Re: avr32 port

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote:

   There has been a crazy idea for me to  embed kaffe VM or phoneme CDC vm to
Linux kernel as a separate module to speed up vm execution,so vm can directly
access hardware. But you know,that should break up the role of JVM as a
sandbox...... and we chould not prove the feasibility yet...

Yeah, don't think the kernel crowd would be particularly inspired by this 
idea:-)

   Now I saw your idea, I guess you mean JIT on AVR32 ?

Well, in "Java Technical Reference" from Atmel they call it "Java 
Extension Module (JEM)".

I've been as a JVM developer for mobile & CE devices. Maybe I would be 
glad to help you make you do a port to AVR32 ,but I am in China,the AVR 
board might not be easy to find in public market ..

That sounds very good! Now, after I've written my first email to the 
kaffee ML, I found JamVM, which is smaller, and is already ported to 
AVR32! In pure software mode, of course. So, I think, we could start with 
that one. If you prefer kaffee, you are certainly most welcome to try to 
port it over too! We anyway have ti first get it run in software mode, 
before implementing hardware acceleration.

As for the hardware - as I said, as soon as I get the board, I can provide 
an ssh login to it to you or any other interester parties. I could even 
provide a serial console, if that will be needed too. I think, this should 
be enough for the beginning.

Thanks
Guennadi
---
Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D.
Freelance Open-Source Software Developer

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote:

Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote:

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote:

   There has been a crazy idea for me to  embed kaffe VM or phoneme CDC vm
to
Linux kernel as a separate module to speed up vm execution,so vm can
directly
access hardware. But you know,that should break up the role of JVM as a
sandbox...... and we chould not prove the feasibility yet...

Yeah, don't think the kernel crowd would be particularly inspired by this
idea:-)

  Maybe Java OS might be more specific and practical :) . Anyway ,it is on my
ToDO list.

You are late (at least on AVR): 
http://www.harbaum.org/till/nanovm/index.shtml

   Now I saw your idea, I guess you mean JIT on AVR32 ?

Well, in "Java Technical Reference" from Atmel they call it "Java Extension
Module (JEM)".

  if you wanna do hardware acceleration ,we could consider libJIT which is
mentioned Kaffe document.

Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would 
make any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your 
bytecode at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. 
So, I don't see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make 
our work easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with.

I've been as a JVM developer for mobile & CE devices. Maybe I would be
glad to help you make you do a port to AVR32 ,but I am in China,the AVR
board might not be easy to find in public market ..

That sounds very good! Now, after I've written my first email to the kaffee
ML, I found JamVM, which is smaller, and is already ported to AVR32! In pure
software mode, of course. So, I think, we could start with that one. If you
prefer kaffee, you are certainly most welcome to try to port it over too! We
anyway have ti first get it run in software mode, before implementing
hardware acceleration.

   Yep,both Kaffe and JamVM are good thing to learn. What kind of applications
would you want to run on  AVR32?

Ideally none:-) As I said, I'm just interested in the idea per se. Will 
see how it comes out.

On low-end devices,enable JIT would be expensive.

Ok, then we better forget it (for now at least).

   Now that JamVM is working on AVR32,maybe we need some benchmark or
something.
   I have said that I would be glad and interested to help a fresh port on
AVR32 ,so i think  JamVM would be fine..:)

Good! Then I would suggest to move further discussion to the jamvm list 
(https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jamvm-general). I'll write 
there with CC you and attach a very slightly cleaned up avr32 patch for 
JamVM from Leen Toelen.

As for the hardware - as I said, as soon as I get the board, I can provide
an ssh login to it to you or any other interester parties. I could even
provide a serial console, if that will be needed too. I think, this should
be enough for the beginning.

 That would be great....  There should be many experts here.....:)

I'll let you know when the board arrives.

Thanks
Guennadi
---
Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D.
Freelance Open-Source Software Developer

On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote:

Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would make
any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your bytecode
at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. So, I don't
see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make our work
easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with.

  You mignt mean Jazelle like technology actually. 

Yes, this is exactly what I mean by "hardware accelerated Java on AVR32" 
and what Atmel calls "Java Extension Module (JEM)." The main difference 
is, that JEM documentation is publically accessible, and Jazelle isn't.

I'll let you know when the board arrives.

  Thank you :) . Maybe I should find some emulator first :)

I haven't found any. Let me know if you have more luck.

Thanks
Guennadi
---
Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D.
Freelance Open-Source Software Developer

	Re: avr32 port by Guennadi Liakhovetski :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: > There has been a crazy idea for me to embed kaffe VM or phoneme CDC vm to > Linux kernel as a separate module to speed up vm execution,so vm can directly > access hardware. But you know,that should break up the role of JVM as a > sandbox...... and we chould not prove the feasibility yet... Yeah, don't think the kernel crowd would be particularly inspired by this idea:-) > Now I saw your idea, I guess you mean JIT on AVR32 ? Well, in "Java Technical Reference" from Atmel they call it "Java Extension Module (JEM)". > I've been as a JVM developer for mobile & CE devices. Maybe I would be > glad to help you make you do a port to AVR32 ,but I am in China,the AVR > board might not be easy to find in public market .. That sounds very good! Now, after I've written my first email to the kaffee ML, I found JamVM, which is smaller, and is already ported to AVR32! In pure software mode, of course. So, I think, we could start with that one. If you prefer kaffee, you are certainly most welcome to try to port it over too! We anyway have ti first get it run in software mode, before implementing hardware acceleration. As for the hardware - as I said, as soon as I get the board, I can provide an ssh login to it to you or any other interester parties. I could even provide a serial console, if that will be needed too. I think, this should be enough for the beginning. Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe
	Re: avr32 port by Sakur.deagod :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message hi,Guennadi: Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote: On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: There has been a crazy idea for me to embed kaffe VM or phoneme CDC vm to Linux kernel as a separate module to speed up vm execution,so vm can directly access hardware. But you know,that should break up the role of JVM as a sandbox...... and we chould not prove the feasibility yet... Yeah, don't think the kernel crowd would be particularly inspired by this idea:-) Maybe Java OS might be more specific and practical :) . Anyway ,it is on my ToDO list. Now I saw your idea, I guess you mean JIT on AVR32 ? Well, in "Java Technical Reference" from Atmel they call it "Java Extension Module (JEM)". if you wanna do hardware acceleration ,we could consider libJIT which is mentioned Kaffe document. I've been as a JVM developer for mobile & CE devices. Maybe I would be glad to help you make you do a port to AVR32 ,but I am in China,the AVR board might not be easy to find in public market .. That sounds very good! Now, after I've written my first email to the kaffee ML, I found JamVM, which is smaller, and is already ported to AVR32! In pure software mode, of course. So, I think, we could start with that one. If you prefer kaffee, you are certainly most welcome to try to port it over too! We anyway have ti first get it run in software mode, before implementing hardware acceleration. Yep,both Kaffe and JamVM are good thing to learn. What kind of applications would you want to run on AVR32? On low-end devices,enable JIT would be expensive. Now that JamVM is working on AVR32,maybe we need some benchmark or something. I have said that I would be glad and interested to help a fresh port on AVR32 ,so i think JamVM would be fine..:) As for the hardware - as I said, as soon as I get the board, I can provide an ssh login to it to you or any other interester parties. I could even provide a serial console, if that will be needed too. I think, this should be enough for the beginning. That would be great.... There should be many experts here.....:) Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe
	Re: avr32 port by Guennadi Liakhovetski :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: > Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote: > > On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: > > > > > There has been a crazy idea for me to embed kaffe VM or phoneme CDC vm > > > to > > > Linux kernel as a separate module to speed up vm execution,so vm can > > > directly > > > access hardware. But you know,that should break up the role of JVM as a > > > sandbox...... and we chould not prove the feasibility yet... > > > > > > > Yeah, don't think the kernel crowd would be particularly inspired by this > > idea:-) > > > Maybe Java OS might be more specific and practical :) . Anyway ,it is on my > ToDO list. You are late (at least on AVR): http://www.harbaum.org/till/nanovm/index.shtml > > > Now I saw your idea, I guess you mean JIT on AVR32 ? > > > > > > > Well, in "Java Technical Reference" from Atmel they call it "Java Extension > > Module (JEM)". > > > if you wanna do hardware acceleration ,we could consider libJIT which is > mentioned Kaffe document. Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would make any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your bytecode at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. So, I don't see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make our work easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with. > > > I've been as a JVM developer for mobile & CE devices. Maybe I would be > > > glad to help you make you do a port to AVR32 ,but I am in China,the AVR > > > board might not be easy to find in public market .. > > > > > > > That sounds very good! Now, after I've written my first email to the kaffee > > ML, I found JamVM, which is smaller, and is already ported to AVR32! In pure > > software mode, of course. So, I think, we could start with that one. If you > > prefer kaffee, you are certainly most welcome to try to port it over too! We > > anyway have ti first get it run in software mode, before implementing > > hardware acceleration. > > > Yep,both Kaffe and JamVM are good thing to learn. What kind of applications > would you want to run on AVR32? Ideally none:-) As I said, I'm just interested in the idea per se. Will see how it comes out. > On low-end devices,enable JIT would be expensive. Ok, then we better forget it (for now at least). > Now that JamVM is working on AVR32,maybe we need some benchmark or > something. > I have said that I would be glad and interested to help a fresh port on > AVR32 ,so i think JamVM would be fine..:) Good! Then I would suggest to move further discussion to the jamvm list (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jamvm-general). I'll write there with CC you and attach a very slightly cleaned up avr32 patch for JamVM from Leen Toelen. > > As for the hardware - as I said, as soon as I get the board, I can provide > > an ssh login to it to you or any other interester parties. I could even > > provide a serial console, if that will be needed too. I think, this should > > be enough for the beginning. > > > That would be great.... There should be many experts here.....:) I'll let you know when the board arrives. Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe
	Re: avr32 port by Sakur.deagod :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message hi,Guennadi: Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote: On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote: On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: There has been a crazy idea for me to embed kaffe VM or phoneme CDC vm to Linux kernel as a separate module to speed up vm execution,so vm can directly access hardware. But you know,that should break up the role of JVM as a sandbox...... and we chould not prove the feasibility yet... Yeah, don't think the kernel crowd would be particularly inspired by this idea:-) Maybe Java OS might be more specific and practical :) . Anyway ,it is on my ToDO list. You are late (at least on AVR): http://www.harbaum.org/till/nanovm/index.shtml nanovm ? :) that's too hardware dependent. But the overview concept is approaching my idea . Thank you very much. Now I saw your idea, I guess you mean JIT on AVR32 ? Well, in "Java Technical Reference" from Atmel they call it "Java Extension Module (JEM)". if you wanna do hardware acceleration ,we could consider libJIT which is mentioned Kaffe document. Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would make any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your bytecode at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. So, I don't see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make our work easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with. You mignt mean Jazelle like technology actually. I've been as a JVM developer for mobile & CE devices. Maybe I would be glad to help you make you do a port to AVR32 ,but I am in China,the AVR board might not be easy to find in public market .. That sounds very good! Now, after I've written my first email to the kaffee ML, I found JamVM, which is smaller, and is already ported to AVR32! In pure software mode, of course. So, I think, we could start with that one. If you prefer kaffee, you are certainly most welcome to try to port it over too! We anyway have ti first get it run in software mode, before implementing hardware acceleration. Yep,both Kaffe and JamVM are good thing to learn. What kind of applications would you want to run on AVR32? Ideally none:-) As I said, I'm just interested in the idea per se. Will see how it comes out. Hardware accelerated jvm for embedded device would be promising and much interesting . We could see on that day. On low-end devices,enable JIT would be expensive. Ok, then we better forget it (for now at least). Now that JamVM is working on AVR32,maybe we need some benchmark or something. I have said that I would be glad and interested to help a fresh port on AVR32 ,so i think JamVM would be fine..:) Good! Then I would suggest to move further discussion to the jamvm list (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jamvm-general). I'll write there with CC you and attach a very slightly cleaned up avr32 patch for JamVM from Leen Toelen. As for the hardware - as I said, as soon as I get the board, I can provide an ssh login to it to you or any other interester parties. I could even provide a serial console, if that will be needed too. I think, this should be enough for the beginning. That would be great.... There should be many experts here.....:) I'll let you know when the board arrives. Thank you :) . Maybe I should find some emulator first :) Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe
	Re: avr32 port by Guennadi Liakhovetski :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: > > Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would make > > any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your bytecode > > at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. So, I don't > > see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make our work > > easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with. > > > You mignt mean Jazelle like technology actually. Yes, this is exactly what I mean by "hardware accelerated Java on AVR32" and what Atmel calls "Java Extension Module (JEM)." The main difference is, that JEM documentation is publically accessible, and Jazelle isn't. > > I'll let you know when the board arrives. > > > Thank you :) . Maybe I should find some emulator first :) I haven't found any. Let me know if you have more luck. Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe
	Re: avr32 port by Sakur.deagod :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote: On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would make any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your bytecode at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. So, I don't see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make our work easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with. You mignt mean Jazelle like technology actually. Yes, this is exactly what I mean by "hardware accelerated Java on AVR32" and what Atmel calls "Java Extension Module (JEM)." The main difference is, that JEM documentation is publically accessible, and Jazelle isn't. That sounds very very great . Would you provide me a link to this documentation or otherwise I may ask Mr. google :) I'll let you know when the board arrives. Thank you :) . Maybe I should find some emulator first :) I haven't found any. Let me know if you have more luck. Let me try my luck. Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe
	Re: avr32 port by Guennadi Liakhovetski :: Rate this Message: Reply to Author \| View Threaded \| Show Only this Message On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: > Guennadi Liakhovetski wrote: > > On Thu, 8 May 2008, Nevo wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, I'm not an expert in this, but I don't know if this really would > > > > make > > > > any improvement. With hardware acceleration you "just" throw your > > > > bytecode > > > > at the CPU and it processes it just as if it were native code. So, I > > > > don't > > > > see how JIT could be useful here. Also, it is unlikely to make our work > > > > easier, or would it? I'd go as simple as possible to start with. > > > > > > > You mignt mean Jazelle like technology actually. > > > > Yes, this is exactly what I mean by "hardware accelerated Java on AVR32" and > > what Atmel calls "Java Extension Module (JEM)." The main difference is, that > > JEM documentation is publically accessible, and Jazelle isn't. > > > That sounds very very great . Would you provide me a link to this > documentation or otherwise I may ask Mr. google :) First link when googling for "avr32 java" is http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc32049.pdf :-) Thanks Guennadi --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer _______________________________________________ kaffe mailing list kaffe@... http://kaffe.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kaffe