Re: website

[Miguel Freitas]

On 8/1/05, Darren Salt <linux@...> wrote:
> [xine_www, tag "experimental2"]
> >>> Is there an installation of all the hot stuff I see going into CVS?
> >> Yes, but it's not publicly visible (and it's impractical to make it so).
> >> Perhaps it (and a new database for it) should be installed on
> >> experimental.xinehq.de?
>
> > I am all for it. Who has the administrative powers to do so?
>
> Er, Siggi, I think... CC'ing.

i think we should make a plan to upgrade our main site to one of the
so called experimental branches as soon as possible. i believe the
most important thing is not getting everything right at the first try
(of course most of the new site must be functional so users may still
download, read faq, post bugs...), but rather having somebody with
willingness to maintain and fix issues. imho Darren, being an active
and competent developer would be a great choice.

with this lack of feedback he might soon lose his interest in working
at the web site, just like Stephen's efforts...

Darren, your test site works fine here (so does
experimental.xinehq.de). but i prefer that old xinehq.de top banner
than the new graphics in your navigation bar. as a programmer, i think
we better leave the graphics part to the graphics designer ;-)

Miguel


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[Darren Salt]

I demand that Miguel Freitas may or may not have written...

> On 8/1/05,

What? *That* long ago? I don't think so...

> Darren Salt <linux@...> wrote:
>> [xine_www, tag "experimental2"]
>>>>> Is there an installation of all the hot stuff I see going into CVS?
>>>> Yes, but it's not publicly visible (and it's impractical to make it so).
>>>> Perhaps it (and a new database for it) should be installed on
>>>> experimental.xinehq.de?
>>> I am all for it. Who has the administrative powers to do so?
>> Er, Siggi, I think... CC'ing.

> i think we should make a plan to upgrade our main site to one of the
> so-called experimental branches as soon as possible.

Probably, yes...

> i believe the most important thing is not getting everything right at the
> first try (of course most of the new site must be functional so users may
> still download, read faq,

That's possible ATM.

> post bugs...),

That's Sourceforge's problem ;-)

> but rather having somebody with willingness to maintain and fix issues.
> imho Darren, being an active and competent developer would be a great
> choice.

That I can certainly do. (The database will need to be recreated; who does
that doesn't really matter too much.)

> with this lack of feedback he might soon lose his interest in working at
> the web site, just like Stephen's efforts...

I did let it slide a bit, yes ;-)

> Darren, your test site works fine here (so does experimental.xinehq.de).
> but i prefer that old xinehq.de top banner than the new graphics in your
> navigation bar.

You'll still get the old bar if you're using a browser without CSS support.
The reason why I'm not using it (with CSS) is because it just doesn't fit
into my current design. (Neither does IE, but it seems that a few fairly
simple changes should mostly cure that.)

If anybody wants to design something to replace the fairly quick-and-simple
menu images - ideally some which don't require any significant stylesheet
changes! - that'd be useful. (The image's file size will be taken into
account.)

And don't forget the source files for the images! :-)

> as a programmer, i think we better leave the graphics part to the graphics
> designer ;-)

Probably ;-)

--
| Darren Salt | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
| Debian,     | s zap,tartarus,org            | Northumberland
| RISC OS     | @                             | Toon Army
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[Michael Roitzsch]

Hi,

I don't want Darren's website-overhaul to die, so let's make some  
actual plans on how to deploy this and how to make the migration as  
smooth as possible.

My suggestion for the first step would be to get it into our CVS and  
have a public installation somewhere (preferably on xinehq.de, maybe  
newsite.xinehq.de) which we can point our users to for testing. Auto-
syncing this installation from CVS would be great. We could then  
collect user opinions on this list and start hacking on it  
collaboratively in CVS until we think it is ready to make the final  
switch. (Hopefully this won't be too far away, with all the hard work  
Darren has already put into it.) Maybe some users would also like to  
contribute graphics or design improvements.

I have recently started to learn PHP myself, so I can probably lend a  
hand, too.

Michael



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[Darren Salt]

I demand that Michael Roitzsch may or may not have written...

> I don't want Darren's website-overhaul to die, so let's make some actual
> plans on how to deploy this and how to make the migration as smooth as
> possible.

> My suggestion for the first step would be to get it into our CVS

  $ cvs -d... co -t experimental2 xine_www

> and have a public installation somewhere (preferably on xinehq.de, maybe
> newsite.xinehq.de) which we can point our users to for testing.

Agreed. The content of the current database will need to be adjusted somewhat
before import into the new one, and a dump of the current db would help :-)

It may be that the current site can handle the bandwidth requirements (more
information needed). James - if you're happy with this, creation of
xine.tartarus.org will help, and newsite.xinehq.de can then be pointed at it.

> Auto-syncing this installation from CVS would be great.

If it stays on tartarus.org, we (me, James) should be able to handle that.

> We could then collect user opinions on this list and start hacking on it
> collaboratively in CVS until we think it is ready to make the final switch.
> (Hopefully this won't be too far away, with all the hard work Darren has
> already put into it.) Maybe some users would also like to contribute
> graphics or design improvements.

That'd be good. (Maybe I should pull in the "vote" area of the current
site...?)

> I have recently started to learn PHP myself, so I can probably lend a hand,
> too.

The test site is currently using PHP 4.1.2.

--
| Darren Salt | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
| Debian,     | s zap,tartarus,org            | Northumberland
| RISC OS     | @                             | Toon Army
|   <URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/> (PGP 2.6, GPG keys)

"... using his strength. And that is his strength, his strength."


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[Michael Roitzsch]

Hi Darren,

>> My suggestion for the first step would be to get it into our CVS
>
>   $ cvs -d... co -t experimental2 xine_www

Oh! That's good.

> greed. The content of the current database will need to be adjusted  
> somewhat before import into the new one, and a dump of the current  
> db would help :-)

Who can provide that?

>> Auto-syncing this installation from CVS would be great.
>
> If it stays on tartarus.org, we (me, James) should be able to  
> handle that.
>
>> Maybe some users would also like to contribute graphics or design  
>> improvements.
>
> That'd be good. (Maybe I should pull in the "vote" area of the current
> site...?)

I would also like to try myself on some design, if I find the time. A  
vote would indeed be cool, if we have enough contributions.

>> I have recently started to learn PHP myself, so I can probably  
>> lend a hand, too.
>
> The test site is currently using PHP 4.1.2.

I learned PHP5, but PHP 4.x should be close to a subset of this, right?

Michael



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[Darren Salt]

I demand that Michael Roitzsch may or may not have written...

>>> My suggestion for the first step would be to get it into our CVS
>>   $ cvs -d... co -t experimental2 xine_www

> Oh! That's good.

Surely you noticed at least /some/ of the CVS commits ;-)

>> The content of the current database will need to be adjusted somewhat
>> before import into the new one, and a dump of the current db would help
>> :-)

> Who can provide that?

Siggi... Cc'ing (again) in case of lack of subscription to this list.

(Siggi:

>>> Auto-syncing this installation from CVS would be great.
>> If it stays on tartarus.org, we (me, James) should be able to handle that.
>>> Maybe some users would also like to contribute graphics or design
>>> improvements.
>> That'd be good. (Maybe I should pull in the "vote" area of the current
>> site...?)

> I would also like to try myself on some design, if I find the time. A vote
> would indeed be cool, if we have enough contributions.

Right. I'll get that added.

And we need some testing of the login stuff. BTW, should we keep the old
voting requirement (login required) or do something else? If something else,
then I'll hide the login link.

>>> I have recently started to learn PHP myself, so I can probably lend a
>>> hand, too.
>> The test site is currently using PHP 4.1.2.

> I learned PHP5, but PHP 4.x should be close to a subset of this, right?

I think so. The documentation (as found in the Debian phpdoc package) covers
PHP 4 and 5 and generally does mention when a function was added or modified,
so there should be no problem there.

--
| Darren Salt | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
| Debian,     | s zap,tartarus,org            | Northumberland
| RISC OS     | @                             | Toon Army
|   <URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/progs.packages.html>

"Bother", said Pooh, as he scrambled his partition table.


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[Siggi Langauf]

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005, Darren Salt wrote:

>>> before import into the new one, and a dump of the current db would help
>>> :-)
>
>> Who can provide that?
>
> Siggi... Cc'ing (again) in case of lack of subscription to this list.

Actually, I am subscribed to -docs, and I'll finally have some time for
the web site tomorrow...

> (Siggi:
>>>> Auto-syncing this installation from CVS would be great.
>>> If it stays on tartarus.org, we (me, James) should be able to handle that.
>>>> Maybe some users would also like to contribute graphics or design
>>>> improvements.
>>> That'd be good. (Maybe I should pull in the "vote" area of the current
>>> site...?)
>
>> I would also like to try myself on some design, if I find the time. A vote
>> would indeed be cool, if we have enough contributions.
>
> Right. I'll get that added.
>
> And we need some testing of the login stuff. BTW, should we keep the old
> voting requirement (login required) or do something else? If something else,
> then I'll hide the login link.

Definitely keep the login requirement. There's hardly another way to keep
people from voting several times.

More on this tomorrow...

  -siggi

--
A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion.
Q: Why is top posting bad?


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[Michael Roitzsch]

Hi Darren,

> Surely you noticed at least /some/ of the CVS commits ;-)

Now that you mention it, yes I did.

> And we need some testing of the login stuff. BTW, should we keep  
> the old voting requirement (login required) or do something else?  
> If something else, then I'll hide the login link.

Apart from voting and administration, is the login used for anything  
else?

Michael



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[Siggi Langauf]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Michael Roitzsch wrote:

>> Surely you noticed at least /some/ of the CVS commits ;-)
>
> Now that you mention it, yes I did.
>
>> And we need some testing of the login stuff. BTW, should we keep the old
>> voting requirement (login required) or do something else? If something
>> else, then I'll hide the login link.
>
> Apart from voting and administration, is the login used for anything else?

Currently: no.
Well, there were some provisions to let users select a website theme,
which gets used as soon as they log in, and there were plans to use the
login for our own bug tracker, which never was deployed. But these were
only plans...

Cheers,
  Siggi

--
A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion.
Q: Why is top posting bad?


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[Michael Roitzsch]

Hi,

>> Apart from voting and administration, is the login used for  
>> anything else?
>
> Currently: no.
> Well, there were some provisions to let users select a website  
> theme, which gets used as soon as they log in, and there were plans  
> to use the login for our own bug tracker, which never was deployed.  
> But these were only plans...

I was thinking if it would be a good idea to cut down on the  
administration section of the website and manage the news in a  
similar way new package releases are currently managed: A file in CVS  
(probably XML) to which one can add the news. Benefit: News go  
through the testing website and can be checked for correctness before  
being synced to the real website.

Of course we still need the login to trigger the syncing.

Michael



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[Darren Salt]

I demand that Siggi Langauf may or may not have written...

> On Wed, 5 Oct 2005, Darren Salt wrote:
>>>> before import into the new one, and a dump of the current db would help
>>>> :-)
>>> Who can provide that?
>> Siggi... Cc'ing (again) in case of lack of subscription to this list.

> Actually, I am subscribed to -docs,

This is good...

> and I'll finally have some time for the web site tomorrow...

Right. A database dump *would* be handy - I could populate the news section,
for a start... :-)

[snip]
>> And we need some testing of the login stuff. BTW, should we keep the old
>> voting requirement (login required) or do something else? If something
>> else, then I'll hide the login link.

> Definitely keep the login requirement. There's hardly another way to keep
> people from voting several times.

Will do.

--
| Darren Salt | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
| Debian,     | s zap,tartarus,org            | Northumberland
| RISC OS     | @                             | Toon Army
|   <URL:http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/progs.packages.html>

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[James Aylett-2]

On Mon, Oct 03, 2005 at 07:48:11PM +0100, Darren Salt wrote:

> It may be that the current site can handle the bandwidth
> requirements (more information needed). James - if you're happy with
> this, creation of xine.tartarus.org will help, and newsite.xinehq.de
> can then be pointed at it.

Happy in principle, but I'll need some kind of figures to be
certain. It's more to do with whether the box can take it than whether
the bandwidth is available.

Surely newsite.xinehq.de could be IN A straight to ixion's ip address,
and I can VirtualHost it in from there? The alternative is a CNAME,
which is messy.

Cheers,
James

--
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  James Aylett                                                  xapian.org
  james@...                               uncertaintydivision.org


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[Darren Salt]

I demand that Michael Roitzsch may or may not have written...

>>> Apart from voting and administration, is the login used for anything
>>> else?

>> Currently: no.
>> Well, there were some provisions to let users select a website theme,
>> which gets used as soon as they log in, and there were plans to use the
>> login for our own bug tracker, which never was deployed. But these were
>> only plans...

> I was thinking if it would be a good idea to cut down on the administration
> section of the website and manage the news in a similar way new package
> releases are currently managed: A file in CVS (probably XML) to which one
> can add the news. Benefit: News go through the testing website and can be
> checked for correctness before being synced to the real website.

With this, there's a potential update race if somebody else is modifying
other parts of the web site. As things stand, new news items are
automatically checked for well-formedness (if not validity); a preview page
shouldn't be too hard to add.

Also, the site update code needs to be altered to do partial updates - this
is needed anyway for the files in data/xml (where the above race is already
possible). Now, where did I put that "to do" list...

[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington,
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| RISC OS     | @                             | Toon Army
|   Let's keep the pound sterling

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[Michael Roitzsch]

Hi,

>> I was thinking if it would be a good idea to cut down on the  
>> administration section of the website and manage the news in a  
>> similar way new package releases are currently managed: A file in  
>> CVS (probably XML) to which one can add the news. Benefit: News go  
>> through the testing website and can be checked for correctness  
>> before being synced to the real website.
>
> With this, there's a potential update race if somebody else is  
> modifying other parts of the web site. As things stand, new news  
> items are automatically checked for well-formedness (if not  
> validity); a preview page shouldn't be too hard to add.

When I did the last release, I thought this could actually be more  
convenient. One already has to go through the xine_www CVS when doing  
a release, so why not handling news in the same way.

Michael



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