Open Invention Network

[Steve McIntyre-4]

Hi folks,

I've been approached by the Open Invention Network[1]. They're asking
if Debian would like to join as an organisation to "protect our work
and support open access to intellectual property". I'm not sure either
way myself, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?

[1] http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@...
< sladen> I actually stayed in a hotel and arrived to find a post-it
          note stuck to the mini-bar saying "Paul: This fridge and
          fittings are the correct way around and do not need altering"

[Holger Levsen-2]

Hi Steve,

thanks for bringing this up on -project.

On Thursday 03 July 2008 00:59, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> I've been approached by the Open Invention Network[1]. They're asking
> if Debian would like to join as an organisation to "protect our work
> and support open access to intellectual property". I'm not sure either
> way myself, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?

Well, for one, "intellectual property" is a myth, that needs to die. IMNSHO
anyway. You cannot own an idea.

Secondly, they also seem to think patents are something positive
(http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/patents.php), the usual "patents promote
innovation" bullshit. Nowadays, patents block innovation, a statement which
for example was shared by Ciscos main patent lawyer (!) in an 2006 (?)
interview with C'T magazine from heise. He (who makes his living on this)
stated that Cisco had more costs than benefits from dealing with patents. And
Cisco is a multi-billion dollar company, which can afford patents. Many small
businesses cant... I guess you know the topic and I cant stop here.

Third, whois openinventionnetwork.com reveals that the domain was registered
by Ketchum Inc. A quick search brought me to this suppossed to be neutral (so
not even explicitly critical) article about the company, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchum_Inc.

Let me quote the important bits here:

--begin quote--
Department of Education scandal

The U.S. Department of Education has been accused of breaking Federal Law by
paying commentators to publish articles and appear on talk shows promoting
the agenda of the Bush Administration. The use of taxpayers money for this
purpose is in violation of U.S. law and has been the subject of several
Congressional investigations which reached their peak during the 2004
election battle. Some government reports have exonerated Ketchum and others
strongly criticized the actions of the department and Ketchum. Further,
Ketchum was strongly criticized by the public relations industry for its
inept handling of this crises.

Propaganda scandal

In 2004, Ketchum produced a controversial series of prepackaged news stories
for HHS that featured actors posing as journalists and touted drug benefits.
The ads aired on at least 40 television stations and violated a federal
propaganda ban because they did not inform viewers that they came from the
government, the Government Accountability Office stated.

--end quote--


So in summary, I think I'm not interested. If we want a partnership with an
organisation that deals with the patent nightmare system, I'd probably
suggest the Open Invention Network, which seems much more credible to me.


regards,
        Holger

[Ben Finney-5]

Holger Levsen <holger@...> writes:

> Third, whois openinventionnetwork.com reveals that the domain was
> registered by Ketchum Inc. …
>
> So in summary, I think I'm not interested. If we want a partnership
> with an organisation that deals with the patent nightmare system,
> I'd probably suggest the Open Invention Network, which seems much
> more credible to me.

You just got through pointing out that Open Invention Network *is*
Ketchum Inc. Is there some other organisation that you would suggest
as being much more credible?

--
 \             “Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have |
  `\                                            others.” —Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


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[Holger Levsen-2]

Hi,

On Thursday 03 July 2008 10:28, Ben Finney wrote:
> You just got through pointing out that Open Invention Network *is*
> Ketchum Inc. Is there some other organisation that you would suggest
> as being much more credible?

Unfortunatly not. I was just pointed this (me first dismissing Open Invention
Network and then suggesting them...) out in private and currently I'm
honestly confused.

:-/


regards,
        Holger

[Holger Levsen-2]

Hi,

On Thursday 03 July 2008 10:28, Ben Finney wrote:
> You just got through pointing out that Open Invention Network *is*
> Ketchum Inc.

on a second thought, I basically only brought up, that the domain was
registered by Ketchum Inc., which is a PR company. So one could maybe say
they (OIN) just were unfortunate or whatever...

> Is there some other organisation that you would suggest
> as being much more credible?

The EFF for example, see http://w2.eff.org/patent/ or something like them.

I dont think Debian, as a worldwide non-profit project, should join those
playing within the system of (software) patents which only exists in some
legislations anyway, but rather take a more fundamental stand, that
(software) patents are fundamentally wrong, and work together with those,
that support this way.


regards,
        Holger

[Ben Finney-5]

Steve McIntyre <leader@...> writes:

> I've been approached by the Open Invention Network[1]. They're
> asking if Debian would like to join as an organisation to "protect
> our work and support open access to intellectual property".

It would be best to clarify what they mean. As has been pointed out
many times, "intellectual property" is a nonsense term, with no clear
referent. Beginning a discussion that uses that term is just begging
for everyone involved to understand incompatible things from the same
terms.

So far, it seems their entire site could benefit from

    s/intellectual property/patent/

but you should confirm that with them, and request that if patents are
all they're actually talking about, to please use only that term to
refer to that area of law.

If they want a meaningful discussion, it's best to find out exactly
what things they're offering to "protect", before further discussion.

--
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  `\         am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I |
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Ben Finney


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[Florian Weimer]

* Steve McIntyre:

> I've been approached by the Open Invention Network[1]. They're asking
> if Debian would like to join as an organisation to "protect our work
> and support open access to intellectual property". I'm not sure either
> way myself, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?

I guess they aren't aware that Debian doesn't hold any assests,
intellectual property or otherwise.  Perhaps you could try to clarify
that.  I'm pretty sure that afterwards, they will withdraw their offer
to join.


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[Paul Johnson]

On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 23:54 +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:

> * Steve McIntyre:
>
> > I've been approached by the Open Invention Network[1]. They're asking
> > if Debian would like to join as an organisation to "protect our work
> > and support open access to intellectual property". I'm not sure either
> > way myself, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?
>
> I guess they aren't aware that Debian doesn't hold any assests,
> intellectual property or otherwise.  Perhaps you could try to clarify
> that.  I'm pretty sure that afterwards, they will withdraw their offer
> to join.

Shouldn't they approach SPI instead?

--
Paul Johnson
baloo@...

[Florian Weimer]

* Paul Johnson:

>> I guess they aren't aware that Debian doesn't hold any assests,
>> intellectual property or otherwise.  Perhaps you could try to clarify
>> that.  I'm pretty sure that afterwards, they will withdraw their offer
>> to join.
>
> Shouldn't they approach SPI instead?

SPI doesn't hold that many assets, either. 8-)


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