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Re: [squeak-dev] Making morphs scriptable
by Karl Ramberg
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The issue with the TimesRepeatTile is that it is running atomic, no
other stuff happens while it is running, so it basically blocks the ui
and all other stuff and if you tell it to run 100.000 times it will make
users think the system crashed.
I don't have a fix for this. But I guess you could wrap the tile in a
process and hide the quite tricky stuff behind the scenes.
It would be cool if someone tackled this issue.
Also a related is runaway processes/ scripts in general in etoys that
can happen and could use a solution.
Also a etoy debugger would be cool, where you could step trough the
tiles and follow the execution.
This would help in understanding the system and why and where stuff happen.
Karl
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> Am 21.09.2008 um 03:51 schrieb Robert Hawley:
>
>> Hi Bert
>>
>> I wrote a timesRepeatMorph and put it on SqueakMap but have found the
>> one in OLPC etoys and that is better.
>
> Hehe - kudos to Scott :) But he also went through several iterations,
> see below.
>
>> Is there progress on the repository you mentioned before?
>
> Not that I know of - Michael would be the person to talk to about the
> details going forward.
>
>> Is there any problem with lifting the code for the OLPC timesRepeat
>> and putting it into SqueakMap so that it can be imported to Squeak
>> Morphic? (It would be good to have it there, but I don't want to
>> tread on someone else's toes unnecessarily).
>
> No, on the contrary, we'd love for the Etoys changes to be merged back
> into mainstream Squeak (and vice versa), but sadly there never seems
> to be enough time for doing that.
>
> Anyway, all the Etoys change-sets are mirrored here:
>
> http://etoys.laptop.org/src/changesets/
>
> and looking at the full ChangeLogs at
>
> http://etoys.laptop.org/src/
>
> indicates these to be relevant for times-repeat:
>
> === 1146timesRepeat-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesRepeat-sw
> Date: 20 December 2006
> Author: Scott Wallace
>
> Adds a 'Repeat' tile to etoys.
>
> Caution: All the indicated repetitions of the code in the Do section
> are run atomically when the Repeat complex is run. I
> t is tantalizing to contemplate an implementation in which the
> repetitions are distributed across successive ticks of a tick
> ing script, but that is not what we have here.
>
> NB There are still some glitches to be ironed out -- see below -- but
> the feature is usable.
>
> Obtain a Repeat...Times tile from either of two places:
> -- a Scriptor's menu
> -- the 'miscellaneous' category in a Viewer
>
> Still faulty:
> -- Drop-zone-highlight [green] feedback often not properly offered
> in the TIMES areas.
> -- Extension arrow is presented but nothing actually happens when
> you click on it yet.
>
> === 1381timesCarets-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesCarets-sw
> Date: 15 June 2007
> Author: Scott Wallace
>
> Makes the 'times' part of the Times-Repeat unit conducive to suffix
> arrow and re
> tract-arrow use.
>
> Because of the significant structure change, the new times-repeat tile
> is embodi
> ed in a new classs, TimesRepeatTile, as a replacement fot
> TimesRepeatMorph. For
> the moment at least we leave the latter in place, unchanged, for
> backward compa
> tibility, though this may turn out not to have been entirely wise.
>
> === 1385timesRepeatFixes-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesRepeatFixes-sw
> Date: 23 June 2007
> Author: Scott Wallace
>
> Avoid error when generating code for empty-Times-area case.
> Avoid error when Times area evaluates to non-integer.
> Note: The obsolete TimesRepeatMorph also has its code-generating code
> fixed her
> e.
>
> === 2005timesRepeatFixes-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesRepeatFixes-sw
> Date: 28 May 2008
> Author: Scott Wallace, Karl Ramberg
>
> TRAC 7044: TimesRepeat tile is not translated.
>
> This update makes the Times, Repeat, and Do labels on Times/Repeat
> tiles translatable, but it will take a while for actual t
> ranslations to catch up...
>
> Also fixes a bug that resulted in an unwanted pale green spacer on the
> Times tile, as well as a bug that resulted in the tem
> porary positioning of the extension arrow before the 2 on a nascent
> times tile (rather than after the 2, as expected) ... th
> anks to Karl for both of those fixes.
>
>
> - Bert -
>
>>
>> Yours
>>
>> Bob
>> (Robert Hawley)
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Bert Freudenberg [bert@...]
>> Sent: 10 July 2008 10:54
>> To: Robert Hawley
>> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Making morphs scriptable
>>
>> Am 10.07.2008 um 07:25 schrieb Robert Hawley:
>>
>>> There is an eToys scriptable DiceMorph and an eToys scriptable
>>> CalculatorMorph on SqueakMap. I'd welcome comments or bug reports.
>>>
>>> The calculator can be driven entirely from scripts, which makes it
>>> quite fun and potentially interesting for schools.
>>>
>>> The DiceMorph is a reasonably simple example of how to make a morph
>>> scriptable.
>>>
>>> I am surprised there aren't more eToys scriptable morphic objects
>>> available. Is there a coherent repository that I have yet to discover?
>>
>> No - the Etoys community is even less organized than the Squeak
>> community in general ;)
>>
>> Current Etoys discussion takes place at
>>
>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
>>
>> We plan to switch to a community-driven development style so now is
>> the perfect time to join the efforts. A public repository for
>> contributions will be one of the first steps.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>>
>
>
>
other stuff happens while it is running, so it basically blocks the ui
and all other stuff and if you tell it to run 100.000 times it will make
users think the system crashed.
I don't have a fix for this. But I guess you could wrap the tile in a
process and hide the quite tricky stuff behind the scenes.
It would be cool if someone tackled this issue.
Also a related is runaway processes/ scripts in general in etoys that
can happen and could use a solution.
Also a etoy debugger would be cool, where you could step trough the
tiles and follow the execution.
This would help in understanding the system and why and where stuff happen.
Karl
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> Am 21.09.2008 um 03:51 schrieb Robert Hawley:
>
>> Hi Bert
>>
>> I wrote a timesRepeatMorph and put it on SqueakMap but have found the
>> one in OLPC etoys and that is better.
>
> Hehe - kudos to Scott :) But he also went through several iterations,
> see below.
>
>> Is there progress on the repository you mentioned before?
>
> Not that I know of - Michael would be the person to talk to about the
> details going forward.
>
>> Is there any problem with lifting the code for the OLPC timesRepeat
>> and putting it into SqueakMap so that it can be imported to Squeak
>> Morphic? (It would be good to have it there, but I don't want to
>> tread on someone else's toes unnecessarily).
>
> No, on the contrary, we'd love for the Etoys changes to be merged back
> into mainstream Squeak (and vice versa), but sadly there never seems
> to be enough time for doing that.
>
> Anyway, all the Etoys change-sets are mirrored here:
>
> http://etoys.laptop.org/src/changesets/
>
> and looking at the full ChangeLogs at
>
> http://etoys.laptop.org/src/
>
> indicates these to be relevant for times-repeat:
>
> === 1146timesRepeat-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesRepeat-sw
> Date: 20 December 2006
> Author: Scott Wallace
>
> Adds a 'Repeat' tile to etoys.
>
> Caution: All the indicated repetitions of the code in the Do section
> are run atomically when the Repeat complex is run. I
> t is tantalizing to contemplate an implementation in which the
> repetitions are distributed across successive ticks of a tick
> ing script, but that is not what we have here.
>
> NB There are still some glitches to be ironed out -- see below -- but
> the feature is usable.
>
> Obtain a Repeat...Times tile from either of two places:
> -- a Scriptor's menu
> -- the 'miscellaneous' category in a Viewer
>
> Still faulty:
> -- Drop-zone-highlight [green] feedback often not properly offered
> in the TIMES areas.
> -- Extension arrow is presented but nothing actually happens when
> you click on it yet.
>
> === 1381timesCarets-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesCarets-sw
> Date: 15 June 2007
> Author: Scott Wallace
>
> Makes the 'times' part of the Times-Repeat unit conducive to suffix
> arrow and re
> tract-arrow use.
>
> Because of the significant structure change, the new times-repeat tile
> is embodi
> ed in a new classs, TimesRepeatTile, as a replacement fot
> TimesRepeatMorph. For
> the moment at least we leave the latter in place, unchanged, for
> backward compa
> tibility, though this may turn out not to have been entirely wise.
>
> === 1385timesRepeatFixes-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesRepeatFixes-sw
> Date: 23 June 2007
> Author: Scott Wallace
>
> Avoid error when generating code for empty-Times-area case.
> Avoid error when Times area evaluates to non-integer.
> Note: The obsolete TimesRepeatMorph also has its code-generating code
> fixed her
> e.
>
> === 2005timesRepeatFixes-sw.cs ===
> Change Set: timesRepeatFixes-sw
> Date: 28 May 2008
> Author: Scott Wallace, Karl Ramberg
>
> TRAC 7044: TimesRepeat tile is not translated.
>
> This update makes the Times, Repeat, and Do labels on Times/Repeat
> tiles translatable, but it will take a while for actual t
> ranslations to catch up...
>
> Also fixes a bug that resulted in an unwanted pale green spacer on the
> Times tile, as well as a bug that resulted in the tem
> porary positioning of the extension arrow before the 2 on a nascent
> times tile (rather than after the 2, as expected) ... th
> anks to Karl for both of those fixes.
>
>
> - Bert -
>
>>
>> Yours
>>
>> Bob
>> (Robert Hawley)
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Bert Freudenberg [bert@...]
>> Sent: 10 July 2008 10:54
>> To: Robert Hawley
>> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Making morphs scriptable
>>
>> Am 10.07.2008 um 07:25 schrieb Robert Hawley:
>>
>>> There is an eToys scriptable DiceMorph and an eToys scriptable
>>> CalculatorMorph on SqueakMap. I'd welcome comments or bug reports.
>>>
>>> The calculator can be driven entirely from scripts, which makes it
>>> quite fun and potentially interesting for schools.
>>>
>>> The DiceMorph is a reasonably simple example of how to make a morph
>>> scriptable.
>>>
>>> I am surprised there aren't more eToys scriptable morphic objects
>>> available. Is there a coherent repository that I have yet to discover?
>>
>> No - the Etoys community is even less organized than the Squeak
>> community in general ;)
>>
>> Current Etoys discussion takes place at
>>
>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
>>
>> We plan to switch to a community-driven development style so now is
>> the perfect time to join the efforts. A public repository for
>> contributions will be one of the first steps.
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>>
>
>
>
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