TS LFP purchase

[Peter VanDerWal]

> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 02:12:59PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>> If you want performance don't go with the TS cells.  You will be very
>> disappointed.
>
> Range is my primary interest.  I'm shooting for 120-144v of 260ah.  I
> figure that will give me up to about 750 battery amps.  From my very
> limited experience with 96v of GC batteries that rarely gets above 100
> amps, that seems sufficient.  Or more than sufficient.  If I'm wrong,
> somebody set me straight.
>

Seems to me someone else on the list is running ~290 AH worth of TS
batteries and having problems with voltage sag.


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Willie McKemie-3]

I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
$1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
brought into Houston.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  221 days  5 hours 50 minutes


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[txhokie4life]

Wasn't there another gentleman working a deal on this list looking at an impending order......

Wish I was ready to order (and knew what I wanted :-) (I'm in Austin).

Mike

Willie McKemie-3 wrote:

I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
$1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
brought into Houston.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  221 days  5 hours 50 minutes


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Roger Heuckeroth]

If you want performance don't go with the TS cells.  You will be very  
disappointed.

On Jul 23, 2008, at 1:21 PM, txhokie4life wrote:

>
> Wasn't there another gentleman working a deal on this list looking  
> at an
> impending order......
>
> Wish I was ready to order (and knew what I wanted :-) (I'm in Austin).
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Willie McKemie-3 wrote:
>>
>> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
>> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
>> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
>> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is  
>> interested
>> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
>> brought into Houston.
>>
>> --
>> Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
>> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
>> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  221 days  5 hours 50 minutes
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
>> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TS-LFP-purchase-tp18615165p18616061.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive  
> at Nabble.com.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ev

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Willie McKemie-3]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 02:12:59PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
> If you want performance don't go with the TS cells.  You will be very  
> disappointed.

Range is my primary interest.  I'm shooting for 120-144v of 260ah.  I
figure that will give me up to about 750 battery amps.  From my very
limited experience with 96v of GC batteries that rarely gets above 100
amps, that seems sufficient.  Or more than sufficient.  If I'm wrong,
somebody set me straight.

--
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  221 days  7 hours 58 minutes


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Norm Woodward]

The batteries I believe you are referring to are LCP, not LFP.  They
consist of two mismatched ah strings connected in an unusual way that
may be causing problems.  They are also several years old and
manufactured to an old spec that was known to have problems with sag.  
They do not have any relevance to the cells here.

..
Norm
http://www.wacparts.com

Peter VanDerWal wrote:

>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 02:12:59PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>>    
>>> If you want performance don't go with the TS cells.  You will be very
>>> disappointed.
>>>      
>> Range is my primary interest.  I'm shooting for 120-144v of 260ah.  I
>> figure that will give me up to about 750 battery amps.  From my very
>> limited experience with 96v of GC batteries that rarely gets above 100
>> amps, that seems sufficient.  Or more than sufficient.  If I'm wrong,
>> somebody set me straight.
>>
>>    
>
> Seems to me someone else on the list is running ~290 AH worth of TS
> batteries and having problems with voltage sag.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>  

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Roger Heuckeroth]

As long as you don't climb any hills...

On Jul 23, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Willie McKemie wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 02:12:59PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>> If you want performance don't go with the TS cells.  You will be very
>> disappointed.
>
> Range is my primary interest.  I'm shooting for 120-144v of 260ah.  I
> figure that will give me up to about 750 battery amps.  From my very
> limited experience with 96v of GC batteries that rarely gets above 100
> amps, that seems sufficient.  Or more than sufficient.  If I'm wrong,
> somebody set me straight.
>
> --  
> Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime  221 days  7 hours 58 minutes
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ 
> ev

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Norm Woodward]

I was wondering if there is anyone here on this list who has actual
first hand real world scientific test data or EV experience with TS LFP
cells >= 100AH.  Every time they are mentioned I see people jump up and
state as fact that the TS batteries are not going to work for people
(seemingly regardless of the requirements or application being
discussed), but they give no first hand facts to back up those
statements, and in fact when I search back in the archives the same
people who can state with certainty now that the batteries are not going
to work for a particular application are the same ones that not long ago
were asking others for information about them.  Eventually they just
start repeating what they have been told and it evolves into fact.

I would love to hear more from people who are actually using these
batteries (LFP, not LCP) in their EV's, and whether or not they are
performing as expected, including specs for the ah rating of the cells
they have, what their expectations were, what currents they draw from
them, and issues they may or may not have with them.  That to me is far
more useful than regurgitated blanket negative comments from people who
have never seen a TS cell.  I have no way of knowing how much of that
type of stuff is based on fact somewhere in the murky past, and how much
of it is just personal opinion about the state of the world economy and
annoyance with international trade.

I have been researching and researching for several weeks now to find
LFP batteries that are within any possibility of my budget, and these
cells may very well be complete garbage but I can't find much in the way
of real world reports from real actual users - only comments from people
who appear to have never seen a TS cell in person but are now experts on
them.  I have only been able to find reports from two actual users of TS
LFP batteries in their vehicles - one in Canada and one in Australia,
and they both reported good results.

If you have first hand experience good or bad with TS or the TS LFP
cells, or have actually tested these batteries in your EV and would like
to share your thoughts then please contact me off list.  I want to make
an informed purchase.  If you have just heard about someone else's bad
experience or have never actually used or thoroughly and scientifically
tested these cells, please go on with your day.  Thanks.

..
Norm
http://www.wacparts.com

Willie McKemie wrote:
> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
> brought into Houston.
>
>  


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Stephen West-2]

$1.72 is a bit steep. You can buy them here http://bev.com.au/Azure.htm for
AU$1.50/Ah including GST (10% Australian sales tax). I don't know if the
Blade guys export to the US, but if they do then that works out to
US$1.30/Ah, with no minimum order quantity. They also sell a matching BMS.

Steve

On 24/07/08 4:58 AM, "Willie McKemie" <mckemie@...> wrote:

> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
> brought into Houston.



_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Powered By DC]

Norm Woodward wrote:

The batteries I believe you are referring to are LCP, not LFP.  They
consist of two mismatched ah strings connected in an unusual way that
may be causing problems.  They are also several years old and
manufactured to an old spec that was known to have problems with sag.  
They do not have any relevance to the cells here.

..
Norm
http://www.wacparts.com

Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 02:12:59PM -0400, Roger Heuckeroth wrote:
>>    
>>> If you want performance don't go with the TS cells.  You will be very
>>> disappointed.
>>>      
>> Range is my primary interest.  I'm shooting for 120-144v of 260ah.  I
>> figure that will give me up to about 750 battery amps.  From my very
>> limited experience with 96v of GC batteries that rarely gets above 100
>> amps, that seems sufficient.  Or more than sufficient.  If I'm wrong,
>> somebody set me straight.
>>
>>    
>
> Seems to me someone else on the list is running ~290 AH worth of TS
> batteries and having problems with voltage sag.
>
>I have used the 200AH and 260AH LFP cells and had no problems with them they perform very well
Dave
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>  


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Rick Beebe]

Elite Power Solutions has been working on their web site and it now
includes prices. They also claim to have BMS & Chargers. The BMS
actually looks kinda cool. BUT, there's no indication of where they
actually are other than a Phoenix area code and they only sell the 40,
60, 90 or 160Ah batteries and they're $1.80/Ah. They do claim they offer
a one year warranty, though.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/index.php?cPath=16

--Rick

Stephen West wrote:

> $1.72 is a bit steep. You can buy them here http://bev.com.au/Azure.htm for
> AU$1.50/Ah including GST (10% Australian sales tax). I don't know if the
> Blade guys export to the US, but if they do then that works out to
> US$1.30/Ah, with no minimum order quantity. They also sell a matching BMS.
>
> Steve
>
> On 24/07/08 4:58 AM, "Willie McKemie" <mckemie@...> wrote:
>
>> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
>> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
>> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
>> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
>> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
>> brought into Houston.

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Stephen West-2]

Going by the specifications for their battery packs EPS are claiming a peak
output power of 2.88 kW for a TS-LFP90. That's wrong by _at_least_ a factor
of 2, which suggests they really don't know what they're talking about.

It looks like someone in their marketing department multiplied a (dubious)
10C by the "nominal" 3.2 cell voltage. At least, I sure hope it was the
marketing department.

Steve

On 24/07/08 3:17 PM, "Rick Beebe" <rick@...> wrote:

> Elite Power Solutions has been working on their web site and it now
> includes prices. They also claim to have BMS & Chargers. The BMS
> actually looks kinda cool. BUT, there's no indication of where they
> actually are other than a Phoenix area code and they only sell the 40,
> 60, 90 or 160Ah batteries and they're $1.80/Ah. They do claim they offer
> a one year warranty, though.
>
> http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/index.php?cPath=16
>
> --Rick
>
> Stephen West wrote:
>> $1.72 is a bit steep. You can buy them here http://bev.com.au/Azure.htm for
>> AU$1.50/Ah including GST (10% Australian sales tax). I don't know if the
>> Blade guys export to the US, but if they do then that works out to
>> US$1.30/Ah, with no minimum order quantity. They also sell a matching BMS.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 24/07/08 4:58 AM, "Willie McKemie" <mckemie@...> wrote:
>>
>>> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
>>> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
>>> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
>>> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
>>> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
>>> brought into Houston.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Powered By DC]

The BMS From thundersky is really a battery monitoring system not a management system I would not use it.  I have used both their 200AH and 260AH cells in my Rav 4 conversions and they work great I have no complaints so far.  I will be using the BMS that Rod Dilkes at EV Power makes on the Rav 4 we are currently working on.

Dave

Rick Beebe wrote:

Elite Power Solutions has been working on their web site and it now
includes prices. They also claim to have BMS & Chargers. The BMS
actually looks kinda cool. BUT, there's no indication of where they
actually are other than a Phoenix area code and they only sell the 40,
60, 90 or 160Ah batteries and they're $1.80/Ah. They do claim they offer
a one year warranty, though.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/index.php?cPath=16

--Rick

Stephen West wrote:
> $1.72 is a bit steep. You can buy them here http://bev.com.au/Azure.htm for
> AU$1.50/Ah including GST (10% Australian sales tax). I don't know if the
> Blade guys export to the US, but if they do then that works out to
> US$1.30/Ah, with no minimum order quantity. They also sell a matching BMS.
>
> Steve
>
> On 24/07/08 4:58 AM, "Willie McKemie" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
>> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
>> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
>> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
>> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
>> brought into Houston.


_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Martin Klingensmith]

Norm,
I asked Scott Tanner about his motorcycle:
<http://evalbum.com/1877>
He said that he hasn't ridden it much yet so he doesn't know about the
batteries. He got them from electricmotorsport.com who won't tell me how
much shipping charges actually cost. The shopping cart says $150
regardless of what's in your shopping cart. I'm not itching to buy one
cell for $100 and pay $150 for shipping just to try it out.
Right now LFPs have the aura of a hipster. i.e. "if you don't know, we
don't want to tell you" .. "if you have to ask, you don't want to know..."
-
Martin

Norm Woodward wrote:

> I was wondering if there is anyone here on this list who has actual
> first hand real world scientific test data or EV experience with TS LFP
> cells >= 100AH.  Every time they are mentioned I see people jump up and
> state as fact that the TS batteries are not going to work for people
> (seemingly regardless of the requirements or application being
> discussed), but they give no first hand facts to back up those
> statements, and in fact when I search back in the archives the same
> people who can state with certainty now that the batteries are not going
> to work for a particular application are the same ones that not long ago
> were asking others for information about them.  Eventually they just
> start repeating what they have been told and it evolves into fact.
>
> I would love to hear more from people who are actually using these
> batteries (LFP, not LCP) in their EV's, and whether or not they are
> performing as expected, including specs for the ah rating of the cells
> they have, what their expectations were, what currents they draw from
> them, and issues they may or may not have with them.  That to me is far
> more useful than regurgitated blanket negative comments from people who
> have never seen a TS cell.  I have no way of knowing how much of that
> type of stuff is based on fact somewhere in the murky past, and how much
> of it is just personal opinion about the state of the world economy and
> annoyance with international trade.
>
> I have been researching and researching for several weeks now to find
> LFP batteries that are within any possibility of my budget, and these
> cells may very well be complete garbage but I can't find much in the way
> of real world reports from real actual users - only comments from people
> who appear to have never seen a TS cell in person but are now experts on
> them.  I have only been able to find reports from two actual users of TS
> LFP batteries in their vehicles - one in Canada and one in Australia,
> and they both reported good results.
>
> If you have first hand experience good or bad with TS or the TS LFP
> cells, or have actually tested these batteries in your EV and would like
> to share your thoughts then please contact me off list.  I want to make
> an informed purchase.  If you have just heard about someone else's bad
> experience or have never actually used or thoroughly and scientifically
> tested these cells, please go on with your day.  Thanks.
>
> ..
> Norm
> http://www.wacparts.com
>
> Willie McKemie wrote:
>> I've about decided to buy a TS LFP pack of about 11,000 ah.  I think
>> I've identified a reliable vendor.  The price for 11K ah is about
>> $1.72/ah exclusive of shipping, hardware, customs, BMS, etc.  Another
>> 9K ah would bring the price down to $1.50/ah.  If anyone is interested
>> in a joint buy, please contact me off list.  I'll probably have them
>> brought into Houston.
>>
>>  
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
> For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

[Martin Klingensmith]

Is anyone else interested in ordering a couple cells to test (a group
buy) I'll run it, we can split shipping cost. The shipping is $98
seemingly regardless of order size (maybe.. I'll check) I'll repackage
and reship.
Please email me directly.
-
Martin

Rick Beebe wrote:

> Elite Power Solutions has been working on their web site and it now
> includes prices. They also claim to have BMS & Chargers. The BMS
> actually looks kinda cool. BUT, there's no indication of where they
> actually are other than a Phoenix area code and they only sell the 40,
> 60, 90 or 160Ah batteries and they're $1.80/Ah. They do claim they offer
> a one year warranty, though.
>
> http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/index.php?cPath=16
>
> --Rick
>

_______________________________________________
For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/
For subscription options, see http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev