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« Return to Thread: Improving the list of nurbs curves plugins
Re: Improving the list of nurbs curves plugins
by Joe Crawford
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On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 6:43 AM, Bart Janssens
<bart.janssens@...> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Carsten Haubold <CarstenHaubold@...> wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > or especially Joaquín, Joe and Bart,
> >
> > would you be so kind and have a look at the list of plugins
> > (http://www.k-3d.org/wiki/User:Caste/GSoC_Application) I proposed (the
> > curves part for now) and tell me what you think should be added/changed just
> > as Joaquín already did? Especially Joe's artist's view would be important
> > here I think.
>
> I have nothing really fundamental to add, but for the curve tools we
> should ensure that there is complete "mathematical" control, i.e.
> allow modification of the curve order (Degree Elevation), knot
> multiplicity and optionally direct control over the knot vector
> (enforcing the applicable contraints). In the long term, a
> point-and-click tool to create control points or curves could be
> created.
Those are very good points.
Actually, early on in the process, we should be thinking about a
couple of those things quite a bit.
For example, linear points on cubic curves (ie, using knot
multiplicity or whatever) should be very transparent to the user. So
that if, for example, the user wants to create a corner on a curve
that is smooth, a CV can be selected and turned into a corner CV.
After such a point, all tools and plugins would operate on that CV as
if it was one point, even though it might have a multiplicity of 3.
The overall problem with Nurbs tools typically is that they don't take
care to manage such things from an artists point of view. If the
system manages such things and abstracts them well, then users can
have more of a "set if and forget it" approach to using things. As
opposed to say, many other programs, where the user would have to take
special care to select all three points all piled up on top of each
other, in order to move around the corner CV.
Thinking about the overall approach to a lot of these tools is
probably quite important. A lot of different tools/plugins should all
respect some of these settings.
Another question, some Nurbs curves I've used have a "weight"
associated on various CVs. Does k3d support weights?
Another thing is that curves should be able to mix there degrees, at
least from a users point of view. This is related to the earlier bit
about multiplicity, and is perhaps another method of getting the same
usability. So, for example, if you have a smooth curve, and a linear
curve, and want to tie the end points together, you should be able to
weld them. After such point, as far as the user is concerned, there is
only one point there. One point to select, one point to move. The
system would manage the fact that its actually different points away
from view of the artist.
These things might be getting ahead of ourselves, since really, I
would be satisfied if I could just draw curves using point and click.
That would at least allow nice references for modeling. However,
perhaps the tools can be written so that these concerns can easily be
addressed later without rewriting everything.
Perhaps the best way that I can help would be to look at the lists so
far, and order them in terms of what an artist would need first/most.
A lot of those other concerns I bring up would be cool down the road,
but aren't really crucial right away.
I'll try to edit the wiki a little bit to make a page with my
perceived "order of importance" for artists.
Sincerely,
Joe Crawford
___________________________________
Owner - Celestine Studios and Joetainment Enterprises
Cell: 604-866-3050
Email: joetainment@...
Web: http://celestinestudios.com
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<bart.janssens@...> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Carsten Haubold <CarstenHaubold@...> wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > or especially Joaquín, Joe and Bart,
> >
> > would you be so kind and have a look at the list of plugins
> > (http://www.k-3d.org/wiki/User:Caste/GSoC_Application) I proposed (the
> > curves part for now) and tell me what you think should be added/changed just
> > as Joaquín already did? Especially Joe's artist's view would be important
> > here I think.
>
> I have nothing really fundamental to add, but for the curve tools we
> should ensure that there is complete "mathematical" control, i.e.
> allow modification of the curve order (Degree Elevation), knot
> multiplicity and optionally direct control over the knot vector
> (enforcing the applicable contraints). In the long term, a
> point-and-click tool to create control points or curves could be
> created.
Those are very good points.
Actually, early on in the process, we should be thinking about a
couple of those things quite a bit.
For example, linear points on cubic curves (ie, using knot
multiplicity or whatever) should be very transparent to the user. So
that if, for example, the user wants to create a corner on a curve
that is smooth, a CV can be selected and turned into a corner CV.
After such a point, all tools and plugins would operate on that CV as
if it was one point, even though it might have a multiplicity of 3.
The overall problem with Nurbs tools typically is that they don't take
care to manage such things from an artists point of view. If the
system manages such things and abstracts them well, then users can
have more of a "set if and forget it" approach to using things. As
opposed to say, many other programs, where the user would have to take
special care to select all three points all piled up on top of each
other, in order to move around the corner CV.
Thinking about the overall approach to a lot of these tools is
probably quite important. A lot of different tools/plugins should all
respect some of these settings.
Another question, some Nurbs curves I've used have a "weight"
associated on various CVs. Does k3d support weights?
Another thing is that curves should be able to mix there degrees, at
least from a users point of view. This is related to the earlier bit
about multiplicity, and is perhaps another method of getting the same
usability. So, for example, if you have a smooth curve, and a linear
curve, and want to tie the end points together, you should be able to
weld them. After such point, as far as the user is concerned, there is
only one point there. One point to select, one point to move. The
system would manage the fact that its actually different points away
from view of the artist.
These things might be getting ahead of ourselves, since really, I
would be satisfied if I could just draw curves using point and click.
That would at least allow nice references for modeling. However,
perhaps the tools can be written so that these concerns can easily be
addressed later without rewriting everything.
Perhaps the best way that I can help would be to look at the lists so
far, and order them in terms of what an artist would need first/most.
A lot of those other concerns I bring up would be cool down the road,
but aren't really crucial right away.
I'll try to edit the wiki a little bit to make a page with my
perceived "order of importance" for artists.
Sincerely,
Joe Crawford
___________________________________
Owner - Celestine Studios and Joetainment Enterprises
Cell: 604-866-3050
Email: joetainment@...
Web: http://celestinestudios.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
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K3d-development mailing list
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