Re: jOrgan 3.3 Beta (John Beach)-2.x ain't all that bad!

[Les Knoll]

AMEN!  CAN I HEAR SOMEONE SAY AMEN!!!

One thing, though, John, you might want to go to the SLIGHT upgrade to 2.4 because if you have, or will ever consider having a completely remote console, the 2.4 solves the then existant 'bug' of the piston setter button not being able to be remote controlled by MIDI signals as in 2.3.5. This is ESSENTIAL to a remote console!

With 2.4, You can also implement the ONLY fully remote SAMS combination action that is field proven (geez, you'd think I was SELLING the darn thing!). It has been (somewhat) fully documented in earlier posts. YES, it is a relative pain in the (select favorite body part here) to set up since you need to essentially set up three sets of stop tabs, But when you're done, baby, you're home free! It WORKS, and does NOT hang up. The only problem is you may get some funky combinations 'set up' for you depending if you turn off your console or your computer first. The answer, a general cancel. It is like a 'Father Confessor' when you first fire your rig up, and if you rig it up right, it resets EVERYTHING. (Could call it a reset or boot-up piston, too)

There is also a way in 2.4 (or 2.3.5 for that matter) to eliminate the synthesizer-like response of the 'variation' control of tremulants. In the variation system, hold a note un-tremmed while pressing the trem tab-NO CHANGE until you release and re-play the note! With a properly programmed jORgan 'rank amplex' trem system, that sustained note will kick on the trem WHILE YOU HOLD THE KEY (or kick the trem off, too) just like pipes! I got that idea from listening to Blackpool recordings where the organist plays the closing chord of a song with all trems flapping away, then while sustaining thatchord, turns all trems off. Can't do that with jOrgan Variations. Rock 'n' Roll organists do the exact opposite with their Leslie speakers, they hold a note or chord with the Leslie trem OFF, then turn it on and let the trem speed up.

If you like the multiple levels of combination action on jOrgan (all 127 of them!) you can also use the same SAMS output methods to have a numerical output on your console (rather than on your screen) that shows you the active level. Right next to that, you can put your MIDI controlled UP and DOWN pistons. Even Allens don't have it that easy.

There are ways (If you have sampling equipment, or are just handy with Vienna 2.3) to create Pizzicato couplers, or better yet, Pizzicato DIVISIONS. In addition to tremulants, you can create percussion RE-IT on/off tabs (put in the same place as your tremulant division), and frankly, all the accessories that a 'Practical' theater organist (If there is such a thing) could dream up, provided of course he is not under the influence of certain medications.

As for the use of soundfonts, there ain't nothin better! With a little extra recording equipmenent (Cakewalk Sonic LE is just fine) and looping software (Zero-X Seamless Looper RULES! and you can get both for less than $200) you can create your OWN stereo (or mono) ranks, install them in your font and get 'em up and playing fairly quickly. You can 'borrow' ranks from other fonts through the Creative Labs Sound Bank Manager, borroring them from Kent Allman's USF collection, the pipe samples available for the Miditzer (the tuned percussion samples are the best in the business), or ME, if you ask real nice (no bribes required).

As for the apparent soundcard limitation of two channels brought about by this type of system, there's ways around that, too. The easiest is to make each of those two channels be absolute monsters. 3 way 15" with at least 200-400 watts RMS running through them. DON'T push these to the limits in a reasonably sized residence unless you wish to undergo tinnitus treatments usually reserved for rock stars.  Want to avoid all that intermod distortion everyone that seems to need 100 channels talks about? DETUNE each of your ranks by 5-10 cents from each other, some sharp, (strings and maybe some reeds) and others flat. DON"T OVERDO IT. THis can all be done in Vienna. True, when you turn your trems off your organ will sound like some trash that has not been restored since its silent movie usage, BUT flip 'em back on, and you have a massive sounding organ that will blend well.

The 2.x jOrgan with soundfonts is a brilliant invention on the part of Sven, and I will thank him and sing his praises for it 'till my dying day. There's stuff in there even HE doesn't know exists! Necessity is the mother of invention, and dude, I got 'necessities'. I just don't believe that the 3.x versions, brought about about by the gigastudio and 10 channel soundcard craze, is yet up to snuff compared to the REMARKABLE and COMPARITIVELY SIMPLE utilities of 2.x. 2.x still has wonderfully simple ways of producing many of the wonderful things that we as organists need more than convoluted reverb or 50 channel outouts. The present thread on Sforzando problems is easily solved in a jOrgan 2.4/SFX/Soundfont system.

One last point in my design philosophy which I know differs greatly from many on this site (I admit it, so hate mail, please, this is still a free country, and I haven't used any dirty words yet) You do NOT have to duplicate the Atlantic City Auditoriun organ or the 5-80 Sanfillippo WurliTzer to be happy and create beautiful music! A 15-18 rank well unified theater organ is more than most will ever need (or can truly master), if you even have to go THAT large! Mine is only that big because I like a variety of softly voiced accompaniment stops (which up the rank count quickly-some are actually 'straight' ranks!) and one unusual novelty Solo Tibia that only appears once in the specification. Essentially I have a One Tibia, One Vox moderate three manual theater organ, well unified with a convienient disposition of accessories (inclucing home-built second touch-OUCH!). Many ivirtual instruments are FAR larger, but this moderate little beast suits me fine, it
 is FULLY COMPLETED, and it ALL WORKS (some console painting still needed). On jORgan 2.4 and Soundfonts (two SFX instances) yet!

K.I.S.S.  (Keep it sweet and simple)

LES KNOLL




     

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

[GrahamG]

Hi Les,

It's great to hear/read someone so enthusiastic about jOrgan. It is a
wonderful program and has given us an awesome interface for our
virtual organs :-)

FYI, the jOrgan 3.2 fluidsynth extension with soundfonts and Sforzando
activator works perfectly and is incredibly easy to setup too.

GrahamG

On 6/20/08, Les Knoll <steamrocks@...> wrote:

> AMEN!  CAN I HEAR SOMEONE SAY AMEN!!!
>
> One thing, though, John, you might want to go to the SLIGHT upgrade to 2.4
> because if you have, or will ever consider having a completely remote
> console, the 2.4 solves the then existant 'bug' of the piston setter button
> not being able to be remote controlled by MIDI signals as in 2.3.5. This is
> ESSENTIAL to a remote console!
>
> With 2.4, You can also implement the ONLY fully remote SAMS combination
> action that is field proven (geez, you'd think I was SELLING the darn
> thing!). It has been (somewhat) fully documented in earlier posts. YES, it
> is a relative pain in the (select favorite body part here) to set up since
> you need to essentially set up three sets of stop tabs, But when you're
> done, baby, you're home free! It WORKS, and does NOT hang up. The only
> problem is you may get some funky combinations 'set up' for you depending if
> you turn off your console or your computer first. The answer, a general
> cancel. It is like a 'Father Confessor' when you first fire your rig up, and
> if you rig it up right, it resets EVERYTHING. (Could call it a reset or
> boot-up piston, too)
>
> There is also a way in 2.4 (or 2.3.5 for that matter) to eliminate the
> synthesizer-like response of the 'variation' control of tremulants. In the
> variation system, hold a note un-tremmed while pressing the trem tab-NO
> CHANGE until you release and re-play the note! With a properly programmed
> jORgan 'rank amplex' trem system, that sustained note will kick on the trem
> WHILE YOU HOLD THE KEY (or kick the trem off, too) just like pipes! I got
> that idea from listening to Blackpool recordings where the organist plays
> the closing chord of a song with all trems flapping away, then while
> sustaining thatchord, turns all trems off. Can't do that with jOrgan
> Variations. Rock 'n' Roll organists do the exact opposite with their Leslie
> speakers, they hold a note or chord with the Leslie trem OFF, then turn it
> on and let the trem speed up.
>
> If you like the multiple levels of combination action on jOrgan (all 127 of
> them!) you can also use the same SAMS output methods to have a numerical
> output on your console (rather than on your screen) that shows you the
> active level. Right next to that, you can put your MIDI controlled UP and
> DOWN pistons. Even Allens don't have it that easy.
>
> There are ways (If you have sampling equipment, or are just handy with
> Vienna 2.3) to create Pizzicato couplers, or better yet, Pizzicato
> DIVISIONS. In addition to tremulants, you can create percussion RE-IT on/off
> tabs (put in the same place as your tremulant division), and frankly, all
> the accessories that a 'Practical' theater organist (If there is such a
> thing) could dream up, provided of course he is not under the influence of
> certain medications.
>
> As for the use of soundfonts, there ain't nothin better! With a little extra
> recording equipmenent (Cakewalk Sonic LE is just fine) and looping software
> (Zero-X Seamless Looper RULES! and you can get both for less than $200) you
> can create your OWN stereo (or mono) ranks, install them in your font and
> get 'em up and playing fairly quickly. You can 'borrow' ranks from other
> fonts through the Creative Labs Sound Bank Manager, borroring them from Kent
> Allman's USF collection, the pipe samples available for the Miditzer (the
> tuned percussion samples are the best in the business), or ME, if you ask
> real nice (no bribes required).
>
> As for the apparent soundcard limitation of two channels brought about by
> this type of system, there's ways around that, too. The easiest is to make
> each of those two channels be absolute monsters. 3 way 15" with at least
> 200-400 watts RMS running through them. DON'T push these to the limits in a
> reasonably sized residence unless you wish to undergo tinnitus treatments
> usually reserved for rock stars.  Want to avoid all that intermod distortion
> everyone that seems to need 100 channels talks about? DETUNE each of your
> ranks by 5-10 cents from each other, some sharp, (strings and maybe some
> reeds) and others flat. DON"T OVERDO IT. THis can all be done in Vienna.
> True, when you turn your trems off your organ will sound like some trash
> that has not been restored since its silent movie usage, BUT flip 'em back
> on, and you have a massive sounding organ that will blend well.
>
> The 2.x jOrgan with soundfonts is a brilliant invention on the part of Sven,
> and I will thank him and sing his praises for it 'till my dying day. There's
> stuff in there even HE doesn't know exists! Necessity is the mother of
> invention, and dude, I got 'necessities'. I just don't believe that the 3.x
> versions, brought about about by the gigastudio and 10 channel soundcard
> craze, is yet up to snuff compared to the REMARKABLE and COMPARITIVELY
> SIMPLE utilities of 2.x. 2.x still has wonderfully simple ways of producing
> many of the wonderful things that we as organists need more than convoluted
> reverb or 50 channel outouts. The present thread on Sforzando problems is
> easily solved in a jOrgan 2.4/SFX/Soundfont system.
>
> One last point in my design philosophy which I know differs greatly from
> many on this site (I admit it, so hate mail, please, this is still a free
> country, and I haven't used any dirty words yet) You do NOT have to
> duplicate the Atlantic City Auditoriun organ or the 5-80 Sanfillippo
> WurliTzer to be happy and create beautiful music! A 15-18 rank well unified
> theater organ is more than most will ever need (or can truly master), if you
> even have to go THAT large! Mine is only that big because I like a variety
> of softly voiced accompaniment stops (which up the rank count quickly-some
> are actually 'straight' ranks!) and one unusual novelty Solo Tibia that only
> appears once in the specification. Essentially I have a One Tibia, One Vox
> moderate three manual theater organ, well unified with a convienient
> disposition of accessories (inclucing home-built second touch-OUCH!). Many
> ivirtual instruments are FAR larger, but this moderate little beast suits me
> fine, it
>  is FULLY COMPLETED, and it ALL WORKS (some console painting still needed).
> On jORgan 2.4 and Soundfonts (two SFX instances) yet!
>
> K.I.S.S.  (Keep it sweet and simple)
>
> LES KNOLL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
> _______________________________________________
> jOrgan-user mailing list
> jOrgan-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user

[John D. Beach]

"As for the use of soundfonts, there ain't nothin better! "

I am not new to Vienna or soundfonts with just over ten years experience
with them now.  I still homebrew all my own and  have used the organ stop
wave files made with Wave Generator and Klangsynth  to "re-fit" some of the
other popular Organ soundfonts (Jeux 1.4 and the Sound Canvas SCPOP files)
that have been out there since the first.

I have been puttering with 3.3 beta for the last couple of days and have
compared the edited messages in the Beta Organ I created with Bruce Miles'
Eorg v3.0 and everything looks the same, but neither disposition works any
of the stops.  His version only works on the Crescendo.  Not a single stop
will play.  I am wondering if there is some setting of Active to True for
all the Ranks or if you need to do a  Style-Coupler/Invert to get the thing
to engage all the Ranks and effectuate Stop functioning.  To this point, it
looks very much like a Rolls Royce or a Lincoln Continental that won't take
its well-heeled passenger any place!  Back to 2x!
John Beach


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
jOrgan-user mailing list
jOrgan-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jorgan-user