Nabble - Squeak - Dev

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T13:58:00Z

Hi Esteban,

> What I want is a flag to avoid the dialog

Sounds great! If you already have a changeset then please send it to
me and I'll merge & commit it.

Cheers,
Ian

[squeak-dev] Re: RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T13:40:31Z

Hi,
Thanks for the answer.
What I want is a flag to avoid the dialog asking if I want to keep the
server running, because that dialog sometimes is uncomfortably for
headless images...

Cheers,
Esteban

On 2008-07-24 17:27:20 -0300, Ian Piumarta <piumarta@...> said:

> Hi Esteban,
>
> On Jul 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>
>> I want to add a "keepRunning" flag to RFBServer, to keep the server
>> when I restart the image (this is useful for headless images - running
>> seaside).
>
> I don't think I completely understand what you are trying to achieve.
> If you have a VNC session active when you try to save & quit, the RFB
> server should already ask you if you want to stop the server. If you
> answer "no" then the server should restart itself automatically
> whenever the saved image restarts. How does that differ from the
> behaviour you would like?
>
> Cheers,
> Ian

Re: [squeak-dev] RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T13:27:20Z

Hi Esteban,

On Jul 24, 2008, at 5:14 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> I want to add a "keepRunning" flag to RFBServer, to keep the server
> when I restart the image (this is useful for headless images -
> running seaside).

I don't think I completely understand what you are trying to
achieve. If you have a VNC session active when you try to save &
quit, the RFB server should already ask you if you want to stop the
server. If you answer "no" then the server should restart itself
automatically whenever the saved image restarts. How does that
differ from the behaviour you would like?

Cheers,
Ian

Re: [squeak-dev] RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T13:06:38Z

Am 24.07.2008 um 15:12 schrieb Adrian Lienhard:

> On Jul 24, 2008, at 20:39 , Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>
>>
>> Am 24.07.2008 um 08:14 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Is the RFB mantainer around? I want to add a "keepRunning" flag to
>>> RFBServer, to keep the server when I restart the image (this is
>>> useful for headless images -running seaside).
>>> Of course, I can keep my own version of RFB, but I think is better
>>> to have just one and expand the options of use.
>>
>>
>> I do not think there is a RFB maintainer currently. At least the
>> SqueakMap page has not been updated in quite a while. You might
>> contact the original author but I guess setting up a repo at squeak
>> source would be a good idea anyway.
>
> there is already one: http://www.squeaksource.com/RFB.html

Ah, didn't know. And now I seem to remember Croquet actually uses
this. So sending patches to Andreas (who is listed as developer on
squeaksource) might be a good idea.

- Bert -

Re: [squeak-dev] RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T12:12:51Z

On Jul 24, 2008, at 20:39 , Bert Freudenberg wrote:

>
> Am 24.07.2008 um 08:14 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Is the RFB mantainer around? I want to add a "keepRunning" flag to
>> RFBServer, to keep the server when I restart the image (this is
>> useful for headless images -running seaside).
>> Of course, I can keep my own version of RFB, but I think is better
>> to have just one and expand the options of use.
>
>
> I do not think there is a RFB maintainer currently. At least the
> SqueakMap page has not been updated in quite a while. You might
> contact the original author but I guess setting up a repo at squeak
> source would be a good idea anyway.

there is already one: http://www.squeaksource.com/RFB.html

Adrian

Re: [squeak-dev] RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T11:39:02Z

Am 24.07.2008 um 08:14 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano:

> Hi all,
> Is the RFB mantainer around? I want to add a "keepRunning" flag to
> RFBServer, to keep the server when I restart the image (this is
> useful for headless images -running seaside).
> Of course, I can keep my own version of RFB, but I think is better
> to have just one and expand the options of use.

I do not think there is a RFB maintainer currently. At least the
SqueakMap page has not been updated in quite a while. You might
contact the original author but I guess setting up a repo at squeak
source would be a good idea anyway.

- Bert -

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this runningimage?

2008-07-24T06:06:32Z

If you are running an LPF image I think that Installer-Launcher has a
hook for running scripts earlier in the startup process.

Keith

[squeak-dev] RFB Mantainer

2008-07-24T05:14:29Z

Hi all,
Is the RFB mantainer around? I want to add a "keepRunning" flag to
RFBServer, to keep the server when I restart the image (this is useful
for headless images -running seaside).
Of course, I can keep my own version of RFB, but I think is better to
have just one and expand the options of use.

Cheers,
Esteban

[squeak-dev] new blog post on the closure analysis

2008-07-24T00:54:23Z

I've followed up with the post on closure analysis in the compiler, and making it pluggable w.r.t. bytecode set.

[squeak-dev] Re: Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this runningimage?

2008-07-24T00:04:11Z

Damien Cassou wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:42 AM, itsme213 <itsme213@...> wrote:
>> "Damien Cassou" <damien.cassou@...> wrote
>>> Is anything happening when you press ALT+.?
>> Thank you!! [I should go back to posting to newbies list]
>
> The newbies list is only here for people afraid of posting in
> squeak-dev. If you are not, please continue to post here :-)

And of course, in emergency situations (yours sounded like it) post on
both. You never know where you might get a faster response.

Cheers,
- Andreas

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this runningimage?

2008-07-23T23:57:44Z

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:42 AM, itsme213 <itsme213@...> wrote:
> "Damien Cassou" <damien.cassou@...> wrote
>> Is anything happening when you press ALT+.?
>
> Thank you!! [I should go back to posting to newbies list]

The newbies list is only here for people afraid of posting in
squeak-dev. If you are not, please continue to post here :-)

--
Damien Cassou
Peter von der Ahé: «I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good
luck». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

[squeak-dev] Re: Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this runningimage?

2008-07-23T23:49:29Z

"Andreas Raab" <andreas.raab@...> wrote in message
news:48882311.1040601@......
> However, you can try a few other things: .......

Thank you Andreas. I've saved your post for the next inevitable time I need
it :-)

Sophie

[squeak-dev] Re: Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this runningimage?

2008-07-23T23:42:10Z

"Damien Cassou" <damien.cassou@...> wrote
> Is anything happening when you press ALT+.?

Thank you!! [I should go back to posting to newbies list]

[squeak-dev] Re: Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this running image?

2008-07-23T23:37:05Z

There is no direct way to do this. However, you can try a few other
things: First thing to try is to hit Alt-. (Alt-Period, Alt-Dot) and see
if your image reacts to it. It usually should. If not, press F2, go to
"Debug Options" and choose "Dump call stack". This should tell you what
is going wrong in your image - sometimes this allows you to fix things
externally (by deleting files that will cause a notifier etc). If not,
quit the image, start it anew, go to the world menu, "changes..." and
"recently logged changes...". This allows you to recover your changes.
And if your image is toast, start another one, go to the file list,
select the other changes file and "recent changes" to see the last
changes. One of these should be able to help you along.

Cheers,
- Andreas

itsme213 wrote:

> I've got my image in some loop, quite unresponsive (XP) and 100% CPU. If I
> try to close the window I get the "quit squeak without saving" dialog, and
> (presumably due to some UI thread blocking on the dialog) CPU drops to 0.
>
> In this state is there any way to sneak in a Monticello save of my working
> package?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sophie
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [squeak-dev] Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this running image?

2008-07-23T23:33:50Z

Is anything happening when you press ALT+.?

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:25 AM, itsme213 <itsme213@...> wrote:

--
Damien Cassou
Peter von der Ahé: «I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good
luck». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu)

[squeak-dev] Can I sneak in a Monticello save into this running image?

2008-07-23T23:25:49Z

I've got my image in some loop, quite unresponsive (XP) and 100% CPU. If I
try to close the window I get the "quit squeak without saving" dialog, and
(presumably due to some UI thread blocking on the dialog) CPU drops to 0.

In this state is there any way to sneak in a Monticello save of my working
package?

Thanks!

Sophie

Re: [squeak-dev] Attempting to get VMMaker properly on SqueakSource

2008-07-23T19:16:49Z

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 06:27:05PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
>
> Anyway as I said, the upload is done and I've added several developers
> to the project to see if we can make it work.

Absolutely great. Thank you.

Re: [squeak-dev] Attempting to get VMMaker properly on SqueakSource

2008-07-23T18:27:05Z

On 23-Jul-08, at 5:33 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:45:44PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
>> I'm currently trying to set up the VMMaker SqueakSource project so
>> that we can share access a bit more easily; things like adding people
>> as developers, putting some verbiage in the wiki etc.
>
> Bravo, thank you for doing this.

I *think* everything is uploaded now. It is certainly possible that I
could have missed an ancestor package somewhere along the line. Anyone
spotting a hole, please let me know.

>
>
>> Right now it's not going very well because the response time is
>> utterly dismal - with a capital *yawn* - and I'm wondering whether
>> others have this problem. If it's normal for everything to take so
>> long I think we won't be very happy.
>
> I've never had a problem with performance on SqueakSource. I don't
> really know what SqueakSource does over the network, but it's pretty
> common for network latency to be the dominant factor in performance
> of things like this. From Michigan, I'm seeing a ping time of a bit
> over 150 msec. For comparison, how is it looking from your location?

I see a couple of hundred mSec ping time but the issue that bugs me in
the slow response on the web side of the job. I seems to take 2-5 sec
to do most web transactions. Gets really annoying after a few dozen!

Anyway as I said, the upload is done and I've added several developers
to the project to see if we can make it work.
Dave, Andreas, Eliot, John & Ian are all signed in. The latest version
is from a month ago when I had time to 'fix' mantis 7072. If you look
at the bugs assigned to me you can get an idea of what should come next.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; tim@...; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day
consuming only things that are good for you.

Re: [squeak-dev] Attempting to get VMMaker properly on SqueakSource

2008-07-23T17:33:58Z

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:45:44PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
> I'm currently trying to set up the VMMaker SqueakSource project so
> that we can share access a bit more easily; things like adding people
> as developers, putting some verbiage in the wiki etc.

Bravo, thank you for doing this.

> Right now it's not going very well because the response time is
> utterly dismal - with a capital *yawn* - and I'm wondering whether
> others have this problem. If it's normal for everything to take so
> long I think we won't be very happy.

I've never had a problem with performance on SqueakSource. I don't
really know what SqueakSource does over the network, but it's pretty
common for network latency to be the dominant factor in performance
of things like this. From Michigan, I'm seeing a ping time of a bit
over 150 msec. For comparison, how is it looking from your location?

lewis@dtlewis:~> ping www.squeaksource.com
PING squeaksource.com (130.92.65.106) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=1 ttl=47 time=153 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=2 ttl=47 time=152 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=3 ttl=47 time=151 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=4 ttl=47 time=152 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=5 ttl=47 time=151 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=6 ttl=47 time=152 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=7 ttl=47 time=151 ms
64 bytes from macamis.unibe.ch (130.92.65.106): icmp_seq=8 ttl=47 time=153 ms

Dave

[squeak-dev] Re: Content for the new web site (was: http://www.pragprog.com/screencasts)

2008-07-23T15:10:39Z

cdrick a écrit :
> Just 2 remarks for the future web site:
>
>> http://live.eclipse.org/
>
> That'd be good to have an equivalent in the new squeak.ork site ;).
> -------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Cédric,
nice to see all the mailing-lists in one page ;-)

--
Serge Stinckwich
Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]
http://blog.doesnotunderstand.org/

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T14:30:27Z

On Jul 23, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Klaus D. Witzel <klaus.witzel@...
> > wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:14:38 +0200, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> ...
> ... example, what 3.9 plus VMMaker did you use (patches?). Can I
>
> prepare an .image by myself or do you intend to upload a prepared one?
>
> I didn't use a VMMaker in 3.9. I simply used the modified Qwaq VM
> to run
> all bootstraps.
>
> Hm, then my question should have been: is this modified VM available
> for the win32's?
>
> No VMs are available. Right now you have to roll your own. I don't
> have the time or expertise to provide an adequate sampling of VMs.
> I don't even have a clear picture of what different VMs are out
> there. Note that Qwaq's VM contains properietary code, so I cant
> simply make that available. So take your own VMMaker package or
> download one, apply the changeset and spit out your own. I guess we
> could try to get it tother to produce a 3.9 VM for the three x86
> platforms, Mac OS X, Win32 & Intel Linux. But I'm not going to do
> this anytime soon. I'm not an expert in building and configuring
> Squeak VMs for general consumption. I'd rather leave that to the
> likes of Tim, John, Andreas and Ian. Noblese oblige ;)

I'll try to make a build of a macintosh version sometime early next
week.

--
=
=
=
========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <johnmci@...>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
=
=
=
========================================================================

[squeak-dev] [ANN] SqueakLightII Winter News

2008-07-23T13:43:59Z

Update your image, see the news.

http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056

I could go from SqueakLightII (should be 3.11) to FunSqueak NOW !!

And without your feedback, can't improve.

So complaint

Edgar

P.D. Nos encontramos en la hora latina de #IRC :=)

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T13:03:21Z

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua@...> wrote:

Good news Elliot! To what i see, changes you made are not too hard to
merge with Hydra changes. :)

Good. I would be very surprised if I did anything incompatible. I want to change as little as possible only to enable closures and a context-to-stack mapping VM. I would doubt that either my Stack VM or a JIT that derives from it would have significant conflicts with Hydra and that these would be resolvable quite easily. You are making VMs play together I'm merely speeding up the execution core.

Too bad, i had little time to work with Hydra for last two weeks.

There are little news, except that Hydra able to run Qwaq Forums on
win32, and it does it quite stable.

Excellent. The StackVM is nearly able to run forums (it at least starts up). I'm taking a couple of days away form it to finish some blog posts on closures.

Yesterday i started writing a CodeGenerator changes overview, i think
i'll finish it tomorrow.

I'm also planned to release an update of Hydra sources and VMMaker
package.. but i postponing release day by day.. because i'm little
nervous, can't really tell the reason..
Maybe because, if these changes, after some evaluation show that VM is
quite stable, this will mean declaring a Hydra VM entering a Beta
stage (on win32 platform only for now). :)

I think you should wait until after ESUG. We should meet at ESUG, show each other our modifications and then publish a merge. What do you think?

[squeak-dev] Attempting to get VMMaker properly on SqueakSource

2008-07-23T12:45:44Z

I'm currently trying to set up the VMMaker SqueakSource project so
that we can share access a bit more easily; things like adding people
as developers, putting some verbiage in the wiki etc.

Right now it's not going very well because the response time is
utterly dismal - with a capital *yawn* - and I'm wondering whether
others have this problem. If it's normal for everything to take so
long I think we won't be very happy.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; tim@...; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
A bug in the code is worth two in the documentation.

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T12:38:40Z

Good news Elliot! To what i see, changes you made are not too hard to
merge with Hydra changes. :)
Too bad, i had little time to work with Hydra for last two weeks.

There are little news, except that Hydra able to run Qwaq Forums on
win32, and it does it quite stable.

Yesterday i started writing a CodeGenerator changes overview, i think
i'll finish it tomorrow.

I'm also planned to release an update of Hydra sources and VMMaker
package.. but i postponing release day by day.. because i'm little
nervous, can't really tell the reason..
Maybe because, if these changes, after some evaluation show that VM is
quite stable, this will mean declaring a Hydra VM entering a Beta
stage (on win32 platform only for now). :)

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

[squeak-dev] Leadership meeting July 16 report

2008-07-23T12:16:26Z

{I really thought I had posted this; apologies for the lateness]

In the spirit of trying to use squeak technology when possible, we
have been trying out the Qwaq Forums system for our meetings with some
encouraging success but also some echo problems plaguing the sound.
But, hey, skype conference calling actually worked for us this time.
To prove it, Randal sang like Kermit for us; twice.

Craig reported the delayed release of the Squeak 4/Spoon code promised
last time due to classbuilder problem (surviving no system dictionary)
needing work.
Randal will write and release a call for comments on which webserver
choice people prefer. We agreed a two week time limit so that we can
aim to reach closure on this soon.
We are still asking for responses to the re-licensing request; we
still have a number of significant contributors not yet sigend up.
No recent communications from SFLC; we're still expected to produce
the 'clean image with author details', all ongoing.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; tim@...; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Java: the best argument for Smalltalk since C++

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T11:24:12Z

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Klaus D. Witzel <klaus.witzel@...> wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:14:38 +0200, Eliot Miranda wrote:

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:

...

... example, what 3.9 plus VMMaker did you use (patches?). Can I

prepare an .image by myself or do you intend to upload a prepared one?

I didn't use a VMMaker in 3.9. I simply used the modified Qwaq VM to run
all bootstraps.

Hm, then my question should have been: is this modified VM available for the win32's?

No VMs are available. Right now you have to roll your own. I don't have the time or expertise to provide an adequate sampling of VMs. I don't even have a clear picture of what different VMs are out there. Note that Qwaq's VM contains properietary code, so I cant simply make that available. So take your own VMMaker package or download one, apply the changeset and spit out your own. I guess we could try to get it tother to produce a 3.9 VM for the three x86 platforms, Mac OS X, Win32 & Intel Linux. But I'm not going to do this anytime soon. I'm not an expert in building and configuring Squeak VMs for general consumption. I'd rather leave that to the likes of Tim, John, Andreas and Ian. Noblese oblige ;)

But I did run the bootstrap in Qwaq internal images,
Croquet 1.0.18 and Squeak3.9-final-7067.

I think at this stage the code is too green for me to upload a prepared
image. I'd rather people built their own. That way I can still fix and
change details before things get too frozen.

Okay. I was reflecting mainly the VM source code changes here. I'll skip them.

One example is whether to use indexed inst vars to hold copied values in
BlockClosure, or as I do currently to use an Array. If using an inst var
closure creation is slower but adding inst vars is easy.

Since there where 1-2 questions during recent years, for adding instVars to some subclass of ContextPart, why not?

If using indexed
inst vars then either the VM makes it impossible to add inst vars (something
up with which I shall not put) or the code for evaluation is slowed down
because the VM needs to find the size of the closure and the number of named
slots. So there needs to be a performance evaluation done of each approach.

Performance of loading the array oop from its slot v.s. computing # of named slots? How about just incrementing stackPointer for allocating the closure's slots (as is done for method temps) when the BlockClosure is created. Of course this then needs a base value (like initial IP has).

Another example is temp names for the debugger and for sourceless methods.
I'm not sure I've got the former right and I broke the latter. I suspect
that there is a middle ground that solves both of these.

This was also a problem for the current Decompiler (IIRC Stef posted such an example long time ago).

So for now build your own images and contact me with comments, suggestions
fixes etc, either directly or to the blog.

Will see what is possible by using 3.8 as base (most likely not before Saturday).

Eventually I'll have to grok
some form of issue tracking (and suggestions are welcome) but for now I'll keep it cheap and cheerful.

/Klaus

and tying up loose ends (for example I broke decompile with temp names and

haven't fixed it).

Thanks and enjoy.

[squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T10:57:57Z

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:14:38 +0200, Eliot Miranda wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
...
>> ... example, what 3.9 plus VMMaker did you use (patches?). Can I
>> prepare an .image by myself or do you intend to upload a prepared one?
>
> I didn't use a VMMaker in 3.9. I simply used the modified Qwaq VM to run
> all bootstraps.

Hm, then my question should have been: is this modified VM available for
the win32's?

> But I did run the bootstrap in Qwaq internal images,
> Croquet 1.0.18 and Squeak3.9-final-7067.
>
> I think at this stage the code is too green for me to upload a prepared
> image. I'd rather people built their own. That way I can still fix and
> change details before things get too frozen.

Okay. I was reflecting mainly the VM source code changes here. I'll skip
them.

> One example is whether to use indexed inst vars to hold copied values in
> BlockClosure, or as I do currently to use an Array. If using an inst var
> closure creation is slower but adding inst vars is easy.

Since there where 1-2 questions during recent years, for adding instVars
to some subclass of ContextPart, why not?

> If using indexed
> inst vars then either the VM makes it impossible to add inst vars
> (something
> up with which I shall not put) or the code for evaluation is slowed down
> because the VM needs to find the size of the closure and the number of
> named
> slots. So there needs to be a performance evaluation done of each
> approach.

Performance of loading the array oop from its slot v.s. computing # of
named slots? How about just incrementing stackPointer for allocating the
closure's slots (as is done for method temps) when the BlockClosure is
created. Of course this then needs a base value (like initial IP has).

> Another example is temp names for the debugger and for sourceless
> methods.
> I'm not sure I've got the former right and I broke the latter. I
> suspect
> that there is a middle ground that solves both of these.

This was also a problem for the current Decompiler (IIRC Stef posted such
an example long time ago).

> So for now build your own images and contact me with comments,
> suggestions
> fixes etc, either directly or to the blog.

Will see what is possible by using 3.8 as base (most likely not before
Saturday).

> Eventually I'll have to grok
> some form of issue tracking (and suggestions are welcome) but for now
> I'll keep it cheap and cheerful.
>
>>
>> /Klaus
>>
>> and tying up loose ends (for example I broke decompile with temp names
>> and
>>> haven't fixed it).
>>>
>>> Thanks and enjoy.
>>>
>>

[squeak-dev] Re: Q: FileStream class>>#writeSourceCodeFrom:* and *TextConverter

2008-07-23T09:42:15Z

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:46:58 +0200, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:

> At Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:55:45 +0200,
> Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to successfully fileOut and fileIn class and method comments
>> with characters codePoint <= 255 (the "european" range of byte size
>> characters).
>>
>> Fileout works but the file looks to have prefix from #writeBOMOn: of
>> UTF8TextConverter and file suffix is ".st" or ".cs". On fileIn this
>> fails
>> with syntax error :( and Google search did not help. Has anyone
>> experience
>> with source code fileOut/fileIn for the "european" character range?
>>
>> Did a quick shot on FileStream class>>#writeSourceCodeFrom:*, with
>> #isAsciiString replaced by #isWideString (followed by ifFalse:ifTrue:),
>> filed out again and then fileIn was happy again.
>>
>> I understand this is perhaps not really sort of bug, but want a bit more
>> than just the ascii characters. So what do you Squeakers recommend, how
>> should that be done in a Squeak platform compatible way?
>
> What version is it?

Found the method in 3.10 and checked it against 3.9 (same method), but in
3.8 the method source code is garbled (decompiler shows it's the same
method).

Meanwhile I did:

filedIn unpatched 3.9 from fileOut of my patched 3.10 (has no BOM): worked
filedOut again from 3.9: (it wrote BOM as expected)
filedIn 3.9 the fileOut from 3.9 (it has BOM): it worked
filedIn 3.10 the fileOut from 3.9 (it has BOM): it worked

Now I'm stuck, since the problem was not reproduced ? (did a lot of
changes meanwhile to the class comment in question). Will have to go
through the .changes and try to find the problematic chunk. FWIW the net
effect was the compiler raised a SyntaxError complaining about the BOM
characters.

I'll let you know what I find.

> Is should be isAsciiString,

Anything which at fileOut time is compatible with fileIn's decision should
work (IMHO), for example #isOctetString looks to be great for many
"european" users.

> yes, and The Etoys image is in that way.

Okay. And thank you.

/Klaus

> -- Yoshiki
>
>

Re: [squeak-dev] Q: FileStream class>>#writeSourceCodeFrom:* and *TextConverter

2008-07-23T08:46:58Z

At Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:55:45 +0200,
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to successfully fileOut and fileIn class and method comments
> with characters codePoint <= 255 (the "european" range of byte size
> characters).
>
> Fileout works but the file looks to have prefix from #writeBOMOn: of
> UTF8TextConverter and file suffix is ".st" or ".cs". On fileIn this fails
> with syntax error :( and Google search did not help. Has anyone experience
> with source code fileOut/fileIn for the "european" character range?
>
> Did a quick shot on FileStream class>>#writeSourceCodeFrom:*, with
> #isAsciiString replaced by #isWideString (followed by ifFalse:ifTrue:),
> filed out again and then fileIn was happy again.
>
> I understand this is perhaps not really sort of bug, but want a bit more
> than just the ascii characters. So what do you Squeakers recommend, how
> should that be done in a Squeak platform compatible way?

What version is it? Is should be isAsciiString, yes, and The Etoys
image is in that way.

-- Yoshiki

[squeak-dev] Re: Content for the new web site (was: http://www.pragprog.com/screencasts)

2008-07-23T08:17:09Z

> Also, I think embedding nabble squeak page could be nice (but I think
> we need the owner to access the javascript snippet to insert)
> http://www.nabble.com/Squeak-f14152.html

For those interested
To embed nabble page that agregates all squeak mailing lists, here is
the js code you can insert in any web page (this is cool to
search...)

<a id="nabblelink"
href="http://www.nabble.com/Squeak-f14152.html">Squeak Mailing
Lists</a><script src="http://www.nabble.com/embed/f14152"></script>

Cédrick

Re: [squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T08:14:38Z

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 6:34 AM, Klaus D. Witzel <klaus.witzel@...> wrote:

Hi Eliot,

on Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:14:51 +0200, you wrote:

Hi All,
I've made a significant step today in making available the first cut of
my closure scheme. There is a new blog post on

www.mirandabanda.org/cogblogabout the closure bytecodes which at the

end includes a pointer to the
bootstrap @ www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/Closures0808/Bootstrap/. The
bootstrap has been tested on internal Qwaq images, and on Croquet 1.0 and
Squeak 3.9.

Terrific !

I'd love to hear of other ports, e.g. to 3.10 and to Spoon.
I'm interested in bug reports (I haven't yet tested eToys) and code reviews

I've parsed quite a bunch of the .cs files from your directory and found only *good* things (since I have not much to compare against when reading them with a web browser ;) like for example #methodClass during boot; also putting (s := myStream upToEnd) into Parser's loop on ReparseAfterSourceEditing; also the new bytecodes which look damned cool ! :)

Wish I could compare more, against original methods and by using Smalltalk tools for example, what 3.9 plus VMMaker did you use (patches?). Can I prepare an .image by myself or do you intend to upload a prepared one?

I didn't use a VMMaker in 3.9. I simply used the modified Qwaq VM to run all bootstraps. But I did run the bootstrap in Qwaq internal images, Croquet 1.0.18 and Squeak3.9-final-7067.

I think at this stage the code is too green for me to upload a prepared image. I'd rather people built their own. That way I can still fix and change details before things get too frozen.

One example is whether to use indexed inst vars to hold copied values in BlockClosure, or as I do currently to use an Array. If using an inst var closure creation is slower but adding inst vars is easy. If using indexed inst vars then either the VM makes it impossible to add inst vars (something up with which I shall not put) or the code for evaluation is slowed down because the VM needs to find the size of the closure and the number of named slots. So there needs to be a performance evaluation done of each approach.

Another example is temp names for the debugger and for sourceless methods. I'm not sure I've got the former right and I broke the latter. I suspect that there is a middle ground that solves both of these.

So for now build your own images and contact me with comments, suggestions fixes etc, either directly or to the blog. Eventually I'll have to grok some form of issue tracking (and suggestions are welcome) but for now I'll keep it cheap and cheerful.

/Klaus

and tying up loose ends (for example I broke decompile with temp names and
haven't fixed it).

Thanks and enjoy.

[squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code

2008-07-23T06:34:22Z

Hi Eliot,

on Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:14:51 +0200, you wrote:

> Hi All,
> I've made a significant step today in making available the first cut
> of
> my closure scheme. There is a new blog post on
> www.mirandabanda.org/cogblogabout the closure bytecodes which at the
> end includes a pointer to the
> bootstrap @ www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/Closures0808/Bootstrap/. The
> bootstrap has been tested on internal Qwaq images, and on Croquet 1.0 and
> Squeak 3.9.

Terrific !

> I'd love to hear of other ports, e.g. to 3.10 and to Spoon.
> I'm interested in bug reports (I haven't yet tested eToys) and code
> reviews

I've parsed quite a bunch of the .cs files from your directory and found
only *good* things (since I have not much to compare against when reading
them with a web browser ;) like for example #methodClass during boot; also
putting (s := myStream upToEnd) into Parser's loop on
ReparseAfterSourceEditing; also the new bytecodes which look damned cool !
:)

Wish I could compare more, against original methods and by using Smalltalk
tools for example, what 3.9 plus VMMaker did you use (patches?). Can I
prepare an .image by myself or do you intend to upload a prepared one?

/Klaus

> and tying up loose ends (for example I broke decompile with temp names
> and
> haven't fixed it).
>
> Thanks and enjoy.

[squeak-dev] Content for the new web site (was: http://www.pragprog.com/screencasts)

2008-07-23T01:37:10Z

Just 2 remarks for the future web site:

> http://live.eclipse.org/

That'd be good to have an equivalent in the new squeak.ork site ;).

Also, I think embedding nabble squeak page could be nice (butI think
we need the owner to access the javascript snippet to insert)
http://www.nabble.com/Squeak-f14152.html

Cédrick

Re: [Seaside] Re: Re: [squeak-dev] [Q] File Upload/Download Server, Comanche or Swazoo

2008-07-23T00:50:16Z

Philippe Marschall wrote:

> 10 GB is massive. There are whole lot of 32bit integers that can
> overflow and a lot of other things that can go wrong at any stage
> including the browser and Apache.
>
>> My current idea is that I should create module(?) for Comanche or Swazoo for File
>> Upload (this just process multipart/form request for file upload with additional
>> parameters) and small web application or module for processing download url.(This
>> might be possible with Seaside with RESTable URL support or simple module).
>
> I only tried the upload streaming for Kom on localhost. While it could
> handle largish files (40 MB) it wasn't able to get close to 400 MB. So
> Kom might not be your tool. I have not seen an upload streaming API
> for Swazoo (which doesn't mean it's not there). Squeak might not be
> the best tool for the job where. HTTP might not be as well.

Swazoo 2.x has streaming upload and download capability and can easily
handle such big files. I tested with few GB by myself. On both Squeak
and VW.

Maybe it is a time to add that streaming to your Swazoo adaptor too? See
http://www.swazoo.org/streaming.html for more. See also HTTPRequestTest
with examples, how to use it (testing-posts).

Best regards
Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si