« Return to Thread: Did consumers kill the electric car?
Re: Did consumers kill the electric car?
by kEVs
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Lee and all,
I had never heard of this kind of tactic but it
doesn't surprise me.
As i read the rebuttal to electrics I was almost
convinced and I know better. I drove an EV-1 and know
how wonderful a car it was. I have my stall of home
made electrics and know that they work too and still
almost believed this BS.
The best rebuttal might be the same non-provable, non
arguable stuff.
something like:
Why did the auto companies build electrics that were
in a body form that limited their apeal from the
beginning. How many people drive a two passenger
coup?
With the exception of the Insight there are very few
made and they are all exocits. So GM had limited the
potential market right off the bat. regardless of
this almost everyone who drove it loved it. Why
didn't they make the sunrise. a four passenger. or
better yet a 4 passenger, 4 door mid size. this is
what most cars actually are.
Since these cars were exprimental why did they lease
them only. I would have bought the EV-1 I drove for
50k if they would have sold it to me. Since they were
experimental and they (car companies) said they were
loosing money on them. Why not loose a little more
and lease them at the same price as a normal car.
$200-$300 per month why $600. all these things were
done to ensure failure and "proof" that there was no
consumer demand but as we all know when the recalled
them there was considerable demand.
just a few ideas...
kEVs
--- Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
> My local EAA chapter had an exhibit at the Living
> Green Expo in St. Paul
> MN earlier this month. One of our state
> representatives visited, and
> became quite interested in EVs. He's been contacting
> us for additional
> information and offering help and advice.
>
> Interestingly enough, as soon as he began talking
> about EVs, he started
> receiving anti-EV propaganda. The same sort of thing
> happened to me the
> instant an article mentioning me appeared in Mother
> Jones magazine. It
> makes me suspect that oil and auto company PR
> organizations have set up
> "trip wires" that alert them the instant anything
> appears, and have
> prepared robot responses so they can instantly
> respond. A friend of mine
> called them "sock puppets" -- robot responses from
> nonexistent people
> that automatically appear to attack anything counter
> to the client's
> interests. Be on your toes!
>
> Anyway, here is one he sent us. He asked for a
> rebuttal. How should we
> respond?
>
> --------begin included document--------
>
> Did Consumers Kill The Electric Car?
>
> As detailed in "Who Killed the Electric Car?" and
> other sources, many
> observers and passionate EV1 fans feel that
> automakers and oil companies
> conspired to destroy the electric car. An
> alternative theory, however,
> is outlined below.
>
> After an early wave of interest, enthusiasm for the
> EV1 subsided because
> of the cars limitations. First, EV1s were
> expensive; they cost two or
> three times as much as comparable gasoline powered
> cars. They could be
> leased (but not sold) for $400-600 per month.
> Second, the batteries
> could not supply the range or durability required
> by the mass market.
> Third, the infrastructure for recharging was not in
> place. Fourth, the
> high voltages and operating temperatures of the
> batteries presented some
> unique safety hazards, and only a relative handful
> of mechanics knew
> how to work safely on the powerful batteries.
> Fifth, the EV1 was a tiny
> two-seater that simply did not work for families
> with children. Finally,
> the car was fast, but the handling was odd because
> of the heavy battery.
> These limitations prompted an alternative-fuel
> specialist at J.D.
> Power & Associates to conclude that EV1s are just
> not acceptable to
> consumers. Honda had even less success with its
> electric vehicle, the
> Plus, leasing just 300 in three years.
>
> The final nail was driven into the electric car
> coffin by hybrid
> gas-electric cars like the Toyota Prius and the
> Honda Insight, which
> have maintained great popularity partly due to their
> ability to recharge
> while cruising down the road. Other automakers took
> note. Now virtually
> every manufacturer has announced that it will
> produce a hybrid vehicle
> by the end of the decade.
>
> Thus, as one commentator noted, it is likely that
> market forces, not
> nefarious tactics, killed the electric car: As the
> market success of
> cars like the Prius and the market failure of cars
> like the EV1
> illustrate, it wasn't a shortage that prevented
> battery electric
> vehicles from selling and it wasn't a desire not to
> offer clean vehicles
> that prompted manufacturers to stop producing them.
> The reason for the
> market response to these vehicles is because, if
> given the option, the
> general public would buy environmentally friendly
> automobiles if the
> sacrifices that had to be made to drive them were
> minimal. Accordingly,
> the level of sacrifices that has to be made to drive
> battery electric
> vehicles discourages all but the most enthusiastic
> consumers from
> leasing them.
>
> --------end included document--------
>
> Now, this is a *very* cleverly written piece of
> work. Nothing it says is
> an outright lie that you could prove false. It
> doesn't rant or rave; it
> sounds completely rational and objective. But it is
> designed to create a
> totally false impression!
>
> How do you counter such a thing? I think the key is
> to get as many solid
> facts and references as possible, but not bury the
> reader in statistics
> or it won't get read. You have to give someone who
> is entirely
> unfamiliar with the subject an objective view of the
> situation that will
> stand up to careful scutiny and fact-checking.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
I had never heard of this kind of tactic but it
doesn't surprise me.
As i read the rebuttal to electrics I was almost
convinced and I know better. I drove an EV-1 and know
how wonderful a car it was. I have my stall of home
made electrics and know that they work too and still
almost believed this BS.
The best rebuttal might be the same non-provable, non
arguable stuff.
something like:
Why did the auto companies build electrics that were
in a body form that limited their apeal from the
beginning. How many people drive a two passenger
coup?
With the exception of the Insight there are very few
made and they are all exocits. So GM had limited the
potential market right off the bat. regardless of
this almost everyone who drove it loved it. Why
didn't they make the sunrise. a four passenger. or
better yet a 4 passenger, 4 door mid size. this is
what most cars actually are.
Since these cars were exprimental why did they lease
them only. I would have bought the EV-1 I drove for
50k if they would have sold it to me. Since they were
experimental and they (car companies) said they were
loosing money on them. Why not loose a little more
and lease them at the same price as a normal car.
$200-$300 per month why $600. all these things were
done to ensure failure and "proof" that there was no
consumer demand but as we all know when the recalled
them there was considerable demand.
just a few ideas...
kEVs
--- Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
> My local EAA chapter had an exhibit at the Living
> Green Expo in St. Paul
> MN earlier this month. One of our state
> representatives visited, and
> became quite interested in EVs. He's been contacting
> us for additional
> information and offering help and advice.
>
> Interestingly enough, as soon as he began talking
> about EVs, he started
> receiving anti-EV propaganda. The same sort of thing
> happened to me the
> instant an article mentioning me appeared in Mother
> Jones magazine. It
> makes me suspect that oil and auto company PR
> organizations have set up
> "trip wires" that alert them the instant anything
> appears, and have
> prepared robot responses so they can instantly
> respond. A friend of mine
> called them "sock puppets" -- robot responses from
> nonexistent people
> that automatically appear to attack anything counter
> to the client's
> interests. Be on your toes!
>
> Anyway, here is one he sent us. He asked for a
> rebuttal. How should we
> respond?
>
> --------begin included document--------
>
> Did Consumers Kill The Electric Car?
>
> As detailed in "Who Killed the Electric Car?" and
> other sources, many
> observers and passionate EV1 fans feel that
> automakers and oil companies
> conspired to destroy the electric car. An
> alternative theory, however,
> is outlined below.
>
> After an early wave of interest, enthusiasm for the
> EV1 subsided because
> of the cars limitations. First, EV1s were
> expensive; they cost two or
> three times as much as comparable gasoline powered
> cars. They could be
> leased (but not sold) for $400-600 per month.
> Second, the batteries
> could not supply the range or durability required
> by the mass market.
> Third, the infrastructure for recharging was not in
> place. Fourth, the
> high voltages and operating temperatures of the
> batteries presented some
> unique safety hazards, and only a relative handful
> of mechanics knew
> how to work safely on the powerful batteries.
> Fifth, the EV1 was a tiny
> two-seater that simply did not work for families
> with children. Finally,
> the car was fast, but the handling was odd because
> of the heavy battery.
> These limitations prompted an alternative-fuel
> specialist at J.D.
> Power & Associates to conclude that EV1s are just
> not acceptable to
> consumers. Honda had even less success with its
> electric vehicle, the
> Plus, leasing just 300 in three years.
>
> The final nail was driven into the electric car
> coffin by hybrid
> gas-electric cars like the Toyota Prius and the
> Honda Insight, which
> have maintained great popularity partly due to their
> ability to recharge
> while cruising down the road. Other automakers took
> note. Now virtually
> every manufacturer has announced that it will
> produce a hybrid vehicle
> by the end of the decade.
>
> Thus, as one commentator noted, it is likely that
> market forces, not
> nefarious tactics, killed the electric car: As the
> market success of
> cars like the Prius and the market failure of cars
> like the EV1
> illustrate, it wasn't a shortage that prevented
> battery electric
> vehicles from selling and it wasn't a desire not to
> offer clean vehicles
> that prompted manufacturers to stop producing them.
> The reason for the
> market response to these vehicles is because, if
> given the option, the
> general public would buy environmentally friendly
> automobiles if the
> sacrifices that had to be made to drive them were
> minimal. Accordingly,
> the level of sacrifices that has to be made to drive
> battery electric
> vehicles discourages all but the most enthusiastic
> consumers from
> leasing them.
>
> --------end included document--------
>
> Now, this is a *very* cleverly written piece of
> work. Nothing it says is
> an outright lie that you could prove false. It
> doesn't rant or rave; it
> sounds completely rational and objective. But it is
> designed to create a
> totally false impression!
>
> How do you counter such a thing? I think the key is
> to get as many solid
> facts and references as possible, but not bury the
> reader in statistics
> or it won't get read. You have to give someone who
> is entirely
> unfamiliar with the subject an objective view of the
> situation that will
> stand up to careful scutiny and fact-checking.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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