Nabble - Squeak - Beginners

Re: [ANN] SqueakLightII Sunday News !!!

2008-07-06T13:35:08Z

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Edgar J. De Cleene <edgardec2001@...> wrote:

To the huge multitude of SqueakLightII (3.11 unofficial) fans I got
Spirograph 3.005.pr of Diego Gomez Deck (2004 originated) as you could see
in the pict.

Still need some polish for fool proof newbies, but is running .

Also I have Aida / Scribo running on SqueakLightII.
And put the loading script on the swiki page.

Good work...I still owe you a list of other "problem" packages! I forgot to say I had Aida running my simple using Monticello and loading packages from disk...an alternative method if necessary...

Rob

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[ANN] SqueakLightII Sunday News !!!

2008-07-06T13:30:53Z

To the huge multitude of SqueakLightII (3.11 unofficial) fans I got
Spirograph 3.005.pr of Diego Gomez Deck (2004 originated) as you could see
in the pict.

Still need some polish for fool proof newbies, but is running .

Also I have Aida / Scribo running on SqueakLightII.
And put the loading script on the swiki page.

So , is not vaporware and begins to show people could have a smaller ,
modular image and choices about how he/she wish grow.

In the process I learning a lot about the art of put the worms again in the
same can as they live some time ago :=)

As example , for proper loading my in Ladrillos version EToys-edc.29.mcz
needs load ScriptEditorMorph , TwoWayScrollPane and
ZoomAndScrollControllerMorph before.

My in the way 7189PackagesUniversesGlue.6.cs could "discover" this and
intelligent load the classes from ftp.

No panic, I only put four classes for show the idea of classes repository I
have from 2005 is working.

If I have authorization, could put all stuff I have in
ftp://squeakros.atspace.com/squeakros.atspace.com/CompressedClasses/ "3.8"
ftp://edgardec@.../squeakros.atspace.com/3dot9
ftp://squeakros.atspace.com/squeakros.atspace.com/3dot11.

But wait, some classes from past was very weird designed.

See by example TileMorph initialize , you should have three morphs and run
a commented out method...

The only fast solution I see is made a EtoysReload.sar with all the stuff
into.

Edgar

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Level Playing Field image compression side effect

2008-07-06T13:25:37Z

Hello...

I have noticed that after installing packages (say for example starting with a dev image and loading everything else you need), my image will swell considerably (as noticed both on the disk after saving, and with MemoryUsage). Garbage collection and saving doesn't seem to fix it, but if I re-run the level playing field script, it seems to clean things up.

I'm not sure what it's doing, but I thought it worth passing on...

However, if you do this a lot (because you mess things up so badly that you have to unload and re-load packages to get things straightened out, which I can confess to on the Beginners List), make sure you do a Smalltalk condenseChanges every now and then, or it will come back to bite you too!

Rob

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Re: more of a general smalltalk question

2008-07-06T09:28:09Z

An idea: learning from source code could be documented too by small "how-to".

For instance to understand how sandstonedb works (which is already
well documented thanks to Ramon) we could imagine that:

HOW-TO-LEARNING SDActiveRecord "file oodb persistency inspired by
ruby activerecord framework"
-restoring persistent objects

"put a self halt in SDActiveRecord class>>warmUp" (wich is called at
startup for activerecord like objects,
"save and quit". then
"start again the image".
This opens a debugger that will help you understand how persistent
objects are restored... Debugger will open on Mock classes that exists
for test reasons. It will also open on all your active records
(subclasses of SDActiveRecord)

etc etc...

This is a small documentation effort that would be precious. We could
also illlustrate with videos which if we had standard tools could be
done without too much effort (I mean less than getting all done with
text only)...

see: http://www.squeaksource.com/SandstoneDb/

My 2 cents ;)

Cédrick

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Re: more of a general smalltalk question

2008-07-06T07:51:13Z

There's no education like source code. :)

I agree

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@...> wrote:

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Allen <sean@...> writes:

Sean> but i'm using squeak as my 'really learn smalltalk' einvironment so...

Sean> can any suggest any good reading, books, websites, whatever for learning

Sean> the ins and outs of how exceptions, signals etc work in smalltalk. i'm

Sean> interested in both an 'end user' perspective as a start but getting into

Sean> the nitty gritty of the why of the implementation as well.

For me, the best way to understand the Exception class was to browse it,

browse references to it, and also to the subclasses, especially with something

like Seaside loaded that makes interesting uses of Exceptions to deal with

continuations. Seeing how it works in practice made it finally go click.

There's no education like source code. :)

--

Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095

<merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>

Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.

See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

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David Zmick

/dz0004455\

http://dz0004455.googlepages.com

http://dz0004455.blogspot.com

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Re: MorphicGreeting (was Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T03:56:15Z

El 7/6/08 7:36 AM, "Prashanth Hebbar" <hebbarp@...> escribió:

> Edgar:
>
> That's a cute kitten! I am interested in looking into the project file. Can
> you send it to me or let me know how best to source it.
>
> Regards,

Here the fileOut of original 2002 project.
Was one of my first on Squeak.
Later or tomorrow i look in back ups , have some older of how to read the
colors from external ascii file and have Squeak "learn" this new colors.
Could be useful to some...

Works with GreetingMorph new, the pict and the midi should be on the same
Squeak folder.
Somewhere I have a modern version for explore the computer for files...

I on a half hour and then I start to watch formula one

Edgar

'From Squeak3.8 of ''5 May 2005'' [latest update: #6665] on 6 July 2008 at 7:48:04 am'! BorderedMorph subclass: #GreetingMorph instanceVariableNames: 'music greetString image' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'Morphic-Greeting'! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'stepping' stamp: 'EDC 8/21/2002 17:40'! step | x y n each | submorphs size = 0 ifTrue: [ self doGreet]. n _ (1 to: submorphs size) atRandom. each _ submorphs at: n. each class == ImageMorph ifTrue: [^self]. x _ (20 to: 730) atRandom. y _ (20 to: 470) atRandom. each position: x@y. each comeToFront. self refreshWorld ! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'stepping' stamp: 'EDC 7/20/2002 07:20'! stepTime "Answer the desired time between steps in milliseconds." ^ 1000! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 7/20/2002 15:41'! backColor: aColor self color: aColor! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 7/21/2002 06:25'! chooseColor | buttons file rgb linea valores b max paleta maxX x y cuenta | paleta _ PasteUpMorph new. paleta layoutPolicy: nil. paleta hResizing: #rigid. paleta vResizing: #rigid. paleta borderWidth: 2. paleta borderColor: Color black. paleta color: Color white. paleta openInWorld. maxX _ 0. x _ 0. y _ 0. cuenta _ 0. buttons _ OrderedCollection new. file _ FileStream oldFileNamed: 'ColoresCrayon.text'. [file atEnd] whileFalse: [ linea_ file nextLine. valores _ linea findTokens: Character space. rgb _ valores collect: [:each| (each asInteger / 65535) asFloat]. linea_ file nextLine. b _ (SimpleButtonMorph new label: linea; color: (Color fromArray: rgb); target: self; actionSelector: #backColor:; arguments: (Array with: (Color fromArray: rgb)) ). buttons add: b]. b _ (SimpleButtonMorph new label: 'Enough Fun ?'; color: Color white; target: self; actionSelector: #killFrontDialog). buttons add: b. "Compute the max width" max _ 0. buttons do: [:each | max _ each width max: max]. "Set all widths to the max value" buttons do: [:each | each width: max]. buttons reverseDo: [:each | each position: x@y. paleta addMorph: each. cuenta < 7 ifTrue: [x _ x + each width. cuenta _ cuenta + 1] ifFalse: [y _ y + each height. x > maxX ifTrue: [maxX _ x]. x _ 0. cuenta _ 0. ]]. maxX _ maxX + 10 . y _ y + 10. paleta extent: maxX @ y. paleta position: 30@30 . paleta becomeLikeAHolder. ! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 7/22/2002 08:08'! chooseMidi | f score fileName | fileName _ Utilities chooseFileWithSuffixFromList: #('.mid' '.midi') withCaption: 'Choose a MIDI file to open'. (fileName isNil or: [ fileName == #none ]) ifTrue: [^ self inform: 'No .mid/.midi files found in the Squeak directory']. f _ FileStream readOnlyFileNamed: fileName. score _ (MIDIFileReader new readMIDIFrom: f binary) asScore. f close. music _ ScorePlayer onScore: score. ! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:39'! choosePhoto | fileName | fileName _ Utilities chooseFileWithSuffixFromList: #('.jpg' '.gif' ) withCaption: 'Choose a graphic file to open'. (fileName isNil or: [fileName == #none]) ifTrue: [^ self inform: 'No .jpg/.gif files found in the Squeak directory']. image _ (Form fromFileNamed: fileName) asMorph. self addMorphCentered: image! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 11:52'! crayonColorsDefine | stolenData | stolenData _ #(65535 55705 45875 #Apricot 0 58982 58982 #Aquamarine 55705 19661 0 #Bittersweet 19005 19661 51773 #Blue 32768 40632 47185 #Blue #Gray 0 45219 41287 #Blue #Green 5898 0 21626 #Blue #Violet 44564 0 0 #Brick 32768 9830 0 #Brown 38666 16384 0 #Burnt #Sienna 65535 49151 49151 #Carnation 32768 3277 0 #Chinese #Red 45875 13107 2621 #Copper 41942 37355 65535 #Cornflower 0 24248 0 #Forest #Green 65535 52428 0 #Gold 65535 49151 13107 #Goldenrod 39321 39321 39321 #Gray 22937 36700 40632 #Gray #Blue 0 53739 0 #Green 0 39321 41287 #Green #Blue 52428 65535 0 #Green #Yellow 65535 45875 65535 #Lavender 65535 65535 19661 #Lemon 65535 0 65535 #Magenta 46530 16384 0 #Mahogany 65535 49151 6554 #Maize 51117 0 17039 #Maroon 65535 22937 14418 #Melon 0 5243 26214 #Midnight 55049 0 30801 #Mulberry 0 0 38010 #Navy 55049 55049 17694 #Olive 65535 39321 0 #Orange 65535 6554 0 #Orange #Red 65535 49151 0 #Orange #Yellow 65535 32768 65535 #Orchid 65535 52428 42598 #Peach 45875 45875 55705 #Periwinkle 4587 26869 15728 #Pine #Green 18350 0 26214 #Plum 15728 0 21627 #Purple 45219 17694 0 #Raw #Sienna 21627 5243 0 #Raw #Umber 57671 0 0 #Red 65535 16384 0 #Red #Orange 57015 0 47841 #Red #Violet 65535 32768 45875 #Rose 65535 39321 32768 #Salmon 0 65535 26214 #Seafoam 30146 9830 13107 #Sepia 42598 42598 42598 #Silver 47185 60292 65535 #Sky 0 65535 0 #Spring #Green 57015 18350 0 #Swamp #Fire 47841 25559 0 #Tan 0 52428 52428 #Turquoise 13107 0 21627 #Violet #Blue 58982 0 65535 #Violet #Red 65535 65535 0 #Yellow 45875 65535 0 #Yellow #Green 65535 42598 0 #Yellow #Orange ). ^ stolenData! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:45'! doGreet | greetWords cartel | music reset. music resumePlaying. self center: Display center. self toggleStickiness. self addMorphCentered: image. greetWords _ greetString findTokens: Character space. greetWords do: [:greet | cartel _ TTSampleStringMorph new initializeToStandAlone. cartel string: greet. cartel center: self center. cartel bottom: self bottom + 10. self addMorphBack: cartel. self openInWorld]! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 8/21/2002 17:25'! initialize super initialize. self extent: 750 @ 490. self color: Color paleBlue. self borderWidth: 2. greetString _ FillInTheBlank request: 'Please, type your message' initialAnswer: 'Edgar, from SqueakRos, say long life and prosperity.'. self choosePhoto. self chooseMidi. self doGreet! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'initialization' stamp: 'EDC 7/21/2002 06:05'! killFrontDialog | dialog | . dialog _ ActiveWorld submorphs detect: [:m | m class == PasteUpMorph]. dialog delete.! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'menu' stamp: 'EDC 7/21/2002 06:20'! addCustomMenuItems: aCustomMenu hand: aHandMorph "Include our modest command set in the ctrl-menu" super addCustomMenuItems: aCustomMenu hand: aHandMorph. aCustomMenu addLine. self addMenuItemsTo: aCustomMenu hand: aHandMorph! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'menu' stamp: 'EDC 7/22/2002 08:03'! addMenuItemsTo: aMenu hand: aHandMorph aMenu add: 'new background color' target: self action: #chooseColor. aMenu add: 'new midi music.' target: self action: #chooseMidi. aMenu add: 'save this greet' target: self action: #saveMorph! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'fileIn/out' stamp: 'EDC 7/22/2002 08:12'! saveMorph self stopStepping. submorphs _ EmptyArray. ^ self saveOnFile! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'event handling' stamp: 'EDC 5/17/2002 05:34'! handlesMouseDown: evt "Prevent stray clicks from picking up the whole game in MVC." ^ Smalltalk isMorphic not or: [evt yellowButtonPressed]! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'event handling' stamp: 'EDC 5/17/2002 05:32'! mouseDown: evt | menu | evt yellowButtonPressed ifFalse: [^ self]. menu _ MenuMorph new defaultTarget: self. self addMenuItemsTo: menu hand: evt hand. menu popUpEvent: evt in: self world! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:37'! greetString "Answer the value of greetString" ^ greetString! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:37'! greetString: anObject "Set the value of greetString" greetString _ anObject! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:37'! image "Answer the value of image" ^ image! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:37'! image: anObject "Set the value of image" image _ anObject! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:37'! music "Answer the value of music" ^ music! ! !GreetingMorph methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'EDC 12/31/2002 14:37'! music: anObject "Set the value of music" music _ anObject! !
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Re: MorphicGreeting (was Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T03:36:50Z

Edgar:

That's a cute kitten! I am interested in looking into the project file. Can you send it to me or let me know how best to source it.

Regards,

On 7/6/08, Edgar J. De Cleene <edgardec2001@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> El 7/6/08 5:39 AM, "Prashanth Hebbar" <hebbarp@...> escribió:
>
>> Thanks Edgar. My failure with Flash is due to my own doing (not being
>> persistent) and I remember you had given me some good pointers.
>
> And like help you and all here.
> I was in the same place six years ago and also I comes from structured world ,
> Pascal , Omnis 3 and Old Classic Mac Toolbox was my background when I
> "discover" Squeak .
> I port my old MorphicGreeting from 3.2 times so could have some ideas to
> develop.
>
> Stay tuned.
>
> Edgar

Was easier as I think, I need save the original 3.2 from six years ago first
in 3.8, delete all windows and create the "greeting card" again.
This one was saved and voila, SqueakLight could open without any complain.
I put here a low quality pict, the music was once send to list by Alan and I
bet nobody find cute kitties into his desk as me

The Project with photo and music is 408 k , so is big to save on the swiki,
but I could send to any.

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--
Prashanth Hebbar
Bangalore
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MorphicGreeting (was Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T02:28:17Z

>
>
> El 7/6/08 5:39 AM, "Prashanth Hebbar" <hebbarp@...> escribió:
>
>> Thanks Edgar. My failure with Flash is due to my own doing (not being
>> persistent) and I remember you had given me some good pointers.
>
> And like help you and all here.
> I was in the same place six years ago and also I comes from structured world ,
> Pascal , Omnis 3 and Old Classic Mac Toolbox was my background when I
> "discover" Squeak .
> I port my old MorphicGreeting from 3.2 times so could have some ideas to
> develop.
>
> Stay tuned.
>
> Edgar

Was easier as I think, I need save the original 3.2 from six years ago first
in 3.8, delete all windows and create the "greeting card" again.
This one was saved and voila, SqueakLight could open without any complain.
I put here a low quality pict, the music was once send to list by Alan and I
bet nobody find cute kitties into his desk as me

The Project with photo and music is 408 k , so is big to save on the swiki,
but I could send to any.

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T01:56:43Z

El 7/6/08 5:39 AM, "Prashanth Hebbar" <hebbarp@...> escribió:

> Thanks Edgar. My failure with Flash is due to my own doing (not being
> persistent) and I remember you had given me some good pointers.

And like help you and all here.
I was in the same place six years ago and also I comes from structured world
, Pascal , Omnis 3 and Old Classic Mac Toolbox was my background when I
"discover" Squeak .
I port my old MorphicGreeting from 3.2 times so could have some ideas to
develop.

Stay tuned.

Edgar

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T01:39:21Z

> 2. I failed to run some Flash movies on Squeak, some months ago Edgar had
> suggested that older images support Flash but it didn't work for me. Maybe I
> failed to include the Balloon package and was trying to activate the
> FlashPlayer Morph. I lost interest in that at that point in time and left off
> my experiments.

Because Flash in Squeak is older (version 3).
Sure can't run new versions of Flash made things.
By the way my answer to Rob in the SqueakLightII
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056 , shows how to load Flash and as
SqueakLightII is 3.10 based, also could be loaded with user help.

Not run newer Flash and I don't have any plans to do.

Thanks Edgar. My failure with Flash is due to my own doing (not being persistent) and I remember you had given me some good pointers.

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T01:31:34Z

PH> I have been using Squeak for corporate presentation. I have
PH> effectively stopped using PowerPoint. As you suspected, I use the
PH> book morph and the stack morph for creating presentations. My

interesting. What image are you using?

PH: 3.9 and 3.10. I do have 3.6 image but rarely use it.

PH> 1. I tried animating my Squeak presentations using EToys but it is way too hard

To see what can be done, search the web for Squeak News. Tansel
Ersavas has done some very impressive interactive essays in Squeak.
Just to get up your appetitite for learning :-))

PH: Yes. I am going through the stuff now. Thanks for pointing this out.

PH> But I must say that I have been sticking to Squeak as my
PH> authoring platform. I take notes using workspace and export it as
PH> txt files for further use. I use stack morphs to develop story
PH> boards (I am a writer, specialising in technology and economy.)

Maybe take a look at Sophie?

PH: I had given it a quick look an year ago but did not go back. Will do now.

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T01:22:53Z

El 7/6/08 2:06 AM, "Prashanth Hebbar" <hebbarp@...> escribió:

> 2. I failed to run some Flash movies on Squeak, some months ago Edgar had
> suggested that older images support Flash but it didn't work for me. Maybe I
> failed to include the Balloon package and was trying to activate the
> FlashPlayer Morph. I lost interest in that at that point in time and left off
> my experiments.

Because Flash in Squeak is older (version 3).
Sure can't run new versions of Flash made things.
By the way my answer to Rob in the SqueakLightII
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056 , shows how to load Flash and as
SqueakLightII is 3.10 based, also could be loaded with user help.

Not run newer Flash and I don't have any plans to do.

Edgar

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-06T01:05:05Z

Hello Prashanth,

PH> I have been using Squeak for corporate presentation. I have
PH> effectively stopped using PowerPoint. As you suspected, I use the
PH> book morph and the stack morph for creating presentations. My

interesting. What image are you using?

PH> 1. I tried animating my Squeak presentations using EToys but it is way too hard

To see what can be done, search the web for Squeak News. Tansel
Ersavas has done some very impressive interactive essays in Squeak.
Just to get up your appetitite for learning :-))

PH> 2. I failed to run some Flash movies on Squeak, some months
PH> ago Edgar had suggested that older images support Flash but it
PH> didn't work for me. Maybe I failed to include the Balloon package
PH> and was trying to activate the FlashPlayer Morph. I lost interest
PH> in that at that point in time and left off my experiments.

AFAIK Squeak only understands Flash 3. Try a 3.6 to 3.8 full image, it
should have everything installed

PH> But I must say that I have been sticking to Squeak as my
PH> authoring platform. I take notes using workspace and export it as
PH> txt files for further use. I use stack morphs to develop story
PH> boards (I am a writer, specialising in technology and economy.)

Maybe take a look at Sophie?

PH> This may be too low-level for people on this mail-list.
PH> Please forgive me. If you have ideas for me, I will be grateful.
PH> (I intend to do some serious programming in the days to come. I
PH> have programmed in Fortran, Cobol, Pascal, C , Basic and used
PH> DBase IV and FoxBase. This is all between 1989 to 1994.)

This is beginners. Actually I guess you qualify as a professional
Squeak user, maybe not mainsteram. Squeak is more than programming.

Cheers,

Herbert

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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-06T00:31:33Z

Hello Rob,

RR> Have you written any "tools" for this? I have been doing
RR> some of this for very challenging information, but like the "easy

not really.

My QueryBuilder just concats fixed stings with person names, products
and date or time ranges taken from the UI.

RR> The problem you run into with any type of query grouping is that
RR> you run into the situation where you get the first FIRST ICU time
RR> and the last LAST ICU time in the example above, not the first and
RR> last time for each instance of an an ICU visit. So, code works
RR> great for stuff like that, but it would be nice to handle the
RR> initial pull of chart times for a date range in a simple query
RR> designer! Especially since I am leaving out the joins necessary
RR> to get patient account numbers, etc...!

We can exchange details by private mail. I would not call what I've
done a query designer, but from your example units and patient names
would come from database tables, selected in Squeak ListMorphs.

Time ranges come from a MonthMorph and the necessary joins are fixed
strings. After I've done it, I find it easy.

RR> Just wondering if someone has already done what I am thinking about!

Not sure but let's exchange mail.

Cheers,

Herbert

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-05T22:28:39Z

Hello Rob,

RR> This is going to sound really lame, but do you have any
RR> screenshots you can share? This sounds like a very useful

I send you a private mail, the lists have limits on the size of posts.

RR> What are you using for your sketches?

The objects from the ObjectCatalog in the World Menu. Lines, Texts
with coloured Backgrounds, Buttons. Here I would like that typing in
the air just creates a text. Have you come across the red Halo buttons
"Show handles" entry for lines (PolygonMorph)?

RR> What features do you use for notes? Workspaces for typing?
RR> Connectors?
Mainly texts, sometimes with border. Usually I copy an existing one
with the green halo button. Connectors where too heavyweight on
computing power when I tried them.

RR> Why 3.6? Does it have features that have been removed?
3.6 Full is just small and I want an image that starts fast.
Especially in production (physical goods) I encounter quite some
computers with USB1.1.

And I keep 3.6 around because it has "The worlds of Squeak" which
really is a showcase on what is possible with Squeak.

--
Cheers,

Herbert

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-05T22:06:14Z

Hello Rob:

I have been using Squeak for corporate presentation. I have effectively stopped using PowerPoint. As you suspected, I use the book morph and the stack morph for creating presentations. My Squeak presentations are much more effective and come across as creative than passive PowerPoint ones. However, I do find a lot of limitations in Squeak, owing to my own ignorance I think, they are as follows:

1. I tried animating my Squeak presentations using EToys but it is way too hard

2. I failed to run some Flash movies on Squeak, some months ago Edgar had suggested that older images support Flash but it didn't work for me. Maybe I failed to include the Balloon package and was trying to activate the FlashPlayer Morph. I lost interest in that at that point in time and left off my experiments.

3. Exporting my slides from a book morph and a stack morph is way too laborious, the way I do it. Usually, I save all my slides as Jpegs/PNGs and send them to people in a folder which they can view in any Windows/Linux image viewer with slide show capability. This approach renders my slides to be passive like PowerPoint but lot more aesthetic in look&feel. I tried to do this better but in vain. Any sugggestions?

4. Nowadays, I am pushing people to download Squeak and load my projects. But it is difficult to move corporate people from Windows/Mac's native applicaitons and freelancers from Adobe Flash/Photoshop.

But I must say that I have been sticking to Squeak as my authoring platform. I take notes using workspace and export it as txt files for further use. I use stack morphs to develop story boards (I am a writer, specialising in technology and economy.)

This may be too low-level for people on this mail-list. Please forgive me. If you have ideas for me, I will be grateful. (I intend to do some serious programming in the days to come. I have programmed in Fortran, Cobol, Pascal, C , Basic and used DBase IV and FoxBase. This is all between 1989 to 1994.)

Regards,
Prashanth Hebbar

On 7/5/08, Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell@...> wrote:

I've been seeing some messages fly by about people using Squeak like "Smart Paper." What is meant by this? Using the various presentation morphs and just projects and workspaces for a more visual, dynamic, note taking system?

Could anyone give examples of how they are using Squeak just as a general tool, not necessarily for programming per se, if this is the correct way to interpret this?

Just looking for uses I am not recognizing...

Rob
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Learning Squeak [Was "Smart Paper"?]

2008-07-05T18:57:45Z

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Steven Claflin <stevenclaflin@...> wrote:

Hi Rob,

I wanted to thank you for your email to the list and your struggles. I
am just beginning to learn about Squeak and being an old procedural
programmer (PDP-11), OOP in general is kind of backwards to my way of
thinking, and so I can identify with your feeling as though you are just
not online all the way. The first programming that I did that was at all
object oriented was in Visual Basic many years ago, and I can remember
thinking; "Ok, these buttons and windows and textboxes can react to
actions, but how do you start the whole thing going?" It's kind of
laughable now, but at the time I was used to: first you have the
computer do one thing, then the next thing, and so on... So its like I
was sitting there waiting for the program to do something and the
program was sitting there waiting for me to do something.

When I was a kid, all I ever wanted to learn was Assembly Language. I wanted to write my own OS, that was an interactive, lively, interpreted system. I only got as far as booting into protected mode with a keyboard, mouse, timer, and video driver which went straight into a split screen (text mode) debugger complete with disassembler. It actually still runs on x86 architecture, but, little did I know what was out there waiting...! I alway figure if I get far enough I would really enjoy the VM side of Smalltalk a lot.

I, too, am heavily experienced in VB. Still use it a lot (VBA) at work, just because Excel and Access are hard to beat as a "Business Language." (Although my dream system is a combination Database Browsing/Query engine that returns recordsets into a Smalltalk driven spreadsheet with a built in statistical package and a "process oriented" calculation engine! But, I digress...). Coming from the VB angle, though, I really like events, and have become quite enamored with Announcements. Maybe too much so, but it is what I always wanted in VB! (How many times did you hack returning an OBJECT from a "dialog"). However, learning Smalltalk has made me and my co-worker much better VB programmers nonetheless. We tend to just start with a Class now, and write lots of really small, stupid methods. The "browser" makes it a little harder to work through the code, but we can each sort of pick up the others work if we need to now and figure out what is going on. We are working on transitioning more and more to Squeak, but it's hard to beat Access right now for a utility that runs lots of queries, etc... (hence, my dream system!)

I am hoping that as I go through the material, ideas which aren't
immediately understandable will become so after getting more info. It's
hard to do that, because it makes me feel uncomfortable to feel as
though I'm not getting it. When I was going to school for my degree in
electronics there was a lot of that, and that turned out ok.

I studied Physics long ago (Ohio University, 1990). I am NOT a physicist, but it taught me how to think, experiment, problem solve. But as an electronics guy, you might understand how when you get to quantum mechanics in Physics everyone waves their magic wand and says, "and from here we have demonstrated that you can derive all of Chemistry..." Smalltalk is more like Chemistry, it seems. Yes, you CAN "derive" it all from basic principles (messages), but it is just so...wonderfully...messy. Makes me wonder why I didn't like Chemistry...

However, the best part of Physics (at least at OU), was that from the very beginning they said, "just believe what I tell you. It will make sense in the end." My last two quarters of Astrophysics were a blast! EVERYTHING came together...

And so, I am in "belief" mode...just keep moving forward, asking questions, etc... You see, I have the upper hand in knowing that a slow learner like myself can see it all come together at an undetermined point in the future! Sounds like you have had a similar experience.

Good luck, hopefully we'll get it. :-)

Thanks...you too. Let me know if I can help from a point of view that can understand what you are having a hard time with! I will rarely be much help to the guys who are building the tools we are using (except to get better about bug reporting), but I can likely help someone at a similar experience level. I am at the point now where my own classes make sense to me at least; trying to figure out what someone else did just isn't easy for me.

Take care,

Rob

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DLL api calls from Squeak v2

2008-07-05T17:11:24Z

Hi, is there a way to make API calls to arbitrary DLLs from Squeak projects based on v2 sources ?

I know that in v3 you can define a method which calls
<apicall: M module: 'D.dll'>,
where D is the dll, and M is the c-style definition of a method stored inside the DLL.
(This kind of statement can access any DLL, so the DLL doesn't need to be defined to be a loadable Squeak module with proper primitives).

I would like to do the same from v2, is it possible ?

Thanks.

PS: If there is a better place to search for this kind of info, please let me know also.

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-05T11:13:28Z

Hi Rob,

I wanted to thank you for your email to the list and your struggles. I
am just beginning to learn about Squeak and being an old procedural
programmer (PDP-11), OOP in general is kind of backwards to my way of
thinking, and so I can identify with your feeling as though you are just
not online all the way. The first programming that I did that was at all
object oriented was in Visual Basic many years ago, and I can remember
thinking; "Ok, these buttons and windows and textboxes can react to
actions, but how do you start the whole thing going?" It's kind of
laughable now, but at the time I was used to: first you have the
computer do one thing, then the next thing, and so on... So its like I
was sitting there waiting for the program to do something and the
program was sitting there waiting for me to do something.

I am hoping that as I go through the material, ideas which aren't
immediately understandable will become so after getting more info. It's
hard to do that, because it makes me feel uncomfortable to feel as
though I'm not getting it. When I was going to school for my degree in
electronics there was a lot of that, and that turned out ok.

Good luck, hopefully we'll get it. :-)

Steve

On Sat, 2008-07-05 at 09:56 -0400, Rob Rothwell wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@...>
> wrote:
> One version of smart paper is, I draw userinterfaces by just
> placing
> the elements into an empty project and place texts around them
> like
> the names to reference them, the message names they send an
> some
> general description of what they do. Did this on paper before.
>
> This is going to sound really lame, but do you have any screenshots
> you can share? This sounds like a very useful technique, but I don't
> think my brain is using Morphic that way. In fact, I don't think my
> brain is using Morphic at all!
>
>
> In one case where I did not need so much text around I
> gradually
> filled the sketch with life to have a prototype
>
> For many aspects of a development project I have several
> Squeak
> project with browsers open on the relevant methods and
> Workspaces. And
> I have sketches about the flow of some aspects of the
> software.
>
> What are you using for your sketches?
>
>
> For my project leading job I carry an 3.6 Squeak on a USB
> stick which
> I really use as a notetaker. I lead a road design software
> project
> where I have Squeak projects on technical, sales, customer and
> competition aspects.
>
> What features do you use for notes? Workspaces for typing?
> Connectors? More sketches? Why 3.6? Does it have features that
> have been removed?
>
>
> The last one is what I was talking about in my reply to
> Brenda's post
> in Squeak dev.
>
> Thank you for sharing. I have been trying to "study my history"
> lately, and am feeling very much like there are all these capabilities
> out there that I am definitely NOT taking advantage of! When I read,
> for example, that "The original [Augment] system is still in use today
> by Dr. Engelbart and the Bootstrap Alliance," I just have to think
> that we are all suffering from not maximizing the capabilities of the
> systems we already have!
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Rob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Beginners@...
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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-05T10:32:33Z

Rob Rothwell wrote:

*snip*

> I am in nearly the same place David is, except that I have asked all these
> questions myself already, and have gotten the same responses! I am SLOWLY
> learning Smalltalk, so I have seen others pick it up much faster through the
> same process. Anyway, I found a framework that made sense to ME (Aida) and
> started building SOMETHING. Then Squeak started to make more sense. It's a
> process, I think, NOT a recipe, and we are all wired differently.

I second that - think of a project and start to build and start to look.

I am getting used to using VisualWorks (after having used VSE at uni, VS
at my former job and Squeak in between for a bit) right now and I
thought, "my Seaside app needs a database - what do I use - ah hell,
lets use some simple CSV file. Oh, there is no CSV package, well lets
build one". That forced me to deal with Streams in VW (work differently
from what I knew) and the Filename hierarchy (very different to what I
knew).

But I think, that this is the only way to learn.

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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-05T07:41:31Z

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@...> wrote:

Hello everyone; this is just getting too interesting. It is like the classical Zen path to Enlightnment:

"How long will it take me?"

"10 years."

"No, I mean if I really try?"

"20 years."

"No, you don't understand...I'll try REALLY hard..."

"30 years."

I am in nearly the same place David is, except that I have asked all these questions myself already, and have gotten the same responses! I am SLOWLY learning Smalltalk, so I have seen others pick it up much faster through the same process. Anyway, I found a framework that made sense to ME (Aida) and started building SOMETHING. Then Squeak started to make more sense. It's a process, I think, NOT a recipe, and we are all wired differently.

Anyway, that would be my suggestion. Look at all the books, yes. Listen to what people are telling you...yes. But in your heart you KNOW that the ONLY way any of it is going to make sense is by USING it. It took me almost FOUR years before I could do that, but now I am doing "useful" work. Very, very, occasionally I can figure out out something within a "framework" by "reading it," as has been suggested to you. Mostly I am still just using the frameworks, much like you would in a traditional language. And, like any language, start from one example, get stuck, and if you can't read the code in a browser, the most amazing thing about Squeak is NOT the implementation, but the PEOPLE. If you can type fast, you'll get fast help!

Hello David,

DF> Squeak is a toy for academics and hobbyists to try out new ideas and
DF> explore computing at a higher-level. It wasn't designed for doing
DF> conventional application development and you won't find much support
DF> in Squeak for normal commercial programming. In fact, just the

Squeak is used in several commercial web apps, one example being gas
billing by Janko.

Janko, by they way, is a shear force of nature. If you use Aida and need help, he is contagious. I would be willing to show you around Aida due largely to all the help Janko has given me!

Then there are commercial apps in Squek which have nothing to do with
seaside or aida. Look at Squeak people for Tansel Ersavas' he has done
several Squeak apps.

I myself query databases with Squeak, partly using a neural network.
Then I generate csv and management always has people at hand to make
their reports in Excel and Word.

Have you written any "tools" for this? I have been doing some of this for very challenging information, but like the "easy documentation" and fast change ability of a visual query designer and the browsing ability of something like DbVisualizer. I have been fantasizing about a Squeak based database exploration tool that could design queries and "drop down" into Smalltalk collections for the really hard work.

A likely boring example follows:

Take, for example, our hospital chart times. Each time something is charted, we get a time stamp. We have studied the accuracy of these (particularly when they are back-dated) and found them to be tolerably accurate. What we NEED, though, is the arrival and discharge time PER UNIT. For example, a patient could flow like this:

Arrive ER
Leave ER
Arrive ICU
Leave ICU
Arrive PCU
Leave PCU
Arrive 3C
Leave 3C
Arrive ICU
Leave ICU

Where ER, ICU, PCU, 3C are just different units. It is quite common for patients to move back and forth among units depending on their condition.

Now, the EASY think for us would be if an arrival and discharge time was documented! This is a whole other topic about the documentation demands on nursing staff! So, for now, just assume we want to solve the problem given the above information. The problem you run into with any type of query grouping is that you run into the situation where you get the first FIRST ICU time and the last LAST ICU time in the example above, not the first and last time for each instance of an an ICU visit. So, code works great for stuff like that, but it would be nice to handle the initial pull of chart times for a date range in a simple query designer! Especially since I am leaving out the joins necessary to get patient account numbers, etc...!

Just wondering if someone has already done what I am thinking about!

You have a very valid point regarding office like user interfaces.
If that's required for your definition of 'conventional application
development' you're absolutely right.

Although, I have always pictured WxSqueak as a possible alternative for "conventional development," and have learned enough Smalltalk to go back to it and check it out again. It looks like a viable alternative to me to use my existing Domain Model objects from, say, an Aida application, and provide a native Windows view...

DF> For enterprise application development using Smalltalk, you are
DF> probably better off with a commercial Smalltalk.

Ask Qwaq or dabbledb about that.

Yes, but I think they have skills I do not! They can build the TOOLS I am using!

The other reasons against Squeak are in acceptance by management

I am lucky enough to work somewhere that I can use what gets the job done, and we are struggling financially, so "free" is good if the ROI does not suffer due to "lost productivity" using "lesser" tools. I'm NOT saying Squeak is "lesser," I'm saying we considered wether it was first (less stable, etc...). What I found was that the open source support system surrounding Squeak is superior to anything out there! You guys are just incredibly knowledgeable and very, very, willing to help!

Rob
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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-05T06:56:25Z

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@...> wrote:

One version of smart paper is, I draw userinterfaces by just placing
the elements into an empty project and place texts around them like
the names to reference them, the message names they send an some
general description of what they do. Did this on paper before.

This is going to sound really lame, but do you have any screenshots you can share? This sounds like a very useful technique, but I don't think my brain is using Morphic that way. In fact, I don't think my brain is using Morphic at all!

In one case where I did not need so much text around I gradually
filled the sketch with life to have a prototype

For many aspects of a development project I have several Squeak
project with browsers open on the relevant methods and Workspaces. And
I have sketches about the flow of some aspects of the software.

What are you using for your sketches?

For my project leading job I carry an 3.6 Squeak on a USB stick which
I really use as a notetaker. I lead a road design software project
where I have Squeak projects on technical, sales, customer and
competition aspects.

What features do you use for notes? Workspaces for typing? Connectors? More sketches? Why 3.6? Does it have features that have been removed?

The last one is what I was talking about in my reply to Brenda's post
in Squeak dev.

Thank you for sharing. I have been trying to "study my history" lately, and am feeling very much like there are all these capabilities out there that I am definitely NOT taking advantage of! When I read, for example, that "The original [Augment] system is still in use today by Dr. Engelbart and the Bootstrap Alliance," I just have to think that we are all suffering from not maximizing the capabilities of the systems we already have!

Thanks again,

Rob

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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-05T04:38:47Z

Claus Kick wrote:

>No one really has the time to go through every method
> to find out which is suitable and even then the commentary is not
> always very good.

What else can you do? Even for Java, you have to go through all the
Javadocs, first to find which Class suits your needs and then which
method is the correct one to use.
Basically, there should be a useful class comment for every class which
explains how to use what class for what.

Am i right in thinking these pages are like javadocs 'scraped' from an image at a point in time?
http://www.oldenbuettel.de/squeak-doku/class_index.html

If so, is it possible to rescrape them to give 'conventional'-looking documentation of current images?

...Stan

Re: more of a general smalltalk question

2008-07-05T04:28:36Z

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Allen <sean@...> writes:

Sean> but i'm using squeak as my 'really learn smalltalk' einvironment so...
Sean> can any suggest any good reading, books, websites, whatever for learning
Sean> the ins and outs of how exceptions, signals etc work in smalltalk. i'm
Sean> interested in both an 'end user' perspective as a start but getting into
Sean> the nitty gritty of the why of the implementation as well.

For me, the best way to understand the Exception class was to browse it,
browse references to it, and also to the subclasses, especially with something
like Seaside loaded that makes interesting uses of Exceptions to deal with
continuations. Seeing how it works in practice made it finally go click.

There's no education like source code. :)

--
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<merlyn@...> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-05T04:11:37Z

Hello David,

DF> Squeak is a toy for academics and hobbyists to try out new ideas and
DF> explore computing at a higher-level. It wasn't designed for doing
DF> conventional application development and you won't find much support
DF> in Squeak for normal commercial programming. In fact, just the

Squeak is used in several commercial web apps, one example being gas
billing by Janko.

Then there are commercial apps in Squek which have nothing to do with
seaside or aida. Look at Squeak people for Tansel Ersavas' he has done
several Squeak apps.

I myself query databases with Squeak, partly using a neural network.
Then I generate csv and management always has people at hand to make
their reports in Excel and Word.

You have a very valid point regarding office like user interfaces.
If that's required for your definition of 'conventional application
development' you're absolutely right.

DF> For enterprise application development using Smalltalk, you are
DF> probably better off with a commercial Smalltalk.

Ask Qwaq or dabbledb about that.

The other reasons against Squeak are in acceptance by management

Just didn't want to let this stand as you wrote it, it is a complex
topic which does not have such a general answer like you gave.

--
Cheers,

Herbert

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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-05T03:57:22Z

*snip*

> It seems to me though that even though in smalltalk/squeak it is
> possible to read all the code in the system, it is still a very poor
> and inefficient way of learning about any of the class libraries in
> Smalltalk. After looking up some of the code, I find I end up more
> confused than when I started.

It depends. One way to look at it is to see that looking at the code
helps you not to be confused my faulty or missing documentation.
Also, do not mix up Squeak with Smalltalk. There are other Smalltalk
dialects which are much better documented.

> SBE has a few pages on Morphic but the class library for smalltalk
> seems huge for a beginner like me.

I think the GUI part of Squeak is not documented very well, period.

>For example, after trying to look at
> the Graphics classes, there may be many ways to instantiate an object
> (I might be wrong, in that case I take back everything I have to say on
> the subject!!).

There probably are.

>No one really has the time to go through every method
> to find out which is suitable and even then the commentary is not
> always very good.

What else can you do? Even for Java, you have to go through all the
Javadocs, first to find which Class suits your needs and then which
method is the correct one to use.
Basically, there should be a useful class comment for every class which
explains how to use what class for what.

>Some of the methods do not appear to do anything
> useful (if I may say so) because they depend on the support provided by
> a whole series of other methods (and even classes) and states of
> variables.

How is that not useful? If everything is an object and everything is
done via messages, then everything has to happen in methods.
Perhaps you have not completely digested this fact.

I think what is missing in Squeak is the old public/private view that
Envy allowed: It did not hinder a programmer from using a private
method, but at least it showed which ones you should use, the public ones.

>In the end I might still not have learnt how the whole thing
> works! So my question is, is there any documentation on the complete
> class library for Squeak written in a more accessible style for the
> uninitiated?

Very likely, not.
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[Q] Best way of know when a object was added to the image

2008-07-05T03:49:20Z

I just "discover" Object DNU timeStamp.

I ask this because

loadKnowPackages
"UCodeLoader loadKnowPackages"
| obj loader req |
loader _ CodeLoader new.
loader baseURL: 'ftp.squeak.org/various_images/SqueakLight/SLupdates/'.

req := loader createRequestFor: 'KnowPackages.obz' in: HTTPLoader
default..

obj := loader readObject: req.

KnowPackages := obj

knowPackages
^KnowPackages

How I could know if KnowPackages is older as the file on the server ?

For curiosity, how we could know the "age" of all objects in the image ?

Edgar

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Re: "Smart Paper"?

2008-07-05T03:46:06Z

Hello Rob,

RR> I've been seeing some messages fly by about people using
RR> Squeak like "Smart Paper." What is meant by this? Using the
RR> various presentation morphs and just projects and workspaces for a
RR> more visual, dynamic, note taking system?

some of us use it for presentations. BookMorph even has a method whose
name suggests you can import powerpoint. I never used BookMorph except
for trying.

One version of smart paper is, I draw userinterfaces by just placing
the elements into an empty project and place texts around them like
the names to reference them, the message names they send an some
general description of what they do. Did this on paper before.

In one case where I did not need so much text around I gradually
filled the sketch with life to have a prototype

For many aspects of a development project I have several Squeak
project with browsers open on the relevant methods and Workspaces. And
I have sketches about the flow of some aspects of the software.

For my project leading job I carry an 3.6 Squeak on a USB stick which
I really use as a notetaker. I lead a road design software project
where I have Squeak projects on technical, sales, customer and
competition aspects.

The last one is what I was talking about in my reply to Brenda's post
in Squeak dev.

Cheers,

Herbert

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Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-04T23:12:50Z

David and everyone else,

Thanks for your input.

I won't get on my soapbox here and debate whether Smalltalk/Squeak is
suitable for anything. I'm just trying to find out about the language
and perhaps come to understand the OO paradigm. Some of you have
directed me to Squeak By Example (SBE) which I briefly looked at and
it really seems like a good beginners book.

It seems to me though that even though in smalltalk/squeak it is
possible to read all the code in the system, it is still a very poor
and inefficient way of learning about any of the class libraries in
Smalltalk. After looking up some of the code, I find I end up more
confused than when I started.

SBE has a few pages on Morphic but the class library for smalltalk
seems huge for a beginner like me. For example, after trying to look
at the Graphics classes, there may be many ways to instantiate an
object (I might be wrong, in that case I take back everything I have
to say on the subject!!). No one really has the time to go through
every method to find out which is suitable and even then the
commentary is not always very good. Some of the methods do not appear
to do anything useful (if I may say so) because they depend on the
support provided by a whole series of other methods (and even classes)
and states of variables. In the end I might still not have learnt how
the whole thing works! So my question is, is there any documentation
on the complete class library for Squeak written in a more accessible
style for the uninitiated?

Some of you might say that I should study Squeak more before
commenting. I guess I am trying to pre-empt things so that I don't go
down a path which eventually will lead me to too many dead ends.

Again thanks for all your comments and your interest in helping
someone out.

Stephen
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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-04T21:44:34Z

On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 09:38 -0400, David Zmick wrote:
> first of all, u\you should read Squeak By Example.
That's a good book for beginners; it's also available online. Note that
the part about building a user interface uses Morphic.

Ross

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"Smart Paper"?

2008-07-04T21:10:34Z

I've been seeing some messages fly by about people using Squeak like "Smart Paper." What is meant by this? Using the various presentation morphs and just projects and workspaces for a more visual, dynamic, note taking system?

Could anyone give examples of how they are using Squeak just as a general tool, not necessarily for programming per se, if this is the correct way to interpret this?

Just looking for uses I am not recognizing...

Rob
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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-04T20:50:12Z

Don't take what I wrote to be negative. I am greatly enjoying learning
Squeak and Smalltalk. It is a great personal amplifier. But, unless
you are into web development (as already mentioned), there isn't
really a business side to Squeak.
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Re: more of a general smalltalk question

2008-07-04T19:25:36Z

Squeak by example helped and still helps me

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Sean Allen <sean@...> wrote:

but i'm using squeak as my 'really learn smalltalk' einvironment so...

can any suggest any good reading, books, websites, whatever for learning the ins and outs
of how exceptions, signals etc work in smalltalk. i'm interested in both an 'end user'
perspective as a start but getting into the nitty gritty of the why of the implementation as well.

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Re: Totally dumbfounded!!

2008-07-04T14:26:23Z

Squeak is a toy for academics and hobbyists to try out new ideas and
explore computing at a higher-level. It wasn't designed for doing
conventional application development and you won't find much support
in Squeak for normal commercial programming. In fact, just the
opposite, Squeak (Smalltalk) de-emphasizes individual programs, in
favor of a more holistic system approach to computer interaction.
Commercial developers aren't the target audience. That is why the
widget set is great for building little games and crap for building a
database app. And that is OK by me.

For enterprise application development using Smalltalk, you are
probably better off with a commercial Smalltalk.

Just my 2 cents.

David
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