Some questions on the dvdauthor xml

[José Alburquerque-3]

Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
thinking of using gtkmm).  I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.

I've been working on the basic classes sort of trying to reflect the xml
of dvdauthor but I'm sort of not clear on some things.  Here are my
questions:

1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
separate PGC's?

2) can a Menu PGC have more than one VOB? (more than one video?)

3) Is there a limit to how many VOB's are in a PGC?

4) How are the <video> and <audio> tags of <titles> and <menus> related
to the VOB's in the PGC's? As I understand it, there is a limit of one
<video> tag and eight <audio> tags for each <menus> and <titles> group.
Does this limit the VOB's in the PGC's?

finally:

5) I understand what the "chapter" parameter of the <cell> tag does
(I've looked on the list), but what is the "program" parameter for?  Is
that so that the cell can be distinguished as a menu to jump to?

I'm really serious about trying to implement something nice, though I'm
not sure how long it will take to develop.  I've already began
developing some basic classes, but I feel I need to understand a bit
better what I'm working with.

Would any of you be kind enough to answer as much as you can?  I'd
appreciate it so much.  Thanks.


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[Wolfgang Wershofen]

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José Alburquerque schrieb:

> Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
> of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
> thinking of using gtkmm).  I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
> I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
> and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
> hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.
>
> 1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
> separate PGC's?
>

If you put several vobs into one pgc they are sort of concatenated
together. A <pgc> marks a separate title that you can jump to from a
menu and all vobs within it are played in succession.
If you put each vob into it's own pgc, you form separate titles. Each
one can be jumped to from a menu and after playing the title, you may
return the the menu or jump anywhere else.
So it's up to what you want to acheive with your pgc layout.
The third entity concerning organization within a DVD is the titleset.
You don't need to specify separate titlesets on a DVD as long as all
your vobs have the same characteristics (video and audio format), but
as soon as you are dealing with different contents (eg. a 16:9 movie
and a 4:3 home-video) you _must_ put them into different titlesets.

> 2) can a Menu PGC have more than one VOB? (more than one video?)
AFAIK yes.
>
> 3) Is there a limit to how many VOB's are in a PGC?
I think the limitation is not by vob but by cell. AFAIR the maximum
number of cells in a pgc is 256 (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Each vob consists of at least one cell so the maximum vob count may
also not exceed 256, but the limit can be much lower, depending on how
many cells (or chapters) you define per vob.
>
> 4) How are the <video> and <audio> tags of <titles> and <menus> related
> to the VOB's in the PGC's? As I understand it, there is a limit of one
> <video> tag and eight <audio> tags for each <menus> and <titles> group.
> Does this limit the VOB's in the PGC's?
As I already wrote in point 1, all vobs in one titleset (that is
within one <titles></titles> or <menus></menus> bracket) must have the
same video and audio formats. This is why only one <video>-tag is
allowed/needed to describe the characteristics for all vobs in that
titleset. And you need up to eight <audio>-tags as a vob may contained
this maximum number of audio tracks with different languages and/or
formats.
This does not limit the number of vobs in the pgc, but it limits the
combination of vob files of different formats.
>
> finally:
>
> 5) I understand what the "chapter" parameter of the <cell> tag does
> (I've looked on the list), but what is the "program" parameter for?  Is
> that so that the cell can be distinguished as a menu to jump to?
I found this post from Scott (the author of dvdauthor) in the list
archives:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=9fd0f9250604191735r68cfc5e1n85794721f29f5ab0%40mail.gmail.com
Obviously, it's not that clear, what the advantage of a program in
favour of a cell is...
>
> Would any of you be kind enough to answer as much as you can?  I'd
> appreciate it so much.  Thanks.
De nada. ;-)

saludos
Wolfgang

- --
Geek by nature, Linux by choice

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[Anne Wilson-5]

On Wednesday 22 Aug 2007, Wolfgang Wershofen wrote:

> José Alburquerque schrieb:
> > Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
> > of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
> > thinking of using gtkmm).  I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
> > I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
> > and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
> > hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.
> >
> > 1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
> > separate PGC's?
>
> If you put several vobs into one pgc they are sort of concatenated
> together. A <pgc> marks a separate title that you can jump to from a
> menu and all vobs within it are played in succession.

I like to use vobs within a pgc as chapters - i.e. on a holiday video I'd put
each location or day into a separate vob.  As Wolfgang said, they will play
straight through, but I can jump to the start of each location.  I prefer
this for my own videos rather than chapters of 5 or 10 minutes.

Perhaps it would be possible for your front-end to allow choice in this?  The
only front-end I've tried insisted on marking every 5 minutes.  I didn't use
it again.

Anne


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[José Alburquerque-3]

Anne Wilson wrote:

> On Wednesday 22 Aug 2007, Wolfgang Wershofen wrote:
>  
>> José Alburquerque schrieb:
>>    
>>> Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
>>> of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
>>> thinking of using gtkmm).  I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
>>> I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
>>> and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
>>> hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.
>>>
>>> 1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
>>> separate PGC's?
>>>      
>> If you put several vobs into one pgc they are sort of concatenated
>> together. A <pgc> marks a separate title that you can jump to from a
>> menu and all vobs within it are played in succession.
>>    
>
> I like to use vobs within a pgc as chapters - i.e. on a holiday video I'd put
> each location or day into a separate vob.  As Wolfgang said, they will play
> straight through, but I can jump to the start of each location.  I prefer
> this for my own videos rather than chapters of 5 or 10 minutes.
>
> Perhaps it would be possible for your front-end to allow choice in this?  The
> only front-end I've tried insisted on marking every 5 minutes.  I didn't use
> it again.
>
> Anne
>  
>  

Ann:

I'm aiming for a gui that allows working with a dvdauthor xml file
"visually" and logically.  What I'm trying to do is allow the user to
insert/move/delete/edit elements such as title sets, titles, menus,
chapters, etc. within dvd "projects".  Each project will allow one VMGM
and various title sets which in turn will have one <menus></menus> group
and several <titles></titles> group if it is a title set.

What I'm trying to iron out and thanks to Wolfgang has cleared up
significantly, is what goes on with the <video.../> tag and the various
<audio../> tags of the <menus></menus> and <titles></titles> groups and
the various vob elements ("<vob.../>") of each title and/or menu (pgc's).

What you're asking for would seem very achievable since it would be a
matter of selecting the pgc (as I understand it, a title or a menu) and
then inserting the various vob's (which would also be "elements" that
can be "edited").

The idea is to make things simple, logical and versatile (any xml that
dvdauthor understands should be achievable).  I'm implementing the base
classes and then will move to the gui as soon as I can generate good xml
from the classes.  I will certainly keep everyone posted as I move along
and would also appreciate observations and suggestions.

Thanks for the suggestion.  :-)

-Jose

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[José Alburquerque-3]

Wolfgang Wershofen wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> José Alburquerque schrieb:
>  
>> Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
>> of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
>> thinking of using gtkmm).  I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
>> I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
>> and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
>> hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.
>>
>> 1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
>> separate PGC's?
>>
>>    
> If you put several vobs into one pgc they are sort of concatenated
> together. A <pgc> marks a separate title that you can jump to from a
> menu and all vobs within it are played in succession.
> If you put each vob into it's own pgc, you form separate titles. Each
> one can be jumped to from a menu and after playing the title, you may
> return the the menu or jump anywhere else.
> So it's up to what you want to acheive with your pgc layout.
> The third entity concerning organization within a DVD is the titleset.
> You don't need to specify separate titlesets on a DVD as long as all
> your vobs have the same characteristics (video and audio format), but
> as soon as you are dealing with different contents (eg. a 16:9 movie
> and a 4:3 home-video) you _must_ put them into different titlesets.
>
>  
>> 2) can a Menu PGC have more than one VOB? (more than one video?)
>>    
> AFAIK yes.
>  
>> 3) Is there a limit to how many VOB's are in a PGC?
>>    
> I think the limitation is not by vob but by cell. AFAIR the maximum
> number of cells in a pgc is 256 (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
> Each vob consists of at least one cell so the maximum vob count may
> also not exceed 256, but the limit can be much lower, depending on how
> many cells (or chapters) you define per vob.
>  
>> 4) How are the <video> and <audio> tags of <titles> and <menus> related
>> to the VOB's in the PGC's? As I understand it, there is a limit of one
>> <video> tag and eight <audio> tags for each <menus> and <titles> group.
>> Does this limit the VOB's in the PGC's?
>>    
> As I already wrote in point 1, all vobs in one titleset (that is
> within one <titles></titles> or <menus></menus> bracket) must have the
> same video and audio formats. This is why only one <video>-tag is
> allowed/needed to describe the characteristics for all vobs in that
> titleset. And you need up to eight <audio>-tags as a vob may contained
> this maximum number of audio tracks with different languages and/or
> formats.
> This does not limit the number of vobs in the pgc, but it limits the
> combination of vob files of different formats.
>  
>> finally:
>>
>> 5) I understand what the "chapter" parameter of the <cell> tag does
>> (I've looked on the list), but what is the "program" parameter for?  Is
>> that so that the cell can be distinguished as a menu to jump to?
>>    
> I found this post from Scott (the author of dvdauthor) in the list
> archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=9fd0f9250604191735r68cfc5e1n85794721f29f5ab0%40mail.gmail.com
> Obviously, it's not that clear, what the advantage of a program in
> favour of a cell is...
>  
>> Would any of you be kind enough to answer as much as you can?  I'd
>> appreciate it so much.  Thanks.
>>    
> De nada. ;-)
>
> saludos
> Wolfgang
>
> - --
> Geek by nature, Linux by choice
>
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
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> =NHyV
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>
>
>  

This is really helpful information!  BTW, "Saludos" to you too (how do
you know Spanish? ;-)).

-Jose

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[José Alburquerque-3]

Anne Wilson wrote:

> Thanks for telling me this, José.  I'm picking up dvdauthor as I use it.  
> About three months ago I created my first disk that had multiple menus - the
> top level had three options, with each of them having more choices.   I
> needed a lot of help from the list, but was very pleased with the result.
>
> If it's possible to get a gui to handle this sort of thing there will be great
> interest, I'm sure :-)
>
> Anne
>  

Glad to hear.  As I said, I'll post from time to time to ask questions
and let everyone know how development is going.

-Jose


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[Florin Andrei]

Anne Wilson wrote:
>
> I like to use vobs within a pgc as chapters - i.e. on a holiday video I'd put
> each location or day into a separate vob.  As Wolfgang said, they will play
> straight through, but I can jump to the start of each location.  I prefer
> this for my own videos rather than chapters of 5 or 10 minutes.

Here's another technique.

I configured dvgrab to start a new DV file after each scene change. That
means, every time the camcorder has been stop/started, that's a new
scene and therefore a new DV file.

Then the transcoding script creates one big title with chapters, each
chapter representing one scene. So, each DV file is translated as a
chapter within the unique title on the disk.

I don't care how the VOBs are actually created, as long as the
title/chapter structure is the way I want it to be.

These are the scripts that implement this method:

http://florin.myip.org/soft/conv-dvd/

--
Florin Andrei

http://florin.myip.org/

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[José Alburquerque-3]

Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 12:29 -0400, José Alburquerque wrote:
>  
>> Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
>> of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
>> thinking of using gtkmm).
>>    
>
> You may (or may not) get some use from the source of my program
> VideoLink <http://womble.decadent.org.uk/software/videolink/>.
>
>  
>> I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
>> I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
>> and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
>> hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.
>>
>> I've been working on the basic classes sort of trying to reflect the xml
>> of dvdauthor but I'm sort of not clear on some things.  Here are my
>> questions:
>>
>> 1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
>> separate PGC's?
>>    
>
> The term "VOB" has several different meanings.  A <vob> *element*
> describes a source video file which is copied into the DVD image as one
> or more cells.  A PGC (program chain) is a series of cells which is
> normally played in order.  It is possible to have multiple PGCs in a
> menu or title, but dvdauthor does not support this so a <pgc> element
> defines a menu or title, depending on the containing element.
>
> So the difference is in whether the video files result in one or
> multiple menus/titles.
>
>  
>> 2) can a Menu PGC have more than one VOB? (more than one video?)
>>    
>
> Yes.
>
>  
>> 3) Is there a limit to how many VOB's are in a PGC?
>>    
>
> A PGC can have up to 255 cells.  A <vob> element results in at least one
> cell.  The chapters attribute and the <cell> element can define more
> cells (the beginning of a chapter must be the beginning of a cell).
>
>  
>> 4) How are the <video> and <audio> tags of <titles> and <menus> related
>> to the VOB's in the PGC's? As I understand it, there is a limit of one
>> <video> tag and eight <audio> tags for each <menus> and <titles> group.
>> Does this limit the VOB's in the PGC's?
>>    
>
> Yes, the video and audio attributes have to be consistent within a
> domain.  The domains are the First-Play PGC, the Video Manager (defined
> by the <vmgm> element), the menus of each titleset, and the titles of
> each titleset.  You can see that dvdauthor's element structure
> corresponds to this.
>
>  
>> finally:
>>
>> 5) I understand what the "chapter" parameter of the <cell> tag does
>> (I've looked on the list), but what is the "program" parameter for?  Is
>> that so that the cell can be distinguished as a menu to jump to?
>>    
>
> A program is a unit of video that can be jumped to by random or shuffle
> play.  A chapter contains one or more programs.  I don't think this
> intermediate level of organisation is often used.
>
>  
>> I'm really serious about trying to implement something nice, though I'm
>> not sure how long it will take to develop.  I've already began
>> developing some basic classes, but I feel I need to understand a bit
>> better what I'm working with.
>>    
> <snip>
>
> I suggest you consider buying the Unofficial DVD Specifications e-book.
> It has helped me in understanding what dvdauthor does and how to use it
> properly.
>
> Ben.
>
>  

Thanks for pointers Ben.  I am making sense of your explanations as we
speak and I also saw a link on your page to some of the same
explanations you've given me.  I'll go through them and see how best to
apply your explanations.  I may buy the book, but right now, I think
I'll just go with the dvdauthor docs to see if I can get something
working.  As things move along I'll see if it's necessary.  Thanks again.

-Jose

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[José Alburquerque-3]

Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 15:49 -0400, José Alburquerque wrote:
> <snip>
>  
>> Ann:
>>
>> I'm aiming for a gui that allows working with a dvdauthor xml file
>> "visually" and logically.
>>    
>
> I would urge you not to expose all the complexity and restrictions of
> the DVD video format, because they're actually a bit of a pain.
>
> For example, if you allow multiple titles in a titleset then you have to
> ensure that they have consistent A/V attributes.  Do you want to have to
> write the code to check for that?  Do you want to bother your users with
> that?  In fact, unless you want to be able to jump between titles, you
> can just put each title in its own titleset.  You can have 99 titles on
> a disc regardless of how many titlesets you use.
>
>  

At this stage, I don't see this as very complex (so far :-)).  I really
want to give as much flexibility as possible for experienced users
also.  For regular users, I'll "highlight" the  title to show that it is
inconsistent with titleset a/v settings.  I may allow a re-encode
process for these, but I think it will help users understand things better.

I'm aiming for something both novices and experience users can use alike.

> Similarly, why does the user care about VMGM versus titleset menus?  I
> think the purpose of the separation is only to allow titlesets to be
> authored separately.  If you're not going to support that, why bother
> the user with the distinction?
>
>  
Again, I just want to allow the users to evolve as they make dvd's.  As
they advance, they may want the extra functionality, don't you think?

> (You do have to do some tricky code generation to work around the
> restrictions on direct jumps.  But I already solved that problem. :-)
>
>  
This is something I don't quite understand yet, but I hope to also grow
as I develop.  This may be something I'll have to ask about as I
develop. :-)

>> What I'm trying to do is allow the user to
>> insert/move/delete/edit elements such as title sets, titles, menus,
>> chapters, etc. within dvd "projects".  Each project will allow one VMGM
>> and various title sets which in turn will have one <menus></menus> group
>> and several <titles></titles> group if it is a title set.
>>    
>
> By the way, if you are going to model the DVD video structure in full,
> note that each menu domain can have multiple "language units".  Each
> <menus> element defines a single language unit.
>
>  

Thanks for pointing this out. :-)

> <snip>
>  
>> What you're asking for would seem very achievable since it would be a
>> matter of selecting the pgc (as I understand it, a title or a menu) and
>> then inserting the various vob's (which would also be "elements" that
>> can be "edited").
>>    
>
> What would be very neat would be an interface like that in A/V editors
> for scrubbing through the input video files for a title and editing
> chapter marks graphically.
>
> Ben.
>
>  

This is also something that may be achievable as I develop.  Right now,
I'll try to get something basic that allows generating dvdauthor xml.  
I'm thinking that adding chapters could  be some sort of  "dialog" that
shows the title and allows inserting of various chapters via some sort
of input (like an "Insert Chapter Every XXX seconds" button or something
like that).  Again, I'm working on the basics, but this would be
something that the gui would handle.

I noticed that your project seems to work some with gtkmm.  Maybe you'd
like to help when I get to the gui?  I haven't registered the project at
sourceforge.net, but if it looks promising (after I get through some of
the basics), I hope to register it and then maybe you might want to help
some.  I'd appreciate help as I develop also. :-)

-Jose

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[Ben Hutchings-3]

On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 19:15 -0400, José Alburquerque wrote:

> Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 15:49 -0400, José Alburquerque wrote:
> > <snip>
> >  
> >> Ann:
> >>
> >> I'm aiming for a gui that allows working with a dvdauthor xml file
> >> "visually" and logically.
> >>    
> >
> > I would urge you not to expose all the complexity and restrictions of
> > the DVD video format, because they're actually a bit of a pain.
> >
> > For example, if you allow multiple titles in a titleset then you have to
> > ensure that they have consistent A/V attributes.  Do you want to have to
> > write the code to check for that?  Do you want to bother your users with
> > that?  In fact, unless you want to be able to jump between titles, you
> > can just put each title in its own titleset.  You can have 99 titles on
> > a disc regardless of how many titlesets you use.
> >
> >  
> At this stage, I don't see this as very complex (so far :-)).  I really
> want to give as much flexibility as possible for experienced users
> also.  For regular users, I'll "highlight" the  title to show that it is
> inconsistent with titleset a/v settings.  I may allow a re-encode
> process for these, but I think it will help users understand things better.
>
> I'm aiming for something both novices and experience users can use alike.

With respect, I don't think you can serve everyone in one program.
There are already many front-ends to dvdauthor, serving different types
of content and different groups of users.

> > Similarly, why does the user care about VMGM versus titleset menus?  I
> > think the purpose of the separation is only to allow titlesets to be
> > authored separately.  If you're not going to support that, why bother
> > the user with the distinction?
> >
> >  
> Again, I just want to allow the users to evolve as they make dvd's.  As
> they advance, they may want the extra functionality, don't you think?

I think most users want a program that "just works" and produces a nice
looking interface to a few videos, and later on they may want to add
chapter marks and animated menus.  (They may also want to do video
editing, but that's the job of a separate program.)

So far as I can see, there's no benefit to the user from dealing with
titlesets or the VMGM or programs, unless they want interactivity beyond
simple navigation - which I suspect is beyond the intended scope of your
GUI, and in the general case is going to be frustrating to program
through a GUI.

<snip>
> I noticed that your project seems to work some with gtkmm.

Yes, though not in any very interesting way.

By the way, I found that my VideoLink web page was out of date, as I had
released a new version to Debian but forgot to upload it to my own web
site.  The current version is 1.2.1 and is on my web site now.

> Maybe you'd
> like to help when I get to the gui?  I haven't registered the project at
> sourceforge.net, but if it looks promising (after I get through some of
> the basics), I hope to register it and then maybe you might want to help
> some.  I'd appreciate help as I develop also. :-)

I don't have a whole lot of spare time for programming, but I might be
able to provide a little help.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Never attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by stupidity.


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[José Alburquerque-3]

Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 19:15 -0400, José Alburquerque wrote:
>  
>> At this stage, I don't see this as very complex (so far :-)).  I really
>> want to give as much flexibility as possible for experienced users
>> also.  For regular users, I'll "highlight" the  title to show that it is
>> inconsistent with titleset a/v settings.  I may allow a re-encode
>> process for these, but I think it will help users understand things better.
>>
>> I'm aiming for something both novices and experience users can use alike.
>>    
>
> With respect, I don't think you can serve everyone in one program.
> There are already many front-ends to dvdauthor, serving different types
> of content and different groups of users.
>
>  

You're right and I hope that it doesn't come off as if I'm trying to
serve every user.  In all honesty, I just feel like there could be one
that leans a bit more towards the logic of the dvdauthor xml format.  I
know that there other gui's and I respect them; from my point of view
(I'm a bit logical), I think it'd be nice to use the logic provided by
the dvdauthor xml to work with dvd projects.  If it reaches some
audiences, I'm sure it wont affect the usefulness of other gui's; I
think it will just enhance productivity overall all.

>>> Similarly, why does the user care about VMGM versus titleset menus?  I
>>> think the purpose of the separation is only to allow titlesets to be
>>> authored separately.  If you're not going to support that, why bother
>>> the user with the distinction?
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>> Again, I just want to allow the users to evolve as they make dvd's.  As
>> they advance, they may want the extra functionality, don't you think?
>>    
>
> I think most users want a program that "just works" and produces a nice
> looking interface to a few videos, and later on they may want to add
> chapter marks and animated menus.  (They may also want to do video
> editing, but that's the job of a separate program.)
>
>  

I've seen a few that "just work".  mandvd, for example does exactly what
you're saying, but it isn't as sensitive to more complicated formats.

> So far as I can see, there's no benefit to the user from dealing with
> titlesets or the VMGM or programs, unless they want interactivity beyond
> simple navigation - which I suspect is beyond the intended scope of your
> GUI, and in the general case is going to be frustrating to program
> through a GUI.
>
> <snip>
>  
No it's not beyond the scope of the intended gui.  It is exactly why I
want to include all this.  I want to allow more flexibility.  The gui
will be aimed at those that want to make intricate dvd's using a point
and click interface and at the same time making it possible for
inexperienced users to also make good quality dvd's if they don't mind
working with the logical structure of a dvd.

At this point (the planning/early stage), I really don't see it as very
difficult to provide all this functionality through a gui.  I admit, I
haven't even looked at how to implement the gui (I'm only working on the
basic logic), but I still think it's possible.  If I get stuck, I'll
probably change my mind, but I honestly think it can be done.

Again, I'm not trying to please everyone, I'm just hoping to make a
"different" gui, based on the logic of the dvdauthor xml using gtkmm
(which works well in a gnome desktop, but should work with desktops that
have the gtkmm libraries also).

Listen, I really appreciate your comments.  I hope that I'm not being
unreasonably stubborn, but I feel this is how I want to go.  I haven't
done a lot, but if I get somewhere, I'll make it available and then you
can give me more comments.

If others also think differently I'm willing to listen as well.  Thanks.


Sincerely
Jose

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[José Alburquerque-3]

Ben Hutchings wrote:

> On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 15:49 -0400, José Alburquerque wrote:
> <snip>
>  
>> Ann:
>>
>> I'm aiming for a gui that allows working with a dvdauthor xml file
>> "visually" and logically.
>>    
>
> I would urge you not to expose all the complexity and restrictions of
> the DVD video format, because they're actually a bit of a pain.
>
>  

You know, Ben, I've thought about this and I sort of can see your point
on this.  If there's too much detail, it can be discouraging to users.  
It looks like I have to be careful to add as many features as I can but
also keep things as simple as possible to not bog the user down.  I must
apologize for being so adamant without fully considering what you had
said first.  I'm thinking of making things a bit simpler than what I
started with for users.  I still want the flexibility, but I'll try to
make things as "automatic" as possible so the user is not held back by
the functionality.

In the next couple of weeks I'll attempt to register the project so that
I can set up a mailing list and deal with comments.  When I do, I'd
appreciate any additional comments that you might have.  With the
permission of the list, I'll submit a quick post to let you and others  
know.

BTW, the following link also has a bunch of maximums:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61254&highlight=maximum+i 
<http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61254&highlight=maximum+i>

Can you confirm them?  Again, sorry for not fully considering your
comments before replying.  Thanks.

Sincerely
Jose

> For example, if you allow multiple titles in a titleset then you have to
> ensure that they have consistent A/V attributes.  Do you want to have to
> write the code to check for that?  Do you want to bother your users with
> that?  In fact, unless you want to be able to jump between titles, you
> can just put each title in its own titleset.  You can have 99 titles on
> a disc regardless of how many titlesets you use.
>
> Similarly, why does the user care about VMGM versus titleset menus?  I
> think the purpose of the separation is only to allow titlesets to be
> authored separately.  If you're not going to support that, why bother
> the user with the distinction?
>
> (You do have to do some tricky code generation to work around the
> restrictions on direct jumps.  But I already solved that problem. :-)
>
>  
>> What I'm trying to do is allow the user to
>> insert/move/delete/edit elements such as title sets, titles, menus,
>> chapters, etc. within dvd "projects".  Each project will allow one VMGM
>> and various title sets which in turn will have one <menus></menus> group
>> and several <titles></titles> group if it is a title set.
>>    
>
> By the way, if you are going to model the DVD video structure in full,
> note that each menu domain can have multiple "language units".  Each
> <menus> element defines a single language unit.
>
> <snip>
>  
>> What you're asking for would seem very achievable since it would be a
>> matter of selecting the pgc (as I understand it, a title or a menu) and
>> then inserting the various vob's (which would also be "elements" that
>> can be "edited").
>>    
>
> What would be very neat would be an interface like that in A/V editors
> for scrubbing through the input video files for a title and editing
> chapter marks graphically.
>
> Ben.
>
>  

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[José Alburquerque-3]

Wolfgang Wershofen wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> José Alburquerque schrieb:
>  
>> Hi fellow dvdauthor users.  I hope everyone is fine.  I'm thinking
>> of developing a respectable gtk front-end to dvdauthor (actually I'm
>> thinking of using gtkmm).  I've been perusing all the docs on dvdauthor
>> I can find (on the net, on the dvdauthor site and in the mailing list)
>> and I think I understand most of it, but I do have some questions I was
>> hoping some of you on this list might be able to answer.
>>
>> 1) What is the difference between having VOB's in one PGC as opposed to
>> separate PGC's?
>>
>>    
> If you put several vobs into one pgc they are sort of concatenated
> together. A <pgc> marks a separate title that you can jump to from a
> menu and all vobs within it are played in succession.
> If you put each vob into it's own pgc, you form separate titles. Each
> one can be jumped to from a menu and after playing the title, you may
> return the the menu or jump anywhere else.
> So it's up to what you want to acheive with your pgc layout.
> The third entity concerning organization within a DVD is the titleset.
> You don't need to specify separate titlesets on a DVD as long as all
> your vobs have the same characteristics (video and audio format), but
> as soon as you are dealing with different contents (eg. a 16:9 movie
> and a 4:3 home-video) you _must_ put them into different titlesets.
>
>  
>> 2) can a Menu PGC have more than one VOB? (more than one video?)
>>    
> AFAIK yes.
>  
>> 3) Is there a limit to how many VOB's are in a PGC?
>>    
> I think the limitation is not by vob but by cell. AFAIR the maximum
> number of cells in a pgc is 256 (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
> Each vob consists of at least one cell so the maximum vob count may
> also not exceed 256, but the limit can be much lower, depending on how
> many cells (or chapters) you define per vob.
>  

One more question on this (if you or anyone can answer :-)):  In the
following link some maximums are listed in table form:

http://www.authoringware.com/spec&compare.htm 
<http://www.authoringware.com/spec&compare.htm>

I noticed that the maximum number of chapters / VTS is 999 and the
number of Cells / VTS (menu) is 255 (right most column).  I was thinking
of using cells for chapters all the time (because it can be done
programmatically).  Would this be wrong to do?  Are chapters and cells
different?  I'm referring to the difference between the following:

<vob file="file.mpg" chapters="chapter-list"/>

and:

<vob file="file.mpg">
<cell start="chap.1 start" end="chap.1 end" chapter = "1" program =
"0"></cell>
<cell start="chap.2 start" end="chap.2 end" chapter = "1" program =
"0"></cell>
...
</vob>

Any comments?  Thanks.

-Jose

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