Nabble - Photo Forum

Re: A challenge

2008-10-11T09:30:09Z

Well I would want more information before I even began to consider this project. First is how many surfers are involved?? You said till sunlight ends as the end of the competition, is the winners presentation done after dark? Is a boat available for you to get in the water and get close?

What happens if you get sick?

--- On Sat, 10/11/08, karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...> wrote:

> From: karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...>
> Subject: Re: A challenge
> To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@...>
> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 11:11 AM
> Mario Pires writes:
>
> > On the debate issue, i have a challenge to pose you
> all.
> >
> > This is a situation that i faced in the past, and i
> solved it .
>
> you did well to solve this one - I hope they paid you
> HEAPS!
>
> :)
>
> > But i would like to know how would you handle the
> situation if you came
> > across it.
> >
> > The Client: Sport event organizer
> > The Event: National Surf Competition
> > The Timetable: A weekend a month (February trough
> September) Start of the
> > event: 08:00 AM - End (until sunlight ends, or 8:00
> PM)
> > The Location: Several beaches on the country coast
> > The Brief: You have to get photos of: Beach,
> Contestants, Surf action (Very
> > important) , Public, Winners, Promotional material on
> the event location.
> > Every surfer photographed should be with the sponsor
> logos visible.
> > The surfers should be photographed when they are
> entering the water, when
> > leaving the water. Staff should also be photographed,
> specially the jury.
> > The Material available:
> > -1 SLR Camera
> > - 28 mm 2.8
> > - 50 mm 1.4
> > - 60-300 4.5-5.6
> > - 1 light tripod
> >
> >
> > What would you do ?
> > Is this enough ?
> > Remember that on some surf spots the surfer are way
> out in the water.
>
>
> I've done a small amount, but a 500mm lens for beach
> shots was quickly exchanged for a 1000mm, and in the days
> when I swam a lot, I used a disposable camera made
> watertight for the in-water shots. Later I got a Nikonos,
> but I never actually did any shooting with it and later sold
> it to a friend.
>
> sounds like you're a pretty versatile photographer. I
> don't think I could have pulled it off by myself
>
> karl

Re: A challenge

2008-10-11T09:11:23Z

Mario Pires writes:

> On the debate issue, i have a challenge to pose you all.
>
> This is a situation that i faced in the past, and i solved it .

you did well to solve this one - I hope they paid you HEAPS!

:)

> But i would like to know how would you handle the situation if you came
> across it.
>
> The Client: Sport event organizer
> The Event: National Surf Competition
> The Timetable: A weekend a month (February trough September) Start of the
> event: 08:00 AM - End (until sunlight ends, or 8:00 PM)
> The Location: Several beaches on the country coast
> The Brief: You have to get photos of: Beach, Contestants, Surf action (Very
> important) , Public, Winners, Promotional material on the event location.
> Every surfer photographed should be with the sponsor logos visible.
> The surfers should be photographed when they are entering the water, when
> leaving the water. Staff should also be photographed, specially the jury.
> The Material available:
> -1 SLR Camera
> - 28 mm 2.8
> - 50 mm 1.4
> - 60-300 4.5-5.6
> - 1 light tripod
>
>
> What would you do ?
> Is this enough ?
> Remember that on some surf spots the surfer are way out in the water.

I've done a small amount, but a 500mm lens for beach shots was quickly exchanged for a 1000mm, and in the days when I swam a lot, I used a disposable camera made watertight for the in-water shots. Later I got a Nikonos, but I never actually did any shooting with it and later sold it to a friend.

sounds like you're a pretty versatile photographer. I don't think I could have pulled it off by myself

karl

A challenge

2008-10-11T07:59:33Z

On the debate issue, i have a challenge to pose you all.

This is a situation that i faced in the past, and i solved it .
But i would like to know how would you handle the situation if you came across it.

The Client: Sport event organizer
The Event: National Surf Competition
The Timetable: A weekend a month (February trough September) Start of the event: 08:00 AM - End (until sunlight ends, or 8:00 PM)
The Location: Several beaches on the country coast
The Brief: You have to get photos of: Beach, Contestants, Surf action (Very important) , Public, Winners, Promotional material on the event location. Every surfer photographed should be with the sponsor logos visible.
The surfers should be photographed when they are entering the water, when leaving the water. Staff should also be photographed, specially the jury.
The Material available:
-1 SLR Camera
- 28 mm 2.8
- 50 mm 1.4
- 60-300 4.5-5.6
- 1 light tripod

What would you do ?
Is this enough ?
Remember that on some surf spots the surfer are way out in the water.

--
Mário Pires

Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.org

retorta@...
http://www.retorta.net
http://twitter.com/retorta

Re: PF exhibit on Oct 04, 2008

2008-10-11T07:48:31Z

Darn. I was intending to write a review but now I've got a date to
go to Cuttyhunk. If the new gallery isn't up when I get back I'll
get to it.

At 10:31 AM -0400 10/4/08, ADavidhazy wrote:

>The PhotoForum members' gallery/exhibit space was updated OCT 04,
>2008. Authors
>with work now on display at:
>http://people.rit.edu/andpph/gallery.html include:
>
>
> Robert G. Earnest -
> J Michael Sullivan - IR-land (Morning Light) 0636
> Valery Firsov -
> Sherrie Taylor - Finish Line
> Pini Vollach - Girl in Acco (Acre) port
> Dan Mitchell - BMsteps
> Howard Leigh - Mind
> Christopher Strevens - Mum at Stonehenge
> Emily L. Ferguson - Hudson River near West Point
> Guy Glorieux - The violinist

--
Emily L. Ferguson
mailto:elf@...
508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races
http://www.landsedgephoto.com
http://e-and-s.instaproofs.com/

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T05:03:51Z

Rich Mason

The only questions I received at the end
> of the show were along the lines of "what kind of equipment do you
> use?" I promised myself never again would I waste my time doing that.

to the cook "that was a nice meal.. you must have good pots!"

shudder

I loathe that attitude. No probs with 'how did you achieve that effect?' or "what sort of lens (not brand) did you use to make it look like that?" .. "how did you develop that?"

but brand names bore me

k

RE: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T04:24:59Z

Isn't it the case that the best craftsman achieve the best that there
tools can deliver?
Isn't also the case that less good craftsman can also do something
better with better equipment?
I think having the 'latest' definitely gives an edge and giving a good
photographer the most superb equipment one could expect to see
comparable results
Edwin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-photoforum@...
[mailto:owner-photoforum@...] On Behalf Of Rich Mason
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:32 AM
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
Subject: Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

Mark,

I wish photographers starting out would only be allowed to have one
camera with a fixed focal length lens for the first five years. Then
they would be told to go out and see the world. No zooms. No ultra
wide angles. No super telephotos. No 50 frame-per-second bodies.
The only permitted accessories would be a tripod and cable/remote
release. If more photographers did this and spent their time looking
and seeing rather than fiddling with equipment and pining over what
they don't have, they would become better photographers.

I agree that a good photographer can make a good picture with almost
any properly functioning piece of equipment. That's because the most
important elements of a photograph aren't reliant on the gear one
uses--composition, content and the quality of the light. Gimmickry
rarely adds anything, but, rather, detracts from the skills of a good
image maker.

A few years back I did a slide show for a local camera club. I
projected three 80-picture trays which represented 5 or 6 years of my
work as a photojournalist. The only questions I received at the end
of the show were along the lines of "what kind of equipment do you
use?" I promised myself never again would I waste my time doing that.

Cheers,

Rich

On Oct 11, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Mark Blackwell wrote:

> Ok I will throw out some stink bait. I am often amazed at how many
> people think that they MUST have the latest and greatest new
> equipment. They have great stuff but no idea of what to do with
> it. Others take junk and excel which begs the question, "Just how
> much of a part of the total success is the tool, and how much of it
> is the person running the tool?"
>
> I use some old stuff. I have an old Voigtlander that was bought in
> the 50s that I still use. I have an old 4x5 view camera that is
> probably about that old. Both still work well, with some limitations.
>
> Lenses are another long term investment. Do you upgrade every time
> a new lens appears? Who buys used lenses?? How used??? grin Zoom
> or primes??? Oh the choices.
>
> Digital with its short life expectancy is a much tougher choice.
> It's not a mature industry, at least not yet but it seems to be
> getting closer. Not that long ago for what you would spend for a
> 5D you could get the D30 that was a 3.3 MP and the state of the
> art. Each new model does bring improvements, but when is the
> improvement enough to justify the new investment? It's not like
> the old one quits working. All tough decisions.
>
> Its all part of the overall product. IF money is no object, you
> always get new stuff. Still that rarely is the case. So it brings
> us back to how much of a great photo is tool, and how much is
> between the ears of the person running it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T04:23:40Z

Mario Pires

> Techniques are essential, we must learn techniques, but only as a means to
> produce a realization of our ideas.

bang on !

too many dwell on technique for sure..

ideally, my take is that a person learns techniques up to the point that they can forget them and have them become part of the person - innate and intuitive.

> Technique without any idea behind just give birth to hollow photos.

that can happen..

> We can learn techniques, they requere some, or lots of time to master, but
> the most valuable thing in a photo is the realization of an personal idea.
> That's what I'm after.

fair enough ..

so a balance of tech talk and aesthetic talk is reasonable

I hope :)

karl

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T04:19:55Z

Mark writes:

> Ok I will throw out some stink bait. I am often amazed at how many people think that they MUST have the latest and greatest new equipment. They have great stuff but no idea of what to do with it. Others take junk and excel which begs the question, "Just how much of a part of the total success is the tool, and how much of it is the person running the tool?"

I've always felt the old adage 'a bad worker blames his tools' only hold true if the worker is 'craftsman' enough to have good tools to start with..

That is to say, if he knows enough to go find the tools to do the job right. A good worker given dodgy tools can only do his best, though he may by choice pick a better grade of wood, a harder narrower chisel - whatever, but given half arsed tools he's going to be hard pressed to excel.

And a really good worker/craftsman will probably be found to own tools both old and new, beaten and shiny, from all manner of places, gathered together to give him the *best* selection of tools to do whatever job needs doing with no mind to how good they look or how others view the collection.

a bad worker can have the worlds best tools - he's still likely to cut his thumb off before he makes anything decent.

> I use some old stuff. I have an old Voigtlander that was bought in the 50s that I still use. I have an old 4x5 view camera that is probably about that old. Both still work well, with some limitations.

every camera has limitations! It's like that silly question we all hear - 'what's the best camera?' which begs a question in return - 'for what?'

I happen to like 8x10 - but not for family happy snaps.. I also am really fond of a certain 16mm I have, but lord forbid I even dream of approaching a landscape with it! I LOVE my 3200 ASA film, but not for portraits! And the 25 ASA Tech pan always makes me drool, though there is NO way I would shoot a rock concert with it even if there was enough light to do so!

both cameras you mention are good cameras to my eye, probably less so to the younger generations ;)

> Lenses are another long term investment. Do you upgrade every time a new lens appears? Who buys used lenses?? How used??? grin Zoom or primes??? Oh the choices.

I got 'em all, and put my hand out to grab a *specific* lens almost without thinking. though I don't think I have ever taken along a zoom because I've not known what focal length I'll need. Most of the time I use primes, but zooms still play an important part - maybe I should call them 'multi-focal length lenses' , for that's the way I choose to use them. Moving the feet changes perspective and I don't always want that, but then the angle of view slips between the gaps on my primes .. so out comes the zoom ;)

> Digital with its short life expectancy is a much tougher choice. It's .. <clip> .. Each new model does bring improvements, but when is the improvement enough to justify the new investment? It's not like the old one quits working. All tough decisions.

but DO they all bring improvements?

I still don't treat autfocus as an improvement over manual focus, but then I loathe the standard focussing screens in most AF cameras - they're lousy for manual focussing!

> Its all part of the overall product. IF money is no object, you always get new stuff.

uh.. not always. As I amassed gear over the years I found myself using the grottiest looking bodies, the most taped together battery grips and I always approached the cameras I'd managed to keep clean with a degree of trepidation in case they got hurt - so much so thet I've sold all the prettiest ones and work with cameras I don't worry about - I can hurl myself in front of rearing horses with no fear that I'll get dust on my camera body

however.. I really try hard to look after my lenses

>Still that rarely is the case. So it brings us back to how much of a great photo is tool, and how much is between the ears of the person running it?

Popper argued that limited language cramps the thinking process, or to put it another way, if you don't have the language - the words you need, you aren't going to be able to form the thoughts.

however, I know plenty of people who produce brilliant work with a single camera and lens.

..but we're discussing ideas hey? :)

k

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T03:59:34Z

Karl

Techniques are essential, we must learn techniques, but only as a means to produce a realization of our ideas.

Technique without any idea behind just give birth to hollow photos.

We can learn techniques, they requere some, or lots of time to master, but the most valuable thing in a photo is the realization of an personal idea. That's what I'm after.

2008/10/11 karl shah-jenner <shahjen@...>

Mario Pires writes:

> What I'm interested is the exchange of IDEAS. Not techniques.
> Techniques are essential, but it depends of the purpose each one has. What i
> find universal and never discussed, are the ideas (or lack of...) behind our
> work.

I meet a lot of people with ideas, few sadly have the technique to pull them off..

ideas are often thrown to the wind, techniques guarded closely.

if I had an idea t produce a *really* graphic black and white photo but no clue as to the technique, no matter how much talking I do about it is going to bring it any closer to reality unless I either experiment like mad - and learn the technique if i'm lucky - or if someone teaches it to me

that's my 2c worth anyway

k

--
Mário Pires

Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.org

retorta@...
http://www.retorta.net
http://twitter.com/retorta

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T03:42:40Z

Mario Pires writes:

> What I'm interested is the exchange of IDEAS. Not techniques.
> Techniques are essential, but it depends of the purpose each one has. What i
> find universal and never discussed, are the ideas (or lack of...) behind our
> work.

I meet a lot of people with ideas, few sadly have the technique to pull them off..

ideas are often thrown to the wind, techniques guarded closely.

if I had an idea t produce a *really* graphic black and white photo but no clue as to the technique, no matter how much talking I do about it is going to bring it any closer to reality unless I either experiment like mad - and learn the technique if i'm lucky - or if someone teaches it to me

that's my 2c worth anyway

k

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T03:32:26Z

Mark,

I wish photographers starting out would only be allowed to have one
camera with a fixed focal length lens for the first five years. Then
they would be told to go out and see the world. No zooms. No ultra
wide angles. No super telephotos. No 50 frame-per-second bodies.
The only permitted accessories would be a tripod and cable/remote
release. If more photographers did this and spent their time looking
and seeing rather than fiddling with equipment and pining over what
they don't have, they would become better photographers.

I agree that a good photographer can make a good picture with almost
any properly functioning piece of equipment. That's because the most
important elements of a photograph aren't reliant on the gear one
uses--composition, content and the quality of the light. Gimmickry
rarely adds anything, but, rather, detracts from the skills of a good
image maker.

A few years back I did a slide show for a local camera club. I
projected three 80-picture trays which represented 5 or 6 years of my
work as a photojournalist. The only questions I received at the end
of the show were along the lines of "what kind of equipment do you
use?" I promised myself never again would I waste my time doing that.

Cheers,

Rich

On Oct 11, 2008, at 12:51 AM, Mark Blackwell wrote:

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T02:42:14Z

What I'm interested is the exchange of IDEAS. Not techniques.
Techniques are essential, but it depends of the purpose each one has. What i find universal and never discussed, are the ideas (or lack of...) behind our work.
Not everyone has an interest in producing "art photos", but even the carefree hobbyist can use a little level of thought in what he is doing. I dont mean to have an "intellectual discussion" using obscure words and turn every discussion into a lecture to how off my "suposed knowledge".
Some years ago i started to work on some subdgets over time, using all my available time to pursue them, thay wre based on personal preferences and logistics, and that is a interesting discusion to have with other people. Why are pursuing this or that subdgets, why do you use this camera and aproach end not that one.

Ideas are rarely touched, techniques are overpresent, can we ballance that a bit ?

2008/10/11 Mark Blackwell <mblackwell1958@...>

Ok I will throw out some stink bait. I am often amazed at how many people think that they MUST have the latest and greatest new equipment. They have great stuff but no idea of what to do with it. Others take junk and excel which begs the question, "Just how much of a part of the total success is the tool, and how much of it is the person running the tool?"

--
Mário Pires

Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.org

retorta@...
http://www.retorta.net
http://twitter.com/retorta

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-11T01:40:14Z

I sold my 40-year old arca swiss 5x7 camera to help me pay for my nikon dslr...no regrets

i'm finding that i'm encouraged to take just as much time taking a good photograph with the digital so that i don't have to erase the volume of garbage that results from being trigger happy

"somewhere between zero and one...everything else is exaggeration" - Anonymous

----- Original Message ----
From: Laurenz Bobke <info@...>
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students <photoforum@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 1:33:44 PM
Subject: Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

Mark,

the bait sure stinks ;-) but I'll take it.

Personally, I think the tool should be adequate for the subject. In a wide-angle shot of a landscape, I don't have to worry about straight lines but in architecture a shift lens might make sense...

Of course, many problems now can be corrected digitally lateron.

Some of the shots like most among my own photos were taken with really simple cameras.

Digital photography on the other hand is just more convenient for me - plus I don't have to find space for new slides anymore.

I somewhat doubt that there ever will be a time when it will become as "mature" as analogue. Think of computers: as soon as you buy a new one it's starting to get outdated.

I now have a quad core CPU. I'm pretty sure, three years from now I'll have to say: "I only have a quad-core" unless I have upgraded to the new standard by then...

Laurenz

http://www.travelphoto.net/

2008/10/11 Mark Blackwell <mblackwell1958@...>

Ok I will throw out some stink bait. I am often amazed at how many people think that they MUST have the latest and greatest new equipment. They have great stuff but no idea of what to do with it. Others take junk and excel which begs the question, "Just how much of a part of the total success is the tool, and how much of it is the person running the tool?"

I use some old stuff. I have an old Voigtlander that was bought in the 50s that I still use. I have an old 4x5 view camera that is probably about that old. Both still work well, with some limitations.

Lenses are another long term investment. Do you upgrade every time a new lens appears? Who buys used lenses?? How used??? grin Zoom or primes??? Oh the choices.

Digital with its short life expectancy is a much tougher choice. It's not a mature industry, at least not yet but it seems to be getting closer. Not that long ago for what you would spend for a 5D you could get the D30 that was a 3.3 MP and the state of the art. Each new model does bring improvements, but when is the improvement enough to justify the new investment? It's not like the old one quits working. All tough decisions.

Its all part of the overall product. IF money is no object, you always get new stuff. Still that rarely is the case. So it brings us back to how much of a great photo is tool, and how much is between the ears of the person running it?

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-11T01:05:16Z

----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard" <howard.leigh111@...>
To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Auntie Em?

> Well, Karl, as we say in the U.K. - "Bob's your uncle!"

as we do here too..

or Bob's your Anuntie as sometimes is the case ..

Re: Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-10T23:33:44Z

Mark,

the bait sure stinks ;-) but I'll take it.

Personally, I think the tool should be adequate for the subject. In a wide-angle shot of a landscape, I don't have to worry about straight lines but in architecture a shift lens might make sense...

Of course, many problems now can be corrected digitally lateron.

Some of the shots like most among my own photos were taken with really simple cameras.

Digital photography on the other hand is just more convenient for me - plus I don't have to find space for new slides anymore.

I somewhat doubt that there ever will be a time when it will become as "mature" as analogue. Think of computers: as soon as you buy a new one it's starting to get outdated.

I now have a quad core CPU. I'm pretty sure, three years from now I'll have to say: "I only have a quad-core" unless I have upgraded to the new standard by then...

Laurenz

http://www.travelphoto.net/

2008/10/11 Mark Blackwell <mblackwell1958@...>

Ok I will throw out some stink bait. I am often amazed at how many people think that they MUST have the latest and greatest new equipment. They have great stuff but no idea of what to do with it. Others take junk and excel which begs the question, "Just how much of a part of the total success is the tool, and how much of it is the person running the tool?"

I use some old stuff. I have an old Voigtlander that was bought in the 50s that I still use. I have an old 4x5 view camera that is probably about that old. Both still work well, with some limitations.

Lenses are another long term investment. Do you upgrade every time a new lens appears? Who buys used lenses?? How used??? grin Zoom or primes??? Oh the choices.

Digital with its short life expectancy is a much tougher choice. It's not a mature industry, at least not yet but it seems to be getting closer. Not that long ago for what you would spend for a 5D you could get the D30 that was a 3.3 MP and the state of the art. Each new model does bring improvements, but when is the improvement enough to justify the new investment? It's not like the old one quits working. All tough decisions.

Its all part of the overall product. IF money is no object, you always get new stuff. Still that rarely is the case. So it brings us back to how much of a great photo is tool, and how much is between the ears of the person running it?

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T22:05:43Z

Well, Karl, as we say in the U.K. - "Bob's your uncle!"

Howard

karl shah-jenner wrote:

> Mark Blackwell
>
> Now I am a fairly new member, but I don't ever remember anyone ever really degrading a discussion to that level
>
>
>
> the photoforum flamewars of yesteryear were a sight to behold.. clouds of black smoke billowing across the ether.
>
>
> Hey, you know something, there's a shortage of Bobs on the list
>
> we used to have so many..
>
> where did all the Bobs go?
>
> k
>
>
>

Ok so everyone seems to want lively debate (not flame wars)

2008-10-10T21:51:40Z

Ok I will throw out some stink bait. I am often amazed at how many people think that they MUST have the latest and greatest new equipment. They have great stuff but no idea of what to do with it. Others take junk and excel which begs the question, "Just how much of a part of the total success is the tool, and how much of it is the person running the tool?"

I use some old stuff. I have an old Voigtlander that was bought in the 50s that I still use. I have an old 4x5 view camera that is probably about that old. Both still work well, with some limitations.

Lenses are another long term investment. Do you upgrade every time a new lens appears? Who buys used lenses?? How used??? grin Zoom or primes??? Oh the choices.

Digital with its short life expectancy is a much tougher choice. It's not a mature industry, at least not yet but it seems to be getting closer. Not that long ago for what you would spend for a 5D you could get the D30 that was a 3.3 MP and the state of the art. Each new model does bring improvements, but when is the improvement enough to justify the new investment? It's not like the old one quits working. All tough decisions.

Its all part of the overall product. IF money is no object, you always get new stuff. Still that rarely is the case. So it brings us back to how much of a great photo is tool, and how much is between the ears of the person running it?

Re: Auntie EM

2008-10-10T19:26:31Z

Hi Gang................

I've been here for quite some time.

When I first joined people were mostly
talking about film and wet darkroom stuff
and everyone was amazed at the Epson
800(I think)ink jet printer.

Now I don't care for a flame war..................

But I do enjoy a "spirited" exchange.

It sort of gives me a bit of anticipation
as to what might be in the next message.

I am on a number of List Serves that
mostly just exchange dry information.
(informative but not much fun)

I like this list as it is a community.

Very often one can tell who wrote
the message without looking at the
"From" just by the style of what they
have written.

Russ
R.E. Baker
Photography
rebphoto@...
www.rebphoto.smugmug.com
Feed a Cat...
Starve a Fever........

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T18:51:59Z

Bob writes:

> At least one is still here 8^)

and a damned fine Bob at that, if I do say so my damned self!

it just seemed somehow really funny when the various Bobs went to war

;)

k

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T18:11:14Z

At least one is still here 8^)

Bob

karl shah-jenner wrote:

Mark Blackwell

Now I am a fairly new member, but I don't ever remember anyone ever really degrading a discussion to that level



the photoforum flamewars of yesteryear were a sight to behold.. clouds of black smoke billowing across the ether.


Hey, you know something, there's a shortage of Bobs on the list

we used to have so many..

where did all the Bobs go?

k

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T17:58:25Z

Mark Blackwell

Now I am a fairly new member, but I don't ever remember anyone ever really degrading a discussion to that level

the photoforum flamewars of yesteryear were a sight to behold.. clouds of black smoke billowing across the ether.

Hey, you know something, there's a shortage of Bobs on the list

we used to have so many..

where did all the Bobs go?

k

Re: no one bought it!

2008-10-10T16:33:32Z

And for those who have the chance, see Jennifer Baychwal's documentary film "Manufactured Landscapes"
http://www.us.imdb.com/title/tt0832903/

The film opens with a 10 minutes linear travelling inside a 1km-long factory in China...!
The beauty of this film is that it provides a portrait of the photographer at work
showing considerable visual space all around the edges of Burtinsky's
giant pictures of the industrial landscape.

There is a long section on location of the Bangladeshi shipyard.

Best seen after visiting a gallery exhibition.

Burtinsky lives in Toronto

Guy

2008/10/10 Robert Earnest <robert@...>

Manufactured Landscapes was/is an awesome body of work.
Anyone unfamiliar with it can have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZiKBKnesnU

And plenty more if you just google his name.

R

Re: no one bought it!

2008-10-10T14:31:12Z

Manufactured Landscapes was/is an awesome body of work.
Anyone unfamiliar with it can have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZiKBKnesnU

And plenty more if you just google his name.

R

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T13:42:27Z

On Fri, October 10, 2008 15:25, Mark Blackwell wrote:
> Well there is in my opinion a big difference between a verbal fight (which
> tends to get personal, involves name calling and insults) and a healthy
> disagreement on an adult level.

Sure there is, but in my experience people place the line at somewhat
different points, and deal with people who sometimes cross the line a
little differently afterwards. So you still need a fair bit of tolerance
for boundaries different from your own.

And of course some people make solo human-wave attacks over-the-top, too :-).

--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

2008-10-10T13:28:09Z

I appreciate your .02 cents, Bob. It's worth more than that to me{:->

Marilyn

----- Original Message -----

From: w8imo@...

To: photoforum@...

Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:47 PM

Subject: Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

I haven't used a 890 IS but I have experience with the A570IS and A590IS. They both do well in my opinion

I prefer the A series because they are powered by 2 AA cells which I can get almost anywhere should I need them. I saw a couple people with cameras that had rechargeable batteries miss getting shots of their loved ones when my son returned from his tour in Afghanistan with the 10th Mountain because of a dead battery. I would have gladly given them a couple AA cells but they couldn't use them.

dpreview.com rates the 590IS a bit better that the 890IS although I haven't read the reviews I just looked at the stars....

That's my $0.02......

Bob

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T13:25:32Z

Well there is in my opinion a big difference between a verbal fight (which tends to get personal, involves name calling and insults) and a healthy disagreement on an adult level. We can learn a great deal from disagreement. Different ideas make us rethink what we do, why we do it, and how we can make our work better. If it degrades to comments like you are an idiot, its time to use the delete button and either ignore or move on to the next list. Nothing can be learned from such a discussion. Now I am a fairly new member, but I don't ever remember anyone ever really degrading a discussion to that level

Just my 2 cents.

--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mario Pires <retorta@...> wrote:

> From: Mario Pires <retorta@...>
> Subject: Re: Auntie Em?
> To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@...>
> Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 11:38 AM
> 2008/10/10 Lea Murphy <lea@...>
>
> > You miss the verbal fights?
> > Wow. You must be sadistic.
> >
> > I hated them.
> >
>
> I think that verbal "fights" (not insults or
> aggression) give some amount of
> energy to a group, but perhaps i am impatient and dont like
> to sail in calm
> waters...
>
>
>
>
> >
> > This forum (and some of the missing members) taught me
> what the internet
> > was all about...what a global community really could
> be, how writings could
> > be misinterpreted and how you can find the best and
> the worst of people in
> > their written word and shared images.
> >
> > This was the first forum I ever participated in. I
> have joined others (and
> > left most of them) but there is nothing out there like
> this group.
> >
> > Lea
> >
> >
> > On Oct 10, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Mario Pires wrote:
> >
> > Are we in Nostalgia mode ?
> >
> > Things changed much since i started following this
> list (technology and
> > otherwise), but Andy and some people here deserve to
> be read, that's why i
> > keep following this list, even if i stay silent for
> months.
> >
> > I miss the verbal fights of "the golden age of
> ML" :)
> >
> >
> >
> > 2008/10/10 Pini Vollach
> <pinimage@...>
> >
> >> I think Bob Rosen's reviews were the reason
> for me to stay ( for a long
> >> time ) in this mailing list.
> >> I learnt a lot from him.
> >> That was about 10 years ago ...?
> >>
> >> Pini
> >>
> >>
> >> ציטוט Robert Earnest:
> >>
> >> And thanks for liking the image. And how is Jan?
> I do miss him but
> >> I miss Bob Rosen a lot more.
> >>
> >>
> >> I guess I miss Chilled Delirium the most.
> >> There was a person that felt life and made me feel
> alive too.
> >> His reviews were like poetry. They gave me hope.
> >> One of the smartest, most sensitive and genuine
> people ever to grace this
> >> list. I forget who pissed him off.
> >>
> >> Bob Rosen was a trip.
> >> Kind of a gun toting hippie with brains that was
> likely to park his
> >> Winnebago in your backyard at any second... Loved
> that guy too.
> >> Probably in the witness protection plan somewhere.
> I wonder if I still have
> >> his number?
> >>
> >> R
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mário Pires
> >
> > Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de
> Outubro -
> > http://esteticafotografica.org
> >
> >
> > retorta@...
> > http://www.retorta.net
> > http://twitter.com/retorta
> >
> >
> >
> > babies. they're what i do.
> > www.leamurphy.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Mário Pires
>
> Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro -
> http://esteticafotografica.org
>
>
> retorta@...
> http://www.retorta.net
> http://twitter.com/retorta

Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

2008-10-10T12:47:00Z

I haven't used a 890 IS but I have experience with the A570IS and A590IS. They both do well in my opinion

I prefer the A series because they are powered by 2 AA cells which I can get almost anywhere should I need them. I saw a couple people with cameras that had rechargeable batteries miss getting shots of their loved ones when my son returned from his tour in Afghanistan with the 10th Mountain because of a dead battery. I would have gladly given them a couple AA cells but they couldn't use them.

dpreview.com rates the 590IS a bit better that the 890IS although I haven't read the reviews I just looked at the stars....

That's my $0.02......

Bob

Marilyn Dalrymple wrote:

I'm not sure if it is becasue I did not have a subject line in my first message or because no one has had experience with a Canon 890 Sure Shot, but I thought I'd try one more time.

I've done some research on the Internet, but am wondering if anyone on this list has used the Canon Sure Shot 890 IS Elph and if so, if you would be willing to share your thoughts on the camera.

Marilyn

Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

2008-10-10T11:47:19Z

Thank you, Michael. I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

Marilyn
----- Original Message -----
From: <editor@...>
To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students"
<photoforum@...>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

> Canon's had a deserving advantage a few years ago, but the other companies
> have caught up in the interim. The fact is, they all pretty much use the
> same, or nearly the same size sensor, so increasingly the difference in
> digicams is merely bells and whistles.
>
> To pay a premium for a feature you may rarely if ever use makes no sense
> as the market is over-crowded and there is competition aplenty.
>
> For kicks I picked up a Kodak z812 and was very impressed with the
> quality.
>
> As it was "too big" to fit in her purse I then picked up a Lumix TZ4 with
> a Leica-designed lens. Again the quality was impressive.
>
> Anyway, these are all good cameras and you can't go wrong with today's
> digicams
>
> Michael
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>

Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

2008-10-10T11:25:53Z

Canon's had a deserving advantage a few years ago, but the other companies have caught up in the interim. The fact is, they all pretty much use the same, or nearly the same size sensor, so increasingly the difference in digicams is merely bells and whistles.

To pay a premium for a feature you may rarely if ever use makes no sense as the market is over-crowded and there is competition aplenty.

For kicks I picked up a Kodak z812 and was very impressed with the quality.

As it was "too big" to fit in her purse I then picked up a Lumix TZ4 with a Leica-designed lens. Again the quality was impressive.

Anyway, these are all good cameras and you can't go wrong with today's digicams

Michael
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Lea Murphy <lea@...>

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:50:18
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students<photoforum@...>
Subject: Re: Canon Sure Shot 890

I know this "a friend of a friend of a friend" sort of deal but....

I have two friends who are avid, avid amateur photogs, they both use
the SureShot line and I'm consistently exceptionally impressed with
the quality of the images they get from their cameras. I can't tell
you the numbers they are using (700, 890, etc) but I can tell you that
when I'm in the market for a new point and shoot that will be the line
I consider first and foremost.

By comparison my little point and shoot is a Lumix something or other
and my bigger point and shoot is a Canon G7. Both serve their purposes
but I honestly think the SureShots have both of mine beat.

Hope this is of some help.

Lea

On Oct 10, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Marilyn Dalrymple wrote:

> I'm not sure if it is becasue I did not have a subject line in my
> first message or because no one has had experience with a Canon 890
> Sure Shot, but I thought I'd try one more time.
>
> I've done some research on the Internet, but am wondering if anyone
> on this list has used the Canon Sure Shot 890 IS Elph and if so, if
> you would be willing to share your thoughts on the camera.
>
> Marilyn

babies. they're what i do.
www.leamurphy.com

RE: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T11:03:37Z

Hi, I'm new to this board and I am absolutely not saying 'its better
over there'
I also belong to http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/ which I have
found interesting
And some of the discussions can be frank theor as well!
I am looking to enjoy the difference.

Edwin

Edwin Blenkinsopp
Technical Manager
image2output
UK
e: edwin.blenkinsopp@...
w: www.image2output.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-photoforum@...
[mailto:owner-photoforum@...] On Behalf Of David
Dyer-Bennet
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 6:12 PM
To: List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students
Subject: Re: Auntie Em?

On Fri, October 10, 2008 11:30, Lea Murphy wrote:
> You miss the verbal fights?
>
> Wow. You must be sadistic.
>
> I hated them.

It's been kinda dull for a while (years). I don't exactly like fights,
but I like discussions with knowledgeable people who hold differing
positions, and I have a thick skin so it doesn't have to be totally
nicy-nice for me to learn from it. Sheer random meanness doesn't do
anything for me, certainly, and it will actively drive away lots of
people
with interesting thoughts to contribute.

I've been using mailing lists and other online forums since 1981,
including moderating several on Fidonet in the late 1980s and early
1990s.
I'm only on one other photography mailing list at the moment (plus
following The Online Photographer and The Strobist via RSS feed), and I
could use some more.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Edwin Blenkinsopp.vcf]

BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Blenkinsopp;Edwin FN:Edwin Blenkinsopp EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:edwin.blenkinsopp@... REV:20070514T163324Z END:VCARD

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T11:01:54Z

There are some really good groups like this out there, but I found you need two things to get the best from them. A thick skin combined with a willingness to hit the delete button is first and foremost. There is a lot of water around those pearls of wisdom that show up.

Second is persistence. You can go through an awful lot of groups before you find the ones that are civil, treat people with respect and have something important to say. I've learned a great deal here.

--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Lea Murphy <lea@...> wrote:

> From: Lea Murphy <lea@...>
> Subject: Re: Auntie Em?
> To: "List for Photo/Imaging Educators - Professionals - Students" <photoforum@...>
> Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 11:30 AM
> You miss the verbal fights?
>
> Wow. You must be sadistic.
>
> I hated them.
>
> This forum (and some of the missing members) taught me what
> the
> internet was all about...what a global community really
> could be, how
> writings could be misinterpreted and how you can find the
> best and the
> worst of people in their written word and shared images.
>
> This was the first forum I ever participated in. I have
> joined others
> (and left most of them) but there is nothing out there like
> this group.
>
> Lea
>
>
> On Oct 10, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Mario Pires wrote:
>
> > Are we in Nostalgia mode ?
> >
> > Things changed much since i started following this
> list (technology
> > and otherwise), but Andy and some people here deserve
> to be read,
> > that's why i keep following this list, even if i
> stay silent for
> > months.
> >
> > I miss the verbal fights of "the golden age of
> ML" :)
> >
> >
> >
> > 2008/10/10 Pini Vollach
> <pinimage@...>
> > I think Bob Rosen's reviews were the reason for me
> to stay ( for a
> > long time ) in this mailing list.
> > I learnt a lot from him.
> > That was about 10 years ago ...?
> >
> > Pini
> >
> >
> > ציטוט Robert Earnest:
> >>
> >>> And thanks for liking the image. And how is
> Jan? I do miss him but
> >>> I miss Bob Rosen a lot more.
> >>>
> >> I guess I miss Chilled Delirium the most.
> >> There was a person that felt life and made me feel
> alive too.
> >> His reviews were like poetry. They gave me hope.
> >> One of the smartest, most sensitive and genuine
> people ever to
> >> grace this
> >> list. I forget who pissed him off.
> >>
> >> Bob Rosen was a trip.
> >> Kind of a gun toting hippie with brains that was
> likely to park his
> >> Winnebago in your backyard at any second... Loved
> that guy too.
> >> Probably in the witness protection plan somewhere.
> I wonder if I
> >> still have
> >> his number?
> >>
> >> R
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mário Pires
> >
> > Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de
> Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.
> > org
> >
> >
> > retorta@...
> > http://www.retorta.net
> > http://twitter.com/retorta
>
>
> babies. they're what i do.
> www.leamurphy.com

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T10:12:11Z

On Fri, October 10, 2008 11:30, Lea Murphy wrote:
> You miss the verbal fights?
>
> Wow. You must be sadistic.
>
> I hated them.

It's been kinda dull for a while (years). I don't exactly like fights,
but I like discussions with knowledgeable people who hold differing
positions, and I have a thick skin so it doesn't have to be totally
nicy-nice for me to learn from it. Sheer random meanness doesn't do
anything for me, certainly, and it will actively drive away lots of people
with interesting thoughts to contribute.

I've been using mailing lists and other online forums since 1981,
including moderating several on Fidonet in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
I'm only on one other photography mailing list at the moment (plus
following The Online Photographer and The Strobist via RSS feed), and I
could use some more.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T09:38:06Z

2008/10/10 Lea Murphy <lea@...>

You miss the verbal fights?

Wow. You must be sadistic.

I hated them.

I think that verbal "fights" (not insults or aggression) give some amount of energy to a group, but perhaps i am impatient and dont like to sail in calm waters...

This forum (and some of the missing members) taught me what the internet was all about...what a global community really could be, how writings could be misinterpreted and how you can find the best and the worst of people in their written word and shared images.

This was the first forum I ever participated in. I have joined others (and left most of them) but there is nothing out there like this group.

Lea
On Oct 10, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Mario Pires wrote:
Are we in Nostalgia mode ?

Things changed much since i started following this list (technology and otherwise), but Andy and some people here deserve to be read, that's why i keep following this list, even if i stay silent for months.

I miss the verbal fights of "the golden age of ML" :)
2008/10/10 Pini Vollach <pinimage@...>
I think Bob Rosen's reviews were the reason for me to stay ( for a long time ) in this mailing list.
I learnt a lot from him.
That was about 10 years ago ...?

Pini

ציטוט Robert Earnest:
And thanks for liking the image.  And how is Jan?  I do miss him but
I miss Bob Rosen a lot more.
    
I guess I miss Chilled Delirium the most.
There was a person that felt life and made me feel alive too.
His reviews were like poetry. They gave me hope.
One of the smartest, most sensitive and genuine people ever to grace this
list. I forget who pissed him off.

Bob Rosen was a trip.
Kind of a gun toting hippie with brains that was likely to park his
Winnebago in your backyard at any second... Loved that guy too.
Probably in the witness protection plan somewhere. I wonder if I still have
his number?

R


  
--
Mário Pires

Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.org

retorta@...
http://www.retorta.net
http://twitter.com/retorta
babies. they're what i do.
www.leamurphy.com

--
Mário Pires

Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.org

retorta@...
http://www.retorta.net
http://twitter.com/retorta

Re: Auntie Em?

2008-10-10T09:30:31Z

You miss the verbal fights?

Wow. You must be sadistic.

I hated them.

This forum (and some of the missing members) taught me what the internet was all about...what a global community really could be, how writings could be misinterpreted and how you can find the best and the worst of people in their written word and shared images.

This was the first forum I ever participated in. I have joined others (and left most of them) but there is nothing out there like this group.

Lea

On Oct 10, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Mario Pires wrote:

Are we in Nostalgia mode ?

Things changed much since i started following this list (technology and otherwise), but Andy and some people here deserve to be read, that's why i keep following this list, even if i stay silent for months.

I miss the verbal fights of "the golden age of ML" :)
2008/10/10 Pini Vollach <pinimage@...>
I think Bob Rosen's reviews were the reason for me to stay ( for a long time ) in this mailing list.
I learnt a lot from him.
That was about 10 years ago ...?

Pini

ציטוט Robert Earnest:
And thanks for liking the image.  And how is Jan?  I do miss him but
I miss Bob Rosen a lot more.
    
I guess I miss Chilled Delirium the most.
There was a person that felt life and made me feel alive too.
His reviews were like poetry. They gave me hope.
One of the smartest, most sensitive and genuine people ever to grace this
list. I forget who pissed him off.

Bob Rosen was a trip.
Kind of a gun toting hippie with brains that was likely to park his
Winnebago in your backyard at any second... Loved that guy too.
Probably in the witness protection plan somewhere. I wonder if I still have
his number?

R


  
--
Mário Pires

Curso de Estética Fotográfica - Começo a 7 de Outubro - http://esteticafotografica.org

retorta@...
http://www.retorta.net
http://twitter.com/retorta

babies. they're what i do.

www.leamurphy.com

Hudson River near West Point

2008-10-10T09:24:45Z

Remind me the photos of Edward Burtynsky.
I bought his book: Manufactured Landscapes.

Pini