Nabble - Nikon Users

Required Apology as asked!

2008-08-30T08:10:11Z

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:09:35 -0700

> From: "Mike Galos" <mikegalos@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nikon] OT one time rant & Apologies before you open it
> (was Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing)
> To: "'Nikon Mailing List'" <nikon@...>
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP26F1531FEAD4ED616DACAAB9630@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Skipping the rant but correcting the brief foray into actual, although
> totally incorrect, facts.
>
> JPEG XR if accepted will be an open standard as all JPEG standards are
> JPEG XR was developed by Microsoft Research and not by some mysterious
> "stomped on" small company.
> The Microsoft format submitted was made available as an open spec prior to
> it being submitted to JPEG for standardization.
>

HD Photo format, a technology worked on and research by Microsoft, was
presented by Microsoft at the 41st WG1 meeting and offered as a
standard. Microsoft also reported that they would consider HD Photo for
their 'Open Specification Promise'. A resolution was passed for a group
to asses and report on the HD Photo format.
At the following WG1 meeting a number of resolutions were passed the
results of which, were that the Microsoft's HP Photo Technology was to
be looked at being included in the JPEG Suite, membership and
affiliates where asked to actively participate in assessing the
Microsoft proposals, a new work item was formed called JPEG XR and a
press release was prepared announcing that JPEG & Microsoft were working
together.

From how the resolutions read and the fact the was an offer to include
HD Photo format as 'Open Specification Promise' but no conformation that
Microsoft had. I guess this is why the JPEG XR was adopted as apposed to
JPEG HD or HD Photo. But as I was not there I cannot state this as fact
just my assumption. The JPEG XR proposal was then developed based on the
HD Photo format.

'JPEG XR is designed explicitly for the next generation of digital
cameras, based extensively on the technology introduced by Microsoft in
its Windows Media Format proposals, at present known as HD Photo.'
/Press release 43rd meeting - Kobe JP/

'The JPEG XR specification (Working Draft) was reviewed and will be
balloted for promotion to Committee Draft (CD) status before the 44th
WG1 San Francisco meeting, March 31 to April 4, 2008. In addition to
JPEG XR itself, the creation of two other new parts of the standard on
compliance testing and reference software was approved at the meeting.'
/Press release 43rd meeting - Kobe JP

/So
Fact - JPEG XR was not developed by Microsoft and presented as a standard.
Fact - Microsoft stated that HD Photo will be considered for the 'Open
Specification Promise' (2007).
Fact - When it was proposed to start work on JPEG XR the was no
conformation that HD Photo had been added to Microsoft's 'Open
Specification Promise'.
Fact - JPEG XR is part of JPEG DI(ISO/IEC 29199) proposed standard
Fact - HD Photo is Microsoft's.
Fact - Josh Weisberg, director of Microsoft's Rich Media Group. stated
however, as of Microsoft's March 25th 2008 update, HD Photo is still
not among the technologies that Microsoft has listed as being covered by
the Open Specification Promise.*

*I also couldn't find it there today so unless someone has other
information HD Photo technology is not open source!*

This last fact is worrying as depending on how much code/technology is
being used in JPEG XR. Microsoft could claim it as their's. It would be
nice to see if any contract/agreement/license has been signed between
J.P.E.G and Microsoft........
> If your math skills are good, you have been able to download and implement
> software using it for a couple of years.
>
Sure you can but as the is no evidence that HD Photo technology has been
placed on the OSP list your in the same boat as everyone using the gif
format was when the rights to the technology changed hands.
> In short, 100%, flat out incorrect on every point.
>
Really? personally I have to disagree but then thats the benefit of
having opinions and not being one of the flock/heard/clones.
> Care to apologize to the group for not checking any of your facts before
> posting wildly misleading statements?
>
So Mike if you want me to apologize to the group for misleading then
fine I will do.

I apologize to the list for not identifying the 'Stomped on small
company' as the WG1 members, J.P.E.G members and affiliates, the
academics and developers all of which are involved in developing the
JPEG XR Proposal as part of the JPEG DI(ISO/IEC 29199) proposed standard.

I will also apologize for mistyping of 'I'm putting money that jpeg XR
will not be open in any way.' when answering your post it should have
read 'I'm putting money that HD Photo will not be open in any way.' As
I suffer from dyslexia and didn't reread the last half of the post to
correct any stupid mistakes before hitting send I deserve the flame for
that.

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-30T07:17:48Z

MS's OS's are in some ways problematic. Vista got a bad rap early on
due to hardware support issues and some really stupid default install
choices, but in other ways it has some major advantages over Mac OS.
Particularly Vista's version of the Explorer file browser makes Finder
look like the utter disaster it is. And OS X is a gem overall but
isn't really much better than Vista (As a note, I own and use both
OS's daily. Like both of them. Hate Finder).

But MS is a application developer par excellence unlike Apple (which
outside of their Pro Audio and Video apps is a piss-poor app developer
who often kills its few successes. Apple has also bought pretty much
every successful app they've released from smaller companies while
MS's biggest successes are all in-house). Nothing even vaguely touches
Office, especially Excel and the Exchange groupware solution is
light-years ahead of the competition (Only Google Apps can come
close). Microsoft has also willing to evolve poor solutions into
better ones (Exchange, Outlook, SQL Server, Windows). They don't
deserve half the bad rap they get, even for the OS's (Apple has it
easy supporting a closed, easily testable platform. And their OS is
also a decade older than MS's, the current version of Windows really
dates back to Windows 2000, while OS X dates back to NeXTSTEP in
1988).

If you're going to compare Apple to MS, try the Apple TV vs the XBox
360 and Media Center sometime. The latter simply destroys the former
in functionality and ease of use.

MS has also been pouring resources into Imaging R&D. JPEG XR is their
baby, and conversely their support is needed to make a follow-on to
JPEG a reality given their control of the Desktop market and
significant presence in the Browser market. They also make one of the
dominant handheld OS's (which got to its position on merit, not
buyouts).

-Adam

On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Stephen Barrett
<stephen.barrett@...> wrote:

> Mike you are pretty pro Microsoft do you work for them or something?
> Personally I have both Mac and WIndows and I am appalled just how bad
> Windows is. It is a bit like comparing Skoda to Mercedes, actually
> Mercedes is pretty average in their build and engineering better to
> compare Skoda to Mazda or Honda to get an idea of the quality gap
> between the two.
>
> I use Mac for everything except CAM which is one thing it is hard to
> get software for that runs on Mac. Well you can get CAM on the Mac but
> the software is rubbish.
>
> Back to the topic Nikon does a deal with MS. There is an ancient
> technique in the asian theory of war to take a tiger by the tail. It
> has been put in another way if you are small make friends with the
> tiger. Your enemies won't bother you because they are scared of the
> tiger, and you will be carried along to much better things by the
> tiger's strength. It might be this is Nikon's plan. After all Canon is
> a much larger company and will be happy to finish Nikon as a competitor.
>
> Stephen
>
>
> On 30/08/2008, at 6:14 AM, Mike Galos wrote:
> (lots of stuff I deleted for the sake of those who get the abridged
> version)
>
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>

--
M. Adam Maas
http://www.mawz.ca
Explorations of the City Around Us.

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-30T06:53:14Z

Mike you are pretty pro Microsoft do you work for them or something?
Personally I have both Mac and WIndows and I am appalled just how bad
Windows is. It is a bit like comparing Skoda to Mercedes, actually
Mercedes is pretty average in their build and engineering better to
compare Skoda to Mazda or Honda to get an idea of the quality gap
between the two.

I use Mac for everything except CAM which is one thing it is hard to
get software for that runs on Mac. Well you can get CAM on the Mac but
the software is rubbish.

Back to the topic Nikon does a deal with MS. There is an ancient
technique in the asian theory of war to take a tiger by the tail. It
has been put in another way if you are small make friends with the
tiger. Your enemies won't bother you because they are scared of the
tiger, and you will be carried along to much better things by the
tiger's strength. It might be this is Nikon's plan. After all Canon is
a much larger company and will be happy to finish Nikon as a competitor.

Stephen

On 30/08/2008, at 6:14 AM, Mike Galos wrote:
(lots of stuff I deleted for the sake of those who get the abridged
version)

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-29T13:44:58Z

Interesting tactic, saying "I will not argue about x" and arguing about x in
that same sentence... :-)

Tiny is a proportion. Whether it's 1 in a hundred or 10 million in a
billion, 1% is still tiny.

More importantly, whether Nikon cross licenses with Microsoft has no impact
either way on whether they license (and "free" licenses are still
restrictive licenses) their data to companies that sell Linux. The choices
are not dependant on each other.

Cross licensing with Microsoft helps 95% of their customers and has no
impact on the other 5%. Whether you think Nikon should give their research
away is not changed in the least by a cross-license.

You can argue that every company ought to consider the salaries and overhead
costs of their R&D staff and the lost potential profit a gift to the world.
That's certainly a valid argument. I disagree with it but it is a valid
argument.

You could equally argue that Nikon should sell the D3 for the cost of the
raw materials and consider the salaries and overhead costs of all their
employees and the lost potential profit a gift to the world.
That's certainly an equally valid argument. I disagree with it as well. I'd
like that $50 D3 but I'd like there to be a D4 and D5 even more.

What's hard to argue is why the work of researchers and scientists and
engineers must be given away but the work of sales reps and marketing staff
and executives and factory workers and janitors and support staff and the
shipping clerks should be passed on to the consumer.

To say all makes sense.
To say none makes sense.
To say that only those who invent and create for a living are owed nothing
for their work is, at best, not thought through and, at worst, just
devaluing those people who create the improvements in the world.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. David Kirkby

I will not argue with you that linux is a "tiny group", but I would add
that it is a group of millions, perhaps 10's of millions. Not exactly tiny.

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Re: OT one time rant & Apologies before you open it (was Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing)

2008-08-29T13:09:35Z

Skipping the rant but correcting the brief foray into actual, although
totally incorrect, facts.

JPEG XR if accepted will be an open standard as all JPEG standards are
JPEG XR was developed by Microsoft Research and not by some mysterious
"stomped on" small company.

The Microsoft format submitted was made available as an open spec prior to
it being submitted to JPEG for standardization.
If your math skills are good, you have been able to download and implement
software using it for a couple of years.

In short, 100%, flat out incorrect on every point.

Care to apologize to the group for not checking any of your facts before
posting wildly misleading statements?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul

...

Mike regards jpeg XR and Photosynth Microsoft did what they always do
went and stomped on a small company with a great idea and re badged it
as theirs! Jpeg was supposed to be an open standard........... I'm
putting money that jpeg XR will not be open in any way.

...

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-29T12:51:32Z

People see what they want to see...

Which is why using numbers is more accurate than watching airport waiting
rooms.

Worldwide Macintosh sales last quarter: 2.5M
Worldwide PC sales last quarter: 71.9M
Total worldwide sales of Mac and PC: 74.4M

2.5/74.4 = 3.36%

And that was with a record quarter for Apple's sales.

-----Original Message-----
From: nikon-bounces@... [mailto:nikon-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Nikon List

...

The Mac is doing much better than its reported 8% of the market would
indicate.

...

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-29T12:14:01Z

I don't think it matters ONE BIT what 95% of all desktop computers
run. MOST desktop computers -- most computers in general, just do
word processing, spread sheets, e-mail and calendar type scheduling.

Some do actual computing -- engineering stuff, and that is pretty
evenly broken down between Unix/Linux and Windoz in my experience.

Then there is the creative market, and that is virtually all owned by
Apple. People get serious about photography and go buy a Mac. THAT
IS THE MARKET APPLE NEEDS TO BE TIED TO, not the 95% of the droids in
office cubicals.

Also, in late 2006, I started seeing more and more Mac laptops in
airports, especially the lounges. Those lounges, which charge rather
stiff membership fees, are the stomping grounds of frequent flyers.
Those lounges really tilted to the Mac. As of late last year, there
were more Macs than PCs. The other thing I found interesting was
that the PCs tended to be older machines, and many of the users went
out of their way to get plugged into power outlets, even if that
meant sitting on the floor, and indicator that the battery is getting
old, and taking less of a charge.

The Mac is doing much better than its reported 8% of the market would
indicate.

On Aug 29, 2008, at 5:00 AM, nikon-request@... wrote:

> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:01:07 +0100
> From: Ivan Virgili <ivnmad@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nikon] Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing
> To: Nikon Mailing List <nikon@...>
> Message-ID: <48B71213.8020600@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> You spotted the problem... 95% of the desktop market !!!
> Microsoft constantly tries to decide what you should run on your
> computer, in what format you should save your documents, photos, etc.
> Everything they do it towards one goal: lock people into their
> "systems".

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OT one time rant & Apologies before you open it (was Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing)

2008-08-29T05:53:54Z

Mike and others blindly following Microsoft into the past,

Quite simply and you can go and research the documents and patents
proving this if you like I'm not going to repeat them all.
Microsoft standard operating procedure is go out, look at everything,
steal or copy the idea's. Then build a heavily bloated, badly running,
unfinished beta version of the concept/idea/product. Then over charge
the public to beta test the product until following many service packs
and hot fixe's when it finally works as described they withdraw support
and release the next peice of rubbish!
They stole the GUI concept after seeing a photcopy companys R&D into
user interfaces(I'll let you find out which one it was). They then sold
the idea as their own to IBM while working for IBM on OS1/2 they used
IBM's R&D budget to develop Windows, at the point they could get it to
market they then dropped IBM like a stone claiming a conflict on
interests. Microsoft have also broken code(malicious Software removal
tool which killed a number of third party Firewalls) on purpose to gain
an advantage, have been delaying publication of a new standard to gain a
jump on the competition even when they have signed up to the
standard(USB2)...... the list is just endless. So this explians my
comments about holding up progress. --- rant over 'sigh'------

Now I know 95% of people who reply to research companies use a Microsoft
OS. Yes I know, that no matter how bad they are, (windows 3, millennium,
Vista all spring to mind as being horrendous), the bulk of the public
use them. But when you can't buy a computer these days without it being
locked into Microsoft's products its going to always be the popular OS.

Yes I'm pissed I've just had a huge argument with Sony over the fact
they have locked there new Vaio laptops into Vista and have made NDC
agreements with the component suppliers so you cannot get drivers from
anyone but them and they will not support anything but Vista due to
there latest Microsoft agreement!!!! So you can see why I think this
could be the thin end of the wedge, think I'm over reacting Sony used to
build there own computers until they were persuaded to use Intel and
Microsoft.

If you want my humble opinion Nikon should be biting off IBM, AMD, Sony,
Toshiba and the rest of the cell research group's collective hands.
Toshiba built a laptop with a pair of PS3 Cell's on a health and
Robinson motherboard and succeeded (in if memory serves me right) in
rendering HD video in 30mins which the the fastest Intel/Microsoft setup
with the same source took 12hrs! Go look up Cell

Will this help Microsoft users? probably, will it affect Mac users,
probably not, but that said I doubt Nikon would drop Mac support.

Mike regards jpeg XR and Photosynth Microsoft did what they always do
went and stomped on a small company with a great idea and re badged it
as theirs! Jpeg was supposed to be an open standard........... I'm
putting money that jpeg XR will not be open in any way.

Actually if you think Nikon was out of order by encrypting WB on the D2x
and D3 then you will be disgusted at how Microsoft charges companies for
a lic so they can use Microsoft API's and Hooks to enable software to
integrate correctly with XP/Vista/Server etc and then refused to provide
complete documentation describing how they worked. For example the
ability for a programme to sub the enter key for a left mouseclick was
until a court case a couple of years ago not provided via the SDK &
documentation you have to reverse engineer the code!

anyway Microsoft rant over and I will not reply as I'd rather chat about
camera's or what Nikon might have up there sleeve.

2 exceed possessors pulling data of 2 matched FX's chips with the
improved buffer in a nice modular body system sounds nice....... now
where did I see that? lol :) :) :)

Rgdz

> Well, that was a refreshingly content free rant about the company that
> brought us the new JPEG XR (HD Photo) and Photosynth.
>
> Please explain how working better with 95% of the computers in the world is
> bad for Nikon.
>

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T16:04:39Z

Actually, it's a patent cross-licensing agreement which isn't "I won't sue
you", it's "you can use my stuff in your products and I can use yours in
mine".

That's a win for both companies and their customers. It is precisely how the
sharing of information you are advocating is done from companies that
actually want to retain ownership of the research they worked so hard to
develop.

Rather than trade information on Nikon products with information on
Microsoft products, Nikon could have not shared the info with Microsoft.
That would be bad for their joint customers and benefitted no one.

Rather than trade information on Nikon products with information on
Microsoft products, Nikon could have given away the results of millions of
dollars worth of R&D to "the commons" including Canon and other competitors
and just thrown away their R&D investment. That would also be bad for their
Nikon's customers who end up paying for that R&D and like the innovation to
show up in the products they buy but it does benefit Nikon's competitors who
get the benefits of all the work without having to actually invent anything
themselves.

This cross license hurts nobody and helps that 95% of Nikon's customers who
also use Windows.

That's absolutely a win for all of us. (Well, except for those people who
want to benefit from other people's work)

-----Original Message-----
From: Ivan Virgili
...

I am disappointed because they joined Microsoft IP agreement, that has
nothing to do with making better products !!!
To keep it simple, the basic agreement says "I recognise your patents if
you recognise mine, and we promise each other not to sue the other party".

Why would that make things work better or create better products?

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T15:11:56Z

Mike Galos wrote:
> Please explain how Nikon working better with Windows does anything one way
> or the other with their decisions to not spend their limited R&D money to
> develop and then give away free drivers to a tiny group of users.

I will not argue with you that linux is a "tiny group", but I would add
that it is a group of millions, perhaps 10's of millions. Not exactly tiny.

Personally I do not run Linux, and while I have run it some times in the
past, it is not something I've used a lot. (I leave it as an exercise
for anyone interested to find out what I'm using, but it is neither a
Mac, a Windows PC or Linux).

Secondly, if Nikon provided detailed technical information on their
products, they would not need to write drivers for Linux. The
open-source community will write drivers if they want them.

Without that information, open-source developers have to spend time
reverse engineering products, which is a waste of their time. But
sometimes it is not possible to do it quite as well as the manufacturer
if they hold information back.

> Really. I can't see any possible connection between the two decisions or any
> possible benefit to Nikon for changing either decision.
>
> What you seem to be saying is that Nikon should intentionally work worse for
> 95% of their customers purely as an endorsement of the views of less than 1%
> of users about an agenda that has nothing to do with photography.

There are many reasons people don't use Windows.

> So how on earth would that be good for Nikon and Nikon's customers?

People would write software to get the best from Nikon hardware. That
might very well give it an edge over Canon hardware.

Given a choice of printer, scanner, or whatever else where one
manufacturer makes technical information available, and another does
not, I'd chose the former each time.

Many companies are waking up to this fact. It seems Nikon have not yet,
but I suspect they will in due course.

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T15:03:48Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 28/08/08 22:22, Mike Galos wrote:
> Please explain how Nikon working better with Windows does anything one way
> or the other with their decisions to not spend their limited R&D money to
> develop and then give away free drivers to a tiny group of users.

I am not going to get into a long discussion, because we would never
finish it and I do not think this is the right place anyway.

I am not disappointed about Nikon working with Microsoft.

I am disappointed because they joined Microsoft IP agreement, that has
nothing to do with making better products !!!
To keep it simple, the basic agreement says "I recognise your patents if
you recognise mine, and we promise each other not to sue the other party".

Why would that make things work better or create better products?

They could have spent the money they gave their lawyers on other things.
I am going to stop here.

Nikon can release their drivers for Linux with very little investment
and they do not even need to release the source code either.
Loads of other companies do it.
They could even charge for them, if they wanted to.

A lot of people associate Linux = free.
Yes, you can have Linux for free as well, if you are true to Linux you
should also release the source code, but you can be a proprietary
software company and work with Linux (Oracle, IBM, Symantec, etc. are
just a few of examples)

Regards,

Ivan

P.S. I am also pretty sure that Linux is on much more than 1% of the
desktops around the world.

- --
Ivan Virgili
http://www.ivanvirgili.com
GNU/Linux user #292882

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T14:22:13Z

Please explain how Nikon working better with Windows does anything one way
or the other with their decisions to not spend their limited R&D money to
develop and then give away free drivers to a tiny group of users.

Really. I can't see any possible connection between the two decisions or any
possible benefit to Nikon for changing either decision.

What you seem to be saying is that Nikon should intentionally work worse for
95% of their customers purely as an endorsement of the views of less than 1%
of users about an agenda that has nothing to do with photography.

So how on earth would that be good for Nikon and Nikon's customers?

-----Original Message-----
From: Ivan Virgili

On 28/08/08 16:58, Mike Galos wrote:
> Well, that was a refreshingly content free rant about the company that
> brought us the new JPEG XR (HD Photo) and Photosynth.
>
> Please explain how working better with 95% of the computers in the world
is
> bad for Nikon.

You spotted the problem... 95% of the desktop market !!!
Microsoft constantly tries to decide what you should run on your
computer, in what format you should save your documents, photos, etc.
Everything they do it towards one goal: lock people into their "systems".

I am disappointed that Nikon signed that kind of deal, because in a way
they endorsed Microsoft strategy, but I am not surprised, because they
have always been a "closed" company.

The only time I still have to use Windows is when I need to scan my
negatives with my Nikon Coolscan IV, since there is no way I can do it
with Linux. I mean, I could scan the negatives with Linux software and a
Nikon Coolscan IV, but I would not achieve the same quality.
This is because Nikon does not provide drivers or software for Linux.
For everything else, I am free to chose the software I want to.

Ivan

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T14:01:14Z

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On 28/08/08 10:32, Paul wrote:
> This has to be the single biggest mistake Nikon have ever made! Why oh
> Why do Nikon want to align themselves with a company known for stifling
> innovation and holding up progress?

I totally agree... Ivan

- --
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GNU/Linux user #292882

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T14:01:07Z

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Hash: SHA1

On 28/08/08 16:58, Mike Galos wrote:
> Well, that was a refreshingly content free rant about the company that
> brought us the new JPEG XR (HD Photo) and Photosynth.
>
> Please explain how working better with 95% of the computers in the world is
> bad for Nikon.

You spotted the problem... 95% of the desktop market !!!
Microsoft constantly tries to decide what you should run on your
computer, in what format you should save your documents, photos, etc.
Everything they do it towards one goal: lock people into their "systems".

I am disappointed that Nikon signed that kind of deal, because in a way
they endorsed Microsoft strategy, but I am not surprised, because they
have always been a "closed" company.

The only time I still have to use Windows is when I need to scan my
negatives with my Nikon Coolscan IV, since there is no way I can do it
with Linux. I mean, I could scan the negatives with Linux software and a
Nikon Coolscan IV, but I would not achieve the same quality.
This is because Nikon does not provide drivers or software for Linux.
For everything else, I am free to chose the software I want to.

Ivan

- --
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http://www.ivanvirgili.com
GNU/Linux user #292882

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GNU/Linux user #292882

Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T11:20:22Z

Indeed. MS has been doing a LOT of R&D on imaging in the last 5 years.
And is in a position to drive the adoption of the JPEG replacement.
Nikon getting in close with this is a good thing.

-Adam

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Mike Galos <mikegalos@...> wrote:

> Well, that was a refreshingly content free rant about the company that
> brought us the new JPEG XR (HD Photo) and Photosynth.
>
> Please explain how working better with 95% of the computers in the world is
> bad for Nikon.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul
> Subject: Re: [Nikon] Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing
>
> This has to be the single biggest mistake Nikon have ever made! Why oh
> Why do Nikon want to align themselves with a company known for stifling
> innovation and holding up progress?
>
> Nikon if your listening PLEASE PLEASE don't have anything to do with
> this company when it comes to the Pro line of products!
>
> I'm devastated that Nikon have done this :(
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nikon mailing list
> Nikon@...
> http://nikonusers.com/mailman/listinfo/nikon_nikonusers.com
>

Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T08:58:52Z

Well, that was a refreshingly content free rant about the company that
brought us the new JPEG XR (HD Photo) and Photosynth.

Please explain how working better with 95% of the computers in the world is
bad for Nikon.

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul
Subject: Re: [Nikon] Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

This has to be the single biggest mistake Nikon have ever made! Why oh
Why do Nikon want to align themselves with a company known for stifling
innovation and holding up progress?

Nikon if your listening PLEASE PLEASE don't have anything to do with
this company when it comes to the Pro line of products!

I'm devastated that Nikon have done this :(

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T08:52:04Z

Thank you! I agree and was dismayed at this clumsy step backwards.
=:-!

jacie

On Aug 28, 2008, at 2:32 , Paul wrote:

> This has to be the single biggest mistake Nikon have ever made! Why oh
> Why do Nikon want to align themselves with a company known for
> stifling
> innovation and holding up progress?

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T04:58:52Z

This one I would like to hear more about. The Japanese are very good
though at running a deal in a dry eyed fashion and even if does come
about I don't think they will surrender anything they don't have to.

Stephen

On 28/08/2008, at 7:02 PM, Paul wrote:

> This has to be the single biggest mistake Nikon have ever made! Why oh
> Why do Nikon want to align themselves with a company known for
> stifling
> innovation and holding up progress?
>
> Nikon if your listening PLEASE PLEASE don't have anything to do with
> this company when it comes to the Pro line of products!
>
> I'm devastated that Nikon have done this :(
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:23:02 -0700
>> From: "Mike Galos" <mikegalos@...>
>> Subject: [Nikon] Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing
>> To: "'Nikon Mailing List'" <nikon@...>
>> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP29D2D24B12312183815EE6B9600@...>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>
>> Microsoft and Nikon Enter Into Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
>>
>> Agreement furthers Microsoft and Nikon collaboration on new
>> products and
>> features in digital imaging.
>>
>> REDMOND, Wash., and TOKYO - Aug. 27, 2008 - Microsoft Corp. and
>> Nikon Corp.
>> have signed a patent cross-licensing agreement to further the
>> development of
>> each company's current and future product lines.
>>
>> The agreement covers digital cameras made by Nikon as well as a
>> broad range
>> of other consumer products each company manufactures and sells. The
>> agreement was signed by representatives from both companies at
>> Microsoft's
>> headquarters in Redmond, Wash. Although the contents of the
>> agreement have
>> not been disclosed, the parties indicated that Microsoft is being
>> compensated by Nikon.
>>
>> Microsoft and Nikon have a long history of collaborating to bring
>> high-quality, cutting-edge consumer products to the market, including
>> wireless cameras and RAW processing technologies. The companies
>> believe that
>> this patent cross-licensing agreement will substantially benefit
>> customers
>> of consumer products including digital cameras. Both parties will
>> be able to
>> innovate openly with each other's technologies, enabling new
>> features and
>> products to come to market.
>>
>> More at
>> http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2008/aug08/08-27MSNikonPatentPR.msp
>> x
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nikon mailing list
> Nikon@...
> http://nikonusers.com/mailman/listinfo/nikon_nikonusers.com

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Re: Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-28T02:32:03Z

This has to be the single biggest mistake Nikon have ever made! Why oh
Why do Nikon want to align themselves with a company known for stifling
innovation and holding up progress?

Nikon if your listening PLEASE PLEASE don't have anything to do with
this company when it comes to the Pro line of products!

I'm devastated that Nikon have done this :(

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:23:02 -0700
> From: "Mike Galos" <mikegalos@...>
> Subject: [Nikon] Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing
> To: "'Nikon Mailing List'" <nikon@...>
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP29D2D24B12312183815EE6B9600@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Microsoft and Nikon Enter Into Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
>
> Agreement furthers Microsoft and Nikon collaboration on new products and
> features in digital imaging.
>
> REDMOND, Wash., and TOKYO - Aug. 27, 2008 - Microsoft Corp. and Nikon Corp.
> have signed a patent cross-licensing agreement to further the development of
> each company's current and future product lines.
>
> The agreement covers digital cameras made by Nikon as well as a broad range
> of other consumer products each company manufactures and sells. The
> agreement was signed by representatives from both companies at Microsoft's
> headquarters in Redmond, Wash. Although the contents of the agreement have
> not been disclosed, the parties indicated that Microsoft is being
> compensated by Nikon.
>
> Microsoft and Nikon have a long history of collaborating to bring
> high-quality, cutting-edge consumer products to the market, including
> wireless cameras and RAW processing technologies. The companies believe that
> this patent cross-licensing agreement will substantially benefit customers
> of consumer products including digital cameras. Both parties will be able to
> innovate openly with each other's technologies, enabling new features and
> products to come to market.
>
> More at
> http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2008/aug08/08-27MSNikonPatentPR.msp
> x
>

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Microsoft and Nikon Cross Licensing

2008-08-27T19:23:02Z

Microsoft and Nikon Enter Into Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement

Agreement furthers Microsoft and Nikon collaboration on new products and
features in digital imaging.

REDMOND, Wash., and TOKYO - Aug. 27, 2008 - Microsoft Corp. and Nikon Corp.
have signed a patent cross-licensing agreement to further the development of
each company's current and future product lines.

The agreement covers digital cameras made by Nikon as well as a broad range
of other consumer products each company manufactures and sells. The
agreement was signed by representatives from both companies at Microsoft's
headquarters in Redmond, Wash. Although the contents of the agreement have
not been disclosed, the parties indicated that Microsoft is being
compensated by Nikon.

Microsoft and Nikon have a long history of collaborating to bring
high-quality, cutting-edge consumer products to the market, including
wireless cameras and RAW processing technologies. The companies believe that
this patent cross-licensing agreement will substantially benefit customers
of consumer products including digital cameras. Both parties will be able to
innovate openly with each other's technologies, enabling new features and
products to come to market.

More at
http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2008/aug08/08-27MSNikonPatentPR.msp
x

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Re: EBay Stores

2008-07-29T01:05:22Z

"Jonathan Levy" <jonlevy73@...> wrote:

> I was thinking about purchasing a D300 kit from an ebay store. Are there
> any to stay away from?

Jonathan

I have bought a D3 and several lenses from Digitalrev in Hong Kong and have
always had swify delivery and good responses. Damn good prices too :-)

Brian

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EBay Stores

2008-07-28T18:51:28Z

I was thinking about purchasing a D300 kit from an ebay store. Are there
any to stay away from?

Jonathan
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Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-23T10:43:36Z

On 22/07/08 22:58, Francis Corvin wrote:
> Sometimes you don't know what you need. Stupid but illustrative
> example: I learnt to cook without a microwave oven. I never really
> had a need for one. But hey, my parents bought one, so I started
> using it. Now I would never go back to not having one.

That is true, sometimes you do not know if you "need" something until
you have it.

At the same time if you still did not have a microwave oven, you would
have still been able to keep cooking and live without it. Life would
have not been as easy, but you would have survived. Moreover, you did
not go out and bought one only because they were in the shops.

If some people like having "the best and the latest", even if they do
not "really" need it, and are ready to spend (or waste) a lot of money
in the process, I am fine with it (it a "free" world).
The point is that rationally, I think you should only upgrade if there
is a valid reason for doing it and not just for the fun of it,
especially if you do not have millions in the bank.

Ciao,

Ivan

--
Ivan Virgili
http://www.ivanvirgili.com
GNU/Linux user #292882

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Ivan Virgili
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GNU/Linux user #292882

Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the

2008-07-22T15:07:30Z

Maybe the upcoming D3x or D3s or whatever will have a crop mode of sufficient resolution to meet your needs.
JB

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:03:12 +1000
From: "Richards, Murray" <murray.richards@...>
Subject: [Nikon] Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the
most recent D3
To: <nikon@...>
Message-ID:
<AF84A86CEA12714D837C517BB64C62DA046A6D4D@...>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Cameras are just like PC's (or macs). If you wait to afford the latest
and greatest, you can guarantee that by the time you can afford it, the
even newer model is just around the corner from the one you have been
saving up for over the past year.

No need to throw away or upgrade from something that works for you.

My D1X used to get me covers for magazines, so I still use it on
occasion as a 3rd or 4th camera at events (usually remotely triggered) -
it still works fine and produces great images.

As a professional sports photographer, I am keen to get hold of a couple
of D3's because of the increased number of focus points, better noise
reduction at higher ISO levels and increased FPS rate.

An I going to trade in my two D2Xs cameras - NO WAY !! (probably the 2
D2H's though).

Why, well actually I invested in a couple of good DX lenses (17-55,
12-24 and 10.5 fisheye). On the D3 in "DX Format" I get images of only
2784x1848 as the largest image from my investment in good DX lenses. On
my "old" D2Xs cameras using the same lenses I get images of 4288x2848.

The D3 may be a great camera and I will get a couple, but until it can
produce images using Nikon DX lenses that are at least equal to what I
can get with my 'superseded' Nikon D2Xs cameras - the 'old' cameras will
produce bigger files for me.

New isn't always better - my wife keeps telling me that to, but I think
she has other reasons for saying that...

Happy shooting.
Murray.

www.ssp.net.au

------------------------------

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End of Nikon Digest, Vol 36, Issue 7
************************************

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Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-22T14:58:18Z

At 2008-07-22 20:41, Ivan Virgili wrote:

>You got me wrong.. Change is good, but you only need to change if you
>need to, not because everyone else is doing it !!!

Sometimes you don't know what you need. Stupid but illustrative
example: I learnt to cook without a microwave oven. I never really
had a need for one. But hey, my parents bought one, so I started
using it. Now I would never go back to not having one.

In spite of what people claim from time to time, Nikon does take
account of the needs of photographers when they develop their next
generation of cameras, otherwise they would not have been so
successful. Whether those needs are discovered before or after buying
the camera is not really the issue, or is it?

Regards,

Francis

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Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-22T13:04:57Z

I agree with Ivan. If your work flow needs the latest and greatest, go for
it. I have been a digital shooter since the D1 but before that I had a
large film camera inventory. I shot and owned everything from a Nikkormat
FTN to the F5 with a lot in between. Even though it was not state of the
art, I preferred an F4s to even the F5 and certainly over the F2 and F3 and
all the N series. I shot for fun and pleasure and found the F4s was the
perfect blend of MF and AF. I shoot with a D200 after shooting with my
wife's throwaways (she shoots for a living while I argue points of law) and
went through her used Fuji S2Pros, S3Pros and finally I bit the bullet and
bought the D200. I edit a monthly magazine for our Bar Association and most
of my shots will be reproduced in BW but my love is wildlife and the D200
works great as long as I don't try to go over ISO 400 and expose correctly.
I guess if I was shooting for national magazines, I might need the lower
light capability of the D300, D3, D700 or whatever but it is just money
wasted trying to keep up with the Jones'. I am on several forums with like
photographers who probably have never sold their work (I have) but they are
like alcoholics when a new product comes out even though only they can
really see the difference. Nothing wrong with buying the latest as soon as
possible but much is vanity and has nothing to do with need. I see
instances where the need for the new might be necessary but not as often as
those who rationalize and justify the expenditures try to tell me.

Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivan Virgili" <ivnmad@...>
To: "Nikon Mailing List" <nikon@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Nikon] Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the
most recent D3

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 22/07/08 20:31, Marc Martineau wrote:
>> Don't really agree...
>>
>> The D300 incorpores a new CMOS sensor... it's 75% of the upgrade from
>> a D200 to a D300... that's quite am improvement ! Same from D2X Xs to
>> D3 ! ! !
>>
>> If you don't use it because you consider this as a toy... then there's
>> a problem ! ! ! :-)))
>>
>> In a change like this, we inadvertently ply with more than 75% of the
>> changes... without really knowing sometimes...
>>
>> CHANGE IS GOOD ! :-)))
>>
>> Marc
>
> You got me wrong.. Change is good, but you only need to change if you
> need to, not because everyone else is doing it !!!
>
> For ex. I am still using film cameras, because I do not need digital
> cameras. I take 98% of my pictures in black and white, I do not need to
> supply my photos to someone immediately, etc.
> Why should I go digital?
> If I decided to go digital and buy a D700, why should I change it for a
> D800 in a year time?
>
> That was what I meant.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Ivan
>
> - --
> Ivan Virgili
> http://www.ivanvirgili.com
> GNU/Linux user #292882
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> =AXmH
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nikon mailing list
> Nikon@...
> http://nikonusers.com/mailman/listinfo/nikon_nikonusers.com
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1567 - Release Date: 7/22/2008
> 4:05 PM
>
>
>

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Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-22T12:41:48Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 22/07/08 20:31, Marc Martineau wrote:

> Don't really agree...
>
> The D300 incorpores a new CMOS sensor... it's 75% of the upgrade from
> a D200 to a D300... that's quite am improvement ! Same from D2X Xs to
> D3 ! ! !
>
> If you don't use it because you consider this as a toy... then there's
> a problem ! ! ! :-)))
>
> In a change like this, we inadvertently ply with more than 75% of the
> changes... without really knowing sometimes...
>
> CHANGE IS GOOD ! :-)))
>
> Marc

You got me wrong.. Change is good, but you only need to change if you
need to, not because everyone else is doing it !!!

For ex. I am still using film cameras, because I do not need digital
cameras. I take 98% of my pictures in black and white, I do not need to
supply my photos to someone immediately, etc.
Why should I go digital?
If I decided to go digital and buy a D700, why should I change it for a
D800 in a year time?

That was what I meant.

Ciao,

Ivan

- --
Ivan Virgili
http://www.ivanvirgili.com
GNU/Linux user #292882

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NucAoM+pmp+JzyN7p+MxSJpyluvc+MRz
=AXmH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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GNU/Linux user #292882

Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-22T12:31:59Z

Don't really agree...

The D300 incorpores a new CMOS sensor... it's 75% of the upgrade from
a D200 to a D300... that's quite am improvement ! Same from D2X Xs to
D3 ! ! !

If you don't use it because you consider this as a toy... then there's
a problem ! ! ! :-)))

In a change like this, we inadvertently ply with more than 75% of the
changes... without really knowing sometimes...

CHANGE IS GOOD ! :-)))

Marc

On 22-Jul-08, at 3:22 PM, Ivan Virgili wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 22/07/08 08:03, Richards, Murray wrote:
>> Cameras are just like PC's (or macs). If you wait to afford the
>> latest
>> and greatest, you can guarantee that by the time you can afford it,
>> the
>> even newer model is just around the corner from the one you have been
>> saving up for over the past year.
>>
>> No need to throw away or upgrade from something that works for you.
>
> I totally agree..
> Some people like "toys" and like having the latest ones, but they
> always
> end up using the same tools/functions on the new toys as on the old
> ones, while spending a lot of money for a little or none improvement
> to
> their "lives".
>
> Ciao,
>
> Ivan
>
> - --
> Ivan Virgili
> http://www.ivanvirgili.com
> GNU/Linux user #292882
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
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> 4joAnjGI9yILYl/wfvWL9lG9WERrFhLE
> =c1WH
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nikon mailing list
> Nikon@...
> http://nikonusers.com/mailman/listinfo/nikon_nikonusers.com

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Re: Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-22T12:22:54Z

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 22/07/08 08:03, Richards, Murray wrote:
> Cameras are just like PC's (or macs). If you wait to afford the latest
> and greatest, you can guarantee that by the time you can afford it, the
> even newer model is just around the corner from the one you have been
> saving up for over the past year.
>
> No need to throw away or upgrade from something that works for you.

I totally agree..
Some people like "toys" and like having the latest ones, but they always
end up using the same tools/functions on the new toys as on the old
ones, while spending a lot of money for a little or none improvement to
their "lives".

Ciao,

Ivan

- --
Ivan Virgili
http://www.ivanvirgili.com
GNU/Linux user #292882

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

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4joAnjGI9yILYl/wfvWL9lG9WERrFhLE
=c1WH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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GNU/Linux user #292882

Keeping "old" Nikon gear because its better than the most recent D3

2008-07-22T00:03:12Z

Cameras are just like PC's (or macs). If you wait to afford the latest
and greatest, you can guarantee that by the time you can afford it, the
even newer model is just around the corner from the one you have been
saving up for over the past year.

No need to throw away or upgrade from something that works for you.

My D1X used to get me covers for magazines, so I still use it on
occasion as a 3rd or 4th camera at events (usually remotely triggered) -
it still works fine and produces great images.

As a professional sports photographer, I am keen to get hold of a couple
of D3's because of the increased number of focus points, better noise
reduction at higher ISO levels and increased FPS rate.

An I going to trade in my two D2Xs cameras - NO WAY !! (probably the 2
D2H's though).

Why, well actually I invested in a couple of good DX lenses (17-55,
12-24 and 10.5 fisheye). On the D3 in "DX Format" I get images of only
2784x1848 as the largest image from my investment in good DX lenses. On
my "old" D2Xs cameras using the same lenses I get images of 4288x2848.

The D3 may be a great camera and I will get a couple, but until it can
produce images using Nikon DX lenses that are at least equal to what I
can get with my 'superseded' Nikon D2Xs cameras - the 'old' cameras will
produce bigger files for me.

New isn't always better - my wife keeps telling me that to, but I think
she has other reasons for saying that...

Happy shooting.
Murray.

www.ssp.net.au

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Re: Photos r that last?

2008-07-14T22:28:25Z

Hard drives have become SO inexpensive, I believe archiving on hard
drives to be an option. I am doing it.

Also, there are devices that you can plug a naked drive into, and
connect to your computer via Firewire or USB. No expensive enclosure
with power supply required.

However, I am concerned that you archive "on HOME redundant hard
drives." I would strongly recommend you have some off-site storage.
I use a safety deposit box at a bank. If I didn't work from home I
might consider moving back-ups between the office and home, which is
what I used to do. Fire can really ruin your day, or year, or life.
Losing everything, including photographs is a real issue, made MUCH
better by digital. With negatives or slides, we HAD to have them at
one location, unless we wanted to make copies, which was expensive.
Now, it really isn't a problem.

There ARE commercial concerns which will do scanning for you. I
haven't used any as I have two Nikon film scanners.

It IS a good idea to keep legacy readers around. I can still read
5.25 inch soft sectored floppy drives. I MAY have a problem with the
equipment to read the hard sectored floppies, but I don't know yet.
The 3.5 inch floppies are not an issue at all. I test my CDs and
DVDs regularly, and so far they are fine. I keep them in absolute
darkness, which I feel is important. I have only been using CDs for
10-15 years, and DVDs for only about eight, so I don't know about
long term storage. The sad thing is, unlike hard drives, there is
absolutely no warning as to when they are going to die. "Modern"
hard drives will warn you when they think they are going to fail. I
have had that happen several times and have been able to make copies
(clones, actually) and not lose anything.

On Jul 14, 2008, at 5:00 AM, nikon-request@... wrote:

> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:08:39 -0500
> From: "Mel" <jhawk1000@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nikon] Photos r that last?
> To: "Nikon Mailing List" <nikon@...>
> Message-ID: <00a901c8e513$7a410540$0301a8c0@yourat5qgaac3z>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I do not know of any service to make negatives from digital. My
> wife owns a
> pro lab where some of her work starts with negatives, then scanned
> into
> digital files for the final enlargements on her Chromira printers and
> Kreonite photographic paper prints. She uses redundant storage
> devices (at
> least two hard drives with the same files) to try to keep the
> images for
> archival purposes. We archive our digital files for ourselves on home
> redundant hard drives. We also have, in the past, used CDs and
> DVDs but I
> find that they seem to corrupt over the years. Couple some
> corruption with
> new updated software that seems to forget the older formats and we
> no longer
> use CDs or DVDs.
>
> Mel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RIBNITZ Robert" <robert.ribnitz@...>
> To: <nikon@...>
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:48 AM
> Subject: [Nikon] Photos r that last?
>
>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> suppose I were to shoot phamily fotos for my children; would I not
>> have a
>> better time shooting them in analog? - Are there any services that
>> can
>> provide (35mm) negs of digital files?
>>
>> Just a thought about longevity of formats..
>>
>> Robert

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Re: D300

2008-07-14T11:02:40Z

I agree that the rule for purchases should be as you described. I am a pure
amateur carrying cameras for my wife but I love to shoot wildlife including
birds, elk, deer, moose, bear, etc and the DX really works better for me.
On the other hand, the full frame would work sometimes better for my wife
when she shoots models in her studio. We have a 12-24mm full frame Sigma
which would do well on a D700. The problem now is that the 5D Canon is a
heck of a bargain since all the rebates but----my wife used to be a Canon
shooter and will not go back because of the lens inventory we have now.
I would love to have a D300 and thought about replacing my D200 but that
nasty rule of justifying my purchase cropped up and cooled my anxiety for a
D300.

Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Schwartz" <camerarts@...>
> If I can do all this and spend $1000.less than a D3 ,for a new body,it's a
> no brainier. Keep in mind that Nikon has always reduced the prices of new
> product 12 to 18 months after a new product introduction. Canon does the
> same by offering long lasting rebates. You have to play the game, that is,
> if you want to save some $$ or Euros
> If you take a look at Canon's pricing,across their product range it looks
> to me as if this camera (D700) just may be quite the bargain!
> Steve Schwartz

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D300

2008-07-14T09:18:17Z

D300,
I started shooting digital with a D100 moving to a D1x-D2x and I have replaced my D2h with the D300. As soon as my business allows it, I will add a D700. I'm a pro, at least I and most of my clients think so, I can't afford to collect equipment.
The rule that my new purchases are bound to is: If the item(camera/computer/accessory) doesn't give me an advantage over my competition and doesn't pay for it's self, then I can't afford to own it.
Whch brings me to the D300.
As I signed the sales slip when I made the purchase, it was a painful moment, in my mind hearing my accountant screaming about spending the money.
Although after testing the camera, I was satisfied that I had done the right thing. The D300 has less noise, then any other Nikon camera I have owned. Anytime I'm shooting beyond 800 ISO, the color is cleaner,the tonality is superior with a wider range and I have better control of the camera's fine tuning. I believe the change in the sensor type has made a major difference.
The Canon shooters I know are angry,due to some major auto focus problems, that I'm not having with this unit.
So, why should "I Lust After" the new 700? I have seen what the full frame 14-24mm can do. It appears to be sharper than my 12-24mm with less flare.I shoot large groups often in tight places. I will be able use some of my older lenses.
If I can do all this and spend $1000.less than a D3 ,for a new body,it's a no brainier. Keep in mind that Nikon has always reduced the prices of new product 12 to 18 months after a new product introduction. Canon does the same by offering long lasting rebates. You have to play the game, that is, if you want to save some $$ or Euros
If you take a look at Canon's pricing,across their product range it looks to me as if this camera (D700) just may be quite the bargain!
Steve Schwartz
WWW.CAMERARTS.COM
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Re: Nikon Digest, Vol 36, Issue 4

2008-07-14T01:01:23Z

To Those Who Are Left:
I agree with Mel. My D200 is holding up nicely indeed. And it's getting to be like a wonderful not so old shoe or slipper.
For my needs it satisfies me in my confort zone very well, thank you, for the present.
Tom

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Re: Photos r that last?

2008-07-13T13:31:50Z

On Jul 13, 2008, at 11:45 , Don Righello wrote:

> Maybe you can assist me. I continue to receive email from this
> forum. I have
> made numerous attempts to unsubscribe from the account to no avail.
> I would
> like to reach the Webmaster and see if He/She can assist me. Do you
> know who
> to contact?

At the bottom of each message you will find this URL:
http://nikonusers.com/mailman/listinfo/nikon_nikonusers.com

Click that URL, and scroll WAY DOWN to the bottom of that page to
unsubscribe.

jerryCline
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