Printed solar panels

[Jinx-4]

Following up on a piece I saw on Discovery's Planet Green

http://www.konarka.com/index.php/site/press/konarka_announces_first_ever_dem
onstration_of_inkjet_printed_solar_cells

The company has a plastic-fullerene (Bucky Balls) mix that can be
printed. They're very close to volume production. What I saw in
the program were about 30mm wide strips of clear brown-tint on
a continuous water-clear plastic backing. The process seemed
like that for developing photographic film or printing a newspaper.
The substrate goes in one end, around a few rollers, and comes out
as a thin flexible finished product a short time later

Spokesman (the boss I think - Mr Konarka ?) claimed that price
should come down to 10c per watt, versus $2.50 per watt for
current technology, ie panels. One other big improvement is that
the film is omni-directionally receptive and doesn't need to track
the sun. He claimed that it's efficient enough to work under house
lighting, for charging, powering Connect 4 games, etc

Picture and more

Startup Makes Cheap Solar Film Cells ... With an Inkjet Printer

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253464.html

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[Bob Blick-4]

This belongs in TECH - it's a forward-looking press release for
something you can't do.

Thanks, Bob

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:55:41 +1200, "Jinx" <joecolquitt@...>
said:

> Following up on a piece I saw on Discovery's Planet Green
>
> http://www.konarka.com/index.php/site/press/konarka_announces_first_ever_dem
> onstration_of_inkjet_printed_solar_cells
>
> The company has a plastic-fullerene (Bucky Balls) mix that can be
> printed. They're very close to volume production. What I saw in
> the program were about 30mm wide strips of clear brown-tint on
> a continuous water-clear plastic backing. The process seemed
> like that for developing photographic film or printing a newspaper.
> The substrate goes in one end, around a few rollers, and comes out
> as a thin flexible finished product a short time later
>
> Spokesman (the boss I think - Mr Konarka ?) claimed that price
> should come down to 10c per watt, versus $2.50 per watt for
> current technology, ie panels. One other big improvement is that
> the film is omni-directionally receptive and doesn't need to track
> the sun. He claimed that it's efficient enough to work under house
> lighting, for charging, powering Connect 4 games, etc
>
> Picture and more
>
> Startup Makes Cheap Solar Film Cells ... With an Inkjet Printer
>
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4253464.html

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I thought the latter part of your description rather odd - that is till
I remember the ongoing discussion on [PIC].  :-)

While at the Dayton Hamvention, I bought a flexible solar panel that
rolls up like a poster.  It's good for 12v at about 5w, which should
certainly be good enough for the brightest LED matrix.  :-)

Joe



Jinx wrote:

> He claimed that it's efficient enough to work under house
> lighting, for charging, powering Connect 4 games, etc
>
>  

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[William "Chops" Westfield]

On Jul 15, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Jinx wrote:

> One other big improvement is that the film is omni-directionally  
> receptive and doesn't need to track the sun.

Claims like this set off alarms in my head.  Regular solar cells, and  
certainly thermal collectors of the "black pipe" variety aren't  
particularly "directional", are they?  And they still benefit from  
tracking...

BillW

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[Jinx-4]

> I bought a flexible solar panel that rolls up like a poster.  It's good
> for 12v at about 5w

Really ? I didn't know anything like that was on the market. When
you say 'flexible', is that an array of small panels that can be rolled
up ? Like spacecraft/satellites/rovers use ?

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[Nicola Perotto]

Here an example:
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_82&products_id=466


Jinx wrote:
>> I bought a flexible solar panel that rolls up like a poster.  It's good
>> for 12v at about 5w
>>    
>
> Really ? I didn't know anything like that was on the market. When
> you say 'flexible', is that an array of small panels that can be rolled
> up ? Like spacecraft/satellites/rovers use ?
>
>  

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See
http://store.altenergystore.com/Solar-Panels/Flexible-Rollable-Solar-Panels/PowerFilm-Inc-9W12V-Thin-Film-Solar-Panel/p705/?source=froogle

The whole panel is a flexible - cells and all.  It's as though the
individual cells are printed on rubber.

Joe


Jinx wrote:
>> I bought a flexible solar panel that rolls up like a poster.  It's good
>> for 12v at about 5w
>>    
>
> Really ? I didn't know anything like that was on the market. When
> you say 'flexible', is that an array of small panels that can be rolled
> up ? Like spacecraft/satellites/rovers use ?
>
>  

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Nicola Perotto wrote:
> Here an example:
> http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_82&products_id=466
>
>  
Yes, that's exactly what I bought.  Don't exactly know what I'm going to
do with it yet, but it was just too cool to pass up.

Joe

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[Jinx-4]

> http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_82&products_id=466

Nifty

Flexible solar panels and flexible batteries. The World Of Tomorrow. Today

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[Sean Breheny]

This set off alarms for me, too. The reason why it helps to track the
sun is not because of any directionality of the panel. It is because
you want to maximize the amount of watts per square meter which the
panel receives. The closer you can make the line of sight to the sun
match up with the vector perpendicular to the solar panel surface, the
more light you receive. Think about it from the sun's perspective:
when the panel is way off, the sun would only "see" a thin line, but
when the panel is broadside to the sun, the panel appears as big as it
can get.

Sean


On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 5:02 PM, William Chops Westfield <westfw@...> wrote:

>
> On Jul 15, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Jinx wrote:
>
>> One other big improvement is that the film is omni-directionally
>> receptive and doesn't need to track the sun.
>
> Claims like this set off alarms in my head.  Regular solar cells, and
> certainly thermal collectors of the "black pipe" variety aren't
> particularly "directional", are they?  And they still benefit from
> tracking...
>
> BillW
>
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[CDB-3]

Whilst it does sound 'dodgy' I'm not so sure, here is a link from
yesterdays BBC webpage using a solar film:  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7501476.stm

and I recall the CSIRO tried unsuccessfully to get funds to further
research into a flexible and new way of depositing solar cells onto
material.

Colin

:: This set off alarms for me, too. The reason why it helps to track
:: the
:: sun is not because of any directionality of the panel. It is
:: because
:: you want to maximize the amount of watts per square meter which the
:: panel receives. The closer you can make the line of sight to the
:: sun
:: match up with the vector perpendicular to the solar panel surface,
:: the
:: more light you receive. Think about it from the sun's perspective:
:: when the panel is way off, the sun would only "see" a thin line,
:: but
:: when the panel is broadside to the sun, the panel appears as big
:: as it
:: can get.
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[Cedric Chang-2]

I am excited to see solar cells of all persuasions popping up.  I  
want to build that 10 square mile solar farm that converts sun energy  
into hydrogen.   Some barren desert land covered with solar cells or  
solar converters.  Water is piped in to supply the raw materials.  
Oxygen and Hydrogen are produced directly from solar or are produced  
from electricity that was produced from solar.  Oxygen and hydrogen  
are piped out or trucked out to be used for nefarious purposes.  
Flora and fauna live in the shade provided by the solar units.  
Individuals invest in modular solar units that are set up on the  
solar farm land.  Sort of like owning a alt-energy oil well.  Lots of  
owners of the modular units.  I would own the land.

cc
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[Cedric Chang-2]

Maybe if you used glass with a treated surface in a half-cylinder  
shape that directed the solar energy to edge-mounted solar cells, you  
would get decent efficiency without having to move anything.
cc

> On Jul 15, 2008, at 6:21 PM, cdb wrote:
>
> Whilst it does sound 'dodgy' I'm not so sure, here is a link from
> yesterdays BBC webpage using a solar film:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7501476.stm
>
> and I recall the CSIRO tried unsuccessfully to get funds to further
> research into a flexible and new way of depositing solar cells onto
> material.
>
> Colin
>
> :: This set off alarms for me, too. The reason why it helps to track
> :: the
> :: sun is not because of any directionality of the panel. It is
> :: because
> :: you want to maximize the amount of watts per square meter which the
> :: panel receives. The closer you can make the line of sight to the
> :: sun
> :: match up with the vector perpendicular to the solar panel surface,
> :: the
> :: more light you receive. Think about it from the sun's perspective:
> :: when the panel is way off, the sun would only "see" a thin line,
> :: but
> :: when the panel is broadside to the sun, the panel appears as big
> :: as it
> :: can get.
> --
> cdb, colin@... on 16/07/2008
>
> Web presence: www.btech-online.co.uk
>
> Hosted by:  www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359
>
> Friendship multiplies the good of life and divides the evil.
> Baltasar Gracian
>

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[Apptech]

>> I bought a flexible solar panel that rolls up like a
>> poster.  It's good
>> for 12v at about 5w

> Really ? I didn't know anything like that was on the
> market. When
> you say 'flexible', is that an array of small panels that
> can be rolled
> up ? Like spacecraft/satellites/rovers use ?

Largely being sold to big users who may be selling it to end
users, but most is going into buildings and eg yachts.

Amorphous silicon and other thin film. Flexible substrates.
Can roll up. Can even crumple it if you must.

Silicon is fighting back. ANU (Australian National
University, Canberra) has "sliver cells" - micro machine a
silicon wafer and process sides of slots then break off
slivers. Very thin, flexible, cheaper. Higher efficiency
that thing film competitors so far.

Gargoyle anu sliver silicon solar
Hmm - from a private email yesterday - see below



        Russell

__________________


... CIGS.
It seems that people are trying very hard with it but that
there are practical issues still.

Base efficiency is below that of Silicon crystalline but
reasonable.
The gain is that it is a deposition technique (several ways
of doing it) and thin film allowing low use of materials and
low cost per Watt.

BUT just when all the new techniques seem to be looking like
replacing Silicon crystalline it fights back. The ANU have
long been at or near the front of world solar cell
technology and they, and probably many others, are working
on sliced silicon crystalline cells which yield good
efficiency, flexible cells, very very thin materials, semi
transparent cells (through spacing slivers), excellent
material utilisation and fully symmetric double sided cells.
They call one version of it "sliver technology"

Full paper on one method
65-MICRON THIN MONOCRYSTALLINE SILICON SOLAR CELL
TECHNOLOGY ALLOWING 12-FOLD REDUCTION IN SILICON USAGE

        http://solar.anu.edu.au/docs/65micronthinmonosi.pdf

Article style paper on sliver technology.
Invented in 2000 !!

    http://solar.anu.edu.au/docs/0603_Sliver_technology.pdf

and

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/solar-cells-wait-for-their-day-in-the-sun/2007/04/29/1177787972754.html

IEEE paper - abstract only

        http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1305252&isnumber=28987


Epilift
Lowish information article.
Layers are grown and removed

        http://www.questacon.edu.au/html/assets/pdf/Sensational_Solar.pdf


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[Jake Anderson-2]

If the material is cheap enough then it would probably be cheaper and
more reliable to just cover the total area available for your solar farm
rather than trying to put in a bunch of steerable panels.

that makes it "omnidirectional" I spose.

William Chops Westfield wrote:

> On Jul 15, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Jinx wrote:
>
>  
>> One other big improvement is that the film is omni-directionally  
>> receptive and doesn't need to track the sun.
>>    
>
> Claims like this set off alarms in my head.  Regular solar cells, and  
> certainly thermal collectors of the "black pipe" variety aren't  
> particularly "directional", are they?  And they still benefit from  
> tracking...
>
> BillW
>
>  

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[William "Chops" Westfield]

On Jul 15, 2008, at 6:22 PM, Cedric Chang wrote:

> Maybe if you used glass with a treated surface in a half-cylinder
> shape that directed the solar energy to edge-mounted solar cells, you
> would get decent efficiency without having to move anything.

You probably get "decent efficiency" with a flat panel pointing  
straight up.  But that's not the same as "maximum efficiency."  
Perhaps the real trick is to get ENOUGH output (efficiency be  
damned), in a "small enough" area, at low enough cost, rather than  
maximal efficiency.  I think you could prove that a flat plate has  
the best efficiency of any non-tracking shape?

BillW

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[Apptech]

> Flora and fauna live in the shade provided by the solar
> units.

People could live in the shade created.

> I would own the land.

Tell us when you've bought it and we'll see how it goes.


            RM

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[CDB-3]

:: Silicon is fighting back. ANU (Australian National
:: University, Canberra) has "sliver cells" - micro machine a
:: silicon wafer and process sides of slots then break off
:: slivers. Very thin, flexible, cheaper. Higher efficiency
:: that thing film competitors so far.

Aha that's the one I thought was CSIRO, anyhow the then government
didn't think it important enough technology to warrant further grants
or investment.

Colin
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[Apptech]

> :: Silicon is fighting back. ANU (Australian National
> :: University, Canberra) has "sliver cells" - micro
> machine a
> :: silicon wafer and process sides of slots then break off
> :: slivers. Very thin, flexible, cheaper. Higher
> efficiency
> :: that thing film competitors so far.
>
> Aha that's the one I thought was CSIRO, anyhow the then
> government
> didn't think it important enough technology to warrant
> further grants
> or investment.

They have two systems. Both produce very thin small sized
slices of Silicon cells.

One feature of many - because of the small size, a set of
slivers can be joined in series to make a higher voltage
panel and then paralleled with others to make a high voltage
panel. This has the disadvantage of requiring an isolation
diode per small panel BUT the advantage of adding immunity
to shadowing as shadows just drop out one or more small
cells. In present arrangements where all cells are in
series, shadowing one cell reduces total panel output
markedly.

The 2 sided cells could be mirror driven from the bottom (or
both sides for ~~= double output.

The basic system was devised in 2000!. Just getting to
market. Mechanically flexible!.


        Russell

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