Re: [UI] UI plan, my thoughts

[Brad Fuller-2]

On Sat August 25 2007, Douglas Rollwitz wrote:

> Hi;
>
> I also would like a more standard UI development tool,
> one that we can use for "normal" UI development.  For
> a few years I extended a tool called BobsUI, trying to
> get it to that capability.  The more I added to it,
> the more I noticed some fundamental problems with the
> code however, and decided it needed a big refactoring.
> I dropped supporting it due to a lack of time, but I
> would like to pick it back up, and have others
> participate as well.  It needs a lot of work, but I
> also believe it can be a very good tool.
>
> While my goal for BobsUI is for it to be a standard
> business UI builder, it looks nothing like a standard
> UI builder.  This is because I was trying to improve
> on the standard UI builders, and have it fit into the
> Squeak paradigm.
>
> I will be creating a BobsUI page on the swiki soon,
> which will go over the design and future direction I
> would like it to have.  You can download BobsUI from
> the Squeak Map.
>
> Because of the work in BobsUI, I have come to the
> conclusion that the Moroh-HaloMorph-Halo relationship
> needs to be refactored.  I actually did this once a
> few years ago, but lost the code in a hard disk crash.
>  Currently I am working on recreating this code
> enhancement.  I will write another email on that work.

Note that there is a group that is cleaning up Morphic. You might contact Juan
Vuletich and join efforts.
Also: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3005

I don't know how current the group is. I'll CC them to this message.

brad
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[Juan Vuletich-4]

Hi Folks,

I was part of the "Morphic Team" that was in charge of the Morphic
packages in Squeak. I believe it was in the 3.7 or 3.8 days. My work
there was splitting the big Morphic package into Morphic, Morphic Extras
and Etoys. I also harvested some fixes from Jerome Peace.

My idea was to stop adding code and start removing code from Morphic. I
found little support for that from the Board and the community. And the
next level of cleanup of dependencies between these packages was beyond
my possibilities (and I believe beyond anyone's). So I quit and focused
on Morphic 3. This project is not (yet) focused on the kind of problems
you're talking about, but I'm interested in watching.

(BTW, I was not part of MCP).

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
www.jvuletich.org

Brad Fuller wrote:

> On Sat August 25 2007, Douglas Rollwitz wrote:
>  
>> Hi;
>>
>> I also would like a more standard UI development tool,
>> one that we can use for "normal" UI development.  For
>> a few years I extended a tool called BobsUI, trying to
>> get it to that capability.  The more I added to it,
>> the more I noticed some fundamental problems with the
>> code however, and decided it needed a big refactoring.
>> I dropped supporting it due to a lack of time, but I
>> would like to pick it back up, and have others
>> participate as well.  It needs a lot of work, but I
>> also believe it can be a very good tool.
>>
>> While my goal for BobsUI is for it to be a standard
>> business UI builder, it looks nothing like a standard
>> UI builder.  This is because I was trying to improve
>> on the standard UI builders, and have it fit into the
>> Squeak paradigm.
>>
>> I will be creating a BobsUI page on the swiki soon,
>> which will go over the design and future direction I
>> would like it to have.  You can download BobsUI from
>> the Squeak Map.
>>
>> Because of the work in BobsUI, I have come to the
>> conclusion that the Moroh-HaloMorph-Halo relationship
>> needs to be refactored.  I actually did this once a
>> few years ago, but lost the code in a hard disk crash.
>>  Currently I am working on recreating this code
>> enhancement.  I will write another email on that work.
>>    
>
> Note that there is a group that is cleaning up Morphic. You might contact Juan
> Vuletich and join efforts.
> Also: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3005
>
> I don't know how current the group is. I'll CC them to this message.
>
> brad
> _______________________________________________
> Morphic mailing list
> Morphic@...
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/morphic
>
>
>  

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[Brad Fuller-2]

Juan,

Thanks for bringing us up to date. That brings up a question.
Now that there is a SqueakLand image with the new Etoys, what is the direction
for including the newest (OLPC-based) Etoys in Squeak?
Anyone know?

brad

On Sat August 25 2007, Juan Vuletich wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> I was part of the "Morphic Team" that was in charge of the Morphic
> packages in Squeak. I believe it was in the 3.7 or 3.8 days. My work
> there was splitting the big Morphic package into Morphic, Morphic Extras
> and Etoys. I also harvested some fixes from Jerome Peace.
>
> My idea was to stop adding code and start removing code from Morphic. I
> found little support for that from the Board and the community. And the
> next level of cleanup of dependencies between these packages was beyond
> my possibilities (and I believe beyond anyone's). So I quit and focused
> on Morphic 3. This project is not (yet) focused on the kind of problems
> you're talking about, but I'm interested in watching.
>
> (BTW, I was not part of MCP).
>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
> www.jvuletich.org
>
> Brad Fuller wrote:
> > On Sat August 25 2007, Douglas Rollwitz wrote:
> >> Hi;
> >>
> >> I also would like a more standard UI development tool,
> >> one that we can use for "normal" UI development.  For
> >> a few years I extended a tool called BobsUI, trying to
> >> get it to that capability.  The more I added to it,
> >> the more I noticed some fundamental problems with the
> >> code however, and decided it needed a big refactoring.
> >> I dropped supporting it due to a lack of time, but I
> >> would like to pick it back up, and have others
> >> participate as well.  It needs a lot of work, but I
> >> also believe it can be a very good tool.
> >>
> >> While my goal for BobsUI is for it to be a standard
> >> business UI builder, it looks nothing like a standard
> >> UI builder.  This is because I was trying to improve
> >> on the standard UI builders, and have it fit into the
> >> Squeak paradigm.
> >>
> >> I will be creating a BobsUI page on the swiki soon,
> >> which will go over the design and future direction I
> >> would like it to have.  You can download BobsUI from
> >> the Squeak Map.
> >>
> >> Because of the work in BobsUI, I have come to the
> >> conclusion that the Moroh-HaloMorph-Halo relationship
> >> needs to be refactored.  I actually did this once a
> >> few years ago, but lost the code in a hard disk crash.
> >>  Currently I am working on recreating this code
> >> enhancement.  I will write another email on that work.
> >
> > Note that there is a group that is cleaning up Morphic. You might contact
> > Juan Vuletich and join efforts.
> > Also: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3005
> >
> > I don't know how current the group is. I'll CC them to this message.
> >
> > brad
> > _______________________________________________
> > Morphic mailing list
> > Morphic@...
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/morphic

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[Juan Vuletich-4]

Hi Bert,

Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2007, at 19:27 , Juan Vuletich wrote:
>
>>  I found little support for that from the Board
>
> You make that sound like the Board opposed any of this. This is not
> the case, the Board so far has stayed out of *any* technical advise,
> it is leaving these to the teams.
That's true.
> If anything, there was (unfortunately) little support from the Morphic
> Team.
That's not so true. I was the team leader, so support from the Morphic
Team basically meant support for myself. But what I wanted to do would
have broken badly back compatibility, and would have caused serious
trouble to Etoys users. It was a risky decision, with good and bad
consequences for many people. Too much for the Morphic Team (i.e. for
myself) to make. That's why I asked the community and the Board for
support. Basically, the Board didn't take a position, and the community
(almost all who said something) were against it.

I understand this, and it's ok. It is just that after that, I started
doing all this in my own fork, the Morphic 3.0 image.

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
www.jvuletich.org
>
> - Bert -
>

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