Re: [Kmymoney2-user] Kmymoney2 CVS version freezing with custom report

[Alvaro Soliverez]

Hello John,
I found where the problem is. It has to do with a bug in the annualized return calculation. It seems to have a problem with the way it calculates that (specifically, the period it has to calculate that for when it is over a year).
I have asked for help to people on how to properly fix it from a financial point of view. So, it may take a while, but now that you helped us isolate the problem, we will fix it.

Regards,
Alvaro

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 5:11 PM, John Timmins <jt_timmins@...> wrote:

Alvaro and Thomas,

       I have attached a copy of the anon version of the file to this e-mail. Thanks, as always for

all the great help that you provide.  It is truly appreciated.

                                John M. Timmins Jr




----- Original Message ----

From: Thomas Baumgart <thb@...>
To: John Timmins <jt_timmins@...>

Cc: Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 3:30:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Kmymoney2-user] Kmymoney2 CVS version freezing with custom report

Hi John,

on Sunday 13 July 2008 21:16, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello John,
> that report has a column that might freeze the application because it
> takes a long time to calculate. It would be quite cool if you could send
> me your file, anonymized, to try it here and make a fix for that
> problem. We have been talking recently about problems associated to
> having a lot of years of data, and your file would make a perfect
> example for finding some solutions to those issues.
>
> Can you compress it and send it to me or Thomas?

Please make that 'or' an 'and'. Thanks for your help.


--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
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more idiot-proof systems and nature producing bigger and better idiots.
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[Alvaro Soliverez]

Hello all,
I have debugged the test file. The culprit seems to be that at some point, given a combination of numbers, it enters an infinite loop.
It should come out of that eventually, but it would take a looooong time.

KSpread uses a similar function, but it seems to be more efficient, and more readable. And it has a condition to escape the function after a prudent number of iterations. :)
I could try to adapt that one to KMyMoney, what do you think?

Also, what are the copyright implications, since I am not copying line-by-line, but basing mine on the one of KSpread?
Of course it won't be a line-by-line copy, but pretty much.
I have already subscribed to koffice-devel mailing list, and I will try to ask there, but just in case...

Regards,
Alvaro

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...> wrote:

Hello John,
I didn't find the one used by OpenOffice, but KOffice has more readily available information.

It seems pretty much the same like the one we use for KMyMoney. I think it has the same limitation when working with timeframes over a year.

I will put something together tomorrow. I think taking the oldest date of the cash flow list (or the beginning of the report) and the last day of current year as base to calculate the rate might solve the issue, but it will take a couple of attempts to make sure.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:03 PM, John Timmins <jt_timmins@...> wrote:

       Alvaro,

                I was thinking that multiple transactions would create a problem with that equation also. I found a function on excel that is called XIRR that does exactly what we were looking for in kmymoney2, this function is also present in open office,  I am not savvy enough  to know how to see the formula they use for it but is there a possibility that the code could  give you some insight  into the function ?


                                                       John

----- Original Message ----
From: Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...>
To: John Timmins <jt_timmins@...>

Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Kmymoney2-user] Kmymoney2 CVS version freezing with custom report

Hello John,
How would this work with several cashflow items along a period?
You have the initial balance, ending balance, and also you can buy and sell investments along the way. How do you treat those in this formula?

Regards,
Alvaro

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:45 PM, John Timmins <jt_timmins@...> wrote:

Alvaro,

I was looking around for some other equations that would be able to calculate a IRR for an investment and came across this one.

APY or IRR = (Final return/Initial investment)^(365/days) - 1

        APY equals the final dollar amount divided by the initial investment (positive number for this equation) raised to 365 divided by the number of days the investment took to complete. Then you subtract one from the number you just calculated and multiple by 100 to get your percent APY..

       Do you think that it might be worth a shot to see if it will work with kmymoney2?

                                                             John

----- Original Message ----
From: Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...>
To: John Timmins <jt_timmins@...>

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:20:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Kmymoney2-user] Kmymoney2 CVS version freezing with custom report

John,
if you know your way around with internal rate of return (IRR) and net present value (NPV), you can be of much assistance.

Currently, the program iterates through different interest rates and calculates the NPV of each cash flow item for those. When the sum of the NPV for all cash flow items returns zero, that is the correct IRR, and that's ok.
However, as I told you, there is a problem in how it calculates the NPV.

Here is the current formula:

             value of a cash flow item
NPV = ---------------------------------------
           (1+rate)^(days between date of the cash flow item and current item / 365 )

^ means "power of"

My guess is that the problem lies in the power, where it divides days over 365. What would be the right way to calculate that when you have multi-year reports. Keep in mind that it should return an annualized return (if that is possible)

Regards,
Alvaro

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:13 AM, John Timmins <jt_timmins@...> wrote:

       Alvaro,
            
             Thanks for your quick response to the problem. I can offer my assistance with the math ( formula) for the calculations. however I do not know any programming.  If  I can be of any assistance please let me know


                                           John

----- Original Message ----
From: Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...>
To: John Timmins <jt_timmins@...>

Cc: Kmymoney2 development <kmymoney2-developer@...>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:31:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Kmymoney2-user] Kmymoney2 CVS version freezing with custom report

Hello John,
I found where the problem is. It has to do with a bug in the annualized return calculation. It seems to have a problem with the way it calculates that (specifically, the period it has to calculate that for when it is over a year).
I have asked for help to people on how to properly fix it from a financial point of view. So, it may take a while, but now that you helped us isolate the problem, we will fix it.

Regards,
Alvaro

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 5:11 PM, John Timmins <jt_timmins@...> wrote:

Alvaro and Thomas,

       I have attached a copy of the anon version of the file to this e-mail. Thanks, as always for

all the great help that you provide.  It is truly appreciated.

                                John M. Timmins Jr




----- Original Message ----

From: Thomas Baumgart <thb@...>
To: John Timmins <jt_timmins@...>

Cc: Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 3:30:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Kmymoney2-user] Kmymoney2 CVS version freezing with custom report

Hi John,

on Sunday 13 July 2008 21:16, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello John,
> that report has a column that might freeze the application because it
> takes a long time to calculate. It would be quite cool if you could send
> me your file, anonymized, to try it here and make a fix for that
> problem. We have been talking recently about problems associated to
> having a lot of years of data, and your file would make a perfect
> example for finding some solutions to those issues.
>
> Can you compress it and send it to me or Thomas?

Please make that 'or' an 'and'. Thanks for your help.


--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
-------------------------------------------------------------
Technology is a constant battle between manufacturers producing bigger and
more idiot-proof systems and nature producing bigger and better idiots.
-------------------------------------------------------------



     

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[Thomas Baumgart]

Hi all,

on Friday 18 July 2008 03:01, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello all,
> I have debugged the test file. The culprit seems to be that at some
> point, given a combination of numbers, it enters an infinite loop.
> It should come out of that eventually, but it would take a looooong
> time.
>
> KSpread uses a similar function, but it seems to be more efficient, and
> more readable. And it has a condition to escape the function after a
> prudent number of iterations. :)
> I could try to adapt that one to KMyMoney, what do you think?

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least, we should give it a try.

> Also, what are the copyright implications, since I am not copying
> line-by-line, but basing mine on the one of KSpread?
> Of course it won't be a line-by-line copy, but pretty much.
> I have already subscribed to koffice-devel mailing list, and I will try
> to ask there, but just in case...

I assume, KSpread also follows some open source licence (if not GPL). So
that shouldn't be a problem.

What we have done in the past in such cases can be seen eg. in
kMyMoneyDateTbl::weekNumber()  (kmymoney2/widgets/kmymoneydatetbl.cpp) as
well as the top of the same file.

Another one is here:
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/kmymoney2-api/html/classMyMoneyTransaction.html#e1

--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
-------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------


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[Alvaro Soliverez]

Strangely, KOffice, or at least this particular file seems to be GPL v2 ONLY. I will put in a separate file, so it is easier to spot.
There should be no problem in the future, since all of KDE seems to be going to GPL v2 or later, or GPL v3, but just to make sure.

I am talking to one of the developers, Stefan Nikolaus, of this class, just to make sure it is okay. He also confirmed me that XIRR is ok according to the OpenFormula spec, so that is another good point to use this same function.

Nobody wants Debian raising a warning because of this, right? I still remember that issue we had a few months ago. :))

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Thomas Baumgart <thb@...> wrote:

Hi all,

on Friday 18 July 2008 03:01, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello all,
> I have debugged the test file. The culprit seems to be that at some
> point, given a combination of numbers, it enters an infinite loop.
> It should come out of that eventually, but it would take a looooong
> time.
>
> KSpread uses a similar function, but it seems to be more efficient, and
> more readable. And it has a condition to escape the function after a
> prudent number of iterations. :)
> I could try to adapt that one to KMyMoney, what do you think?

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least, we should give it a try.

> Also, what are the copyright implications, since I am not copying
> line-by-line, but basing mine on the one of KSpread?
> Of course it won't be a line-by-line copy, but pretty much.
> I have already subscribed to koffice-devel mailing list, and I will try
> to ask there, but just in case...

I assume, KSpread also follows some open source licence (if not GPL). So
that shouldn't be a problem.

What we have done in the past in such cases can be seen eg. in
kMyMoneyDateTbl::weekNumber()  (kmymoney2/widgets/kmymoneydatetbl.cpp) as
well as the top of the same file.

Another one is here:
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/kmymoney2-api/html/classMyMoneyTransaction.html#e1

--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
-------------------------------------------------------------

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[Alvaro Soliverez]

Hello all,
I managed to adapt the function from KSpread to KMyMoney. I am not entirely sure it works, though the unit tests pass ok. But I am still waiting for an answer from KOffice about the license, so I cannot commit this until then.

I opened John's test file and I was able to run the reports with no dates, and KMyMoney didn't freeze. It took some time (about 20 secs or so), but it didn't freeze. Numbers didn't seem all that accurate in some cases, but I guess that is because the anon file numbers are so big that it overflows the MyMoneyMoney object. I have seen that happen before.

We will have to wait until I can commit and then run some more tests.

Regards,
Alvaro

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...> wrote:

Strangely, KOffice, or at least this particular file seems to be GPL v2 ONLY. I will put in a separate file, so it is easier to spot.
There should be no problem in the future, since all of KDE seems to be going to GPL v2 or later, or GPL v3, but just to make sure.

I am talking to one of the developers, Stefan Nikolaus, of this class, just to make sure it is okay. He also confirmed me that XIRR is ok according to the OpenFormula spec, so that is another good point to use this same function.

Nobody wants Debian raising a warning because of this, right? I still remember that issue we had a few months ago. :))

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Thomas Baumgart <thb@...> wrote:

Hi all,

on Friday 18 July 2008 03:01, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello all,
> I have debugged the test file. The culprit seems to be that at some
> point, given a combination of numbers, it enters an infinite loop.
> It should come out of that eventually, but it would take a looooong
> time.
>
> KSpread uses a similar function, but it seems to be more efficient, and
> more readable. And it has a condition to escape the function after a
> prudent number of iterations. :)
> I could try to adapt that one to KMyMoney, what do you think?

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least, we should give it a try.

> Also, what are the copyright implications, since I am not copying
> line-by-line, but basing mine on the one of KSpread?
> Of course it won't be a line-by-line copy, but pretty much.
> I have already subscribed to koffice-devel mailing list, and I will try
> to ask there, but just in case...

I assume, KSpread also follows some open source licence (if not GPL). So
that shouldn't be a problem.

What we have done in the past in such cases can be seen eg. in
kMyMoneyDateTbl::weekNumber()  (kmymoney2/widgets/kmymoneydatetbl.cpp) as
well as the top of the same file.

Another one is here:
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/kmymoney2-api/html/classMyMoneyTransaction.html#e1

--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
-------------------------------------------------------------

A crash turns an expensive computer into a simple stone!
-------------------------------------------------------------

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[Alvaro Soliverez]

Hello all,
I got the ok from Sascha Pfau, from KOffice, to relicense his code to GPL v2 or later and include it in KMyMoney. I am about to commit it. Thomas, can you check the copyright notice later? I added a comment, but not the original license since it was agreed to relicense, so the original one was no longer meaningful.

Now, please test it and let me know of any issues. We can always go back to trying to fix the old one, but since this one is "shared" with KOffice, it is easier to maintain, and it also complies with OpenFormula, which is a reassurance.

Thank you all for your patience and help with testing and ideas to solve this issue.

Regards,
Alvaro

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:57 PM, Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...> wrote:

Hello all,
I managed to adapt the function from KSpread to KMyMoney. I am not entirely sure it works, though the unit tests pass ok. But I am still waiting for an answer from KOffice about the license, so I cannot commit this until then.

I opened John's test file and I was able to run the reports with no dates, and KMyMoney didn't freeze. It took some time (about 20 secs or so), but it didn't freeze. Numbers didn't seem all that accurate in some cases, but I guess that is because the anon file numbers are so big that it overflows the MyMoneyMoney object. I have seen that happen before.

We will have to wait until I can commit and then run some more tests.

Regards,
Alvaro

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Alvaro Soliverez <asoliverez@...> wrote:

Strangely, KOffice, or at least this particular file seems to be GPL v2 ONLY. I will put in a separate file, so it is easier to spot.
There should be no problem in the future, since all of KDE seems to be going to GPL v2 or later, or GPL v3, but just to make sure.

I am talking to one of the developers, Stefan Nikolaus, of this class, just to make sure it is okay. He also confirmed me that XIRR is ok according to the OpenFormula spec, so that is another good point to use this same function.

Nobody wants Debian raising a warning because of this, right? I still remember that issue we had a few months ago. :))

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Thomas Baumgart <thb@...> wrote:

Hi all,

on Friday 18 July 2008 03:01, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello all,
> I have debugged the test file. The culprit seems to be that at some
> point, given a combination of numbers, it enters an infinite loop.
> It should come out of that eventually, but it would take a looooong
> time.
>
> KSpread uses a similar function, but it seems to be more efficient, and
> more readable. And it has a condition to escape the function after a
> prudent number of iterations. :)
> I could try to adapt that one to KMyMoney, what do you think?

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least, we should give it a try.

> Also, what are the copyright implications, since I am not copying
> line-by-line, but basing mine on the one of KSpread?
> Of course it won't be a line-by-line copy, but pretty much.
> I have already subscribed to koffice-devel mailing list, and I will try
> to ask there, but just in case...

I assume, KSpread also follows some open source licence (if not GPL). So
that shouldn't be a problem.

What we have done in the past in such cases can be seen eg. in
kMyMoneyDateTbl::weekNumber()  (kmymoney2/widgets/kmymoneydatetbl.cpp) as
well as the top of the same file.

Another one is here:
http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/kmymoney2-api/html/classMyMoneyTransaction.html#e1

--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
-------------------------------------------------------------

A crash turns an expensive computer into a simple stone!
-------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Thomas Baumgart]

Hi all,

on Saturday 19 July 2008 17:56, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:

> Hello all,
> I got the ok from Sascha Pfau, from KOffice, to relicense his code to
> GPL v2 or later and include it in KMyMoney. I am about to commit it.
> Thomas, can you check the copyright notice later? I added a comment, but
> not the original license since it was agreed to relicense, so the
> original one was no longer meaningful.

That looks perfectly ok. Since the whole code is under GPLv2 or later this
part is now too. Mentioning Sascha in the header is good.

> Now, please test it and let me know of any issues. We can always go back
> to trying to fix the old one, but since this one is "shared" with
> KOffice, it is easier to maintain, and it also complies with
> OpenFormula, which is a reassurance.
>
> Thank you all for your patience and help with testing and ideas to solve
> this issue.
>
> Regards,
> Alvaro
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:57 PM, Alvaro Soliverez
> <asoliverez@...>
>
> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> > I managed to adapt the function from KSpread to KMyMoney. I am not
> > entirely sure it works, though the unit tests pass ok. But I am still
> > waiting for an answer from KOffice about the license, so I cannot
> > commit this until then.
> >
> > I opened John's test file and I was able to run the reports with no
> > dates, and KMyMoney didn't freeze. It took some time (about 20 secs or
> > so), but it didn't freeze. Numbers didn't seem all that accurate in
> > some cases, but I guess that is because the anon file numbers are so
> > big that it overflows the MyMoneyMoney object. I have seen that happen
> > before.
> >
> > We will have to wait until I can commit and then run some more tests.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alvaro
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Alvaro Soliverez
> > <asoliverez@...>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Strangely, KOffice, or at least this particular file seems to be GPL
> >> v2 ONLY. I will put in a separate file, so it is easier to spot.
> >> There should be no problem in the future, since all of KDE seems to
> >> be going to GPL v2 or later, or GPL v3, but just to make sure.
> >>
> >> I am talking to one of the developers, Stefan Nikolaus, of this
> >> class, just to make sure it is okay. He also confirmed me that XIRR
> >> is ok according to the OpenFormula spec, so that is another good
> >> point to use this same function.
> >>
> >> Nobody wants Debian raising a warning because of this, right? I still
> >> remember that issue we had a few months ago. :))
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Thomas Baumgart <thb@...>
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> on Friday 18 July 2008 03:01, Alvaro Soliverez wrote:
> >>> > Hello all,
> >>> > I have debugged the test file. The culprit seems to be that at
> >>> > some point, given a combination of numbers, it enters an infinite
> >>> > loop. It should come out of that eventually, but it would take a
> >>> > looooong time.
> >>> >
> >>> > KSpread uses a similar function, but it seems to be more
> >>> > efficient, and more readable. And it has a condition to escape the
> >>> > function after a prudent number of iterations. :)
> >>> > I could try to adapt that one to KMyMoney, what do you think?
> >>>
> >>> Sounds like a good idea to me. At least, we should give it a try.
> >>>
> >>> > Also, what are the copyright implications, since I am not copying
> >>> > line-by-line, but basing mine on the one of KSpread?
> >>> > Of course it won't be a line-by-line copy, but pretty much.
> >>> > I have already subscribed to koffice-devel mailing list, and I
> >>> > will try to ask there, but just in case...
> >>>
> >>> I assume, KSpread also follows some open source licence (if not
> >>> GPL). So that shouldn't be a problem.
> >>>
> >>> What we have done in the past in such cases can be seen eg. in
> >>> kMyMoneyDateTbl::weekNumber()
> >>> (kmymoney2/widgets/kmymoneydatetbl.cpp) as well as the top of the
> >>> same file.
> >>>
> >>> Another one is here:
> >>>
> >>> http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/kmymoney2-api/html/classMyMoneyTran
> >>>saction.html#e1
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Thomas Baumgart
> >>>
> >>> GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> A crash turns an expensive computer into a simple stone!
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
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--

Regards

Thomas Baumgart

GPG-FP: E55E D592 F45F 116B 8429   4F99 9C59 DB40 B75D D3BA
-------------------------------------------------------------
With every day I come closer to the grave and learn something new.
It all happens because I have wandered around too much and stumbled into
the Linux world - which is a fantastic place to be! (Algis Kabaila)
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