Re: AIML <-> OWL ??

[mendicott]

http://www.mendicott.com/blog/2007/12/aiml-owl.html [Note, original contains many reference links.]

30 December 2007

AIML <-> OWL ??

Since I posted my original query to the pandorabots-general list in July, I'm beginning to understand the concepts involved a little better, thanks also to replies from this group and others, such as the protege-owl list.

In a comment to my recent blog entry ("I'm dreaming of RSS in => AIML out"), Jean-Claude Morand has mentioned that RSS 1.0 would probably be more conducive to conversion into RDF or AIML than RSS 2.0. He also mentioned that the Dublin Core metadata standard may eventually overtake RSS in primacy....

So, can XSL transforms really be used to translate between RSS and RDF, and between RDF and AIML?? My understanding at this point is that talking about AIML and OWL is a bit like apples and oranges.... Apparently the output from an OWL Reasoner would be in RDF? I have by now discovered the Robitron group and am finding that archive to be a rich resource....

What does this have to do with Pandorabots? I would like to address a brief question, in particular to Dr. Wallace... what do you see as the impediments to upgrading the Pandorabots service to include an OWL Reasoner (or in chaining it to another service that would provide the same function)? Surely you've considered this.... Where are the bottlenecks (other than time and money of course)? Is it an unreasonable expectation to be able to upload OWL ontologies much the same as we can upload AIML knowledgebases today?

As I have mentioned previously, one of my interests is creating knowledgebases on the fly using taxonomies. My belief is that quick and dirty knowledgebases are a more productive focus than pouring time and energy into trying to meet the requirements of the Turing test (another rant for another day....) Certainly with chatbots there is a substantial element of smoke and mirrors involved in any case.... One can always go back and refine as needed based on actual chat logs.

The next step for me will be to try and convert my most recent book, VAGABOND GLOBETROTTING 3, into a VagaBot.... I would like to hear from anyone with experience in converting books into AIML knowledgebases! My supposition is that a *good* book index is in effect a "taxonomy" of that book.... My guess is that I can use the index entries as patterns, and their referring sections as templates... to create at least the core of a knowledgebase. If more detail is needed then a concordance can always be applied to the book.

After that I hope to tackle creating quick and dirty AIML knowledgebases on the fly from RSS feed title and description fields... not in pursuit of the chimera of the Turing test, but simply to build a better bot. (Now, I wonder if anyone has ever created RSS from a book?!? ;^))


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[john kontos]

Dear Marcus
I have been proposing since 1992 to use a text as a
knowledge base without any representation but aided
only by an ontology.
You may care to read the attached paper.
Congratulations for the good "green" work.
A very happy new year for you
John from Athens Greece.
--- "Marcus L. Endicott" <mendicot@...> wrote:

> http://www.mendicott.com/blog/2007/12/aiml-owl.html
> [Note, original contains many reference links.]
>
> 30 December 2007
>
> AIML <-> OWL ??
>
> Since I posted my original query to the
> pandorabots-general list in July, I'm beginning to
> understand the concepts involved a little better,
> thanks also to replies from this group and others,
> such as the protege-owl list.
>
> In a comment to my recent blog entry ("I'm dreaming
> of RSS in => AIML out"), Jean-Claude Morand has
> mentioned that RSS 1.0 would probably be more
> conducive to conversion into RDF or AIML than RSS
> 2.0. He also mentioned that the Dublin Core metadata
> standard may eventually overtake RSS in primacy....
>
> So, can XSL transforms really be used to translate
> between RSS and RDF, and between RDF and AIML?? My
> understanding at this point is that talking about
> AIML and OWL is a bit like apples and oranges....
> Apparently the output from an OWL Reasoner would be
> in RDF? I have by now discovered the Robitron group
> and am finding that archive to be a rich
> resource....
>
> What does this have to do with Pandorabots? I would
> like to address a brief question, in particular to
> Dr. Wallace... what do you see as the impediments to
> upgrading the Pandorabots service to include an OWL
> Reasoner (or in chaining it to another service that
> would provide the same function)? Surely you've
> considered this.... Where are the bottlenecks (other
> than time and money of course)? Is it an
> unreasonable expectation to be able to upload OWL
> ontologies much the same as we can upload AIML
> knowledgebases today?
>
> As I have mentioned previously, one of my interests
> is creating knowledgebases on the fly using
> taxonomies. My belief is that quick and dirty
> knowledgebases are a more productive focus than
> pouring time and energy into trying to meet the
> requirements of the Turing test (another rant for
> another day....) Certainly with chatbots there is a
> substantial element of smoke and mirrors involved in
> any case.... One can always go back and refine as
> needed based on actual chat logs.
>
> The next step for me will be to try and convert my
> most recent book, VAGABOND GLOBETROTTING 3, into a
> VagaBot.... I would like to hear from anyone with
> experience in converting books into AIML
> knowledgebases! My supposition is that a *good* book
> index is in effect a "taxonomy" of that book.... My
> guess is that I can use the index entries as
> patterns, and their referring sections as
> templates... to create at least the core of a
> knowledgebase. If more detail is needed then a
> concordance can always be applied to the book.
>
> After that I hope to tackle creating quick and dirty
> AIML knowledgebases on the fly from RSS feed title
> and description fields... not in pursuit of the
> chimera of the Turing test, but simply to build a
> better bot. (Now, I wonder if anyone has ever
> created RSS from a book?!? ;^))
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the pandorabots-general mailing list
> To Post, reply to
> pandorabots-general@...
> Unsubscribe and change preferences at
>

http://list.pandorabots.com/mailman/listinfo/pandorabots-general
> Learn netiquette at
> http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html
> Learn to read at http://www.literacy.org/
>

      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Dr. Rich Wallace]

Converting RSS and FAQ entries into AIML both present the same problem.
Generally, the title (or question) is too specific, and the answer is too
long.   You can convert a specific FAQ question directly into an AIML
pattern, but the pattern might be so long and wordy that it is unlikely
anyone will ever ask a bot that exact question.

If the responses are too long, the bot will lose its apparent intelligence
and become a talking encylopedia.   We have done some work in the past
trying to come up with a "narration" tag in AIML, so that the bot can
reply with part of the answer, and then continue if the client says
something like "Go on" or "Tell me more."

More progress is being made on the pattern side.  I wrote recently in the
Alicebot blog about how to use multiple keywords in patterns, in order to
translate overly specific FAQ questions into in AIML:
http://alicebot.blogspot.com/2007/12/multiple-keywords-in-aiml.html

> http://www.mendicott.com/blog/2007/12/aiml-owl.html [Note, original
> contains many reference links.]
>
> 30 December 2007
>
> AIML <-> OWL ??
>
> Since I posted my original query to the pandorabots-general list in July,
> I'm beginning to understand the concepts involved a little better, thanks
> also to replies from this group and others, such as the protege-owl list.
>
> In a comment to my recent blog entry ("I'm dreaming of RSS in => AIML
> out"), Jean-Claude Morand has mentioned that RSS 1.0 would probably be
> more conducive to conversion into RDF or AIML than RSS 2.0. He also
> mentioned that the Dublin Core metadata standard may eventually overtake
> RSS in primacy....
>
> So, can XSL transforms really be used to translate between RSS and RDF,
> and between RDF and AIML?? My understanding at this point is that talking
> about AIML and OWL is a bit like apples and oranges.... Apparently the
> output from an OWL Reasoner would be in RDF? I have by now discovered the
> Robitron group and am finding that archive to be a rich resource....
>
> What does this have to do with Pandorabots? I would like to address a
> brief question, in particular to Dr. Wallace... what do you see as the
> impediments to upgrading the Pandorabots service to include an OWL
> Reasoner (or in chaining it to another service that would provide the same
> function)? Surely you've considered this.... Where are the bottlenecks
> (other than time and money of course)? Is it an unreasonable expectation
> to be able to upload OWL ontologies much the same as we can upload AIML
> knowledgebases today?
>
> As I have mentioned previously, one of my interests is creating
> knowledgebases on the fly using taxonomies. My belief is that quick and
> dirty knowledgebases are a more productive focus than pouring time and
> energy into trying to meet the requirements of the Turing test (another
> rant for another day....) Certainly with chatbots there is a substantial
> element of smoke and mirrors involved in any case.... One can always go
> back and refine as needed based on actual chat logs.
>
> The next step for me will be to try and convert my most recent book,
> VAGABOND GLOBETROTTING 3, into a VagaBot.... I would like to hear from
> anyone with experience in converting books into AIML knowledgebases! My
> supposition is that a *good* book index is in effect a "taxonomy" of that
> book.... My guess is that I can use the index entries as patterns, and
> their referring sections as templates... to create at least the core of a
> knowledgebase. If more detail is needed then a concordance can always be
> applied to the book.
>
> After that I hope to tackle creating quick and dirty AIML knowledgebases
> on the fly from RSS feed title and description fields... not in pursuit of
> the chimera of the Turing test, but simply to build a better bot. (Now, I
> wonder if anyone has ever created RSS from a book?!? ;^))
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the pandorabots-general mailing list
> To Post, reply to pandorabots-general@...
> Unsubscribe and change preferences at
> http://list.pandorabots.com/mailman/listinfo/pandorabots-general
> Learn netiquette at http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html
> Learn to read at http://www.literacy.org/
>

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[Scott Overmyer]

Along these same lines, has anyone been doing work on representing
procedural knowledge using AIML, and then having a bot converse about
step-by-step procedures (one step at a time, with a "Go on", etc.)?  Maybe I
can have my GRA add this capability to Program N.

Cheers,
Scotto...
--
Scott P. Overmyer, Ph.D.
Director, MSIS Program


-----Original Message-----
From:
pandorabots-general-bounces+scott.overmyer=baker.edu@...
[mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+scott.overmyer=baker.edu@...
s.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Rich Wallace
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:28 PM
To: pandorabots-general@...
Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] AIML <-> OWL ??

Converting RSS and FAQ entries into AIML both present the same problem.
Generally, the title (or question) is too specific, and the answer is too
long.   You can convert a specific FAQ question directly into an AIML
pattern, but the pattern might be so long and wordy that it is unlikely
anyone will ever ask a bot that exact question.

If the responses are too long, the bot will lose its apparent intelligence
and become a talking encylopedia.   We have done some work in the past
trying to come up with a "narration" tag in AIML, so that the bot can
reply with part of the answer, and then continue if the client says
something like "Go on" or "Tell me more."

More progress is being made on the pattern side.  I wrote recently in the
Alicebot blog about how to use multiple keywords in patterns, in order to
translate overly specific FAQ questions into in AIML:
http://alicebot.blogspot.com/2007/12/multiple-keywords-in-aiml.html

> http://www.mendicott.com/blog/2007/12/aiml-owl.html [Note, original
> contains many reference links.]
>
> 30 December 2007
>
> AIML <-> OWL ??
>
> Since I posted my original query to the pandorabots-general list in July,
> I'm beginning to understand the concepts involved a little better, thanks
> also to replies from this group and others, such as the protege-owl list.
>
> In a comment to my recent blog entry ("I'm dreaming of RSS in => AIML
> out"), Jean-Claude Morand has mentioned that RSS 1.0 would probably be
> more conducive to conversion into RDF or AIML than RSS 2.0. He also
> mentioned that the Dublin Core metadata standard may eventually overtake
> RSS in primacy....
>
> So, can XSL transforms really be used to translate between RSS and RDF,
> and between RDF and AIML?? My understanding at this point is that talking
> about AIML and OWL is a bit like apples and oranges.... Apparently the
> output from an OWL Reasoner would be in RDF? I have by now discovered the
> Robitron group and am finding that archive to be a rich resource....
>
> What does this have to do with Pandorabots? I would like to address a
> brief question, in particular to Dr. Wallace... what do you see as the
> impediments to upgrading the Pandorabots service to include an OWL
> Reasoner (or in chaining it to another service that would provide the same
> function)? Surely you've considered this.... Where are the bottlenecks
> (other than time and money of course)? Is it an unreasonable expectation
> to be able to upload OWL ontologies much the same as we can upload AIML
> knowledgebases today?
>
> As I have mentioned previously, one of my interests is creating
> knowledgebases on the fly using taxonomies. My belief is that quick and
> dirty knowledgebases are a more productive focus than pouring time and
> energy into trying to meet the requirements of the Turing test (another
> rant for another day....) Certainly with chatbots there is a substantial
> element of smoke and mirrors involved in any case.... One can always go
> back and refine as needed based on actual chat logs.
>
> The next step for me will be to try and convert my most recent book,
> VAGABOND GLOBETROTTING 3, into a VagaBot.... I would like to hear from
> anyone with experience in converting books into AIML knowledgebases! My
> supposition is that a *good* book index is in effect a "taxonomy" of that
> book.... My guess is that I can use the index entries as patterns, and
> their referring sections as templates... to create at least the core of a
> knowledgebase. If more detail is needed then a concordance can always be
> applied to the book.
>
> After that I hope to tackle creating quick and dirty AIML knowledgebases
> on the fly from RSS feed title and description fields... not in pursuit of
> the chimera of the Turing test, but simply to build a better bot. (Now, I
> wonder if anyone has ever created RSS from a book?!? ;^))
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the pandorabots-general mailing list
> To Post, reply to pandorabots-general@...
> Unsubscribe and change preferences at
> http://list.pandorabots.com/mailman/listinfo/pandorabots-general
> Learn netiquette at http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html
> Learn to read at http://www.literacy.org/
>

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[Stanley E. Honour]

I am doing something similar, I have selected a source material, but
rather than putting it in literally, I have studied to 'become' the main
character in the story; i.e. acting the role and building on all the
details of the original story.  The time line for the character is of
course after the end of the main story.  The added fun will be the new
adventures of xxxx.  Part of the challenge is to provide clues to the
users so they will be pulled into the story line.  Some have called this
"interactive storytelling"  I'd be interested to hear any discussion of
how to structure a story narrative with chatbot limitations in mind.
Lets assume your starting with a good story that is a mystery or
detective script.  (As in a actor's script, not code) To literally pull
the text into AIML is of course a great time saver, but what are the
common pitfalls?  What generally needs the most fixing?  I think your
last paragraph is problematic, regardless of what world you build,
better bots always hit more and more 'Turing' issues.  It can only be
moderated by molding and directing (smoke & Mirrors) the user's
expectations.  However I am optimistic that the core AI is getting
better all the time.

-----Original Message-----
From: pandorabots-general-bounces+stan=adnamis.org@...
[mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+stan=adnamis.org@...
m] On Behalf Of Dr. Rich Wallace
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:28 PM
To: pandorabots-general@...
Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] AIML <-> OWL ??

Converting RSS and FAQ entries into AIML both present the same problem.
Generally, the title (or question) is too specific, and the answer is
too
long.   You can convert a specific FAQ question directly into an AIML
pattern, but the pattern might be so long and wordy that it is unlikely
anyone will ever ask a bot that exact question.

If the responses are too long, the bot will lose its apparent
intelligence
and become a talking encylopedia.   We have done some work in the past
trying to come up with a "narration" tag in AIML, so that the bot can
reply with part of the answer, and then continue if the client says
something like "Go on" or "Tell me more."

More progress is being made on the pattern side.  I wrote recently in
the Alicebot blog about how to use multiple keywords in patterns, in
order to translate overly specific FAQ questions into in AIML:
http://alicebot.blogspot.com/2007/12/multiple-keywords-in-aiml.html

> http://www.mendicott.com/blog/2007/12/aiml-owl.html [Note, original
> contains many reference links.]
>
> 30 December 2007
>
> AIML <-> OWL ??
>
> Since I posted my original query to the pandorabots-general list in
> July, I'm beginning to understand the concepts involved a little
> better, thanks also to replies from this group and others, such as the

protege-owl list.
>
> In a comment to my recent blog entry ("I'm dreaming of RSS in => AIML
> out"), Jean-Claude Morand has mentioned that RSS 1.0 would probably be

> more conducive to conversion into RDF or AIML than RSS 2.0. He also
> mentioned that the Dublin Core metadata standard may eventually
> overtake RSS in primacy....
>
> So, can XSL transforms really be used to translate between RSS and
> RDF, and between RDF and AIML?? My understanding at this point is that

> talking about AIML and OWL is a bit like apples and oranges....
> Apparently the output from an OWL Reasoner would be in RDF? I have by
> now discovered the Robitron group and am finding that archive to be a
rich resource....
>
> What does this have to do with Pandorabots? I would like to address a
> brief question, in particular to Dr. Wallace... what do you see as the

> impediments to upgrading the Pandorabots service to include an OWL
> Reasoner (or in chaining it to another service that would provide the
> same function)? Surely you've considered this.... Where are the
> bottlenecks (other than time and money of course)? Is it an
> unreasonable expectation to be able to upload OWL ontologies much the
> same as we can upload AIML knowledgebases today?
>
> As I have mentioned previously, one of my interests is creating
> knowledgebases on the fly using taxonomies. My belief is that quick
> and dirty knowledgebases are a more productive focus than pouring time

> and energy into trying to meet the requirements of the Turing test
> (another rant for another day....) Certainly with chatbots there is a
> substantial element of smoke and mirrors involved in any case.... One
> can always go back and refine as needed based on actual chat logs.
>
> The next step for me will be to try and convert my most recent book,
> VAGABOND GLOBETROTTING 3, into a VagaBot.... I would like to hear from

> anyone with experience in converting books into AIML knowledgebases!
> My supposition is that a *good* book index is in effect a "taxonomy"
> of that book.... My guess is that I can use the index entries as
> patterns, and their referring sections as templates... to create at
> least the core of a knowledgebase. If more detail is needed then a
> concordance can always be applied to the book.
>
> After that I hope to tackle creating quick and dirty AIML
> knowledgebases on the fly from RSS feed title and description
> fields... not in pursuit of the chimera of the Turing test, but simply

> to build a better bot. (Now, I wonder if anyone has ever created RSS
> from a book?!? ;^))
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the pandorabots-general mailing list To Post, reply to
> pandorabots-general@...
> Unsubscribe and change preferences at
> http://list.pandorabots.com/mailman/listinfo/pandorabots-general
> Learn netiquette at http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html
> Learn to read at http://www.literacy.org/
>

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[Stanley E. Honour]

Actually I read this after my last email here.  A 'subsystem' of my
bot's character is that it cooks.
So I've had to think about this a bit.  "Procedural Knowledge" is also
known as an 'Expert system', one of the first more successful
applications of AI.  You should be able to find many, many examples of
AIML put to this use.  But Perhaps not so much in a chatbot forum.  One
thing that can trip you up is that different disciplines use different
verbiage when they mean the same thing.  The keywords expert system and
AIML should get you started.   P.S. Marcus thank you for the excellent
links ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: pandorabots-general-bounces+stan=adnamis.org@...
[mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+stan=adnamis.org@...
m] On Behalf Of Scott Overmyer
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:33 PM
To: pandorabots-general@...
Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] AIML <-> OWL ??

Along these same lines, has anyone been doing work on representing
procedural knowledge using AIML, and then having a bot converse about
step-by-step procedures (one step at a time, with a "Go on", etc.)?
Maybe I can have my GRA add this capability to Program N.

Cheers,
Scotto...
--
Scott P. Overmyer, Ph.D.
Director, MSIS Program


-----Original Message-----
From:
pandorabots-general-bounces+scott.overmyer=baker.edu@...
pandorabots-general-bounces+m
[mailto:pandorabots-general-bounces+scott.overmyer=baker.edu@...
abot
s.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Rich Wallace
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:28 PM
To: pandorabots-general@...
Subject: Re: [pandorabots-general] AIML <-> OWL ??

Converting RSS and FAQ entries into AIML both present the same problem.
Generally, the title (or question) is too specific, and the answer is
too
long.   You can convert a specific FAQ question directly into an AIML
pattern, but the pattern might be so long and wordy that it is unlikely
anyone will ever ask a bot that exact question.

If the responses are too long, the bot will lose its apparent
intelligence
and become a talking encylopedia.   We have done some work in the past
trying to come up with a "narration" tag in AIML, so that the bot can
reply with part of the answer, and then continue if the client says
something like "Go on" or "Tell me more."

More progress is being made on the pattern side.  I wrote recently in
the Alicebot blog about how to use multiple keywords in patterns, in
order to translate overly specific FAQ questions into in AIML:
http://alicebot.blogspot.com/2007/12/multiple-keywords-in-aiml.html

> http://www.mendicott.com/blog/2007/12/aiml-owl.html [Note, original
> contains many reference links.]
>
> 30 December 2007
>
> AIML <-> OWL ??
>
> Since I posted my original query to the pandorabots-general list in
> July, I'm beginning to understand the concepts involved a little
> better, thanks also to replies from this group and others, such as the

protege-owl list.
>
> In a comment to my recent blog entry ("I'm dreaming of RSS in => AIML
> out"), Jean-Claude Morand has mentioned that RSS 1.0 would probably be

> more conducive to conversion into RDF or AIML than RSS 2.0. He also
> mentioned that the Dublin Core metadata standard may eventually
> overtake RSS in primacy....
>
> So, can XSL transforms really be used to translate between RSS and
> RDF, and between RDF and AIML?? My understanding at this point is that

> talking about AIML and OWL is a bit like apples and oranges....
> Apparently the output from an OWL Reasoner would be in RDF? I have by
> now discovered the Robitron group and am finding that archive to be a
rich resource....
>
> What does this have to do with Pandorabots? I would like to address a
> brief question, in particular to Dr. Wallace... what do you see as the

> impediments to upgrading the Pandorabots service to include an OWL
> Reasoner (or in chaining it to another service that would provide the
> same function)? Surely you've considered this.... Where are the
> bottlenecks (other than time and money of course)? Is it an
> unreasonable expectation to be able to upload OWL ontologies much the
> same as we can upload AIML knowledgebases today?
>
> As I have mentioned previously, one of my interests is creating
> knowledgebases on the fly using taxonomies. My belief is that quick
> and dirty knowledgebases are a more productive focus than pouring time

> and energy into trying to meet the requirements of the Turing test
> (another rant for another day....) Certainly with chatbots there is a
> substantial element of smoke and mirrors involved in any case.... One
> can always go back and refine as needed based on actual chat logs.
>
> The next step for me will be to try and convert my most recent book,
> VAGABOND GLOBETROTTING 3, into a VagaBot.... I would like to hear from

> anyone with experience in converting books into AIML knowledgebases!
> My supposition is that a *good* book index is in effect a "taxonomy"
> of that book.... My guess is that I can use the index entries as
> patterns, and their referring sections as templates... to create at
> least the core of a knowledgebase. If more detail is needed then a
> concordance can always be applied to the book.
>
> After that I hope to tackle creating quick and dirty AIML
> knowledgebases on the fly from RSS feed title and description
> fields... not in pursuit of the chimera of the Turing test, but simply

> to build a better bot. (Now, I wonder if anyone has ever created RSS
> from a book?!? ;^))
>
>
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