Smarty?

[Benjamin.Gonzales]

A curiosity.
Zend_Layout is becoming better and does not need any extra template.

Smarty (created by PHP), does no longer has a future? How can we say that this discontinued? I can say

Benjamín

[Karol Grecki]

Smarty was made obsolete by MVC and proper use of CSS. You can cache pages using Zend_Cache. There no point using Smarty anymore. Some people have legacy projects and still need to use it but I'd say it has no future in modern web development.

Karol

Benjamin.Gonzales wrote:

A curiosity.
Zend_Layout is becoming better and does not need any extra template.

Smarty (created by PHP), does no longer has a future? How can we say that this discontinued? I can say

Benjamín

[Jani Hartikainen]

I'm having a hard time seeing how a template engine was made obsolete
by a pattern that existed even before it, or by a stylesheet language..

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:56:42 +0300, Karol Grecki <kgrecki@...> wrote:

>
> Smarty was made obsolete by MVC and proper use of CSS. You can cache  
> pages
> using Zend_Cache. There no point using Smarty anymore. Some people have
> legacy projects and still need to use it but I'd say it has no future in
> modern web development.
>
> Karol
>

[AmirBehzad Eslami-3]

A Template Engine, such as Smarty, is useful when you're about to share your
templates among people. For example, suppose that you're creating a new
Blog-Provider system, where users can edit their blog templates. You can't
allow these people to insert php codes directly into their templates. How can
you avoid this? By using a template engine. Smarty, PHPTAL, etc.

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:47 AM, Jani Hartikainen <jani.hartikainen@...> wrote:

I'm having a hard time seeing how a template engine was made obsolete
by a pattern that existed even before it, or by a stylesheet language..

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:56:42 +0300, Karol Grecki <kgrecki@...> wrote:

Smarty was made obsolete by MVC and proper use of CSS. You can cache pages
using Zend_Cache. There no point using Smarty anymore. Some people have
legacy projects and still need to use it but I'd say it has no future in
modern web development.

Karol

--
Kind regards,
-behzad

[Karol Grecki]

PHP MVC frameworks gained popularity fairly recently, it's irrelevant when this pattern was "invented". Also developers and designers got better in separating content from presentation. It didn't happen overnight, those technologies and tools matured gradually, so did people skills. Nowadays web applications are build quite differently than few years ago.

Karol

Jani Hartikainen wrote:

I'm having a hard time seeing how a template engine was made obsolete
by a pattern that existed even before it, or by a stylesheet language..

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:56:42 +0300, Karol Grecki <[e-mail]> wrote:

>
> Smarty was made obsolete by MVC and proper use of CSS. You can cache  
> pages
> using Zend_Cache. There no point using Smarty anymore. Some people have
> legacy projects and still need to use it but I'd say it has no future in
> modern web development.
>
> Karol
>

[Micah Gersten]

You can get the same effect by storing config setting in a database.

Thank you,
Micah Gersten
onShore Networks
Internal Developer
http://www.onshore.com



AmirBehzad Eslami wrote:

> A Template Engine, such as Smarty, is useful when you're about to
> share your
> templates among people. For example, suppose that you're creating a new
> Blog-Provider system, where users can edit their blog templates. You can't
> allow these people to insert php codes directly into their templates.
> How can
> you avoid this? By using a template engine. Smarty, PHPTAL, etc.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:47 AM, Jani Hartikainen
> <jani.hartikainen@... <mailto:jani.hartikainen@...>> wrote:
>
>     I'm having a hard time seeing how a template engine was made obsolete
>     by a pattern that existed even before it, or by a stylesheet
>     language..
>
>
>     On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:56:42 +0300, Karol Grecki
>     <kgrecki@... <mailto:kgrecki@...>> wrote:
>
>
>         Smarty was made obsolete by MVC and proper use of CSS. You can
>         cache pages
>         using Zend_Cache. There no point using Smarty anymore. Some
>         people have
>         legacy projects and still need to use it but I'd say it has no
>         future in
>         modern web development.
>
>         Karol
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> -behzad

[Jani Hartikainen]

I think what behzad said about the blogs applies. I don't think something
can be claimed to be obsolete just because it has a different markup than  
what
you're used to, or what you prefer. Also, some languages can't be embedded  
into
HTML like you can do with PHP, so in those you have to use a template  
engine.

I don't really know what Smarty has to do with separating content and  
presentation
either. Or PHP in general... I thought that was HTML and CSS.


On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:35:20 +0300, Karol Grecki <kgrecki@...> wrote:

>
> PHP MVC frameworks gained popularity fairly recently, it's irrelevant  
> when
> this pattern was "invented". Also developers and designers got better in
> separating content from presentation. It didn't happen overnight, those
> technologies and tools matured gradually, so did people skills. Nowadays  
> web
> applications are build quite differently than few years ago.
>
> Karol
>
>

[Karol Grecki]

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand here. Smarty was created with specific goals in mind, mainly making cooperation between developers and designers easier. It creates extra presentation layer so designers don't have to deal with files containing PHP code. But this is exactly what CSS is for, designers can use external stylesheets to completely change look and layout of a page. As a developer all you need is serve content with simple markup and you don't need a template engine to achieve that, PHP will do just fine. Smarty gained popularity before CSS was widely adopted and was definitely a useful tool back then, but things changed. Now we have MVC web frameworks, CSS layouts, unobtrusive JavaScript and so on... Smarty is a dinosaur.

Of course this is only my opinion and you're free to disagree, but this conversation is offtopic and I'd rather stop it here.

Karol

Jani Hartikainen wrote:

I think what behzad said about the blogs applies. I don't think something
can be claimed to be obsolete just because it has a different markup than  
what
you're used to, or what you prefer. Also, some languages can't be embedded  
into
HTML like you can do with PHP, so in those you have to use a template  
engine.

I don't really know what Smarty has to do with separating content and  
presentation
either. Or PHP in general... I thought that was HTML and CSS.


On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:35:20 +0300, Karol Grecki <[e-mail]> wrote:

>
> PHP MVC frameworks gained popularity fairly recently, it's irrelevant  
> when
> this pattern was "invented". Also developers and designers got better in
> separating content from presentation. It didn't happen overnight, those
> technologies and tools matured gradually, so did people skills. Nowadays  
> web
> applications are build quite differently than few years ago.
>
> Karol
>
>

[AmirBehzad Eslami-3]

What's Smarty provides over the following lines?

index.php
===============
$tpl = array(
// .. some data to be displayed in template
);
include_once "template.phtml";

template.phtml
===============
<html>
<img src="asdasd">
<?= $tpl ?>
<br />
</html>

As you see, I separated programmers' and designers' lands without Smarty.
What actually Smarty provides is an new language to be used in Views. This
has security benefits when you want to share your views outside of your
company.

Read this:
http://gigaom.com/2007/11/26/wordpress-themes-security-problems/

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:29 AM, Karol Grecki <kgrecki@...> wrote:

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand here. Smarty was created with
specific goals in mind, mainly making cooperation between developers and
designers easier. It creates extra presentation layer so designers don't
have to deal with files containing PHP code. But this is exactly what CSS is
for, designers can use external stylesheets to completely change look and
layout of a page. As a developer all you need is serve content with simple
markup and you don't need a template engine to achieve that, PHP will do
just fine. Smarty gained popularity before CSS was widely adopted and was
definitely a useful tool back then, but things changed. Now we have MVC web
frameworks, CSS layouts, unobtrusive JavaScript and so on... Smarty is a
dinosaur.

Of course this is only my opinion and you're free to disagree, but this
conversation is offtopic and I'd rather stop it here.

Karol

Jani Hartikainen wrote:
>
> I think what behzad said about the blogs applies. I don't think something
> can be claimed to be obsolete just because it has a different markup than
> what
> you're used to, or what you prefer. Also, some languages can't be embedded
> into
> HTML like you can do with PHP, so in those you have to use a template
> engine.
>
> I don't really know what Smarty has to do with separating content and
> presentation
> either. Or PHP in general... I thought that was HTML and CSS.
>
>
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:35:20 +0300, Karol Grecki <kgrecki@...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> PHP MVC frameworks gained popularity fairly recently, it's irrelevant
>> when
>> this pattern was "invented". Also developers and designers got better in
>> separating content from presentation. It didn't happen overnight, those
>> technologies and tools matured gradually, so did people skills. Nowadays
>> web
>> applications are build quite differently than few years ago.
>>
>> Karol
>>
>>
>
>

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Smarty--tp18537490p18540063.html

Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
Kind regards,
-behzad

[Benjamin.Gonzales]

       
Smarty is PHP4, and does not take advantage of OOP and PHP5.

Here is a very interesting link
http://hasin.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/once-upon-a-time-there-was-smarty/

[mbneto]

I do not agree.   The syntax of smarty is much easier to the designer that using the phtml with echo etc.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Benjamin.Gonzales <iadvmc@...> wrote:

A curiosity.
Zend_Layout is becoming better and does not need any extra template.

Smarty (created by PHP), does no longer has a future? How can we say that
this discontinued? I can say

Benjamín
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Smarty--tp18537490p18537490.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[Tobias Gies]

folks, do we really need another religious war about whether or not smarty is good or bad?

Best regards
Tobias

--
Religious wars: Fights between adult people about who has the cooler imaginary friend.

2008/7/19 mbneto <mbneto@...>:

I do not agree.   The syntax of smarty is much easier to the designer that using the phtml with echo etc.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Benjamin.Gonzales <iadvmc@...> wrote:

A curiosity.
Zend_Layout is becoming better and does not need any extra template.

Smarty (created by PHP), does no longer has a future? How can we say that
this discontinued? I can say

Benjamín
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Smarty--tp18537490p18537490.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

[Jani Hartikainen]

Indeed we don't. But perhaps a well argumented discussion ;)
I took this to my blog (codeutopia.net) since it's really getting
kind of off-topic here I think.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:07:40 +0300, Tobias Gies  
<tobiasgies@...> wrote:

> folks, do we really need another religious war about whether or not  
> smarty is good or bad?
>
> Best regards
> Tobias
>

[Benjamin.Gonzales]

Zend Framework -> Zend Company (creators of php)
Samarty -> Zend Company (creators of php)

For the company Zend, no longer drives Samrty, gives no maintenance and are not plans to migrate to PHP5?

My goal is not to create a religious war, is known its views and possible applications and coexistence with the framework, thank everyone for their comments.

Someone from the company Zend I can answer?

PS: forgiveness for my English

Benjamín Gonzales

Benjamin.Gonzales wrote:

A curiosity.
Zend_Layout is becoming better and does not need any extra template.

Smarty (created by PHP), does no longer has a future? How can we say that this discontinued? I can say

Benjamín

[Matthew Weier O'Phinney-3]

-- Benjamin.Gonzales <iadvmc@...> wrote
(on Saturday, 19 July 2008, 10:53 AM -0700):

> Zend Framework -> Zend Company (creators of php)
> Samarty -> Zend Company (creators of php)
>
> For the company Zend, no longer drives Samrty, gives no maintenance and are
> not plans to migrate to PHP5?
>
> My goal is not to create a religious war, is known its views and possible
> applications and coexistence with the framework, thank everyone for their
> comments.
>
> Someone from the company Zend I can answer?

Umm... Zend did not create Smarty and has never maintained the library;
if you look at the copyright, it's actually "New Digital Group, Inc.".
It is a community driven project that operates in parallel to ZF and has
no relation to ZF. You would need to ask the developers of Smarty what
the status of maintenance and PHP 5 migration are. (BTW, from what I can
see, they appear to have new releases about once a year, and primarily
bugfix/security patch releases.)

> PS: forgiveness for my English
>
> Benjamín Gonzales
>
>
> Benjamin.Gonzales wrote:
> >
> > A curiosity.
> > Zend_Layout is becoming better and does not need any extra template.
> >
> > Smarty (created by PHP), does no longer has a future? How can we say that
> > this discontinued? I can say

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Software Architect       | matthew@...
Zend Framework           | http://framework.zend.com/