SpringSource App Server

[Burr Sutter-4]

I'm hoping this topic gets tons of passionate responses, well, perhaps not as many as WiPro (or whatever they are called) setting up shop in Atlanta and all of us about to get a pay cut. :-)

What is your level of excitement or disillusionment with the SpringSource Application Platform?
http://www.springsource.com/web/guest/products/suite/applicationplatform
On a scale of 1 to 5 where
1 = I hate it, it is the dumbest idea I ever heard of, the big vendors will teach the upstarts a lesson and kill them
5 = I love it, it is brilliant, where can I buy stock in SpringSource, this will make them rich

The TSS.com crowd has had a lot to say about this product offering and strategy move by SpringSource.  What do the real people doing real work, the folks in Atlanta, think about this?

Burr






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[Travis Bailey-2]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Personally, I am excited about Spring doing an App Server implementation because I like Spring code in general. (everything but Web Flow so far)
I am disillusioned because they are releasing it under the GPL v3 which discourages me from wanting to use it.

Regardless it will probably be useful for the community to see how they implemented OSGi with Equinoxe...
And I will hopefully do a test implementation sometime, but that will be more a matter of happenstance at this time.

 
Meh.  My few cents.

Travis Bailey
www.travisbailey.com
404.664.7782 (c)

"The greater the artist the greater the doubt. Perfect confidence is granted to the less talented as a consolation prize." - Robert Hughes

----- Original Message ----
From: Burr Sutter <burrsutter@...>
To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month) <ajug-members@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:09:40 PM
Subject: [ajug-members] SpringSource App Server

I'm hoping this topic gets tons of passionate responses, well, perhaps not as many as WiPro (or whatever they are called) setting up shop in Atlanta and all of us about to get a pay cut. :-)

What is your level of excitement or disillusionment with the SpringSource Application Platform?
http://www.springsource.com/web/guest/products/suite/applicationplatform
On a scale of 1 to 5 where
1 = I hate it, it is the dumbest idea I ever heard of, the big vendors will teach the upstarts a lesson and kill them
5 = I love it, it is brilliant, where can I buy stock in SpringSource, this will make them rich

The TSS.com crowd has had a lot to say about this product offering and strategy move by SpringSource.  What do the real people doing real work, the folks in Atlanta, think about this?

Burr

_______________________________________________
ajug-members mailing list
ajug-members@...
http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members

[Burr Sutter]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Thank you Travis. 

Not too many comments from the local crowd.  Suggests a lot of indifference to this pretty damn interesting new entry in our marketplace.  Maybe everybody else Atlanta is stuck on WebSphere due to corporate "standards" and just disillusioned in general. ;-)
Or perhaps the other 500 people on this list are just all on vacation today!

Are you concerns specifically about v3 of GPL?  After all Linux and MySQL are GPL.

Travis Bailey wrote:

Personally, I am excited about Spring doing an App Server implementation because I like Spring code in general. (everything but Web Flow so far)
I am disillusioned because they are releasing it under the GPL v3 which discourages me from wanting to use it.

Regardless it will probably be useful for the community to see how they implemented OSGi with Equinoxe...
And I will hopefully do a test implementation sometime, but that will be more a matter of happenstance at this time.

 
Meh.  My few cents.

Travis Bailey
www.travisbailey.com
404.664.7782 (c)

"The greater the artist the greater the doubt. Perfect confidence is granted to the less talented as a consolation prize." - Robert Hughes

----- Original Message ----
From: Burr Sutter burrsutter@...
To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month) ajug-members@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:09:40 PM
Subject: [ajug-members] SpringSource App Server

I'm hoping this topic gets tons of passionate responses, well, perhaps not as many as WiPro (or whatever they are called) setting up shop in Atlanta and all of us about to get a pay cut. :-)

What is your level of excitement or disillusionment with the SpringSource Application Platform?
http://www.springsource.com/web/guest/products/suite/applicationplatform
On a scale of 1 to 5 where
1 = I hate it, it is the dumbest idea I ever heard of, the big vendors will teach the upstarts a lesson and kill them
5 = I love it, it is brilliant, where can I buy stock in SpringSource, this will make them rich

The TSS.com crowd has had a lot to say about this product offering and strategy move by SpringSource.  What do the real people doing real work, the folks in Atlanta, think about this?

Burr

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[jhaile]

I largely work with Spring/Hibernate on top of Tomcat (although have used JBoss and Jetty a good bit as well).  

I'm excited about SpringSource App Server and its potential.  I think the Spring Framework helped bring about a more pick-and-choose, component-based approach to building enterprise applications, and it's adoption has helped drive the overall application server market to rethink how app servers should work.  I have a good bit of confidence that SpringSource will build a relatively light-weight component-based server that will make it easier to get enterprise apps up and running, while not bloating your application with unneeded services.  A lot of my confidence is due to the excellent quality, design, and documentation around most of their existing projects.

The problem with the current approach of building a webapp on top of just Tomcat is that it is difficult (or at least time consuming) to pick out and assemble all of the components you need in piecemeal form.  An app server helps to provide those components out of the box, and OSGi holds the promise of allowing them to smoothly integrate and only enable components that are required by your app.  I'm excited about the idea of just being able to deploy my code and have OSGi pull in the libraries and services that the app depends on.

I think that I will eventually play around with SSAP and could imagine us switching over to it instead of just Tomcat.  But at the same time there are no real features driving me to start testing with it immediately.  For now, my approach is probably to wait and see how it shapes up and what the feedback is from early adopters.  If I have time to test it out in the meantime, that's gravy.

I have no concerns about the license...but I also work for a startup, not a large, slow-moving corporation.

Jeremy Haile

On May 16, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Burr Sutter wrote:

Thank you Travis.  

Not too many comments from the local crowd.  Suggests a lot of indifference to this pretty damn interesting new entry in our marketplace.  Maybe everybody else Atlanta is stuck on WebSphere due to corporate "standards" and just disillusioned in general. ;-)
Or perhaps the other 500 people on this list are just all on vacation today!

Are you concerns specifically about v3 of GPL?  After all Linux and MySQL are GPL.

Travis Bailey wrote:

Personally, I am excited about Spring doing an App Server implementation because I like Spring code in general. (everything but Web Flow so far)
I am disillusioned because they are releasing it under the GPL v3 which discourages me from wanting to use it.

Regardless it will probably be useful for the community to see how they implemented OSGi with Equinoxe...
And I will hopefully do a test implementation sometime, but that will be more a matter of happenstance at this time.

 
Meh.  My few cents.

Travis Bailey
www.travisbailey.com
404.664.7782 (c)

"The greater the artist the greater the doubt. Perfect confidence is granted to the less talented as a consolation prize." - Robert Hughes

----- Original Message ----
From: Burr Sutter burrsutter@...
To: General AJUG membership forum (100-200 messages/month) ajug-members@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:09:40 PM
Subject: [ajug-members] SpringSource App Server

I'm hoping this topic gets tons of passionate responses, well, perhaps not as many as WiPro (or whatever they are called) setting up shop in Atlanta and all of us about to get a pay cut. :-)

What is your level of excitement or disillusionment with the SpringSource Application Platform?
http://www.springsource.com/web/guest/products/suite/applicationplatform
On a scale of 1 to 5 where 
1 = I hate it, it is the dumbest idea I ever heard of, the big vendors will teach the upstarts a lesson and kill them
5 = I love it, it is brilliant, where can I buy stock in SpringSource, this will make them rich

The TSS.com crowd has had a lot to say about this product offering and strategy move by SpringSource.  What do the real people doing real work, the folks in Atlanta, think about this?

Burr

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[Fabio Cepeda]

I wonder what people from Jboss thinks, maybe the same as Marc Fleury? http://www.thedelphicfuture.org/2008/04/springsources-application-server.html

Can they become the next monopoly in the app server market?  I think they have a fair shot at it because the great adoption of the framework and the other projects. Also modularity, bundles, and versioning could make easier the way we develop today.

Time will tell,

Greetings,

Fabio Cepeda

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[mike stittleburg]

Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a couple years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.

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[James Holmes-2]

We've been using AOP via Spring on some of the projects I've been working on. Nothing very exciting though, just some logging. AOP and JMX were both "hot" technologies a few years ago that got alot of attention, but I think the reason you don't hear much about them now is because they're mostly infrastructure technologies. They get used up front in a project and then are touched very little after that.

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, mike stittleburg <mstittleburg@...> wrote:

Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a couple years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.

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[mike stittleburg]

 

It seemed like the only good examples of AOP were either logging or transactions. I'm interested in using it for performance monitoring (capture method times).

-----Original Message-----
From: James Holmes [mailto:james@...]
Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:37 AM
To: ajug-members@...
Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj

We've been using AOP via Spring on some of the projects I've been working on. Nothing very exciting though, just some logging. AOP and JMX were both "hot" technologies a few years ago that got alot of attention, but I think the reason you don't hear much about them now is because they're mostly infrastructure technologies. They get used up front in a project and then are touched very little after that.

On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, mike stittleburg <mstittleburg@...> wrote:

Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a couple years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.

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[Alex Zhang-4]

Interestingly, I thought about the exact same thing last week, using
aop to profile my JEE apps deployed in JBoss.

The JBoss Profiler project seems not getting lots of attention
(probably because there is not even an actually release? another
chicken and egg thing). I will give JProfiler a shot if it doesn't
work I will jump into AOP.

One challenge of using AOP to do profiling is the post processing, how
to capture the stack trace (call hierarchy) and generate a nice
drill-down report.

Alex

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:31 AM, mike stittleburg
<mstittleburg@...> wrote:

>
> It seemed like the only good examples of AOP were either logging or
> transactions. I'm interested in using it for performance monitoring (capture
> method times).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Holmes [mailto:james@...]
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:37 AM
> To: ajug-members@...
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj
>
> We've been using AOP via Spring on some of the projects I've been working
> on. Nothing very exciting though, just some logging. AOP and JMX were both
> "hot" technologies a few years ago that got alot of attention, but I think
> the reason you don't hear much about them now is because they're mostly
> infrastructure technologies. They get used up front in a project and then
> are touched very little after that.
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, mike stittleburg
> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a couple
>> years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.
>> _______________________________________________
>> ajug-members mailing list
>> ajug-members@...
>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ajug-members mailing list
> ajug-members@...
> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>
>

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[Burr Sutter]

So far the comments here were fairly positive but were very limited.

The TSS crowd is normally fairly harsh so they are the wrong "benchmark" aside from the fact that all that public noise shows up in your Google searches and might dissuade you from selecting that solution.  Whenever I chose a new tech/product (just bought a camcorder) I do read all of the "negative" reviews to see if the points made apply to my use case.

If GPL is the biggest negative that people have...that one doesn't bother me personally UNLESS I'm an ISV (independent software vendor) who wishes to embed the technology as if it were just part of my finished product. If that were the case, I would have to consider sending SpringSource a check to pay for those runtimes.   GPL normally doesn't bother the average big business/enterprise IT since they are already using tools like Linux and MySQL.




Fabio Cepeda wrote:

I wonder what people from Jboss thinks, maybe the same as Marc Fleury? http://www.thedelphicfuture.org/2008/04/springsources-application-server.html

Can they become the next monopoly in the app server market?  I think they have a fair shot at it because the great adoption of the framework and the other projects. Also modularity, bundles, and versioning could make easier the way we develop today.

Time will tell,

Greetings,

Fabio Cepeda

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[Michael Campbell]

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:31 AM, mike stittleburg
<mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>
> It seemed like the only good examples of AOP were either logging or
> transactions. I'm interested in using it for performance monitoring (capture
> method times).


I've used Spring for this very thing.  Worked fine for me at the time.
 zero code instrumentation for a big win!

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[Peter Wagener]

I've used JProfiler quite a bit to profile an app within JBoss, and  
had good experiences with it.

The thing that worries me about a roll-your-own profiler via AOP is  
that you may end up seeing some of the data (i.e method timing), but  
you may not have any visibility into other things that could be  
harming your app's performance (i.e memory leaks, unexpected code  
paths, etc).  Profiling is really hard to do well, and for my money  
using someone else's experience (i.e the JProfiler folks) is well  
worth it.


Just my $0.02 --

Peter


On May 19, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Alex Zhang wrote:

> Interestingly, I thought about the exact same thing last week, using
> aop to profile my JEE apps deployed in JBoss.
>
> The JBoss Profiler project seems not getting lots of attention
> (probably because there is not even an actually release? another
> chicken and egg thing). I will give JProfiler a shot if it doesn't
> work I will jump into AOP.
>
> One challenge of using AOP to do profiling is the post processing, how
> to capture the stack trace (call hierarchy) and generate a nice
> drill-down report.
>
> Alex
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:31 AM, mike stittleburg
> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>
>> It seemed like the only good examples of AOP were either logging or
>> transactions. I'm interested in using it for performance monitoring  
>> (capture
>> method times).
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Holmes [mailto:james@...]
>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:37 AM
>> To: ajug-members@...
>> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj
>>
>> We've been using AOP via Spring on some of the projects I've been  
>> working
>> on. Nothing very exciting though, just some logging. AOP and JMX  
>> were both
>> "hot" technologies a few years ago that got alot of attention, but  
>> I think
>> the reason you don't hear much about them now is because they're  
>> mostly
>> infrastructure technologies. They get used up front in a project  
>> and then
>> are touched very little after that.
>>
>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, mike stittleburg
>> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a  
>>> couple
>>> years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ajug-members mailing list
>>> ajug-members@...
>>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ajug-members mailing list
>> ajug-members@...
>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ajug-members mailing list
> ajug-members@...
> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members

_______________________________________________
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[mike stittleburg]

yep, i've used jprofiler quite a bit when i used to do performance work. It
works pretty well but it's to
heavyweight for load testing. I tried JIP jiprof.sourceforge.net but it
still puts to much of a drag on system. Netbeans has
a profiler too (and it's free) and i might take a look at that.

thanks,
mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Wagener [mailto:peter@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:40 PM
To: ajug-members@...
Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj


I've used JProfiler quite a bit to profile an app within JBoss, and
had good experiences with it.

The thing that worries me about a roll-your-own profiler via AOP is
that you may end up seeing some of the data (i.e method timing), but
you may not have any visibility into other things that could be
harming your app's performance (i.e memory leaks, unexpected code
paths, etc).  Profiling is really hard to do well, and for my money
using someone else's experience (i.e the JProfiler folks) is well
worth it.


Just my $0.02 --

Peter


On May 19, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Alex Zhang wrote:

> Interestingly, I thought about the exact same thing last week, using
> aop to profile my JEE apps deployed in JBoss.
>
> The JBoss Profiler project seems not getting lots of attention
> (probably because there is not even an actually release? another
> chicken and egg thing). I will give JProfiler a shot if it doesn't
> work I will jump into AOP.
>
> One challenge of using AOP to do profiling is the post processing, how
> to capture the stack trace (call hierarchy) and generate a nice
> drill-down report.
>
> Alex
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:31 AM, mike stittleburg
> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>
>> It seemed like the only good examples of AOP were either logging or
>> transactions. I'm interested in using it for performance monitoring
>> (capture
>> method times).
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Holmes [mailto:james@...]
>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:37 AM
>> To: ajug-members@...
>> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj
>>
>> We've been using AOP via Spring on some of the projects I've been
>> working
>> on. Nothing very exciting though, just some logging. AOP and JMX
>> were both
>> "hot" technologies a few years ago that got alot of attention, but
>> I think
>> the reason you don't hear much about them now is because they're
>> mostly
>> infrastructure technologies. They get used up front in a project
>> and then
>> are touched very little after that.
>>
>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, mike stittleburg
>> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a
>>> couple
>>> years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ajug-members mailing list
>>> ajug-members@...
>>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ajug-members mailing list
>> ajug-members@...
>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ajug-members mailing list
> ajug-members@...
> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members

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[lhazlewood]

You might enjoy YourKit too: http://www.yourkit.com/

I think its one of the better ones.

(I have no affiliation to any profiling software company ;) ).

Cheers,

Les

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 4:16 PM, mike stittleburg
<mstittleburg@...> wrote:

>
> yep, i've used jprofiler quite a bit when i used to do performance work. It
> works pretty well but it's to
> heavyweight for load testing. I tried JIP jiprof.sourceforge.net but it
> still puts to much of a drag on system. Netbeans has
> a profiler too (and it's free) and i might take a look at that.
>
> thanks,
> mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Wagener [mailto:peter@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:40 PM
> To: ajug-members@...
> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj
>
>
> I've used JProfiler quite a bit to profile an app within JBoss, and
> had good experiences with it.
>
> The thing that worries me about a roll-your-own profiler via AOP is
> that you may end up seeing some of the data (i.e method timing), but
> you may not have any visibility into other things that could be
> harming your app's performance (i.e memory leaks, unexpected code
> paths, etc).  Profiling is really hard to do well, and for my money
> using someone else's experience (i.e the JProfiler folks) is well
> worth it.
>
>
> Just my $0.02 --
>
> Peter
>
>
> On May 19, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Alex Zhang wrote:
>
>> Interestingly, I thought about the exact same thing last week, using
>> aop to profile my JEE apps deployed in JBoss.
>>
>> The JBoss Profiler project seems not getting lots of attention
>> (probably because there is not even an actually release? another
>> chicken and egg thing). I will give JProfiler a shot if it doesn't
>> work I will jump into AOP.
>>
>> One challenge of using AOP to do profiling is the post processing, how
>> to capture the stack trace (call hierarchy) and generate a nice
>> drill-down report.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:31 AM, mike stittleburg
>> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> It seemed like the only good examples of AOP were either logging or
>>> transactions. I'm interested in using it for performance monitoring
>>> (capture
>>> method times).
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: James Holmes [mailto:james@...]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 8:37 AM
>>> To: ajug-members@...
>>> Subject: Re: [ajug-members] aspectj
>>>
>>> We've been using AOP via Spring on some of the projects I've been
>>> working
>>> on. Nothing very exciting though, just some logging. AOP and JMX
>>> were both
>>> "hot" technologies a few years ago that got alot of attention, but
>>> I think
>>> the reason you don't hear much about them now is because they're
>>> mostly
>>> infrastructure technologies. They get used up front in a project
>>> and then
>>> are touched very little after that.
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 10:14 PM, mike stittleburg
>>> <mstittleburg@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there using AspectJ? Seemed like AOP was a big thing a
>>>> couple
>>>> years ago but doesn't seem to be active lately.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ajug-members mailing list
>>>> ajug-members@...
>>>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ajug-members mailing list
>>> ajug-members@...
>>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ajug-members mailing list
>> ajug-members@...
>> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ajug-members mailing list
> ajug-members@...
> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ajug-members mailing list
> ajug-members@...
> http://www.ajug.org/mailman/listinfo/ajug-members
>

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