Re: Converting a bike to electric using a front hub motor.

[Chip Gribben]

One safety factor to consider with these hub motor bikes are the drop  
outs and the forks.

Aluminum front forks aren't safe with these hubmotors, particularly  
the high torque ones.

Probably the best frames to use are the cheap Wal-Mart variety bikes.  
They are usually pretty heavy and the forks and drops outs are sturdy  
enough to handle the torque.

Electric recumbent and semi-recumbent bikes are probably the safest  
bikes for employing a hub motor. They are lower to the ground (not as  
far to fall) and have smaller tires so they aren't as high up. On a  
big 55 cm frame you are sitting pretty high up there. It doesn't take  
much to flip off the thing.

The 55 cm carbon fiber e-bike with 700 mm wheels I built for someone  
is just too scary at 36 volts. The frame is so light and you sit so  
high on the thing. I don't even like test riding it, but that is what  
the customer wanted. Semi-recumbent and recumbent bikes are much more  
safer with the hub-motors, but on a study 26-inch bike frame they can  
be safe.

One thing all e-bikes should have to help prevent flips is the brake  
inhibit function so when you hit the brakes the controller turns off.  
I believe most of the OEM E-bikes have this built in.

Chip
http://www.electroscooterworks.com

On May 17, 2008, at 12:50 AM, ev-request@... wrote:

> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:40:42 -0700
> From: "Thomas Brannan" <tebrannan@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
> motor.
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Message-ID:
> <4646219e0805161240y54dc6660r44446a1571c582d4@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Please use all caution and safety equip. when riding these kind of
> bikes. My son is currently recovering
> from two broken elbows after a crash on his hub motor propelled bike.
> It will go 25 mph and
> should be thought of like a "motor"cycle (which it is), instead of
> like a bicycle.
> Regards,
> Tom Brannan
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 3:52 AM, richarddthomas
> <richarddthomas@...> wrote:
>> Hi Folks have been riding my recumbent Bike-E for a year now with  
>> a 36 volt
>> motorized kit from a company called Electrik Motion which includes  
>> all the
>> components you described. I paid $499.00 for the kit. I live in  
>> hilly
>> Connecticut, USA. An average ride for me is 20 -25 miles and  am  
>> left with
>> plenty of juice left after each ride. The bike will do 15 miles  
>> per hour on
>> the motor alone (without peddling)on a flat road for 12 miles. I  
>> use the
>> motor sparingly, only for assist on the big hills. This not only  
>> extends my
>> range, but allows a more even ride as far as exertion goes ,which  
>> puts me in
>> more control of my own escercise and I get to be out on th elocal  
>> bike, rail
>> trails in the fresh air almost daily. I have just passed the 30000  
>> mile mark
>> on my odometer.
>> Richard Thomas
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul holmes" <barbiesbla@...>
>> To: <ev@...>
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:55 PM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub  
>> motor.

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[Peter VanDerWal]

I'm going to disagree.

I like recumbents, but I don't believe they are safer than regular bikes.
The a foot or two makes very little difference when falling, it's your
forward momentum that does most of the damage.  In fact you could argue
that being closer to the ground means you have less time to prepare for
the impact (however, the difference is pretty miniscule).

Also riding recumbents takes a different set of reflexs compared to an
upright.  Until you learn the new reflexs riding a recumbent can be MORE
dangerous than an upright, especially if you rely on your old reflexs from
riding an upright.

Case in point:  I have a friend who is an avid cyclists.  He tried a
recumbent once and will never try them again.   On his first test ride he
was rather enjoying it, until he went around a corner at speed.  Because
of how close he was to the ground he felt like he was leaning to far and
by reflex put down a foot to "catch the fall".  His foot got yanked back
under the bike and broke his femur.  Compound fracture, bone sticking out
of his leg, not pretty.

Granted it was pilot error, but a simple reflex that is generally harmless
on an upright was disasterous on a recumbent.

Don't get me wrong, I like recumbents, and once you get used to them, I'd
say they are equally as safe, or unsafe, as a "safety bicycle".

The point is that recumbents are different and require a different set of
reflexs and muscle memory.  Until you learn those reflexs and muscle
memory, recumbents are going to be slightly more dangerous than uprights
(aka Safety Bicycles).

> One safety factor to consider with these hub motor bikes are the drop
> outs and the forks.
>
> Aluminum front forks aren't safe with these hubmotors, particularly
> the high torque ones.
>
> Probably the best frames to use are the cheap Wal-Mart variety bikes.
> They are usually pretty heavy and the forks and drops outs are sturdy
> enough to handle the torque.
>
> Electric recumbent and semi-recumbent bikes are probably the safest
> bikes for employing a hub motor. They are lower to the ground (not as
> far to fall) and have smaller tires so they aren't as high up. On a
> big 55 cm frame you are sitting pretty high up there. It doesn't take
> much to flip off the thing.
>
> The 55 cm carbon fiber e-bike with 700 mm wheels I built for someone
> is just too scary at 36 volts. The frame is so light and you sit so
> high on the thing. I don't even like test riding it, but that is what
> the customer wanted. Semi-recumbent and recumbent bikes are much more
> safer with the hub-motors, but on a study 26-inch bike frame they can
> be safe.
>
> One thing all e-bikes should have to help prevent flips is the brake
> inhibit function so when you hit the brakes the controller turns off.
> I believe most of the OEM E-bikes have this built in.
>
> Chip
> http://www.electroscooterworks.com
>
> On May 17, 2008, at 12:50 AM, ev-request@... wrote:
>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:40:42 -0700
>> From: "Thomas Brannan" <tebrannan@...>
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
>> motor.
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
>> Message-ID:
>> <4646219e0805161240y54dc6660r44446a1571c582d4@...>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Please use all caution and safety equip. when riding these kind of
>> bikes. My son is currently recovering
>> from two broken elbows after a crash on his hub motor propelled bike.
>> It will go 25 mph and
>> should be thought of like a "motor"cycle (which it is), instead of
>> like a bicycle.
>> Regards,
>> Tom Brannan
>>
>> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 3:52 AM, richarddthomas
>> <richarddthomas@...> wrote:
>>> Hi Folks have been riding my recumbent Bike-E for a year now with
>>> a 36 volt
>>> motorized kit from a company called Electrik Motion which includes
>>> all the
>>> components you described. I paid $499.00 for the kit. I live in
>>> hilly
>>> Connecticut, USA. An average ride for me is 20 -25 miles and  am
>>> left with
>>> plenty of juice left after each ride. The bike will do 15 miles
>>> per hour on
>>> the motor alone (without peddling)on a flat road for 12 miles. I
>>> use the
>>> motor sparingly, only for assist on the big hills. This not only
>>> extends my
>>> range, but allows a more even ride as far as exertion goes ,which
>>> puts me in
>>> more control of my own escercise and I get to be out on th elocal
>>> bike, rail
>>> trails in the fresh air almost daily. I have just passed the 30000
>>> mile mark
>>> on my odometer.
>>> Richard Thomas
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "paul holmes" <barbiesbla@...>
>>> To: <ev@...>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:55 PM
>>> Subject: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
>>> motor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
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[dave cover-2]

Chip, I hope we have some free time to talk bike talk at PODC. This may be
my next EV and I'd like to learn more about them.

Two weeks to go til PODC, Sounds like it will be a great turn out.

Dave Cover

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Chip Gribben <futurev@...> wrote:

> One safety factor to consider with these hub motor bikes are the drop
> outs and the forks.
>
> Aluminum front forks aren't safe with these hubmotors, particularly
> the high torque ones.
>
> Probably the best frames to use are the cheap Wal-Mart variety bikes.
> They are usually pretty heavy and the forks and drops outs are sturdy
> enough to handle the torque.
>
> Electric recumbent and semi-recumbent bikes are probably the safest
> bikes for employing a hub motor. They are lower to the ground (not as
> far to fall) and have smaller tires so they aren't as high up. On a
> big 55 cm frame you are sitting pretty high up there. It doesn't take
> much to flip off the thing.
>
> The 55 cm carbon fiber e-bike with 700 mm wheels I built for someone
> is just too scary at 36 volts. The frame is so light and you sit so
> high on the thing. I don't even like test riding it, but that is what
> the customer wanted. Semi-recumbent and recumbent bikes are much more
> safer with the hub-motors, but on a study 26-inch bike frame they can
> be safe.
>
> One thing all e-bikes should have to help prevent flips is the brake
> inhibit function so when you hit the brakes the controller turns off.
> I believe most of the OEM E-bikes have this built in.
>
> Chip
> http://www.electroscooterworks.com
>
> On May 17, 2008, at 12:50 AM, ev-request@... wrote:
>
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:40:42 -0700
> > From: "Thomas Brannan" <tebrannan@...>
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
> >       motor.
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <4646219e0805161240y54dc6660r44446a1571c582d4@...>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Please use all caution and safety equip. when riding these kind of
> > bikes. My son is currently recovering
> > from two broken elbows after a crash on his hub motor propelled bike.
> > It will go 25 mph and
> > should be thought of like a "motor"cycle (which it is), instead of
> > like a bicycle.
> > Regards,
> > Tom Brannan
> >
> > On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 3:52 AM, richarddthomas
> > <richarddthomas@...> wrote:
> >> Hi Folks have been riding my recumbent Bike-E for a year now with
> >> a 36 volt
> >> motorized kit from a company called Electrik Motion which includes
> >> all the
> >> components you described. I paid $499.00 for the kit. I live in
> >> hilly
> >> Connecticut, USA. An average ride for me is 20 -25 miles and  am
> >> left with
> >> plenty of juice left after each ride. The bike will do 15 miles
> >> per hour on
> >> the motor alone (without peddling)on a flat road for 12 miles. I
> >> use the
> >> motor sparingly, only for assist on the big hills. This not only
> >> extends my
> >> range, but allows a more even ride as far as exertion goes ,which
> >> puts me in
> >> more control of my own escercise and I get to be out on th elocal
> >> bike, rail
> >> trails in the fresh air almost daily. I have just passed the 30000
> >> mile mark
> >> on my odometer.
> >> Richard Thomas
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "paul holmes" <barbiesbla@...>
> >> To: <ev@...>
> >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:55 PM
> >> Subject: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
> >> motor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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[Will Beckett (becketts)]

While we are on this, I should share a recent California experience.  I have
be riding my electric recumbent since 2002 but there have been some recent
developments in Santa Cruz County and prompted me to look more closely at
the regulations.  To spare you all the details I ended up going to the CHP
who in turn sent pictures and details to Sacramento for clarification.  The
end result is that my electric bike is only allowed off-road and cannot be
used on than state roads.  In this state to be an official "electric bike",
it must not be able to go more than 20mph.  If it goes over that speed then
there are registration and licensing situations that require it to meet
federal standards.  I intend to continue using it, looking as much like a
bike as I can and hope that I don't get caught.  I expect I won't since I
have never been stopped and had regular contact with the police without them
asking any detailed questions about my bike.  I have a Crystalite hub motor,
on the rear wheel, that will allow my 20" wheeled bike to travel up to (and
a little over) 30mph, with Li-ion batteries and a DC to DC converter for
lights and other accessories. The only improvements I would like to make,
but it is too expensive, is to add disk brakes.   I have put over 10K miles
on it and really enjoy all the advantages but I am illegal.

-Will

-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of dave cover
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:09 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub motor.

Chip, I hope we have some free time to talk bike talk at PODC. This may be
my next EV and I'd like to learn more about them.

Two weeks to go til PODC, Sounds like it will be a great turn out.

Dave Cover

On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Chip Gribben <futurev@...> wrote:

> One safety factor to consider with these hub motor bikes are the drop
> outs and the forks.
>
> Aluminum front forks aren't safe with these hubmotors, particularly
> the high torque ones.
>
> Probably the best frames to use are the cheap Wal-Mart variety bikes.
> They are usually pretty heavy and the forks and drops outs are sturdy
> enough to handle the torque.
>
> Electric recumbent and semi-recumbent bikes are probably the safest
> bikes for employing a hub motor. They are lower to the ground (not as
> far to fall) and have smaller tires so they aren't as high up. On a
> big 55 cm frame you are sitting pretty high up there. It doesn't take
> much to flip off the thing.
>
> The 55 cm carbon fiber e-bike with 700 mm wheels I built for someone
> is just too scary at 36 volts. The frame is so light and you sit so
> high on the thing. I don't even like test riding it, but that is what
> the customer wanted. Semi-recumbent and recumbent bikes are much more
> safer with the hub-motors, but on a study 26-inch bike frame they can
> be safe.
>
> One thing all e-bikes should have to help prevent flips is the brake
> inhibit function so when you hit the brakes the controller turns off.
> I believe most of the OEM E-bikes have this built in.
>
> Chip
> http://www.electroscooterworks.com
>
> On May 17, 2008, at 12:50 AM, ev-request@... wrote:
>
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:40:42 -0700
> > From: "Thomas Brannan" <tebrannan@...>
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
> >       motor.
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <4646219e0805161240y54dc6660r44446a1571c582d4@...>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Please use all caution and safety equip. when riding these kind of
> > bikes. My son is currently recovering
> > from two broken elbows after a crash on his hub motor propelled bike.
> > It will go 25 mph and
> > should be thought of like a "motor"cycle (which it is), instead of
> > like a bicycle.
> > Regards,
> > Tom Brannan
> >
> > On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 3:52 AM, richarddthomas
> > <richarddthomas@...> wrote:
> >> Hi Folks have been riding my recumbent Bike-E for a year now with
> >> a 36 volt
> >> motorized kit from a company called Electrik Motion which includes
> >> all the
> >> components you described. I paid $499.00 for the kit. I live in
> >> hilly
> >> Connecticut, USA. An average ride for me is 20 -25 miles and  am
> >> left with
> >> plenty of juice left after each ride. The bike will do 15 miles
> >> per hour on
> >> the motor alone (without peddling)on a flat road for 12 miles. I
> >> use the
> >> motor sparingly, only for assist on the big hills. This not only
> >> extends my
> >> range, but allows a more even ride as far as exertion goes ,which
> >> puts me in
> >> more control of my own escercise and I get to be out on th elocal
> >> bike, rail
> >> trails in the fresh air almost daily. I have just passed the 30000
> >> mile mark
> >> on my odometer.
> >> Richard Thomas
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "paul holmes" <barbiesbla@...>
> >> To: <ev@...>
> >> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:55 PM
> >> Subject: [EVDL] Converting a bike to electric using a front hub
> >> motor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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_______________________________________________
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