Re: Solor panels for EVs (was: Compostie Questions about gliders)

[Morely Dotes]

> From: jeff@...
>
 > If you take the charging inefficeny out
> of the equation and use it as you generate it you gain back some of the
> power. ... I was looking at LOTS of solar cells.  For
> example a tear drop shaped van (built from scratch and not out of steel)
> that holds ten square meters and an intergral designed trailer that sits
> in the slip stream and just extends the tip of the tear drop much farther
> out to make up quite a bit more.  For now I will assume it only has 10
> square meters (more is certainly possible).  That is 20 square meters of
> solar cells that work quite well when driving away from the sun.

Assume you can get 20 square meters of panels, operating at 100%
efficiency (both assumptions are totally nuts, unless you're building a
60-passenger bus, then you can get the area, but never mind that for now).

At noon on a perfect day at exactly midsummer at the equator, you can
get approximately 1hp per square yard of surface. That's as close to
1hp/m^2 as makes no difference.

So you will have 20hp available for a brief period, one day every year,
if you never leave Equador and you ignore the inherent efficiency of
solar cells (a generous estimate is 15% efficiency).

I would *LOVE* for this plan to work. I am fully aware that it can't, if
you plan to go faster than I can walk.

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[Jeff Miller-12]

I actually crunched some numbers last night to determine what it would take.
I am not done yet as I am researching current solar tech to find out what
the cost and efficiencies are.  Solar tech has made good movement forward
since 1988.  The question is has it made it far enough.  Oh and for my upper
limits on legnth I am using a Semi (and maybe a bit more).  These sorts of
projects require out of the box thinking.  When I finish the number
crunching I will post what is already a short book on the EVDL so you guys
can tell me where I screwed up (because I will, it is inevitable in a
complex machine first cut design).

-----Original Message-----
From: Morely Dotes [mailto:morelydotes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 4:01 PM
To: ev@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs (was: Compostie Questions
aboutgliders)


> From: jeff@...
>
 > If you take the charging inefficeny out
> of the equation and use it as you generate it you gain back some of the
> power. ... I was looking at LOTS of solar cells.  For
> example a tear drop shaped van (built from scratch and not out of steel)
> that holds ten square meters and an intergral designed trailer that sits
> in the slip stream and just extends the tip of the tear drop much farther
> out to make up quite a bit more.  For now I will assume it only has 10
> square meters (more is certainly possible).  That is 20 square meters of
> solar cells that work quite well when driving away from the sun.

Assume you can get 20 square meters of panels, operating at 100%
efficiency (both assumptions are totally nuts, unless you're building a
60-passenger bus, then you can get the area, but never mind that for now).

At noon on a perfect day at exactly midsummer at the equator, you can
get approximately 1hp per square yard of surface. That's as close to
1hp/m^2 as makes no difference.

So you will have 20hp available for a brief period, one day every year,
if you never leave Equador and you ignore the inherent efficiency of
solar cells (a generous estimate is 15% efficiency).

I would *LOVE* for this plan to work. I am fully aware that it can't, if
you plan to go faster than I can walk.

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[Neon John]

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:01:05 -0700, Morely Dotes <morelydotes@...>
wrote:

>Assume you can get 20 square meters of panels, operating at 100%
>efficiency (both assumptions are totally nuts, unless you're building a
>60-passenger bus, then you can get the area, but never mind that for now).
>
>At noon on a perfect day at exactly midsummer at the equator, you can
>get approximately 1hp per square yard of surface. That's as close to
>1hp/m^2 as makes no difference.
>
>So you will have 20hp available for a brief period, one day every year,
>if you never leave Equador and you ignore the inherent efficiency of
>solar cells (a generous estimate is 15% efficiency).

A similar question came up in the Usenet RV group about a month ago.  I ran
the numbers assuming a 45 ft long, 109 inch wide motor coach, the largest
legal RV available.  I can't seem to find the article in my archive but in a
nutshell, to go 100 miles once a month it would take a half million dollars
worth of solar panels and lithium batteries and continuous exposure to the sun
in Florida (used as the southern-most point in the eastern US).  I did the
calc using average prices that I could find for solar panels and lithium
batteries and using average efficiency numbers.  

The only thing that I didn't calculate was whether the bus could physically
handle either the volume or the weight of the batteries.  Weight is probably
not a problem with Lithiums but volume probably is.

In any event, it's a silly proposition, regardless of the cost.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Hell is truth seen too late. -Hobbs

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[Bill Dennis-2]

I did a similar calculation here for a Geo Metro about a year ago.  
Basically, you'd need about the space of an 18-wheeler's flat bed to get
enough energy to sustain the Geo at 50 MPH--and that's being generous
with efficiency calculations.

Bill Dennis

Neon John wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:01:05 -0700, Morely Dotes <morelydotes@...>
> wrote:
>
>
>  
>> Assume you can get 20 square meters of panels, operating at 100%
>> efficiency (both assumptions are totally nuts, unless you're building a
>> 60-passenger bus, then you can get the area, but never mind that for now).
>>
>> At noon on a perfect day at exactly midsummer at the equator, you can
>> get approximately 1hp per square yard of surface. That's as close to
>> 1hp/m^2 as makes no difference.
>>
>> So you will have 20hp available for a brief period, one day every year,
>> if you never leave Equador and you ignore the inherent efficiency of
>> solar cells (a generous estimate is 15% efficiency).
>>    
>
> A similar question came up in the Usenet RV group about a month ago.  I ran
> the numbers assuming a 45 ft long, 109 inch wide motor coach, the largest
> legal RV available.  I can't seem to find the article in my archive but in a
> nutshell, to go 100 miles once a month it would take a half million dollars
> worth of solar panels and lithium batteries and continuous exposure to the sun
> in Florida (used as the southern-most point in the eastern US).  I did the
> calc using average prices that I could find for solar panels and lithium
> batteries and using average efficiency numbers.  
>
> The only thing that I didn't calculate was whether the bus could physically
> handle either the volume or the weight of the batteries.  Weight is probably
> not a problem with Lithiums but volume probably is.
>
> In any event, it's a silly proposition, regardless of the cost.
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> Hell is truth seen too late. -Hobbs
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>  

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[Roger Daisley]

I have 16 Kyocera KC130 (130 watt) panels installed at my home in a
net-metering, grid-tie configuration. So far this summer, the panels just
about balance out what I use to charge my VW. I drive an average of 25 miles
per day ... Some days 45 miles and some 20. This winter, I'll be driving
less and of course, there will be less solar energy.

See: http://www.96-volt.com & http://www.RJRenergy.com

Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA

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[Jeff Miller-12]

I crunched the numbers for a panel that could handle all of the power needs
for a car consuming 1000 watt hours per mile and there is a panel available
http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/Panel/panels.pdf
that could do it in the length of a semi.  The concept, to put it simply, is
a 20 foot car towing a 58 foot trailer.  If anyone wants to make a guess on
how much those panels cost feel free.  My best guess is LOTS!!!  Maybe even
Ten Million?  212 square meters (1100 pounds) of satellite grade panels
aren't going to be cheap!

But to say it is impossible is a stretch just impractical at this time
(unless Boeing sponsors me).  More details to follow but due to my vacation
it will probably be next week.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Daisley [mailto:roger@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:08 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs


I have 16 Kyocera KC130 (130 watt) panels installed at my home in a
net-metering, grid-tie configuration. So far this summer, the panels just
about balance out what I use to charge my VW. I drive an average of 25 miles
per day ... Some days 45 miles and some 20. This winter, I'll be driving
less and of course, there will be less solar energy.

See: http://www.96-volt.com & http://www.RJRenergy.com

Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA

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[Jeff Miller-12]

Found something I missed a few minutes ago
http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/PV_NM_TASC_ITJ.pdf
http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/tasc-main.htm#data
250 dollars for 100 cells.  Based on the 1000watt hour per mile assumption
it would only cost 2.8 million dollars.  If anyone on this mailing list is
willing to pay 4 million bucks to have a car with range only limited to
sunlight I would bet it can be done right now.

The 1000 watt hour per mile assumption is that the car only needs 500watt
hours per mile to operate at 60 mph on the flat highway and the rest would
recharge the battery from the early morning driving so the evening driving
will be started with a full pack again.  The other assumption is it can be
plugged in over night so the next morning you start with a fresh pack.  I
havent' tried to optimize this design in any way yet.  Just trying to
discover if the solar tech available remotely supported this.  And for those
keeping score at home those cells are 26.9%.
Good night
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Miller [mailto:jeff@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs


I crunched the numbers for a panel that could handle all of the power needs
for a car consuming 1000 watt hours per mile and there is a panel available
http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/Panel/panels.pdf
that could do it in the length of a semi.  The concept, to put it simply, is
a 20 foot car towing a 58 foot trailer.  If anyone wants to make a guess on
how much those panels cost feel free.  My best guess is LOTS!!!  Maybe even
Ten Million?  212 square meters (1100 pounds) of satellite grade panels
aren't going to be cheap!

But to say it is impossible is a stretch just impractical at this time
(unless Boeing sponsors me).  More details to follow but due to my vacation
it will probably be next week.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Daisley [mailto:roger@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:08 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs


I have 16 Kyocera KC130 (130 watt) panels installed at my home in a
net-metering, grid-tie configuration. So far this summer, the panels just
about balance out what I use to charge my VW. I drive an average of 25 miles
per day ... Some days 45 miles and some 20. This winter, I'll be driving
less and of course, there will be less solar energy.

See: http://www.96-volt.com & http://www.RJRenergy.com

Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA

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[Haudy Kazemi]

Jeff Miller wrote:

> Found something I missed a few minutes ago
> http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/PV_NM_TASC_ITJ.pdf
> http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/tasc-main.htm#data
> 250 dollars for 100 cells.  Based on the 1000watt hour per mile assumption
> it would only cost 2.8 million dollars.  If anyone on this mailing list is
> willing to pay 4 million bucks to have a car with range only limited to
> sunlight I would bet it can be done right now.
>
> The 1000 watt hour per mile assumption is that the car only needs 500watt
> hours per mile to operate at 60 mph on the flat highway and the rest would
> recharge the battery from the early morning driving so the evening driving
> will be started with a full pack again.  The other assumption is it can be
> plugged in over night so the next morning you start with a fresh pack.  I
> havent' tried to optimize this design in any way yet.  Just trying to
> discover if the solar tech available remotely supported this.  And for those
> keeping score at home those cells are 26.9%.
> Good night
> Jeff

As a price point, the Yahoo Sunball mailing list had an offer in late
April for some extra Spectrolab and Emcore 1 x 1 cm bare / unmounted CPV
cells for $15 (Australian dollars) each.  They were reported to be
working at 34.1% efficiency in a Sunball unit around the same time.  CPV
(concentrated photovoltaics) is used to get greater benefit out of these
expensive cells, to the point that they can do better than traditional
PV in terms of $/watt.  The general concept is to use a lens to gather
light from a large area and direct it all onto the cell, while keeping
it cool with a heatsink.  This also means CPV implementations are likely
going to be thicker than traditional PV, making CPV less suitable for
direct use on a vehicle.  If the high efficiency cells hit mass
production, their price might drop enough to be feasibly directly usable
on an EV 10 years from now as range extenders.  Focusing on getting EVs
mass produced is a more important goal now, though.


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[Peter VanDerWal]

If nobody but Bill Gates could afford to try it, then for all practical
purposes, it IS impossible.

let's not waste any more bandwidth on useless data.

> Found something I missed a few minutes ago
> http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/PV_NM_TASC_ITJ.pdf
> http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/tasc-main.htm#data
> 250 dollars for 100 cells.  Based on the 1000watt hour per mile assumption
> it would only cost 2.8 million dollars.  If anyone on this mailing list is
> willing to pay 4 million bucks to have a car with range only limited to
> sunlight I would bet it can be done right now.
>

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[Lee Hart]

Morely Dotes wrote:
> Assume you can get 20 square meters of panels, operating at 100%
> efficiency (both assumptions are totally nuts)... At noon on a
> perfect day at exactly midsummer at the equator, you can get
> approximately 1hp per square yard of surface... I would *LOVE*
> for this plan to work. I am fully aware that it can't, if you
> plan to go faster than I can walk.

The solar raycers really *do* go 100's of miles per day on pure
sunlight. They make up for the size and efficiency problem by being very
small, light, efficient vehicles.

The challenge is to figure out if there is a compromise between a solar
raycer and a normal car that is actually practical as a daily driver.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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[Bob Rice-2]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <evdl@...>
To: <jeff@...>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs


> If nobody but Bill Gates could afford to try it, then for all practical
> purposes, it IS impossible.
>
> let's not waste any more bandwidth on useless data.

     Hi EVerybody;

    Yeah! Gotta good point, though. I get THAT question EVery day. "Can't
you cover yur car with solar display panels and drive forever?" Well, I get
that alot more than the genny on the FRONT wheel gig, nowadaze. We are
making progress with US-ian Sheeple? I just tell them to cover the 2 car
garage, sell the HOUSE to pay for it, though.I know folks in CA, DO drive
oil free so it's not completely out of the question.Hi Doug Korthoff! I know
HE does. But for the rest of us?  Hell! With 21 cents a KWH it looks better
all the time and it IS sunny today?

    Think we gotta concentrate on better purpose-built EV's like Sunrise and
Freedom?Hoping to get away from Led Sleds. Gotta go down to 78 volts to be
street legal, and BELOW GVW in CT! FEH!

    Seeya

    Bob

>
>> Found something I missed a few minutes ago
>> http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/PV_NM_TASC_ITJ.pdf
>> http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/tasc-main.htm#data
>> 250 dollars for 100 cells.  Based on the 1000watt hour per mile
>> assumption
>> it would only cost 2.8 million dollars.  If anyone on this mailing list
>> is
>> willing to pay 4 million bucks to have a car with range only limited to
>> sunlight I would bet it can be done right now.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 

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[Peter VanDerWal]

When you make the vehicle taller, you need more power to go the same speed
(larger frontal area)

The you have to make it sturdier so that it will last for years worth of
daily commuting rather than a weeks worth of racing.  That adds weight,
and increases your power requirements.

Ditto on the tires.  Most solar racers use super LRR tires that only last
a couple thousand miles and aren't available to consumers anyway.

Once you convert a solar racer into a practical daily commuter, it becomes
much more expensive and less efficient.
And we haven't even addressed more than one person or groceries.

At least that's my take on it.

> Sure, the array will cost $200,000 to $500,000 if you're using the
> Gallium Arsenide cells, but those are only used on satelites and solar
> race teams who have lots of money to burn. Many solar teams use
> silicon solar cells that are much more affordable.
>
> My team's car is only 16 feet long (and not 100% covered in solar
> cells), and we spent less than $15,000 on solar cells and less than
> $4,000 on batteries. We get enough energy from sunlight to drive
> hundreds of miles per day (and we'll prove it in a few weeks when we
> race from Texas to Canada).
>
> What do you mean by a "practical commuter car"? Yes, any conversion
> will be useless on solar energy. It will only work in a purpose-build,
> ultra-efficient vehicle.
>
> Why couldn't you modify a solar racer for regular driving, though? You
> can already get in and out by yourself with my team's newest car. You
> could make the body slightly taller to leave room for a padded seat,
> and the area behind the driver could be turned into a nice storage
> space for your briefcase or groceries. Add cupholders, a radio,
> ventilation fans, a heater, and I think you'd be good to go.
>
> What else do you need for a single-person commuter?
>
> I'm not saying we should all be driving these to work; I just think
> there's a big difference between a $100,000 solar array that lets you
> go 6 miles an hour and the reality of a $15,000 solar array that lets
> you go 55 miles per hour (in a specially designed vehicle).
>
> -Morgan LaMoore
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:
>> The ~6 foot wide by ~20 foot long ~$100,000 PV array on a solar car
>> generates about 1600 watts (2 HP) at high noon.
>>
>> Two HP would push an EV that you could actually use to commute about
>> 5 or 6 miles per hour, but the useable surface of a practical
>> commuter car is only about 6 by10 feet, so that would drop down to
>> about 2 or 3 miles per hour. Thus, a cloudless day in the sun would
>> get you about 20 miles, (at best with a $50,000 array, less with
>> cheaper cells, of course.)
>>
>>  >>> EV investors tip #27 <<<<
>>
>>         If there are solar cells on the prototype EV, put your checkbook
>> away.
>>
>> Bill Dube'
>>
>> At 02:15 PM 7/2/2008, you wrote:
>>>Alternatively, you could build an ultra-efficient sub-1000 pound solar
>>>car like the solar racers have been doing for 20 years. These get
>>>enough energy from the sun to travel hundreds of miles per day.
>>>
>>>With a small, lightweight vehicle, solar cells cost less than $15,000
>>>and Lithium batteries cost under $4,000. The only other big costs are
>>>composites for the body and the motor/controller. You could probably
>>>do it for under $50,000 if you were trying to make transportation
>>>instead of win a race.
>>>
>>>Of course, you're better off taking the same small, lightweight
>>>vehicle and leaving the solar cells on the roof of your garage. The
>>>vehicle can be more aerodynamic and weigh less without the solar
>>>cells, using less energy.
>>>
>>>Because any competitive solar racer is under 50 Wh/mile, $4,000 of
>>>Lithium will give you hundreds of miles of range.
>>>
>>>-Morgan LaMoore
>>>
>>>On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:34 AM,  <jeff@...> wrote:
>>> > If it was me I would tell them that to completely power the car via
>>> solar
>>> > you just need a car that is longer than a football field and costs a
>>> > million dollars or a car that is the same length as a semi and costs
>>> 2.8
>>> > million dollars, their choice.  Alternately they can limit their
>>> driving
>>> > to one mile a day at which point they might as well walk.  From a
>>> GVWR
>>> > standpoint you could actually use a trailer with batteries.  You
>>> would
>>> > lose rolling resistance in that trade off but it might make sense in
>>> > special cases.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <evdl@...>
>>> >> To: <jeff@...>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>>> >> <ev@...>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:34 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> If nobody but Bill Gates could afford to try it, then for all
>>> practical
>>> >>> purposes, it IS impossible.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> let's not waste any more bandwidth on useless data.
>>> >>
>>> >>      Hi EVerybody;
>>> >>
>>> >>     Yeah! Gotta good point, though. I get THAT question EVery day.
>>> "Can't
>>> >> you cover yur car with solar display panels and drive forever?"
>>> Well, I
>>> >> get
>>> >> that alot more than the genny on the FRONT wheel gig, nowadaze. We
>>> are
>>> >> making progress with US-ian Sheeple? I just tell them to cover the 2
>>> car
>>> >> garage, sell the HOUSE to pay for it, though.I know folks in CA, DO
>>> drive
>>> >> oil free so it's not completely out of the question.Hi Doug
>>> Korthoff! I
>>> >> know
>>> >> HE does. But for the rest of us?  Hell! With 21 cents a KWH it looks
>>> >> better
>>> >> all the time and it IS sunny today?
>>> >>
>>> >>     Think we gotta concentrate on better purpose-built EV's like
>>> Sunrise
>>> >> and
>>> >> Freedom?Hoping to get away from Led Sleds. Gotta go down to 78 volts
>>> to be
>>> >> street legal, and BELOW GVW in CT! FEH!
>>> >>
>>> >>     Seeya
>>> >>
>>> >>     Bob
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Found something I missed a few minutes ago
>>> >>>> http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/PV_NM_TASC_ITJ.pdf
>>> >>>> http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/tasc-main.htm#data
>>> >>>> 250 dollars for 100 cells.  Based on the 1000watt hour per mile
>>> >>>> assumption
>>> >>>> it would only cost 2.8 million dollars.  If anyone on this mailing
>>> list
>>> >>>> is
>>> >>>> willing to pay 4 million bucks to have a car with range only
>>> limited to
>>> >>>> sunlight I would bet it can be done right now.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> For subscription options, see
>>> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
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[Jeff Miller-12]

If it was me I would tell them that to completely power the car via solar
you just need a car that is longer than a football field and costs a
million dollars or a car that is the same length as a semi and costs 2.8
million dollars, their choice.  Alternately they can limit their driving
to one mile a day at which point they might as well walk.  From a GVWR
standpoint you could actually use a trailer with batteries.  You would
lose rolling resistance in that trade off but it might make sense in
special cases.

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <evdl@...>
> To: <jeff@...>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <ev@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs
>
>
>> If nobody but Bill Gates could afford to try it, then for all practical
>> purposes, it IS impossible.
>>
>> let's not waste any more bandwidth on useless data.
>
>      Hi EVerybody;
>
>     Yeah! Gotta good point, though. I get THAT question EVery day. "Can't
> you cover yur car with solar display panels and drive forever?" Well, I
> get
> that alot more than the genny on the FRONT wheel gig, nowadaze. We are
> making progress with US-ian Sheeple? I just tell them to cover the 2 car
> garage, sell the HOUSE to pay for it, though.I know folks in CA, DO drive
> oil free so it's not completely out of the question.Hi Doug Korthoff! I
> know
> HE does. But for the rest of us?  Hell! With 21 cents a KWH it looks
> better
> all the time and it IS sunny today?
>
>     Think we gotta concentrate on better purpose-built EV's like Sunrise
> and
> Freedom?Hoping to get away from Led Sleds. Gotta go down to 78 volts to be
> street legal, and BELOW GVW in CT! FEH!
>
>     Seeya
>
>     Bob
>>
>>> Found something I missed a few minutes ago
>>> http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/PV/PV_NM_TASC_ITJ.pdf
>>> http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/tasc-main.htm#data
>>> 250 dollars for 100 cells.  Based on the 1000watt hour per mile
>>> assumption
>>> it would only cost 2.8 million dollars.  If anyone on this mailing list
>>> is
>>> willing to pay 4 million bucks to have a car with range only limited to
>>> sunlight I would bet it can be done right now.
>>>
>>
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>
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>

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[Bob Rice-2]

  Hi EVerybody;

    With all the crappy news of late on the Tube and Papers, got some GOOD
news! Birth of a NEW EAA chapter, HAD to happen?! Over on New York's Long
Island, were getting under way at 6PM tonite. Headed up by Mike Anzelone, a
guy that has taken the car by the steering wheel, no bull by the horns,
here.Had the balls to just DO IT. We'll be pulling it to gether at Precision
Signs, in Amityville, well, almost Copeague, next town over. Anybody from
the NYC area, hop on the Wrong Island RR and make it out.They stop at both
Copeague AND Amityville, same line.

    Google the LIEAA site for better directions than I gave. Hey! Dave
Delman! See ya there? Yur just down the road? On the Least Coast it is no
small thing having TWO EAA Chapters in the same time zone. So far we'll have
a Ghia, a small pickup and Dr Dave's DeLorian. Hellova good start, I'd say?

    Out the door. Seeya there?

    Bob

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[Morgan LaMoore]

Alternatively, you could build an ultra-efficient sub-1000 pound solar
car like the solar racers have been doing for 20 years. These get
enough energy from the sun to travel hundreds of miles per day.

With a small, lightweight vehicle, solar cells cost less than $15,000
and Lithium batteries cost under $4,000. The only other big costs are
composites for the body and the motor/controller. You could probably
do it for under $50,000 if you were trying to make transportation
instead of win a race.

Of course, you're better off taking the same small, lightweight
vehicle and leaving the solar cells on the roof of your garage. The
vehicle can be more aerodynamic and weigh less without the solar
cells, using less energy.

Because any competitive solar racer is under 50 Wh/mile, $4,000 of
Lithium will give you hundreds of miles of range.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:34 AM,  <jeff@...> wrote:

> If it was me I would tell them that to completely power the car via solar
> you just need a car that is longer than a football field and costs a
> million dollars or a car that is the same length as a semi and costs 2.8
> million dollars, their choice.  Alternately they can limit their driving
> to one mile a day at which point they might as well walk.  From a GVWR
> standpoint you could actually use a trailer with batteries.  You would
> lose rolling resistance in that trade off but it might make sense in
> special cases.
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <evdl@...>
>> To: <jeff@...>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>> <ev@...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 3:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solor panels for EVs
>>
>>
>>> If nobody but Bill Gates could afford to try it, then for all practical
>>> purposes, it IS impossible.
>>>
>>> let's not waste any more bandwidth on useless data.
>>
>>      Hi EVerybody;
>>
>>     Yeah! Gotta good point, though. I get THAT question EVery day. "Can't
>> you cover yur car with solar display panels and drive forever?" Well, I
>> get
>> that alot more than the genny on the FRONT wheel gig, nowadaze. We are
>> making progress with US-ian Sheeple? I just tell them to cover the 2 car
>> garage, sell the HOUSE to pay for it, though.I know folks in CA, DO drive
>> oil free so it's not completely out of the question.Hi Doug Korthoff! I
>>