via the keyboard?
------------------------ END OF REPLIED MESSAGE ------------------------

It is already there... You can control the Mouse with the
Number-KeyPad and it works from scratch in Sarge and up.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    24V Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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